Amy Sabath and Stephanie Nunley

Recorded August 10, 2020 Archived August 10, 2020 48:45 minutes
0:00 / 0:00
Id: hub000202


One Small Step conversation partners Amy Sabath (49) and Stephanie Nunley (36) talk about their families, the topic of abortion and their work in higher ed.

Subject Log / Time Code

AS has a 4 year old daughter, and she became a mom later in life. SN talks about growing up low income and graduating during a recession.
SN talks about her personal political values, being more fiscally conservative and more liberal on social issues. AS says pro-life is so important to her because of her faith.
SN talks about her journey to becoming atheist.
AS tells the story of how she got into politics, she and her friend thought the young republicans meeting would be a great way to meet men.
SN talks about their shared experience being in higher ed and why it's great to have these conversations.
AS and SN talk about how social media is ripe with disinformation. They also discuss bias in the media.


  • Amy Sabath
  • Stephanie Nunley

Venue / Recording Kit



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00:00 Okay, so I guess I'm going first hear. My name is Amy Sabbath. I am 49 years old today is August 10th of 2020. I am right now in my home working from home in Painesville Township in Lake County my partner today Stephanie Nunley and she's my one small step partner.

00:22 Okay, cool. I am Stephanie Nunley. I am 36 years old today's date is August 10th 2020 and I am located in downtown Cleveland and my home apartment and my partner is Amy Sabbath and she is my one small step partner.

00:40 How would you sum up your life story in 3 minutes or less?

00:45 Interesting question. Okay, so summing up my life story in 3 minutes or less but my life has been very full. I think always exciting and always takes a different turn. So, you know grew up in your typical middle-class family and thought I would you be a teacher and follow in my mom's footsteps of things and decided to do my own thing and ended up working in politics, which is something I never dreamed of doing but from there. It's just taking me different direction after different direction. I have a four-year-old daughter so I didn't have my child. So I was 45 years old. So I did a lot of exciting things in my life, you know until I had my child and now we're doing a whole bunch of exciting things together. So I think my life story has been really fun and adventurous but very different and lots of twists insurance.

01:41 That's probably not quite 3 minutes, but that's basically my story.

01:47 Stout Stephanie, I have to ask how would you sum up your life story in 3 minutes or less doing all the right things according to what they are the right thing pretty much at all the wrong times. I grew up in a lower income household not super poor, but we weren't middle lower income household Imma have a sister and it was just my mom my sister and my dad and you know, my parents got divorced when I was in my room and we moved a little bit but when High School from there went to college graduate college and then you know after that couldn't find a job and so looks around went back to college while getting an associate's degree and I started working at csuf.

02:47 Add an additional degree because why not and then I've been pretty much just working in higher education ever since I traveled a little bit when I was younger and now I am, you know settle down and trying to look at what's the next step in life not married no kids, but it would bikes it potentially do all of those things Monday.

03:13 That's great why I have to tell you I'm not married, but I did a kid and let you know it was fun to wait until 45 to have my kid. I did lots of traveling lots of fun stuff when I was younger and I feel like now I'm ready to settle down and have my my family and you know, that's great. I'm happy that I did it that way. So I always tell people don't worry. If you don't have your kids so later, it's great that way I'm 36 now and so like the clock is the Perpetual clock is ticking as they say and I feel like there's so much pressure for me to be like, oh crap. I need to get a dude settle down like right now today and you have a baby and start doing this like my eggs are going to expire

04:00 Encouraging for me to hear as it as a younger dog all the time while I'm not I mean, it's okay. It's okay to wait and I I I don't say that just because that's what I did but that's what I truly believe and I see people who rush it and they regret it so good for you. Okay, so I have a question. So when your own words, can you describe your personal political values? And what are what are the most important issues for you personally? Okay. So am I own words my personal political values. I think that I would consider myself a much more moderate person than most personally. I

04:50 I feel like I'm more fiscally conservative on certain issues. Whereas for social issues are much more liberal. I think that civil rights as an African-American woman civil rights that is a huge one for me and civil liberties. And so that kind of falls in the middle of the spectrum. I feel but also their things like like women's rights, which I really important to me not necessarily for me because I have my own moral beliefs about what I should be I should do with my own body, but I don't think that that should be imposed on other people. So I think that those are sort of the core big issues for me as its Financial civil rights and then also women's right.

