Ann Meredith and Leah Juliett

00:00 My name is [email protected]. 4 years old. Today is Thursday, August 12th, 2021. I'm calling in from Norwalk, Connecticut. And I'll be talkin to Ann Meredith. Who is my friend and my colleague.

00:16 And my name is Auntie Meredith and I'm 73 years old, and I'm in New York City. And I'm speaking with my colleague [email protected] friend.

00:31 August 12th, 21st, and the first person that I thought of when given the opportunity to talk through storycorps was you and because even though we haven't known each other for very long, in fact, you know, we met at the Women's Music Festival in June. The moment that you shared some of your identity with me, I really saw myself reflected and I am a firm believer that you can't be who you can't see and being able to see parts of my identity and my experience as reflected in another person was and continues to be very affirming and also feeling for me, so I wanted to start by, you know, making sure that we can clearly Define our relationship with our sex.

01:31 Orientation and gender identity. So what pronouns do you use? And what are the words that you use to identify yourself? And why are they important? Absolutely, I identify as lesbian, queer non-binary. And I use she and her specifically because whatever. I do, I want the world to know that a woman is doing it. So, yeah, been a feminist a long time. I came out in 1970, many years ago, and I've been clear for a long time, but I still think it's very important to for women's visibility. Women are people who identify as women visibility.

02:17 Yeah, I I agree. I use they them pronouns. I identify as non-binary and queer and for me and I'm binary falls under the transgender umbrella. I think my relationship with gender identity and sexual orientation has been very fluid. Overtime. I came out when I was like 13 years old and I thought, you know, I'm a gay woman and I'm going to be gay my entire life. I'm only going to be attracted to cisgender women and that changed a lot in college. When I found myself attracted to people of all gender identity and then I kind of found myself having a bit of an identity crisis because I no longer fit into the box of identity that I have labeled myself. So I found the word queer and it me it meant a lot to me to be able to express that there's really no bounds to the love that I can express for another person regardless of what their identity.

03:17 And I also really relate to lesbian culture, and I identify as well as someone who very much relate sand is proud of feminism, and it's intersectional views. So, I, I think it's so interesting that we both share the identities of queer and non-binary. We both had lesbian experiences because we both obviously have had very different backgrounds and have grown up and very different places and got a different time and in a different time in history. I was at Berkeley in the sixties, you know, People's Park Square, riot, LGBT rights, and women's rights and People's Park, and lots of movements at the very beginning. I wanted to say that.

04:07 Lesbian is my main focus. And fact, I have a real concern about the reality of how lesbian culture is being overlooked and overstepped. I have a series called Lost girls, rediscovering, lesbians and lesbian culture cuz I feel like we're really are getting lost. And that's very upsetting to me and it's a real concern. So I wanted to say that out loud. I think saying things out loud and putting language to how we feel is very life-saving and I am I agree with you that, I mean growing up during that pivotal moment of civil rights history. I, I can't imagine what that was like, the biggest, the first

04:54 Moment that I remember being activated by a social movement, was both black lives matter in the early 2010 era. And also deal Burger fell case in 2015 that really activated me as a young gay person, realizing that my voice mattered and made a difference. But I think now that we live in 2021 and civil rights is

05:25 Just at the Forefront of everything that we do and we're finally able to see that visibly and articulate that in a way that's legible for people. I think we realize that we've always been living through periods of civil rights, even when it wasn't necessarily, there was necessarily a specific moment or a specific movement that we can tentatively articulate. That being said. I wanted to know and Brio's I am the variety of intersectionality of all of the different communities. Is that it's about for me, human rights, civil rights. Yes, but even more deeply human rights, you know, I said, I'm 7300 Mi 74th year. This is the first time in my life time. I've seen everyone come together. That's never happened before. Not on this.

06:25 Deep and Broad of a level. And I find that very hopeful and encouraging.

