Allie Saxon and Sheereen Brown

00:05 My name is Sharon Brown. I'm 30 years old. Today is Tuesday, February 18th, 2020. I'm at storycorps Atlanta and I'm interviewing my Aunt Sally Francis Saxon.

00:23 My name is Ali Francis Saxon.

00:28 90 years old today is Tuesday.

00:33 February 18th 2020

00:42 I MO

00:45 And you say that you're with Shireen I with my beautiful great-niece actually Sarah Brown.

01:02 We can go to question.

01:04 So Nene, that's what I call you today. We're going to talk about your time at Emory University and you were one of the first two black students to attend an matriculate through Emory University. So I first want to ask how did you get to become a student at Emory?

01:29 My first knowledge that Emory University was interested in admitting black students.

01:39 I would send.

01:44 1961 I'm sure that might be right. I think that is correct. A colleague of mine told me that.

01:58 The Southern Regional Council was interested.

02:04 And

02:06 Students especially with a major in nursing with a baccalaureate degree

02:15 They were trying at this time to recruit black students for Emory University. This was a Southern Regional Council a wonderful woman named Miss. Tilly was the president.

02:35 The Southern Regional Council and she was a very good friend Church memo with Dr. Ada Ford who was at that time the dean of the School of Nursing.

02:53 This colleague that referring to that inform me about the concerns and the recruitment of individuals was also a nurse.

03:11 So she and I are the Smurfs and colleague asked me if I would be interested in attending a meeting at the council's office and saw the two of us went to a meeting and asked that was the first introduction to the

03:33 2 hour recruitment

03:37 We had a very very good meeting with Dr. Ada Ford was slipped. It was such a wonderful person so friendly and also miss Tillie Miss. Tilly all you could see that these 42 Varick Christian women. They were actually members of the Methodist Church. So obvious

04:08 Chili and

04:11 Talk to Ada Ford encouraged us to submit applications after they met the two of us in person at that time. I was working at

04:27 Call The Vocational School in a practical nursing program and I had students at Grady hospital for their practical and my colleagues that I'm referring to. She was an instructor at graded in the Anderson department. So after we submitted the applications to Emory University and got our transcripts submitted.

05:04 Actually, we had a couple of deficiencies from our school. We were both graduates with a baccalaureate degree in nursing from an outstanding institution Tuskegee Institute, which is located at, Tuskegee, Alabama.

05:29 So we had two subjects that we needed some more credit and that part of our program one was in biology and the other one was in chemistry.

05:47 So missed with chili

05:51 It was such a wonderful woman. She went to Morehouse College talk to dr. Mays. She had us Wilson and I she told dr. Mase what the situation was that we were going to be enrolled in Emory if we could make up these deficiencies in our transcript.

06:23 Sowal house College being all male School, of course, we couldn't go to war house. But he does chili and getting us at made it to Clark Atlanta University. And also tomorrow is Brown College. In fact, the chemistry course was at College both of these in all three of these institution of four Realms of doctor about all located in, Atlanta, Georgia.

07:08 When you go to private schools like that, they are not like public schools. That's always a financial part of it.

07:20 So this chili?

07:24 Pay hour to insurance through iMessage a phone that she was in charge of at the Southern Regional Council.

07:37 We went to Clark for chemistry and

07:44 Morris Brown College for biology. So we use both institutions. We were going to every school in Atlanta to get admitted to every University. So, of course, we should 6 successfully completed both of chemistry and biology and

08:13 It just worked out so well because our class that started the class at Emory University that we were to be a member of face started in September of it must have been 61 1961.

08:38 And we were ready in January of 62 that I may or may not have.

08:50 Quite right, but that's the way I remember it at the moment. So they will have three three what's ahead of us? And we join them in January?

09:07 And the first day

09:10 How campus are we travel together?

09:17 That was nothing no disruption of kappas life was no protesting. No, edisi, and this is a big contrast.

09:33 To the situation that we had all over the south at this time and especially down at the University of Georgia. And the way those two students were treated. It was just all together different when we went to the nurse and building are they greeted us? So so very friendly Wong. I just want just marvellous people Administration I must

10:07 I always think about this at 7 really prepared.

10:14 The Fast and Furious students, I guess neighbors and everybody for this integration of Emory University. It was just like we went to Clark spell or any other school are they just accepted us? We I do not have any saying that I can save where's this happened to me? And they did meet this way. We were treated just like we should have isn't your heated at but everybody was seems so sincere very very friendly.

11:03 So were there any professors or staff members aside from you'll miss Tilly and dr. Ford helping you get into the school where there any other people who work for Emory that stood out to you that you remember fondly or or anything like that during your time?

11:27 Shereen I just loved before so

11:36 She just stands out above everyone I do wish you could have met her. She was just such a marvellous sincere. It's a beautiful person doctor for I've been thinking about not that the other members we had a marvelous. We had a really nice classmate. We had picnics we had parted we had all the way we were just accepted lunch, you know, you were just a part of the conversation at lunch with others. It was just just like I would have lunch with you but such a beautiful experience.

