Aaron Bolinger and Michele Gossman

00:04 Hi, I'm Michele Gossman. I'm soon to be 64 years old. I'm located in Kalamazoo Michigan and I am delighted to join in this conversation with my one small step partner.

00:22 Who is my name is? Aaron Bolinger? I am 46 years old. My location is Akron. Indiana. Today's date is August 1st, and I am joined by my one small step partner. Michelle. Thank you.

00:43 Aaron should I reach you or your bio now.

00:54 I am a married dad. That has spent the last year focusing on my wife. That is fighting breast cancer. Every day. I wake up. I look at what God is doing in my life and the plan he has for me, besides trying to live my life. As God wants. I'm a husband, a dad to a 15 year old daughter and a ten-year-old son. When I'm not with family. I have worked as a firefighter for the last 28 years. I know we have more in common than we don't. It's important to me that we regain a way to communicate with each other.

01:37 Michele. Hello, if you're responding to this invitation, you may be dismayed as I am about the breakdown of civil discourse. In the u.s. Politics has always been a place of Spirited debate in disagreement with the tendency to demonize those with whom we disagree seems to be either caused. By are the result of Highly toxic polarizacion. I want to have a conversation, not a debate with people of any political stripe, who are also curious about how we met reweave the fabric of our community.

02:18 So, you guys spoke in your bios, a bit about why you wanted to come in to do one small step, but why don't you eat to talk a bit about how you define your political beliefs and where you think those stem from?

02:32 Go ahead, Michelle.

02:37 I think I prefer, I would Define my political beliefs, as probably.

02:44 Leftward leaning which is a change from where I started out. I'm someone that remembers crying when Richard Nixon was removed from office. So things have changed considerably for me over the long course of time. What was the other question that you asked?

03:07 Naomi.

03:10 M4u, so I guess that that change that's that's going on the change. For me. I think his come from basically being very active in church said, thanks and being a history major in college and being influenced by some very wonderful teachers, and social studies. And in political science, and those are probably the biggest influences.

03:44 How about for you Erin? I'll tell you I could look at it as

03:51 I would be classified by everyone else says, probably very conservative or very right-leaning. I hate, I hate right. I hate left, but I hate putting those titles on each other because that's where we start the division. As soon as we put a title on one or the other, then that automatically puts us into camps and in to me and it'll tell you Michelle. When I first read your bio, I'd like that. We have a ton in common. Just reading your bio and you say, your left-leaning, I can identify her be called right-leaning know. We haven't we have almost the exact same thing in common. And what we want here is that we realize there's a problem.

04:41 And then finding a way to to get back together and then we do probably have more in common than we have a part, but we've allowed politics and in those seeking power to put us into camps and how dare you if you talk to the other side. And and I think that's what led to so much of our discourse or the toxic political polarization as you call it is, there's people above us that are looking for their own power.

05:14 It's keeping us all apart.

05:22 Shall we respond to each other's short bios? Now?

05:28 Oh, yeah. Yes. Yes. Great head. First of all, I want to just extend my sympathy to you and Mike are to you for the situation that you're facing in your family with your wife's breast cancer. That's hard stuff.

05:49 Also, it occurs to me that your profession as a firefighter is pretty stressful stuff.

05:58 I would imagine it probably involves hours that are not real well-defined sometimes. And a lot of stressful situations, not to mention racing, a 15 year old daughter and a ten-year-old son, which are wonderful things to be doing and also can be have their own little additional stresses and challenges. So with all of those things. I have a question for you. What do you do to kind of distress under all these circumstances?

06:35 Yet, you're probably going to think I'm nuts. But even with all of those things that I do, I really don't have a whole lot of stress.

06:46 Like I said, in my bio and I have not always been this person and the last year has really taken the you don't have control.

07:00 Unn easy to talk about attending church.

07:05 We don't have control with a lot of situations that we encounter and that's where I fall back to my face every every day that I wake up. What purpose do you have for me? And allow me to see that purposes. I'm going through the day and and that's where. Are you even getting into conversations? Like, in your bio?