06:31 Yeah, I see a lot of hope they're as well. I think I'm from a family that is very conservative. I was raised in the most redtown politically ideologically in the state of Connecticut, which is known to be a very liberal State. And so I think I saw growing up through both church and the political views of some of my family members that as hopeful as X can be, there also, very dark and that as loud and Unapologetic, I can be about my identity. It doesn't necessarily always make me safe. So while I am certainly hopeful, I'm wired for hope, I'm a hopeful person. I do also see things, daily. Make me very concerned about not only our democracy but also the safety of those who face marginalization in the lgbtq + community and be

07:31 So I think that's why us being here today, telling her stories telling how things have changed over time. But still there is progress to be made is really important, the focus of my company, which I founded in 1970 swordfish, Productions, pictures, and Theatrical has always been always bottom line. First thing is to work together to collaborate in the communities to help. Give a realistic compassionate face and voice to those who people and cultures that are under

08:12 Recognized and therefore underserved somewhere toy line. You said earlier, if they don't see us. We don't exist. My job has always been to let people see us all of us. And and mostly those of us that people don't want to see or have turned away from or walked away from on purpose. And and that's not okay. I did a ten-year project on women with HIV and AIDS and at the exhibition, one day, this woman. You know, quite wealthy and appearance came up to me and she said, if I didn't know the title of this exhibition,

08:53 I didn't I wouldn't know that those people these people have Aids and I said then I've done my job because AIDS and HIV. Don't discriminate, everyone is at risk seeing is really believing. Yeah, and visibility is life-saving.

09:13 And it's not that we physically can't be singing. It's that folks. Actively choose not to see us or to not view us as legible. Humans deserving of equity or like you were saying, human rights I-40 and I've been working in the trenches for 50 to 55 years, to International conferences, on on women, won in 85 in Nairobi in Kenya East Africa, and then in 85 and 95 in Beijing and why row, and it was so awesome and so humbling because there were thousands but they expected 1,500 people and 15,000 came, right? And

10:13 Women from places that you Countryside, never even heard the name of the thing that really broke and open my heart at the same time. Was that everyone was fighting for the same equal rights and goals, no matter where they lived around the around the world. It's amazing. There's so much going on that. We don't even know about, but it's important to let people know that all this is going on. I love what you said about. How something can at the same time, break your heart, but also open your heart and I think that that leads into both of our experience is a survivors of trauma. So I'm wondering how your identity as a Survivor and packs. The work that you do and how it impacts your queer identity. And the way you relate to others.

11:04 Everything impact, being a survivor.

11:08 Impacts everything for me, but it's it's a it's not a, it's not a good story. You know, you're basic incest rape.

11:20 Date rape.

11:22 Battered wife, military experimentation interrogation torture.

11:32 Military sexual assault and a crime.

11:40 I don't want to say too much of my identity is.

11:45 In being a Survivor, but and it's what's kept me alive because I never expected to live past the age of 10. And so every day of my life and I mean this with all my heart is a miracle and my job is to give back and to help others Express themselves because it just didn't expect to be here at all. So that's always been the focus. So it's been a gigantic part and my art, you know, I'm a writer director producer, Fine Art, photographer, performance, and installation artist. All my work has been focused about expressing.

12:31 The lifelong ramifications that I still have to deal with on a daily basis. As a Survivor people who don't this is one of the questions we were talking about earlier is that people who have not been abused and thank God there are still some they don't really know what happens. It's it never goes away. It's never over one has to live. If it if it took seconds, if it happened to someone in seconds or if it was a lifelong or half of your life, lifelong ramifications, still happen every single day. Physical pain panic attacks inability to function disorientation, you know, it's just it's never over and and people need to know that because then they might be a bit more sensitive to people who have been hurt.

13:24 Cuz you know that horrible line of that happened two years ago, get over it. No, we never no one ever gets over. It. It makes me tear up a lot because when you said you didn't see yourself living past the age of 10, I say all the time. And all of my writing whenever I speak somewhere. I always say I didn't think I would live past the age of a 15 or 20 and every few years and that being a new Milestone that I didn't see myself pushing through because of the depression because of the assaults because of the trauma PTSD. And literally, I, you know, this happened, my first initial trauma happen to me that I can remember when I was fourteen and twenty-four. So it's been 10 years and in spite of that time. It also feels like, no time has gone away at all. And I do feel like my younger self.