05:39 How about you and Stephanie are Amy and in your own words? Can you describe your personal political values? What are the most important issues for you personally sure. So two things. I love to talk about politics and religion the two things that people say you should never talk about but they're they're two of my favorite things. So personal political value. So I'm a conservative. There are sometimes that I feel a little more modern but overall. I'm I'm pretty conservative person. I am socially conservative. I am fiscally conservative what issues are most important to me personally. I will say I'm not a one issue voter but there is an issue that's extremely important to me and it's very personally and that is the issue of life in abortion and very pro-life and I don't just talk about it.

06:39 Preach it. I believe in it. I actively participate in pro-life issues and it's very important to me. But I also am fiscally conservative. I believe in fiscal responsibility. I believe in less government, you know, there's so many different things but I think the most important issue to me is the issue of life.

07:03 And you define life as the moment of conception so I don't believe in any Exception by believe the moment of conception Life Begins and that a heartbeat United States acted can be detected in about twelve days. And I feel like there is absolutely there.

07:21 And I think a lot of that comes from my face and in my religious beliefs as a Catholic and I feel very strongly about my Catholic faith and something that I feel very strongly about. In fact when I have my daughter because I'm single and I had my daughter. I actually went to the Catholic church and spoke to a couple Kris about the situation with having her and how I was going to do that and just knowing that I believe in the sanctity of human life wanted to make sure that you know, not that I needed anyone's permission, but I wanted to know where the church would stand on what I was doing and that I was you know in good faith in and doing the right thing even though I believed it was already, right.

08:12 A question to piggyback off of that little bit with your with your with your pregnancy planned. It was it was it something that just happened or was it something that was planned out and you wanted to because I actually did embryo adoption and it was planned and it was something that I felt pretty strong about I learned about this that there are all these embryos out there that people will create embryos when they want to do in vitro fertilization and they don't use them. Also. A lot of times people will destroy the remaining embryos which in my opinion just like breaks my heart. So there are some that have donated them or you can adopt them or different things. And so I went to the church and said, you know, these embryos are being destroyed and I'd like to have a child.

09:12 Your mother could I receive an embryo and have a child that way so it took about three months and then like a lot of conversations back and forth and they came back to me and said understand what you want to do and why you want to do it and it's a very polite thing to do and basically said, you know sure you're going to do it which I was going to do it but it was just such an unusual issue and it's such a new topic in the Catholic church that I was curious what the position would be a different situation. So my my my background religiously I would like to say is that I was brought up in a Baptist Church. So Baptist family, but I have sinned.

10:04 Since childhood autism reviews and I'm now atheist I will say that my upbringing in that environment definitely has changed me as a person and definitely molds my moral compass as far as what I see is right and wrong and and being an atheist doesn't mean that I have just dictated all of those things that I've learned. So for me my personal decision about abortion in about those sorts of things, I would I would never have an abortion myself just because I don't feel like it would be right for me. At least. That's what I say. Now. I don't you know, you never know what happening and then there's that but for me, it's if it's a personal choice less than sorting a societal. I would never tell you not to have an abortion or not to do what you thought was best for your body and your life and I think that sort of stems from not necessarily my own experience.

11:04 She has four kids and she's she's a single mom with four kids and a lot and she is on assistance and she sees you know, like one of these people who are when I when I talk to you some of my conservative mess they they say it will be people need to get out of the system and I need to do this many. But if you had four kids and it's a weird situation for me cuz I kind of feel like some of the conservative values that I've heard Lynn towards having children, but they're not being able to take care of them. And so Society doesn't actually create a thank you note for those kids to actually be taken care of when they're actually born. If we were to remove the option to to to do that. Then that means there be more births in that begin to be more children not taken care of.