12:32 Was there anything difficult about your time at Emory? I know you said everyone was really nice. But Emery the tough University was where there any classes that were really hard and subjects that you found difficult getting your Nursing degree mention one thing.

12:56 Is a high school I had lots of math.

13:02 Lots of math courses and also in college I had a math courses.

13:13 So we had a class cost statistics.

13:20 And

13:23 At first I just what was not get it.

13:29 And I said that I know I'm good and mad at fact math was just one subject by Dylan love algebra geometry. I had a trigger. I have all of those and so

13:49 I told a friend about it early on in the class.

13:55 And he told me this was some of the best advice that I had my whole time at Emory.

14:06 He was a friend.

14:10 Actually, I thought he might have been a principal at this time. I'm not sure what he was either teacher or principal, but he had a friend over it at the Atlanta University.

14:25 And this doctor

14:29 Mathematician was his good friend, and he called called here.

14:37 And ask him what he see us. My colleague was also having a difficult it too. So we went to his apartment at that time Atlanta University Falcons and lived on in Spanish. I guess they still do that at colleges in in special housing. And so

15:04 It just in one session.

15:10 He got me on the right track.

15:15 I mean we were not it with him.

15:21 30 minutes it might have been shorter than that.

15:26 And he just made it so clear Howe statistics work when you work in a problem.

15:36 And I had it I got it. I felt so good.

15:43 So

15:44 Quit

15:46 At the end of the course.

15:49 The professor at Emory University gave us one problem.

15:58 This one problems the answer covered the Blue Book. You may not know. What a blue book is at that time when you took a final exam you had a special type of riding with tiara.

16:15 So I guess so you wouldn't be bringing in a a cheap seed or what so

16:23 I knocked the straight out the box that probably took up the whole Blue Book. It was that long. It was very low, but you had to know how to go from one step to the next step to the next now. Okay, and unfortunately my friend she did she had to retake take the car, but I was so thankful that

16:58 I made the contact with somebody who could give me some help. That was the only kind of academic problem. I had and and every but I mean I did that in the bud I got right on cuz I knew I was a good med student and if I understand that the fundamentals the basics of horseshoe what you're asking of what you want and I can do so I could usually work it out at that time. That's I think that a really good lesson cuz sometimes people don't want to ask for help when they're having trouble or when they're struggling but I learned that early on in college to that. If I don't know how to do something. I've got to find somebody who can help me figure it out. Absolutely and that's why I'm not shy about asking for help right now and always

17:58 Is giving sake

18:07 So what did it feel like on graduation day when you've been at Emory this whole time you work you've done the statistics class. You've done all the other hard courses what did graduation day feel like to you? It was just wonderful what happened. Actually it was what the program was one full year uniform quarter Emory at that time was on the quarter system. They may or may not be on that now, but she we started January Soul December will finish but actually I will graduation came.

18:52 Every participate it in the it was out those service a beautiful ceremony. It was like June. I think we went to school longer than people but was it June and it was outside on the lawn and at that time all schools participated and if it was a really nice day Mama and Daddy tell another

19:33 Good friend of Iowa's attended the ceremony and

19:40 It looked it was a really nice really nice. I know Big Mama proud of you. I do not remember the speakers.

19:57 Okay, that's okay. So your legacy inspired me to get my graduate degree from Emory. I applied to Emory for undergrad and I wrote about you during my my college application. I ended up going to Georgia Tech but now I'm at Emory and the business school getting my MBA you inspired me to do that. And so I was wondering did you think about the other black students that you would Inspire that would be able to matriculate through Emery when you made the decision to go?

20:37 Well, I'm glad it's such an open enrollment and and all over the country mostly all over the country anyway.

20:52 I will be back to this shariq. The reason I think we'd had no difficulty.

21:02 As students was because we were a little more mature than a child coming out of high school going to college. We were adults. We will work in adults when we were admitted to Emory University. So we had more maturity and better insight into understand that after our admission the undergrads probably experience some other problems.

21:42 But as far as I need to say this to as adults, we were not

21:50 Dependent on Emery for our social interaction.

21:57 Actually, it was you know our business arrangement in many ways because

22:08 Even though we had picnics parties and things like that that's difficult for then an undergraduate who's living on campus and won't friends here friends. They are I'm not talking about people, you know acquaintances. I've done my real friends here. They're what not. That's a difficult different kind of situation a very different kind of situation.

22:39 Go back to what you said. You got to tell me that question. Just want to know if you if when you decided to go to Emory. You know, I know you are a master-student, but did you think about the other black students that would be able to matriculate through the school because you were one of the first that ever cross your mind.

23:02 Well, actually we would think the next steps would be the others and I was just hoping that they would have that kind of experience. But that's why I wanted to point up that I had in graduate school is so much different. Are they being an undergrad? So

23:30 I don't think they experience it in a bad things are things that will hurtful and I hope not but you always hear of incidents and at what not, but actually when I tell people who had incidents but there are reasons for that and that's the reason I kind of party that was we will make sure we went home every night. That's that's another thing to we didn't depend on camera forever to meet all of our needs cuz when you are and I know, you know this in graduate school you kind of direct the things you are doing and how you doing and how you use your resources. So

24:29 Imagine that future students

24:35 Even though I did realize it would be different from my experience.