07:28 The interactions that I have and it kind of goes in tonight. I owe me some question their, how do you feel misunderstood by people?

07:39 Because when you ask them questions on their belief for their thoughts, all of a sudden attack.

07:47 And it's like no not trying to attack you. I just want to understand how you get to where you are at. If I look at everything through, hopefully what God wants in my life. That's a way for you to. Oh, that's where the foundation is at for him. And that's how he gets to where he's at. And that's what I try to do with other people that do. If you have this belief in this social issue. How did you get there?

08:17 And in one of the most interesting things is people that I went to school with as I want, how they're change.

08:28 From. Oh, I know how you grew up. I knew your background, but now you're here on these subjects. How did we get so far? Apart growing up with the same foundations in the same area in. And that's what's really got me interested. I guess in the political part of thing.

08:50 Is.

08:52 Was it through teachings? Was it through parties? What, how did we get to where we're at? Because we have to be able to identify.

09:03 Where did the fish the divisions have come from? If we want to try to start building those bridges again to get back together?

09:12 And that's really what it's all about work. We're not meant to be this way.

09:19 Were meant to be looking after each other and taking care of each other.

09:24 Not at each other's throats all the time.

09:29 The past year has has been a, a growing.

09:37 Year to say the least. I appreciate your thoughts.

09:43 It always uses you spoke your and I was thinking about how I remember a time that it doesn't seem that was all that long ago where we didn't necessarily need to wear our political hearts on our sleeves. You knew people from both parties, that you knew there were people from both parties and it really didn't matter that you could be on the same bowling team. You attended the same church, you could do all the rest of these things and it just was not that big of a deal, right? Yes. And granted for very long probably the last decade or so. And then one thing that got me paying attention and that's why I don't want to, I don't want to be known as a republican because I think both parties stink horribly and I don't think either one of them care about us at all. They just use us as as

10:40 Tools to get wherever they want to go. But it but I actually hate about or the 2008.

10:49 With Barack Obama. I was getting ready to vote for him because that open that change. Yes, we need something different. And then I actually called his

11:02 Campaign office to discuss my thoughts were or the things that I was most important about, and then the things they told me.

11:12 Was not the things that he was saying out there, and I'm like that, what's going on here? So not only him, but then I keep in contact with my legislators, whether it's stayed, or, or federal.

11:28 And they will send you their little copy sheet of their talking points. Okay, you're not paying attention to me either. And, and that's really kind of what led me here to this story for listening on a radio program, one day and, and the guy was talking about storycorps.

11:51 And it's like, okay, we're never going to find Solutions in the people we elect because we are an ignorant electric to begin with. And then we listen to that name or what. They're staying up there. We don't dig into what they're actually doing in the past.

12:10 And that's really what led me here. I I want to talk to people and I've tried to do it whether on the Facebook tell me where you're coming from.

12:21 But they don't want to because as soon as you say something that doesn't go along with what they believe all of a sudden now you hate them.

12:30 And it's like no, I want to understand how we both got to where we're at. Let's have this discussion and let's build bridges on things that are

12:42 So, you spoke of being

12:46 Kind of energized to reach out to politicians and try to make your voice. Heard. What? What led you to that place? Aaron?

12:59 You know, when you talk about a representative, what's their job there is to represent you.

13:07 And so, when I read that, we are supposed to have a interaction with them to tell him what we think and what will they should be doing. And especially when you look at holes in and, you know, I'm not going to get into all of the different things on it, whether it's raised her portion, this Saturday, but if you look at the polling of the American people, $70, 80% of the American people are on the same path within we watch our elected officials, take a pass. It's not even popular with the people. So that shows that they're not on board with us and my first

13:51 Interaction with that was my representative when they were talking about the Affordable Care Act and I called in and I said, hey, what are the stats on people that are for and against it? Because that's really cuz you should be those that are for or against it Whatever Gets the most, whether it is, what I want or not. You should vote on the will of the people and he goes, yeah, we don't keep track of that and I'm like, okay now you're lying to me.

