Andrea Bordeau and Arik Ohnstad

00:08 My name is Erica instead. I am 47 years old. Today's date is November 1st 2021 and we are in the greatroom of e, Bronson Ingram Hall at Vanderbilt University. My interview partner. Today is Andrea bordeau, and we are long-time colleagues have been working together for nearly five years in the global education office at Vanderbilt. And at Vanderbilt more generally.

00:34 My name is Andrea bordeau. I am 37 years old today is November 1st 2021. We are here at Vanderbilt University in Nashville, Tennessee.

00:47 My interview partner is Eric Ronstadt and our relationship is that we've been working together for a very long time. Now collaborating for years on supporting Vanderbilt students, in their studies and travels abroad.

01:05 Everyone was the first time that you realize the pain zdenek would just radically change your world or your way of life or your way of working.

01:17 I think that it was probably in two parts.

01:22 Initially, when things started to appear challenging and questions were arising.

01:31 I think it was immediately evident that as a professional. I was being challenged in a way that I hadn't been before to the degree of the challenge to the size of the challenge. But more specifically the moment that stands out in my mind is in mid-march when the US Department of state issued its worldwide. Travel alert, a level 4, do not travel to the entire world. That was an unprecedented moment. And as someone who works in the international travel space, but also as someone whose identity is, so closely linked with being able to travel and experience the world. I felt doors closing in a truly profound way and wondering.

02:28 How or when or if they would ever reopen in the same way?

02:36 Arik, was it something similar for you? Or how did your realization begin that? The pandemic would radically change the world for us. You live in perceive it?

02:52 Yeah, I think that when I first started to, to really get the notion that the things were really changing, it was when we started to, it was exactly that that same time when it became worldwide. First. We thought it was China and then from our position, it was Italy. And then after that, it was worldwide. And so that happened and I think very shortly thereafter. We had our first on campus case at Vanderbilt causing the university to close down. Because, of course, nobody knew how to deal with this yet. Nobody knew what it was, what it would take to them, to put the paws. I just slow down this virus. And so I think it was over the course of the next few weeks that it really started to hit me what it would mean and how long this could go on. And of course it's gone on much longer than I anticipated. It would as well. We haven't managed to handle it as well as I would have liked to the country. But

03:51 I wish I was about the same time and

03:54 Yeah, I am. I still wonder what it will mean for some far-flung areas of the world that I've always wanted to visit and how long it will be before we can be there. But absolutely. I appreciate your point about that Cascade around the world. I think, for those of us who work and International Education work at a university. We first felt this when it came to China and then Italy as as Eric mentioned. And for those of us who work with students, in the International Education space, when we started to see this virus touching locations, that were popular among our students or just prominent programs at 4 universities around the country. We knew that it meant something different.

04:51 Arik, and I have both been in this field through SARS and MERS and Ebola and similar types of challenges, but those challenges, very often did not touch the spaces where our students were more engaged where we had very large numbers of individuals that we were responsible for until I remember this moment. I think it was February, possibly early to mid February of 2020, where Eric was standing in my office door way.

05:27 And I remember saying, if this hits Spain, all bets are off.

05:35 And knowing that we could isolate and manage cases in places like China or Japan or India to name a few locations where our enrollment numbers in the number students. We support or small. This could be an individual response.

05:58 But I remember saying to Eric as soon as this goes to parts of Western Europe.

06:05 Our world.

06:07 In many ways, will implode because of the sheer number of humans that we support.

06:17 Right, and I remember when it did hit Italy, we still thought, well, maybe it will be contained there to the extent that just to give one detail. Our office Was preparing care packages, for those students who would have to come home from Italy when Italy's numbers were raging. But Spain did not yet seen, huge numbers. So we had, I think 40-ish students coming back from Italy and we were preparing to send them care packages. And before we could get those care package, has done it spread. I believe to Spain with the next big location and yeah, from there. It was just a very fast Cascade.

06:53 Absolutely, and in this moment, we knew that we were managing.