24:42 I would hope that they had a similar experience. I will always wish the best for anyone like that.

24:53 What did you do after you finish your degree at Emory?

24:59 Oh, I had so many job.

25:04 I need a job offer from all kinds of institution, but actually my first job out of every University was

25:22 Winston-Salem State College in the nursing program

25:27 If I had met the

25:31 I think I had met Daddy. This is difficult to actually remember had I met the d. A minute later. But anyway after I got the offer for the job I had to go to campus and be the president with the Salem State college is in Winston-Salem, North Carolina.

26:00 And so what I meant the president later, but he thought I was too young to Hollister. I really wasn't that to you. But he kind of thought that not that that would make them not hire me but he that was his observation. So that was my first job at Winston-Salem State College.

26:32 And Anna

26:34 North Carolina and you taught nursing at or a specific type of adult nursing affect I talk

26:44 Mother baby care

26:47 To the students at the thing about the program there.

26:52 Old guy that I remember how I met the dean Ashley. Okay in nursing many places do not have enough and a variety of patients.

27:09 But students to get a real good experience. So those students came to Grady hospital is Grady Hospital Atlanta. Georgia has a an example of every kind of pay should you so

27:26 The dean came down to make an arrangement.

27:32 Bought her students to come from, North Carolina to Atlanta.

27:41 And that that was at the time I I first met with the dean cuz I think I've been her when she came here and I imagine she would I but I had already

27:56 I think I had already finished Emory University. I must have cuz that's what but I went to North Carolina after that.

28:07 But anyway, she offered the job and I accept that this.

28:16 I think I stayed there for three years. And what happened? I stay with us Winston-Salem for 3 years, but what happened?

28:28 Sometime of the agreement between the administrators of water institution with the other well come to an end and then they transfer out so I actually program was going to Nashville.

28:49 Tennessee at Meharry that's where the maternity patients returned and child health up just going to be conducted and I had an option to go there. I would have had to move from Atlanta to Nashville, and I did not want to go and I didn't go.

29:25 For your great great great nieces and nephews listening to this years from now. Is there any wisdom that you'd want to pass on to them?

29:39 Well

29:41 I hope I'll be able to tell her.

29:46 But

29:48 I think if you are real really person get along with people. You always want to get along with people and I hope they'll be courageous and you don't always know how things are going to work out cuz I actually I didn't have the money to pay Morris Brown clock for those courses. I need it. But here I was stepping out like I I could take it but there's always some help it's just always some nice people around that would do something good for you good for others, and I hope they do good deeds for other people. Think about other people.

30:42 An

30:46 When I was going going to Sunday school church and being part of different organization, we always wanted to. I made it in certain organization. We would have an objective of trying to do a good deed at least once a week think about somebody else and do something good for their that's really good advice about other people often enough these days when you do that,

31:28 In my life

31:31 What I took one step and I didn't know exactly where the help was coming from. But I've had some really really wonderful friends some really good. People will always remember

31:51 The date not today where the dean to but in this situation. This was at the VA hospital in Tuskegee.

32:02 This person was the assistant.

32:08 Chief nurse

32:11 And when I was doing my baccalaureate.

32:17 Work

32:20 I don't know if you understand the VA system when?

32:27 Put you a staff member a new personal. But anyway, we had like a rotating type of a assignment. So you will be assigned for a certain time at daytime evening night. Whatever. She learned that I was taking classes over at Tuskegee Institute.

32:50 And a position came up.

32:57 And this was a very very wonderful position. It was in surgery.

33:05 And it was a shift like the afternoon shift.

33:11 And that meant I could go to school and she looked out for me. I'm just telling you the truth. She looked out for me. I got that position. And if that didn't help me through school.

33:31 So I just had some wonderful people in my life and what I think about them.

33:37 I hope I did something for this deal.

33:44 But

33:47 In my heart. I always appreciate it.

33:52 Every every bit of help and I had lots of lots of help don't my last question Nene is if this was our very last conversation

34:08 Is there anything you'd want to say to me?

34:12 Grocery

34:15 I hope this is not the same as always.

34:25 Are you you are making such a wonderful?

34:31 You making so many wonderful steps to it a Wonderful Life.

34:38 And you do the same if you have a really kind-hearted you have other people to me the most important thing. I don't think it's up. I know really I've had a really good job, but I have never really just say well, I want all this money all of that money.

35:09 I think you made some wonderful strides toward a real Wonderful Life.

35:21 Just continue to be a real good person. Think about other people and just told

35:31 Don't worry about the

35:34 Well, whatever don't don't worry about these things will work out good to me will always overcome it it kind of value going through.

35:53 Just be a sweet person like you all know.

35:58 Thank you Ali Francis. I love you. I love you. I love you. I love you.

36:08 Is

36:11 Did we talk LOL?