14:24 The person who went through that, I often find myself separating my younger self from, who I am now. I think that's as a coping mechanism. But then once in a while, when I remember I am her, she is me. They are me. It's a beautiful moment of strength, Reclamation, because I am able to tell myself. No, actually that is you, and you survived this. And now you can speak on behalf of your younger self, who survive as far as how it interacts with my lgbtq identity. I think it interacts with every I found it and now lead a nonprofit called March against revenge porn, which fights against technology-based sexual abuse, child, sexual abuse imagery and Mitchell, domestic violence, and things like that. And through March against Revenge poor. We've realized that the lgbtq + Community is disproportionately vulnerable to all

15:24 Different types of technology-based of uses. And so, unfortunately, it's not just abuse in the Physical Realm anymore. It's all happening online now, and it makes our trauma lifelong, in itself, is already a lifelong. But when it has, when it's on the internet for everyone to see, there's a physical reminder of the abuse in the violence that happened to you. It is heartbreaking. But at the same time, it opens my heart. Like, you were saying to be able to say, this is not acceptable and I will not accept it for another second of another minute of another hour of another day. Yeah, and I think the both of us. What happened to us as being the end of our lives. That actually, as a catalyst, for what we still have to work. We still have to do for the future in 44, others.

16:23 For me, a large emphasis of the work that I do now, is very personal. I had an experience yesterday. I went for my first appointment to a new therapist and she didn't see me. She didn't hear me. She crossed my boundaries. She was in the bathroom when I got there, and I had to wait for her. And I emailed the coordinator today and said it's not going to work. That's a freaking miracle for me as a Survivor instead of dragging it on and accepting, what is? But that was a form of abuse? That was a form of abuse. And the more and empty, the supervisor emails back today and said, thank you so much for telling me. I will pass this on to the the team and we'll find another therapist. So, while I'm really visible out in the world, you know, I've got three scripted readings, coming up of my award-winning stage, play titled special, and working on this for me.

17:23 Years. It's also an acclaimed screenplay for motion picture feature, film, and the whole message about special 6, lead roles for women identified.

17:34 Survivors is that you can begin your healing process, one. Anyone everyone can begin their healing process, simply by telling someone else what happened to them? And of course, that's the most difficult and painful terrifying thing to do, but that's, we've got to do it. You know, we have to do it. Then I'm confronting, the people that hurt us like nobody gets off anymore in the seventies in Berkeley when there was a very strong female, identified, women's community, and women were being raped back. Then there actually was a group of women that would then go to the rapist house and confront him.

18:16 I'd like to see that reinstated.

18:21 There are many, many days when I want to confront the person or the people who have harmed me.

18:32 And I, I recognize that that's probably dangerous for me. So instead I saved my own life. I wake up. I do the small little victories that get me to where I need to be. And then I continued championing the revolution of against techface sexual abuse and I try to make sure that no other man gets away with the harm that he has caused me, and that is kind of my own Reclamation. But sometimes, I do want to show up to his house and sometimes I do want to

19:14 Burn it down, not physically, but burn down the structure, the infrastructure of violence that he has created out of my life. But instead, I create art and I create and I organized and I speak and I advocate and so I, I know that we both create art Navigator, as a playwright. You do that and so many beautiful ways. I'm a poet. And I was wondering if we could both share moments from our respective poems or plays that I've aided us in our, our Journeys to Healing.

19:56 World.

19:58 I'm also a performance artist and a writer director and producer as well as a playwright. I can give you the legally. I can't give you the one-liner, but I can give you the two liner possibly having a major breakthrough right now. Sometimes sometimes, like, when we do scripted readings, I'll have all women and, and they're always diverse and inclusive are our cast and crew and team and everything. That's a bottom-line commitment for me. And once in La at the theater of note, when I was working in Hollywood. It is scripted reading with all men, reading all the women's roles and it was really awesome. It gave me a whole nother perspective. Something I never could have done years ago, right, without all, the healing that I've been through to allow the men to be in the Rose Bowl in the end. They all admitted that they were

20:58 Survivors themselves, right? And in my work, my focus is still on on women, so I can give you the two liner of special. The women knew they best friends since high school, the women knew, they shared a bond that one's deeper than most. Now, an opportunity has presented itself for them to reclaim their stolen innocence to finding their voice. And speaking, the truth.

21:26 I was laughing because I just I I so relate to the idea of speaking, the truth to reclaim stolen innocence. That's literally my story. And so it's so beautiful to me that

21:42 Not able to be put pen-to-paper in. I can see myself reflected there and waste that I rarely been able to see myself reflected in real life.