14:21 Because I have a friend that she actually works on office of another representative and she's like, oh, of course, we keep those numbers. You're crazy, not to, because they're supposed to represent.

14:33 So, you know, now the dishonesty gets in there, so that's kind of what got me going. But it. But again, I'd lost faith in that process altogether because until the people realized one, what were founded on in the beliefs of those folks and Attila people decide to take their power back.

15:05 There's not a lot we can do, you know because that's that's are our system of government was set up for us. Not for a ruling class that we have right now of both the Arts and the bees.

15:19 English as you spoke. You you are you erase something that I have thought about often is what if the solution that we're looking for Is Us.

15:30 Because we are in the system that is government of the People by the people and for the people.

15:41 So I I hold that invitation Within Myself. What does that mean? For us, for myself in participating in the government? Because there does seem to be a certain lack of responsiveness. Does that call us to be more involved?

15:59 Oh, most definitely most definitely and in what ways. And then, when we get involved we have to watch.

16:10 You know how we do those things and then we're not only fighting against elected folks, but also a media on both side, whether it's a Nardi media that have a

16:29 They're, they're looking to accomplish something and it, you can look and you'll have a protest in some place doesn't matter, whether it's at where the odds on the National Monument or at the the city or the state building in, Michigan.

16:46 You'll have one group come in and it'll be a mess and O hate greatest thing in the world to have another play, another group come in and completely peaceful or violent. They were

17:01 And then, what's amazing to me is how people

17:07 Whether it's elected officials, whether it's media-types, they think we're all dumb that we can't see these things and I will say there's some on the extreme, right? And left that. Yes, they're not going to say it. They get fed what they do every day and they don't even try to read research or look to find out what's going on. And down here, one of these questions here. Is there anything that troubles you about the way? People who share your beliefs communicate them to others? Yes, or a bully.

17:45 I am I I try to

17:50 Talk peacefully to everyone. I don't call them bad names or or put them down within you watch whether you're in the left camp for the right Camp, the people that use the foul language and just be little and the rate people. How are you supposed to build Bridges and win? Just have a discussion to see

18:22 Again, we are not that far apart when we start talking and I'll go back to your bio. You can say your left-leaning, but the bio that I read right here. I consider that a conservative person.

18:37 Not that far off. Let's get rid of the titles. Let's talk about what we have in, we're also not is human beings. We don't just have one dimension. So that's why that kind of a question is kind of a difficult one to answer because I know depends on what the issue might be too. But what you were saying was reminded me, you spoke of Facebook. Can I remember there was a meme one time that had a Native American on it and he said, what if they remembered that the left wing? And the right-wing are part of the same bird.

19:14 Yeah, and you know, so you being a history person? Okay, I sent and I look at people put so much faith in government. Okay, who has been one of the who has committed the most atrocities across our history?

19:35 Or not just our history but world history in general. It's the government. And in talking about him to hit. Okay, that will be Wounded Knee.

19:46 What what happens there, you know who did that? It wasn't a group of conservatives or right-wing people to come out. It was a government that did that and Dad. I guess I'll ask you as a history person.

20:06 Are we doing enough to teach actual history?

20:11 So everybody knows the dangers of government propaganda to split people.

20:21 And divide and use them against each other.

20:26 You know, it is, is that going on? Because I'll tell you about me personally, my trying to understand history US History over the last 10 years. I wasn't taught near what I needed to know to be a good citizen.