12:04 My experience it's been for me a very challenging to not challenging. I would say it's been one of my life goals to not put myself in a situation where I have to make that choice again. Do you know abstinence I've done everything possible not to have to be in a situation where I have to say will I actually be able to take her and like I said in the in the intro I have done quote on quote all the right thing but no time. So I did the whole go to college if that's what they told me to do when college graduated in the midst of the recession had absolutely no money couldn't find a job then, you know sort of catching up from that this entire time and I haven't been financially even it wasn't even a financial possibility to consider having a child until maybe a year ago for me just because there wouldn't have been that sort of support there.

13:07 Even if you know, I think that's one of the things that I sort of look at when I look at what if something had happened to me or we are on and I really do not have a Ford had a child or no, whether it be, you know, I slipped up or you ready for whatever or something happened. It would be devastating to have to make that decision and I feel like the people who do have to make that decision.

13:35 Who have to make that choice don't need me as someone who doesn't believe in abortion telling them that you know, you're killing a child and maybe that's what some people believe it's happening. It just feels kind of harsh. Sometimes I guess it's how I store to take my take on the abortion. I really actually I really admire your thought you have in that in your logic behind. I do admire that you really clearly thought about that and I appreciate you sharing that.

14:09 Can you describe your earliest political memory? Okay, my earliest political memory. Let's see. So politics is not something we talked about a lot in my family growing up which is interesting because it's pretty much all they talk about now.

14:29 But I work all

14:34 I recall listening to Ronald Reagan on TV and I don't know what the speech was. This was what interested me in politics. I listen to him and he sounded so kind and so sweet and I thought he reminded me of a grandfather and I have one grandfather that I never met he passed away before I was born and I always used to think that you know, he was kind of like a grandfather figure and I don't know why I just thought it was so warm and so sweet and that was quite like the first time that I was like, oh now I want to listen to him more and so I took a real interest in Ronald Reagan because of the fact that I thought you just seem so silly and goofy, but that was when I first like really thought of anything political

15:22 Kind of silly, but that's it. And then who I you know, I would never have thought that I would go work and politics years later was not an interest but

15:30 Alright, so what's your earliest political memory is probably much more logical than my fears first. And so I think that just because of my age there like the first president that I store the first or the political situation that I really remember hearing about on TV was

15:56 Was oh my gosh.

16:02 Well, it was really when Bill Clinton was sort of elected. So for me it was it was that presidential campaign? I guess that's what I have as a child. I sort of started to TuneIn. I remember him playing saxophone on TV and it is exactly like you bother me is my really cool white dude with sunglasses on playing saxophone on Arsenio Hall. Which Arsenio Hall was good. It was always you like from our family. It was like one of us is the first black late night television hosts and you know, the president came on the person who became president was on his show and it was it was that sort of with my first order.

16:50 For me and I guess moving into that it was all of the things that came with the clintons after that. So, you know when peace can do and those sorts of things with when I as it as a person started to really pay attention a lot more to politics politics like do you participate or volunteer or involved but if a friend of mine says, hey, let's go volunteer. I'll definitely go I didn't do much last.

17:33 Streamer last cycle in and luckily. I haven't been really involved in that much pain.

17:43 So I'll share share a silly story with you based on our earlier conversation appreciate this. So here's how I got into about 15 almost 20 years and it was not a career path for me. It was nothing I planned on but a friend of mine many many will several years ago 20 years ago. Actually she and I are both single the time. She's not married has five kids, but we were talking and we thought there might be a good place to meet men. And so we decided to go to a young Republicans meeting be a great place to meet men. And so we went to this meeting and there were four men there and if which we wanted to date although they all became very dear friends over the years. I have silly love them, but it was the funniest thing. I just remember going to this meeting with her and we both are like, okay this didn't work. However, this is an interesting meeting and so that's kind of what star

18:43 Political my real political activism and then eventually working in politics is going to that meeting and then I went back to a second one and the third one. So it was really fun. But originally I got into Politics As I didn't work because of course now, what am I going to like if I want to have a kid soon? I got to get me if I don't go to church, you know, there's no bars to go to + bars their crummy Guys and Fries. They why would I go there? But yeah that that that might be I think that might be a political unit for the something you don't even plan on it's really interesting but it didn't work for me. But you know, I didn't need a lot of interesting men dated over the years, but you know the original

19:43 Intention didn't work for me, but it's still enjoyed sharing that story.