21:53 Truth becomes power in the world.

22:00 Exactly. For me as a poet. I've been writing my whole life to the point where there were times growing up, when my mom would send me this therapy and she would bring my poems, and show the therapist and say, you know, there is something wrong with her. If she is writing such sad poems and has such a good life. And I say that is trauma that his depression. But, okay. And so, but my poems have become much more specific. And I've been able to really utilize writing to tell stories about things that have happened to me now. And not just write sad metaphors that my mother will never understand. And I have a book coming out later this year, which will be a, technically, not the first book, but the first really meaningful book called naked in public that that is a collection of poems. That tells my story is with body neutrality.

23:00 Mental health and being a Survivor and queerness and transmission and things like that. And I think one of the lines, not from my personal home that from a poem. That means a lot to me called after Googling affirmations for abuse Survivors by Ciara. The molder is, I am my own higher power. I will carry myself out and actually have that line tattooed on me because it means so much to me. And I think,

23:30 Growing up in such a way where we were required to find a higher power to pray to to, you know, to give us approval of who we are and how we're navigating the world. I was never able to

23:46 Not only see myself reflected there. But also I was never able to understand how if there was some sort of higher power that was supposed to be looking out for me why that higher power made me susceptible to abuse for being gay. Why the higher power made me susceptible to trauma and violence and abuse in so many different ways. And so I realize it's to do that poem. But I'll see if they're my own poems that you can be your own higher power. You can save yourself. You can rely on yourself in ways that you can't rely on someone else or anyone else. And you can carry yourself out of the dark. I know, because I've done it. I've seen it done by survivors, and I think that survivors are the most reliable, beautiful, strong, higher Powers I've ever seen that Bob has definitely aided me and my journey to heal, nice, nice, for me. It was pretty.

24:46 Launching because both both, I don't even call them, parents, both people, whose house I was born into, we're perpetrators and I was a child living in the house. So I didn't have anyone to turn to for help, and I was told that that's what love was. There was no, that was not part of that was cruelty and rape is what it was. So one of my main focus is right now in my life is I can

25:21 I can survive.

25:24 But I don't get to suffer anymore.

25:27 Quite a challenge in. But the more I'm allowing that to happen.

25:35 And I have to say it out loud as a constant affirmation. So I'll get hurt. Someone will do something, and I'm hurt by it or it affects me in a painful way. Like I have to remind myself, I no longer have to suffer or have to suffer in pain is part of it. You know, the only way out is through, I've had to go back on our religious and spiritual life. I've had to go back through so much pain throughout my life, 370 on, and my 74th year and

26:11 I hate that part. I hate that. The only way out is through it does doesn't go away. I'm a long time in 12-step recovery. Am what is it? Now 51 years clean and 37 sober and boy talk about pain when I got sober and it was gradual. But first no more drugs no more. No more cigarettes, then no more alcohol than no more sugar than no more sleeping with someone else's wife.

26:47 Relationships work, everything. And I can make everything work to take away pain, right?

26:57 But I don't have to suffer anymore and I'm not perfect at it, but I'm getting better. So, I think I think it's really important. I didn't realize I was still addicted to suffering and I'm like, what, what should be done with unavailable abusive?

27:26 I don't do mean anymore. Let me tell you the other day. It was a woman at the doctor's office. He's mean to me every time I talk to her and I reported it again, giving myself a voice. That's my job, right? As a Survivor, and you know, how to become an HR issue. Cuz, you know, I'm not the only one she's been mean to, but I said, I don't do mean. I don't have people in my life like that anymore, right? That's part of the deal. I still wiggle astalavista audio so much more than to have to suffer continuously at the hands of people who don't know us nor care to know us or our stories or people who do and still hurt us in knowing.

28:16 I think something that

28:21 Is so interesting is that we both got him losing my train of thought.

28:28 I, I think it's so interesting that we both in spite.

28:35 Of.

28:37 It's right on the tip of my time losing weight on it. So, I'm sorry, it'll come back.