06:59 A situation so much bigger than ourselves bigger than our students bigger than our institution, knowing that.

07:09 When we heard about cases emerging among student populations in different locations, we knew the implications for our universities. No one wanted to be the first University with cases of Rod. No one wanted to be the university that had students stranded. And so we knew just how big it was even in the very beginning.

07:38 And I think that, that was something for those of us in our roles. It was, it was very hard to translate externally.

07:45 I think there were.

07:48 There was a realization or recognition of this pandemic In Waves, the same way. We've had waves of cases, end, and Peaks and surges knowing what it meant for our world came to us in a different way.

08:07 And so, when we think about Peak pandemic, that Peak, I think for for Eric and I hit much earlier for most others. I know that.

08:23 I will never forget.

08:26 Receiving an email in the very beginning of January from another colleague here. At Vanderbilt. Who asked what I thought about this coronavirus in Wuhan China and what it meant for our institution, in our students, who may be traveling to China.

08:45 And I remember because Eric and I have have lived and worked through SARS and MERS Ebola on these types of issues. I remember,

08:56 Being very confident and thinking that this was something that we could manage and it was something isolated. Because in almost every other circumstance, these cases were isolated. These situations were very isolated.

09:10 And knowing just a few weeks later, how absolutely wrong. That assumption was was so humbling. And

09:21 It in good, in a way. I'm again being able to see that. This was something so far beyond our work, and that this was going to engulf all of humanity in a very profound way.

09:38 Arik do any moments stick out in your memory as Peak pandemic. Well, as you said, for that whole. We're from February into March and April, when we were bringing students back and then after we did, have them back in the US when

09:58 My team in the global education office. We're all trying to figure out how we could get, keep them whole academically to make sure they could graduate that graduate, but they can finish the semester with a full semester's worth of classes, wherever possible working with the Dean's office is here. I'm working with the vice Provost for academic Affairs on that project. That's what really for me felt like Peak pandemic because it was a time when we were putting in many, many hours, of course, but also, when we were just most intensively

10:30 Responding to what? It happened. So even though the pandemic and not peaked in the US at all, in terms of case, numbers, by that point.

10:39 It would begin to soon thereafter. But to me that's still feels like the part of the pandemic bringing students home and then dealing with their academics afterwards. That just

10:52 Where my life was felt the most transformed even though of course in the summer afterwards is when our lives of the whole were most transformed when when masking went into place and we were all locked up in our houses. And in all of that is a is a collective in the u.s. Never the last for me. If he came to endemic is that time where we were working with students.

11:15 I think it may be helpful to anyone who listens to our conversation to know a little bit more about our roles in the way that we serve students. Eric. Do you want to take a minute to just share a little bit about your role here at Vanderbilt and what you do to support our students. I work in the global education office, which is the office that a sports undergraduate students at Vanderbilt in their study abroad. So from the time they start thinking about studying abroad. We are mentoring and Advising them on exactly what it will take to study abroad. How to map there at the academics to studying abroad, giving them tips on how to work with their academic advisors to make that happen. Working through Logistics of visas and travel. And also, just trying to help them figure out what their goals should be for studying abroad there. So many things you can do with study abroad.

12:13 And so while they're abroad, we are typically a little bit more distant, but still available if students need us, but of course, that was a big shift during the pandemic and, and how much we needed to be available to them while they were abroad and how much kind of support we needed to give them all the way they were there. And typically, I'm return. There is some support that we do, but nothing like what we had to do after this event. How about you Andrea? So from my perspective, I have a slightly different role, but one that I could not do without Eric and his team, I am Vanderbilt's director of global Safety and Security and I technically oversee all University travel. So that is our faculty staff undergraduate graduate and professional students. So, anyone who is around the world on Vanderbilt business,

13:08 I'm is technically under the guidance of my office and receives both pre-departure and proactive support, as well as 24/7 crisis management and incident response.