19:50 But you know, I guess we end up in in our paths on the strangest way. So

20:00 So can you explain what politics your involvement?

20:07 You want me to explain it? I'm sorry.

20:13 Okay, sure. I'm happy to share that. So so what I did back then was I I stayed involved with the young Republicans started going to their meetings and we start volunteering on some local campaign organization. We are very active in local campaigns. Look our State Rep our state senator and then we were very active on the presidential campaign. And that's when George W Bush was was running and then after he was elected I ended up moving to Columbus work for the entire Republican party and I thought well, I'm going to take a big lead. I was working in marketing and an internet company and thaw times can take a big leap and go in politics and the people I worked with raw, like I was a poli-sci major. I was in the House Republicans and everything. Okay, but I worked in Columbus. I have an office there for about 15.

21:13 And I kept a home my home back in Lake County and I would travel back and forth weekly and I worked doing field work for the Republican party for a while. And then from there I started doing campaign management and fundraising so I was running campaigns for the Supreme Court and doing fundraising and all kinds kinds of federal state and then local and then after a long time and seeing a lot of fun politics a lot of ugly politics. I decided I had enough and I decided to come back here and completely switch gears jump into something new and went in the nonprofit. And then from there I ended up in in higher-ed which I really enjoy so that's my question. Have you noticed the shift in the political parties? And does that does that affect your your involvement did that affect using

22:13 Political party

22:24 Yep, definitely. So it was during the Kasich Administration in Ohio that I felt things started to go south in the Republican party and I was actually elected to the Republican State Central Committee and there were just so many problems and so much there was so much infighting and takeovers in so many things going on and it was so ugly and a lot of negative things were happening to me as a result of it and it was impacting me personally and professionally and I really just did this is just all going downhill. This is not it's not fun anymore and I'm losing faith in a lot of people and that was really when I started to say it's time to shift gears. I straighten it for a little while longer and work for the congressman who I really liked and after that I finally said I can I just

23:24 Or hesitation to getting super involved in politics because I'm sort of a moderate. So I'm not really a party for me to sort of really how about since the time I've been you know.

23:41 Again, since the Clinton era is not really a party for me to be out and say I'm going to do no and then with both parties nowadays actually heard yesterday. My mom was telling me that Casey is going to be at the DNC and I said that's interesting because he's had a party for you. Haven't been in that for 20 years. It has like a ton of chicken wings.

24:26 Yeah, it really is different and it's just it can be so disappointing. I was a big fan of John Kasich when he first was elected, but just so many things happen with so much infighting and some of the people that that work for him and it was just really disappointing and it just a thought so mean and people were so I'm just trying to ruin you and I just said this isn't this isn't right. It's not right. So it's just, you know, I kind of believe that when things just aren't fun anymore and you don't like what you do anymore. It's time to get out. You know, that's kind of how I felt and it's interesting to see several of the Republicans who everybody has got their opinion and they have the right to choose who they want to choose president.

25:20 I'm not too sure. I really believe a lot of what John Kasich says, you know his him being a moderate doesn't really bother me, but I just I don't feel he's very sincere. Yeah, I mean, I think that's the thing is that you have to enjoy it for me and you have to really be behind the party and be behind the people order to sort of have that be your job and that's why I like education. So that's something we have in common. We're both in higher education. I love Cleveland State and I think that it is rewarding, you know, because you're actually helping people to achieve some dream that they wanted to itchy and I think

26:04 I think that's sort of why you know, I don't know how things can get very nasty and I don't like I don't like when when it gets that way and it feels like more and more we feel more and more divided. I think we're having this conversation right now because we're at a time in our nation when we are so divided even amongst people who have commonalities similar in a lot of ways but also very different and so it's no problem to have conversations with people and sort of not be angry at each other all the time. And that's what it feels like sometimes when I watch things on MTV and politics

26:45 Social media has the worst social media because people prejudge you based on one thing that you said a suit make every assumption about you. And that's the worst social media can be so disheartening I think but I agree with what you said about higher ed. I love that. I actually went to Cleveland State briefly and I actually went to Lakeland which is where I work.