20:44 So,

20:47 I'm not sure. It's the well, as a person who's very interested in history. I think it's very important that we do history, but not, everyone would agree with me. But I do think we lack a certain amount of civic education and I think that the opportunity to

21:07 Really teach people how to be engaged citizens is really important. I think many of us in this country of cutting kind of gotten to be consumers instead of participants in a democracy. And if you go back before democracy, I mean, I still think that democracy is one of the greatest hits the greatest governmental system that's ever been established because it allowed people to be involved in their own Fates more or less. The other Alternatives were going to dictatorships or autocracies or basically, you know, the rule of the king. This is this is a big Improvement it back to what it supposed to do in talking about that.

21:56 And I'm just thinking from a, a religious background and then you think like the book of Kings.

22:05 And I watch people howling for all, they are with everything that goes on with, like, Prince, William and Harry, and all of those folks.

22:15 Is that?

22:18 Happen to have a king.

22:22 Or a dictator.

22:26 Lead your life.

22:29 More ingrained than being able to be a free person and taking care of yourself.

22:37 Because so many and I guess I'll go back to the government. People seeking government to take care of them. Remember Hurricane Katrina. And in what went on there Will at the same time in the northern part of the United States. I can't remember if it was The Dakotas, they had some pretty significant flooding going on up there and at both ends of the spectrum. He had the folks up north going. We don't want government, leave us alone, will take care of ourselves and our people. And then down in Louisiana. You had no, come get us. Take care of us and do all of our basic needs. And you can see we never heard anything about up north. They were doing what they do, but you looked at all of this strife and the misery everybody had because they were waiting on government to fix their problem.

23:35 Edna. I'm not sure about if they're in Kalamazoo, but I know down here Akron. We have a large Amish community and a couple years ago, a significant tornado went through our area, went through the Amish territory to the west of our house in my mother-in-law's house. And everybody else is at went through. So as we were out there, trying to get two people love the class structures, and this was right in the evening.

24:10 Got there and and helped out as we could. But the next day that Amish community, is it, they were all together?

24:20 All of the damaged structures that tore down, put it in a pile and they were burning. And by that first day.

24:28 They had one of the biggest Barnes in the area, reframed ready to put siding on it. The next day. They weren't sitting around waiting on anybody, to help they got together as a community.

24:42 And worked to re-establish their lives. And and is that something that we have?

24:52 Allowed government to get too far into what we do and taken away our community and built more of these rival games. If you want to call him, you know, the ours in the deese it is that part of our our Strife that we

25:10 I like that story that you shared about the Amish.

25:14 And I'd like to share another story. This one.

25:19 From the days of Abraham Lincoln when he was a young man. He tried to set up his legal practice in a small town on the sagamon river. And I can't remember what the name of the town was. But the tower was prone. The river at that point was prone to silting over. So he and a whole number of other young. Ambitious people were said, you know, trying to start this town and get things going and working their tails off to do it. But no one person or no, one, small group of people and had enough resources to keep the River from silting over in the town, eventually died off. And everyone had to move someplace else. And it was at that point, when Lincoln looked and saw that the role of government is to band people together for the common good.

26:15 And to be able to do that because you know, nobody has the resources to do some of these things that we need to do. That was a major infrastructure project and no one Farmers going to be exactly, right.

26:32 And in and I like the way you put that is it's the band us together to accomplish something, but it's not to rely on them to take care of our every need.

26:42 I guess I would look at it that way.

26:46 I guess here's a question for you. I I like the I want to have a conversation, not debates. Tell me the difference between the two conversation, samim involves deep listening to just for the purposes of being present and try to understand in a debate, you're trying to score points and you're trying to actually change someone else's opinion. So you're trying to twist them to your to your way of thinking.

27:23 Conversations are much, much more prone to conversations, direct statements.

27:38 Yes, as long as they're open and honest questions for the purposes of trying to really understand and not judge. I'll give you an example of someone was what sharing with me and a and a class that I took an example of a question. That would not be an open and honest question. And that some have you ever considered getting professional help for that. That's not an open and honest question where you're trying to get more information or trying to tell them suddenly that you think that wacko. Does that help it? It does. And and that's so do you think?

28:22 Most people understand the difference.

28:27 When you're trying to have just an an open discussion.