13:21 I am part of an international pier network called pulse, which is international Safety and Security Professionals in higher education. We are about a hundred and thirty individuals around the world, whose sole Focus Falls within Academia and supporting traveler mobility in traveler, safety and well-being. And

13:49 This group in many ways. I think for a long time, has existed in the shadows of the institutions where we serve we are behind the scenes fixers. That is largely our role.

14:05 Many of us go into this work because we love a challenge, there is no puzzle.

14:11 Too complicated.

14:14 And yet.

14:16 In many ways we function very quietly and very privately.

14:22 Because no one really wants to highlight the incidents or what goes wrong as opposed to all the ways in which things go well. And they often do.

14:34 So this pure Network through the pandemic has really moved into the light in many ways. And the work that we do.

14:47 Is much more visible than it's ever been and I I hope it stays that way because, you know, we do so much more than simply supporting our institution through an issue like covid-19. But we, we are here for the, you know, the mundane to the

15:12 To the epitome of all challenges that we've seen over the last couple years.

15:17 And supporting our institutions, supporting our students is always the highest priority, but being able to have that Pierre Network.

15:29 Those are the people that I have become most reliant on being able to share the experiences with another group of individuals, dedicated to the same work, being able to share strategies for an approach. And when I bring that information back to my own institution here at Vanderbilt.

15:52 That is only made effective by having a partner, like Eric in his office that can then put these ideas into motion. So, when I think about the people or services that have become most important, it's that

16:11 The ability to function as a true team was truly brought out during covid, I think.

16:20 Absolutely, you know, I think maybe we should say a little bit more about how we collaborated to during that time because in some ways I feel like we had a hard time finding the time it either of us to collaborate and at the same time, it's because we were both working to support the students and bring them back and in in different ways, but I can't tell you.

16:45 Enough, how appreciative I am of, how you handled all the students in bringing so many of them back, because you were handling much more of the individualized return plans, especially for those students who had the most rough, patches. And, of course, also working with our partners who are worked or focused on safety in particular and then I was a little bit more focused on how do we communicate about this in a broader way, but I think from my perspective while that was those were some tasks that I had to do and there was a lot of juggling and just move in and coordinating of of the staff in the global education office that I was doing.

17:32 The, I'm just so proud of the work that you did and I'm grateful for the work. You did to bring those students back individually and, and in their groups during the pandemic because it was such a

17:48 A difficult time. And, you know, I think maybe we should bring in the human element here and describe how little of us. A little either of us slept during those weeks from early February, until maybe the end of March. Yeah, intense human element Eric and I were both putting in sixteen-hour or more days during those weeks on end. They were no longer Monday through Friday. They were seven days a week and for my part in the individual movement of students in evacuation from locations.

18:35 I think something that challenged me the most at this point was that for every incident or case that I had managed to my career that was always an answer. There was always a way there was always someone. I could call. There was always something that could be invoked to move a mountain to change the flow of water. It was, it was it, it's an incredible thing in our world and it's part of the, the fun of the challenge in this type of work, but covid changed that. And for our students, in certain locations, I think to myself of Morocco in particular.

19:13 There was just nothing that could be done until the gates opened again.

19:19 Morocco closed, its airspace.

19:22 Without warning.

19:24 And we had several students there on the ground who either had flights delayed or canceled.

19:32 And,

19:34 In normal circumstances, I would have been reaching out to everyone. I know around the globe. Every security, provider, intelligence providers, different National governments, even

19:47 And we would have found a way but when an entire country closes its airspace, there is no plane that goes in or out. There is no helicopter rescue. There is no boat.

20:01 There was nothing to be able to tell the students and their families. Other than

20:08 To, please trust that we will do everything we can and we will be watching this every minute that we can ultimately it. It did work out really well. We, we

20:23 Were alert and aware when the window opened. When the borders and the airspace open, just briefly enough to allow those who needed to leave to leave. And we had the resources.

20:38 In place already so that flights were secured and students could get home to their families as quickly as possible.

20:47 But I think that it will probably stick with me forever that feeling of of absolute powerlessness.

20:57 22 know that no intervention of my own making would be able to do anything.

21:07 That needed to be done.