27:15 Vacuum sounds like you just look so familiar. I swear I was so I was there I got my I got it. So I did everything backwards. Like I said, I got my undergrad and then after my undergrad in a recession couldn't find anything. I went back to school. I went to Lakeland Community College and retrained and a degree in database Administration. And I also while I was there I worked I'm probably going to picture somewhere and you see me. I worked in the center for International Education part-time and then I was part of ptk. So I was like one of the vice-presidents there. So I'm sure I'm on pictures of stuff is ridiculous.

28:03 Backwards way of doing your degrees. And so that's I was at Lakeland for that amount of time and I used to do all kind of stuff. I loved it at like when it was great there too. I don't know. I've been at Lakeland for 4 years. I actually went to Lakeland to but that was I graduated happy early from high school and went to Lakeland for a little while until I went away to school. But yeah, you just look very familiar. But you know, I came to work in higher education and something you said kind of I can relate to you know, you're around people who don't think similar to you and and things are getting so ugly sometime then. Came to higher education. And I remember when I first came on board, I was working with our foundation and doing fundraising and then I shifted in the president asked me to come in work in his office, which I was really excited about and I get to do government relations. I get to do work on projects with our president and now I also

29:03 Run our nonprofit Public Service Center does a lot of really fun things but higher education, as you know has a lot of more people who are more liberal-leaning. So I work in an atmosphere where most people don't believe the same things. I believe politically and so you come on board and a lot of times much like social media people prejudge you based on what they know about you your political background and whatever but people can solve a conversation. I absolutely love the people I work with I have such a great team that I work with and most of us are not on the same page and we have discussions and it's fine. We're not going to try to convince each other of anything. We can just share our opinions and we can joke about it and I can make fun of things in my party that can make fun fun of things and their party and you know, it's all good. I think you can have a conversation. So it's a little disheartening when you see things out there people can't have conversations based on.

30:03 And then sometimes to sort of piggyback on this social media is devil, which it is agree with you. There's so much misinformation to and so there's a lot of my friends. I have servative very very very right meaning conservative.

30:23 True and very very left-leaning liberal friends who who sometimes push forward me is like very misleading and what social media that just perpetuates a lot of misinformation just as bad as it with normal media. You hear wrong news and you here? Oh gosh, they're killing all the babies. Then you freak out like that is a crazy thing, but I think that taking things with a grain of salt and being more moderate about you can you can have conversations and just just be like, okay. We have a different viewpoint, but we can still have a conversation so

31:05 Absolutely and people are so quick to attack on social media which really bothers me, you know, if you put a few sentences out there and everybody thinks they know everything about you and just ready to just pounce on you and a lot of times it may not even be your intention and oh my goodness, you know special even like the debate people have about masks and those who want to wear masks and those who don't want to wear masks and if you put something up saying, oh my gosh, everybody should wear masks and everybody will jump down your throat and people have to do what they want to do. But I just feel like if somebody sent on Facebook just recently you just need more puppies and babies videos and then everybody will be happy, you know all about puppy and baby videos, but people need to stop attacking each other just because they don't all agreements.

32:05 I actually find myself staring away from New Media during away from president talking about stuff cuz it just

32:16 It wears on you after I think that saying that if you if you watch the news you're misinformed if you can watch the new form so you do you wind up being somewhere in between all the time. It is it's crazy. But yeah, I agree with that. We need more more accurate and positive sort of media. Social media is the corrupted. It's like I can't I can't deal with all that.

33:02 It is but you're so right and it's hard to because you want to watch the news and you think well, I watch this channel you watch it. But you know what I can see the sway in this channel. I can see the swing that I just want the facts. Let me make up my own mind. Where are we going to get the fact that all I want NPR. I know I read something on Fox and I have to say over. What did they say on CNN and it's always the exact opposite and then I say, let's find somewhere in the middle. What did they say on NPR? This is probably a little bit closer and then you have to read news articles on one story just to get sort of what the actual.