28:48 I guess I'll move to the next thing. I wanted to talk about and hopefully Circle back to what I thought what my thought was sparked by what you said. But oh, yes, it's that. I think it's so interesting. Even though we both have done these big projects in a writing books, writing scripts producing directing running nonprofits. The things that we've done where people might look at us and say, like, wow, that's a successful person. I don't know if you've experienced this before me in spite of

29:27 Having those moments of visible success. I still find it. Deeply hard to get out of bed. Some days. I find a deeply hard to answer emails. I am constantly afraid of being harmed. I feel like sometimes that I live in fear. And I think that those are the non-visible non-glamorous part of being someone who has turned their pain into power is that it's not always powerful at least for me I constantly and like I can go speak on CNN, but I can't wake up, is a serious leak at. So I was just wondering if you had similar experiences rooted in your trauma. Absolutely. I can live. Can live in work all over the world and I lived in Africa and the room of village with the luo try for three months. I can lecture to a room, a 1,500 people.

30:25 But to speak up for myself, or ask for help is always a challenge. Cool. I was walking in in the village the other day and there's a sign on a on a telephone post and it said, stop being afraid.

30:42 And I said, I'm going to take that.

30:46 Cuz I'm not just afraid I go catastrophic. I don't care if it's about an email or a date or or item or something. I'm I am immediately too. I'm going to die. I'm going to be here.

31:03 It's that severe. And I finally have accepted that, and, and forgive myself over and over again. So yeah, you know, depression.

31:15 Sadness.

31:18 Heart heart. Heart break is a real common feeling. For me. My worst nightmare emotion is anticipation because I was tortured so much and threatened so much that it's like a god, I am not good at waiting at this point. I'm like deer in the headlights. Right? Right. Just just tell me, just let it happen. I can't wait for it. I agree. I agree the other day at my house. We thought we might have had an intruder because we found windows open and it was just a very, very strange situation that we came into and my immediate thought was that's my perpetrator. He has finally found where I live and he is, he's going to kill me and I'm going to die. Of course, I am here and everything is okay. And I am not going to die.

32:18 But I think what people don't realize is that that abuse whether happened 10 years ago or five minutes ago, it makes you feel like you are going to be victimized again in the next second, every second. And that's a terrifying thing to have to live with. I'm sorry that you have to still feel that. You know, really am I want to say how grateful I am for the opportunity.

32:49 To have this conversation with storycorps and have a chance, to be honest, and open and take a risk of being vulnerable about being queer, being a Survivor. And the more we all talked about it, the more we don't hide. The more we don't give ourselves away. You know, it's going to be a better place in the world. So, you know, thank you and God bless both of you and I think that

33:19 To ask how you got to keep talking to each other. Keep walking. I keep telling our stories, you know, by the pain that make ironically has been up a big time for me. I've got three new scripts, one called Benghazi, you know, the Ambassador that was killed there. It was a male homosexual. There has to be some underlying information. They're right in Libya. Otherwise about the murder of the two, female astronauts on the shuttle disaster. They knew it wasn't going to work. It was murdered right Reagan. And NASA went ahead. Cuz Reagan wanted to give the speech. So that's another my new scripts. And another one is about 10. Lesbian nurses in the Vietnam War.

34:07 That's my apology to Vietnam for what our country did. So we got to keep keep doing the important work, you're doing way. I can. So excited about working with you to do a scripted reading up at the Westport Community country, Play House of special and really honor you and your work in the work that TC is doing and thank you for this opportunity.

34:28 I'm so,

34:31 So happy to have been able to meet you. I think it was funny that we we met very randomly, but it seemed very specifically purposeful. And I'm so glad that we've been able to share our own experiences. I think, you know, in spite of everything that has happened to me, in spite of everything that has happened to us. I think we have shown that, you know, beautiful powerful, truthful reclama Tori Unapologetic. Things can be created in spite of and because of and, you know, in addition to the hard things we've had to live through and, you know, I'm, I'm just very proud to be able to share those things with the world and with you. And so, I'm very grateful for this conversation and thank you for thank you for joining me today. Also want to say,

35:32 Blessings and so much love to all of the people who did not make it to people who have been killed, all of the people who have been murdered. All of the people who have are still being hurt. And I pray for you and I send you blessings and a lot of love and a lot of you and white healing light and and say don't give up, don't give up. And those of you who have passed, you're still in our hearts.

36:07 Let's hope Facebook.