21:09 So Lessons Learned, of course, you know, it relate to patients.

21:18 And fortitude.

21:21 And willingness to lean on others. And I think that's been

21:26 Something that has stuck with me as we move through continued. Moving through this pandemic Eric is is there something that stands out to you as a lesson or life lesson learned from our experience.

21:44 I think it would be.

21:48 Humility. As you were mentioning because there are a lot of things to be to be humble about, and

21:59 And the need to.

22:03 Prepare for many things by trying to do things, right? The first time not leave things hanging as we are, you know, preparing at least you. And I have been working together now to prepare for, restarting study abroad for the last few months. And I'm, we now have students abroad now, but I think the proper preparation and you can prefer everything. You can't fill students brains with enough information to to give them the autonomy to to move through every little thing that could happen. But I think what it's really done for me is, is emphasized in A Renewed way, the importance of preparing. Well,

22:48 For whatever, we can divine.

22:53 And be willing, I'm an eternal optimist to be willing to look at the worst case scenario and and and to put optimism aside for a bit to try to also see how bad things could go and prepare for that. So I would say that that is I think the major lesson learned and luckily we've been collaborating together to to try to cope with. That lesson is the perfect compliment for me. My role is entirely based in finding what could go wrong at all times. I have to be looking at the Dark Side of every question at all times and so,

23:46 Arik, your optimism is what keeps the conversation going? And I think off and motivates me to find solutions to questions and challenges that I think, you know, when we have fatigue, whether it be physical or emotional, it would be easy right now to

24:08 Keep the doors closed when it comes to opportunities for our students.

24:13 And,

24:15 That optimism is so necessary because in the world that is still unclear. How to navigate.

24:24 It's just so critical to be able to offer something to our students, to help them engage globally again before they graduate, before they move on to what's neck. I remember

24:41 Hearing and sitting in conversations, where

24:47 Counterparts mentioned that we could be graduating classes of students who may have never had an international experience who may never have set foot outside of their own country.

25:00 And that truly touched my soul in a very profound way, to know that something that I was so dedicated to.

25:11 May not be happening for these students. And so, despite the fatigue. I think Vanderbilt has done an excellent job at finding a path forward.

25:24 I think it's easy to talk about the challenges in the obstacles, but I think we also need to talk about what's going well.

25:32 Arik, and I put forward a plan to

25:37 Gently restart our International engagement efforts for our students.

25:42 And that has been going really well. We have over 40 undergraduate, students currently abroad this fall.

25:51 And many of them are seniors and I think that's something.

25:57 Just really incredible that we were able to find a way to make this happen in certain locations where it was.

26:05 Where it made sense?

26:07 I think it's also important to mention How Deeply Eric and I have been thinking about

26:13 Ethics and whether or not travel.

26:19 Is essential. That's a question right now. Throughout the pandemic, we've been asked her. We've heard the terminology essential so much that it's easy to ask ourselves now is is is this truly essential? And when it comes to International experiences for students, Eric, and I think we both fair to say, we believe that they are absolutely

26:43 And so the commitment that Vanderbilt has shown to keeping this moving has been to an inspiring. I've been very grateful to be here during this pandemic and to see how the leadership here.

27:01 Has done everything, it possibly can to maintain agility and flexibility.

27:09 But I think that

27:11 Something maybe we can talk about is how covid-19 on so many levels has become a risk like no other.

27:21 Arik from your perspective.

27:24 How has covid-19 changed how you're able to think about risk for your students?

27:37 In some ways covid-19 has threatened to be the only risk we consider. I think. And that is something that you. And I talked a lot about needing to to push back against in our own minds, but also in the minds of others and I think in this case, you mentioned that my optimism is a good for oil for your weed here in pessimism to the filth Into Your Role, but I think in this case, the students are actually a good for oil for for this because for students, many of them, they do not see covid-19 as the over.