33:46 XR and do you and then you make your decision? Okay. This is how I feel about that but it's it's excruciating and tiring and I don't know I think I'm an old soul nostalgic. But I hearken back to the days when we had three news channels and not worth it. And it looks like here's what what it is and that's it hears the guy on the we're all happy. We did something together as Americans. I don't know. It's just very very bizarre me.

34:16 I couldn't agree with you more. I feel like there's so many sources coming at you and it's hard to decipher. What's real. What's not real? Where's the truth in here and like you I have to read a few different sources until I figure out okay, this is probably what's really going on and then you know, I don't need somebody to tell me how to feel or what to decide about this. I just give me the facts and that's all I need. It's crazy of news. It's like the everything needs to have a click. So Every Idle has to have sent me a bunch of articles about the riots and stuffing I said, yeah, this is because they're trying to get you to click on those articles. Like they just want you to click they're not trying to inform you about trying to elicit an emotional response. And so this is what they do. They're always trying to elicit some sort of like breaking news. Everything is breaking news.

35:16 Can't beat, you know, I just want the facts and just leave the commentary out. I know the facts and not mess with everything. You know, I just don't waste my time with all your coming.

35:45 But that's okay. Okay, so I'm going to ask you now. What did you think when you first read my bio a conservative what stood out most and it was that you were single mom, which I thought was really really interesting again cuz of my, you know, potential running a kid maybe in the future or maybe not I don't know what I want, but I thought it was really interesting and then also that you worked in higher education because like you said typically there's a lot of left-leaning or left-leaning people working in higher education about my best friend who works in higher ed is is Republican. She's very politically involved just like you she from Wisconsin. But yeah, I thought that that was very very interesting.

36:37 And how about you? What did you think when you first read my bio?

36:44 So much like you I thought we were pretty different but I thought higher ed immediately like okay higher ed. Typically left-leaning make sense. Okay, and we're supposed to be not of the same Mind Set On things. So I figured okay. It's that's fine. I thought it was going to be great because I figured I work with left-leaning people in higher at all the time I can have conversations with but I can have a conversation with anybody. So, you know, I enjoy talking to people and I love hearing different things about people so that's pretty cool. I enjoyed reading your bio. I did see the union Mentor SEIU and I thought okay, so probably, you know to the last but that's great that you know to be an interesting conversation at Cleveland State.

37:35 I don't know how it came into that position. Someone volunteered me and I said yes, and then now I'm managing and working with management and negotiating furloughs and contracts and all this sort of stuff.

37:49 Are there a union shop so so everyone who's at CSU has to be in the Union in some way shape or form? But yeah it is it is it isn't interesting thing. I don't necessarily think I agree 100% with all of the New Politics, but I do agree with being able to fight for what you what you wanted.

38:11 How can we come together after this a divisive election year?

38:19 That's a loaded question boy. I don't even know that I have the answer to that but I think you know, honestly, I think this today is a great start having conversations with people having conversations with people who see things completely differently who have different views, but you find common ground you find commonality in and look at us. We got a lot in common and we have a lot of differences, but I think it's just going to have to be a lot of conversation and different groups need to come together and find that Common Ground if they do you have it is a divisive election and I feel like these elections have gotten worse and worse every cycle for the last decade for the last 15 years and it's a little frightening at times and it's frightening to me that people can feel so strong and their opinions and can't see any other way than their own opinion and are so angry with anyone who doesn't bleed the same.

39:19 I don't believe everybody should have the same opinion. You need to have a difference of opinion. If everybody believe the same thing all the time. What a boring world we would live in so I think you can start to have more of these conversations you have to do them in all aspects every sector, you know in a different religions differ everything every group needs to come together and you can't tell people how to feel and what to feel but you can find some common ground and I really think that's a good start think it's going to be tough, but I think there are plenty of organizations out there already trying to start this and do this now.