28:32 Just find out where people are coming from and when it starts to.

28:41 Make them possibly.

28:46 Rethink where they're coming from.

28:50 That might scare them into will. This is a debate and I don't want to do this and I don't want to quit in and I am one. I question everything.

29:01 Because if we don't, we, we can get led into some pretty bad things in, Ennis, just that really struck me when I read that. And then I really started to think about. Do I have a conversation the correct way to be able to understand where people's, because I do. I ask a lot of questions on. Oh, hey, I think this great. Why do you think that

29:30 Baby, I'm not looking at it the right way. And again, I tried to take everything from a Biblical Foundation which kind of gives people in the defensive right off of the back of the OU, go by those standards. I don't have anything to do with that cuz that's make believe so that's why I was kind of wondering about that. That's up.

29:54 Something to really think about.

29:56 1.

29:59 I did some mediator training at one point in my life. And one of the things that we were encouraged to do, is always tell people. They have a safety valve in a discussion that if you get to a point where it starts to feel Pinchy.

30:18 All one needs to say is ouch and a, ouch has an invitation to pause and take a deep breath and strangely enough, a deep breath physiologically, slows down your heart rate. It creates space for that tension, that you feel is starts to rise to kind of settle out. So there are ways to be able to keep a conversation. Keep it civil conversation.

30:47 Yep.

30:49 Where do you find conversations going sideways?

30:55 Again, I'm one that questions everything it just for understanding.

31:03 And,

31:06 When I question,

31:12 Things that again, I'll look at them biblically.

31:18 And say, okay. That's what you think. But if I look at it this way.

31:25 That's not right.

31:27 And if that's where I find things that start to go sideways. As soon as you put in any reference to biblical, understanding something that's where things really seem to go sideways and

31:44 And that doesn't matter whether it's socially, whether it's in government, you know, just trying to have a, a discussion of the values that our Founders had when they found in our nation.

31:58 And look at this, their biblical beliefs and in what I'm then people go into other 80s sturdiest and it's like to look at what they studied. They probably studied even the ones that were devious as they were and have that they probably study the Bible more than most of our modern-day preachers to

32:24 So that's where I usually see a conversation. Going sideways is when you put that foundation in there. That's very hard to break apart.

32:37 You talk about being left-leaning.

32:44 But then you also put Church in with that.

32:51 Talk.

32:55 How do?

32:57 I would say, left-leaning friends. How do they interpret your beliefs as far as from a religious background? Because that's where I see a lot of that. As soon as I start talking about the Bible Christ, think that nature? That's where things go off the rails with folks that are in. Again. I hate to use left-leaning. I hate putting any type of terms on people, you know, you can't even have a discussion because you have to put all of your friends in again, right, left or a way. I have Hispanic friends and I have black friends know, why can't it just be my friend, you know, what's wrong with that? Why can they just not be the friend that I hang out with? Why does everybody have to have a label?

33:51 Sometimes.

33:56 I have found it helpful to practice something that was taught by Saint Francis of Assisi. Who said that preach the gospel at all time. And only if necessary use words.

34:14 So,

34:15 In terms of religiosity and how that may play into conversations with anyone, that knows me, well, will know that I've been a member of a church for

34:27 Practically my whole life. I take it very seriously.

34:32 But I don't try to proselytize.

34:40 But it, I guess in that.

34:45 Are we not supposed to share the word?

34:50 Do you open up that that place for the Holy Spirit to maybe work in?

34:59 But what are you think? I'm most definitely, most definitely. I agree with you, 100%. All of my actions should show. I shouldn't have to tell anybody but then there are also those that you don't have the ability to be around to see things and and they might be, oh, he's just a good person.

35:22 Where does the where does being a good person come from? Because I get you say that you've been in church, all your life. I have it for a for a good part of life. I wasn't the best. And when it goes to a testimony, a shining example of one hundred percent hands down and in doing that, I didn't have people to share that. With me. I had a grandma that took me to church whenever she come up to visit, but I never had anybody dig down in with me to really head that direction.