28:17 Overwhelming risk, that that pressure is amongst. The the rest of us is an administration at the University, governmental, Focus, Etc. They don't necessarily see it that way. So I'm part our rules involved, convincing students that it is a risk, but at the same time, I think it's good to their reminder, that that there are other risks that may be finding the mental health care while they're abroad, is just as important or more important. In some ways, to mitigating the overall risk students face, then then covid-19 preparations, specifically are the way I've come to think about how we study abroad in the age of covid? Is that we

29:09 We work with Partners overseas to try to create a kind of a, a covidsafe bed without necessarily.

29:22 Leaving aside the rest of the, the risk that student face and DM in the challenges for them. I'd love to hear your opinion though. On that Android, because I think that's been much more of hard. Your everyday every moment. It says it's a big part of what I've been doing a lot. Of course. I've been almost all of the time I spent thinking about it. I spend thinking about it with you. And so, I would love to hear more on your perspective. That question.

29:51 I think that.

29:54 It's been, it's been interesting to see the evolution of the thinking around covid-19 as the only risk.

30:04 I like how you mentioned that.

30:07 Prior to the pandemic.

30:09 I used to say that a big part of my job was convincing students families and institutions that terrorism was actually not the risk that they thought it was.

30:25 I was very involved in working with students, after the 2015, Paris attacks and the terrorism that we saw throughout Europe in 2014 15 and earlier even that dating back to 2007 in Madrid and London. And so, for many years terrorism has dominated the conversation around University travel risk.

30:56 I think that.

30:59 In many ways. It's it's important to remember the, the Heritage and how we, how we ended up in this in these positions, and why we have a need. For someone like me at an institution. I don't think many people realize that I believe the number was 35, but I think there were 35 Syracuse University students on board Pan, Am 103. When it went down.

31:27 And that was one of the first times that an institution.

31:33 Face what we would in the field considered to be a mass disaster.

31:37 Were, you had 35 students, their families. Their loved ones their their friends, the extended Community affected in such a deep way.

31:49 And so there was so much trauma around that especially, you know, among institutional peers about what could happen or what could be if we were faced with a similar situation, so much of our preparation in our efforts around risk, mitigation and risk management, and planning was to think about incidents like terrorism, although a majority of the challenges that face our students, a majority of the hard things that happened overseas are much more mundane. They're connected to transportation.

32:30 They're connected to things that happened. I usually save you know, between the hours of midnight and 5 a.m.

32:37 These witching hours, where

32:40 Things just go wrong.

32:43 It's being in the wrong place at the wrong time. It's random.

32:47 And it's about having the right support in place to deal with those situations when they happen, but for so many years terrorism, led the conversation around student safety abroad and I'm seeing a similar pattern. I seen a similar pattern emerge with covid-19. Now,

33:06 We're the only consideration. We have the mental space to have is covid-19 reality. That is not the primary concern and either for our students or in reality with the incidents that we're facing a broad still.

33:25 And so it represents a distraction from many other things.

33:33 And many other challenges that we could be facing. And so our attention is pulled in a lot of different directions. Our attention is pulled away from this and so a big part of our commitment right now is making sure that our attention

33:50 Is spread more broadly?

33:54 But absolutely covid has become one of the only things that we can think about and plan for and talk about.

34:05 And I think it's going to be an interesting transitional time for all of us. When we move back toward looking at those other challenges.

34:16 It's almost at like we need to regain muscle memory. We need to wear out of shape. At the moment. We need to to think about what we used to be doing and how to do it even better.

34:30 Despite the distractions are absolutely. And I think the intense Focus that every the leadership of every institution of higher education in Mandeville. Not an exception has had to give toward covid-19, and especially to making sure that the campus experience is safe. And to make sure that all of the different constituents are are, both are both be safe as they can make them and feel as safe as we can help them. To feel has definitely

35:00 Moved attention away from especially folks like us who have been thinking about when we haven't had to think about covid-19. Thinking about other ways that we can move the international experience forward, whether it's making it more affordable. So that every student can participate, those kinds of things which we view is as critical toward for the operations that we want to do going forward getting that up through all of the, I will call it noise. But through the the natural and necessary work that our leadership has to do has been very difficult. And so I think we are going to be facing when this is all done a

35:47 A Renewed emphasis on our own Parts on the things that we think are important. But also renewed attention to things that have been

35:56 Rusting maybe as a way to think of it while we're working abroad. So that why we've been dealing with covid-19, Andrea. What? What are you most proud of during the pandemic?