39:58 But so what do you think after this device of election? How do you think when you personally I feel like the leader of this selection is what we really need. I don't think we need fire and brimstone us. I think that that narrative makes this more like these from happening and I agree with you that we need to have more people from different different more diversity of thought sort of everything. That was you. I think you know, I think as much as some people just like Obama he was definitely a unifying voice.

40:48 I just think that leadership that we might be the way that it is at versus the ground and try to try to be open to leadership. Is it something that sort of drives may I think back to when George Bush was president and we had 911 right now. We're in the craziest order situation that all of us are commonly sharing your more divided now, then we were like none of them.

41:48 Is something that moves me to be more open to everyone?

42:08 I think I don't know. I don't know either way. It's going to be and I don't know if one person with it.

42:38 I agree with you on that. I really do and I I'll tell you I'm just going to head on to that. I think it all starts at the local level agree that whoever wins president has to be a unifier but I think people are so staunch in there. Not a lot of them. You've got a ton of Independence, but you got people that are so staunch and so solid in their political party that they're like, I cannot go to this. I cannot go. I don't care who the president is. I can't you don't see eye-to-eye with them on anyting. I think if we start at the local level and when you can get your local leaders to really make a difference in shaping those conversations and those opinions. I think that then it can you know, you can advance a little far but I think you have to see it at the local level when I mentioned we have a group in Lake County that started several years ago and they're very active Now call begin the conversation and it's all about having conversation and includes local leaders police chief.

43:38 Judges different Community leaders, and I think that this group as it gets bigger what have a bigger impact here in our County and I think it's something that could be done in other counties to I just think you really have to change that conversation and redirect it and have that unifying conversation at the local level because I think of the top somebody can come out and say something but it's going to be so hard to do a triple down. So they really think a local level can really have an income.

44:11 It doesn't it doesn't it doesn't it doesn't it is very important and where I personally have been you know, not as involved as I probably should be cuz yeah.

44:34 Yeah.

44:41 Is there anything you learned about me today that surprised you?

44:48 Yes, couple things actually, I think what surprised me was that you're you're more in the moderate side and I was surprised by your beliefs about just about abortion but about family and everything else in and surprise like, oh my gosh, I can't believe you believe that but the surprise in such a positive way that you know, it's not just a this is my opinion. This is you know what I believe and that's the end of it but it's a surprise in a way that it's enjoyable to hear the thought behind everything is secure that you that it's it's so meaningful to you and you have a path and know what you want to do. And so I don't want to say it's a surprise like in a negative way at all but like really awesome to hear your logic in your thoughts behind everything that you're doing. So, I think that's pretty cool. What did surprise me though was

45:48 You're an atheist and they straight out of the Baptist to an atheist. So that was kind of surprising to me which you know, it would be cool to hear that history behind that but that's that's really surprising, but it's something that's meaningful to you. And then I appreciate you sharing.

46:06 So is there anything that you learned about me today? But surprised you made that choice consciously speak talking to me again, not surprising but like very empowering and also that you decided to do so at a later age in life. And I think that that's something that I think for me. I'll take away its like again, it's super encouraging to me so much responsibility. I can't deal with it for a while for a long while but you know as I get older I started so I think maybe do I want to be the crazy cat lady.

46:52 I don't like cats so I don't know. I thought that was interesting. Also thought I knew that you would be conservative. So that was really interesting to me to the hearing about your shift away from politics or not necessarily away from politics. But, you know your frustration with the with the changes and shifts that are happening in Hardee's was really interesting to me too because I feel that as well and so it was another and another thing that you've dealt with the geese.

47:40 Did Rachel fall off? Yeah, yeah, I really enjoy talking with you. It's really I like it. It's go bad until I seen your picture around. I was almost valedictorian to so that it was between me and a couple friends of mine and then actually they they pick somebody else but we did all this campaigning and stuff. So it was kind of pictures at

48:17 That's got to be it. Yeah, I'm so great. Okay, so I really appreciate did you guys finish your thought on that? Yeah. Thank you guys so much.