36:07 And in that's the the most exciting thing for me is being able to share it and then I and I watch and I listen to so many people show their these rules and you don't have any fun.

36:21 And it's like, actually stand.

36:27 And it goes back to that. Hey, why don't you have any stress or what you do for stress?

36:34 I don't know what that is anymore. Due to him.

36:39 And in the sacrifice and its trying to share that with folks that ghost.

36:47 Hey, there is actually more and where you think it's restrictive. It's actually free. It's it's Freedom that you don't even begin to understand.

36:59 So I think that's why it's important to me to, to talk about it and a lot of time having discussion. I'm not having a discussion with that person to win them over. I'm having a discussion for other people to listen to just start the question.

37:16 Ask what is there to do this? That's it again being somebody that questions. Everything. I want everybody to question question. Why?

37:29 Why is why is, you know, I was just looking at the chat and they'll be exposed to the question about covid in there. And it seems like a very timely question with this Alta variant. Now, beginning to be pretty prevalent. The United States national politics are local politics.

37:56 Somebody working an emergency services working in healthcare and I'll leave it take it back to my wife because that's what really helped shape. My covid Views. I will say, when she was diagnosed with cancer and started going through chemo. She could not go back to a teacher. She couldn't go back to the classroom because they said you get covid-19.

38:27 Okay, that's pretty serious talk.

38:31 When she was in her third treatment, I believe 3rd or 4th chemo treatment. And anybody that in Chemo, when they spike a fever of over 100, it's a life-threatening emergency. So, she ran a fever today. Guess what? Sweetie. We're going to take you to the ER and she's like, no, this is no big deal. So this is what the doctor says load up. We're going to the ER, we got to the ER and they did blood work on her. And you know, again a testament to the love of God, the doctor comes out and says your blood is better than most healthy people. We don't even realize you have cancer or that you just had a cable tree.

39:13 You know, praise be to him so they're like you got oh man, they told us that if you get covid you're going to die.

39:22 Stuff like what do we do to? She stay here? They're like, no the hospitals. The worst place that you could be having cancer because of the infection in and all the disease. They said go home. She come home. She slept for eight days and woke up, like nothing. I got calls from Health Department saying,

39:45 You need to lock her away. You need to quarantine her and stay away and it's like, yeah, I kind of made this commitment. She's my wife and ain't happen. I'm going to be at her side and then flip to take care of her. And I slept beside her, the entire time gave her a kiss every day. Like, I always do and lo and behold, I never got it.

40:13 Is it a real life bad thing? Yes, it is. We have had a friend, her father passed away. He was a double lung transplant recipient. He passed away. We have another friend that

40:29 She was in the hospital for quite a while. It's very serious.

40:33 But there are far other diseases out there that I encounter a lot that I am more afraid of. I do not believe in again. I will take it to both parties. They're not being honest with us.

40:51 And they are using it to again separate us on the Baxters, the anti-vaxxers, the people that wear masks, the people that don't wear masks.

41:02 It's just something else to separate us. The little community that I live in. You see people wearing masks for, like, the first three or four weeks after that. Nobody in my community was wearing a mask, and we had no problems at all. And that's what I saw it. I worked on plans with the hospital's to, if they could overrun with covid patients. We never got over ran, never even had to go into a contingency, type plan to work on things. But again, if if you want to wear a mask and do those things, great, if you don't great, that's that's the wonderful place about where we live.

41:49 We have the freedom to choose our self and then we don't need somebody over us telling us what to do. Do you want to answer that question and kind of share your views? Just so we can have that back and forth. Sure sure. I don't know about.

42:13 On the national politics level, I think our initial response to this whole thing was somewhat chaotic.