36:13 And your response to it, I guess.

36:18 I would say that.

36:22 I am most proud of.

36:25 The Partnerships that I've had at Vanderbilt and externally,

36:30 But I'm also incredibly proud of our students.

36:34 I am.

36:39 Blown Away by them all the time, their resilience, their commitment, to their future, and the things that they want to do in the way they want to experience the world.

36:52 I,

36:54 I'm proud that.

36:57 Our students have been so committed to.

37:02 This experience is fall being positive that I can say. It's been.

37:08 It's been quiet in all the right ways. Knock on wood. You never say that in this field, but it's it's been good. And so I'm, I'm

37:19 I'm proud of the parts of humanity who have stepped up and done more than they needed to. I'm proud of our students for.

37:29 Choosing to get vaccinated, choosing to wear masks choosing to protect others around the world. When they travel in these spaces. I'm proud of our students for being thoughtful and considerate citizens of the world and getting to see them in that experience.

37:50 Arik order. What are you most proud of during the pandemic? I think I am most proud.

37:58 Of more or less. Exactly, what you just articulated, being most proud of which is proud to be at Vanderbilt. And to be part of Vanderbilt deciding to restart study abroad with this fall M right now. And that is to me, it's been, I think the biggest at least work-related emotional high of the pandemic for me has been being able to send these 40-ish students abroad two-thirds of whom were seniors. As you mentioned to do, things like cap off their Spanish degree by studying abroad in Spain and taking all the classes in Spanish. Those students are, you know, I'm just proud that we were able to open that door for them and that we and we fought hard to do it. I guess that's what I'm proud of and I'm proud that Vanderbilt made it happen because some of our peers did not

38:54 Open up, study abroad, this fall. And so, to been here in to work with the with you and the others who who made that happen. I would say that's also my proudest moment of the pandemic. And for me, the, the pride in that also connects to the joy that we've been able to experience throughout the pandemic and it's a one of the the things that has brought me. Most Joy. During this time. Is that recently, I've been able to travel abroad again in order to conduct site, assessments, and safety Assessments, in order to make sure that our locations were truly ready for our students.

39:34 And being able to do that, has just been the most incredible privilege to

39:43 To get on a plane again, to enter another country again, to be met by Partners abroad that we worked with for years, but now I haven't seen in years.

39:55 And to say to them, thank you. Thank you for all you did for our students. Thank you for all your continuing to do for us.

40:04 And I've missed you. We've missed you. I've missed the world. And so being able to do that has just brought back this profound Joy again. And so I think in a way there's been

40:18 There's been this sort of Awakening this opportunity to reflect opportunity to step back. I think had covid not happened. Had the pandemic not occurred. We all just keep going. So, in a way, there was this perfect Paws that allowed us to release allowed me to develop some perspective.

40:40 About the things in the experiences that I value the most and so, in a way, that was a strange gift.

40:50 Arik, is there something for you? That's brought.

40:53 About some enjoying this. I haven't been able to travel yet Andrea, but

41:02 One of the things that I was able to do in the summer of 2020, after that Peak pandemic. Of bringing students back was to, to work.

41:16 On something for my own life, working on genealogy of of relations of mine. My great-great-great uncle who had traveled to Britain. I found some folks who had documentary information on his life or touching his life and we began a big correspondence Among Us. An extended family. They're unrelated to me, but related to each other and it was just them was pretty joyful to to connect internationally in that way.

41:50 While exploring an aspect of my own cultural history, so that's kind of one of the places where I've been able to keep the connection alive and look forward to being able to travel and and meet some of these folks in person. So thank you for being my conversation partner today. I really enjoyed it. Well, thanks for inviting me.