42:23 And I am someone that now with the variance starting to spike again. I have broken out my mass which I had gladly put away for a period of time and I now use them when I go into public spaces and why do I do that? Because I have pregnant daughter and I have a 3 year old granddaughter and I just sooo not drag anything to them. So what I do, I mean I'm going back Sunday. I have been fully vaccinated but it's try to protect them and others like them. So it's kind of it. Been barn-raising Philosophy for we all pitch in together for the common good, from my perspective. That's the way that I'm looking at that. I gets funny looks when I walk that walk into Menards the other day and got some, real funny, looks an occasional commenting, all that sort of thing. And I just say, well, you know,

43:15 This is what I do. It is because it's a matter of probably try to be mindful of care for others at this point.

43:29 Nope, and in a nice I see that and and then you know it I am a big follow the Science Guy and where they say the vaccinated people are carrying the same viral load is the unvaccinated person. And then I look at the the research that come out of India that we're making all of our decisions on right now. As far as this Delta variance and in the study was rejected, even if you know, I'm CDC website. It was rejected by a that it was a vaccine that's nothing like that. We're using here and you know, again just tell us the truth.

44:11 Quit using it. Do what's best for us? Not what's best for your party or what you or grandiose plan is for the rest of us and if they want to wear masks great. I understand that. I haven't been vaccinated but my mom and dad both in their seventies. Have they need it there in that category. I'm a 46 year-old person with not a lot of health issues. I'm not in that category of being concerned about it in and again,

44:47 My experiences. And that's what I look at so much. And when I talk to other folks is my experiences. Tell me a different story what it is, so

45:04 The respond to Michelle. Triple ain't about, you know, she is wearing a mask to protect those around her. Do you have thoughts about that? I'm sorry, you know what, again, her god-given right to do whatever she wants. I don't think that her at all.

45:24 Great, you do what you feel is best in your heart. And and I'm going to support you. It kind of goes back to maybe speech or or whatever. We all have the right to do those things. Just because it's not something that I ate, and I'm not going to say that I agree. Don't agree with because I do anybody that gets it, and I'm actually part of the Hoosier homebound Hoosiers. I go out and give the vaccinations people that want it. Super, I think, that's great. We need to get out there and help those that want to do it. If you want to wear Mass great, if you don't great.

46:07 Be cognizant of those may feel uneasy around you if you're up non mask-wearing person and they are, you know, to be cognizant of their feet. So,

46:24 We only have a couple of minutes and that went by really quickly, probably, but if she'll eat some of your expectations and some of your thoughts.

46:36 Expectations and thoughts of what I I don't have expectations, but I do have a deep appreciation. So I want to share that with Aaron. Thank you for, for being present, and being open and honest. And I have really enjoyed our conversation.

46:59 Yeah, I honestly, I could sit here for another three hours. I appreciate your your openness and in the questions that you're asking. If I have enjoyed it in just looking at at

47:16 Who we are looking at the BIOS, again, even if we could put labels on ourselves. I think if we were living beside each other, would probably be talking across the fence. Why it a bit? And not have a lot of disagreements, even if we attach a label to ourself, and that's what it's all about. Just stopping and listening for a little bit ago. Yeah. Yeah. We're, we're pretty close to being the same people with. We have the same desires. We just met you in a different way of getting there.

47:56 Do you agree with Erin on that point? Michelle?

47:59 I think that in our common Humanity, there is much that we share, I think we're wired for connection. I think that we are social beings. That's one of the wonderful things that differentiates us from a lot of other primates. We coordinate things with one. Another, you won't see two monkeys getting together to carry a board.

48:28 It is a one of the wonderful things about being human. Unfortunately. Another thing about being human is we sometimes have difficulty trying to negotiate between ourselves, and we have much learning to do and I take conversations like this really help in that learning to be able to see someone in their humanness instead of in the labels that have been assigned or in some kind of

49:04 Attempted to put people at odds with one another.

49:09 Exactly. Could not agree more.

49:13 It is time to ramp up. I just that's too bad.

49:20 Can't believe 50 minutes is one by already.

49:25 Thank you, both.