Tishana Trainor and L’Erin Asantewaa

00:00 Today is September 19th. My name is Lauren. Asantewa. I'm 31 years old today is September 18th 2010 were in Atlanta and my relationship to my partner is she's my friend. My name is Shana trainer. I am 34 years old today is September 18th 2010. We are in Atlanta Georgia and my relationship to my partner today is we are friends.

00:35 So tashana tell me about yourself.

00:42 How do you identify in terms of gender and sexuality identify as a lesbian?

00:49 Black lesbian. I don't know today's atmosphere feel so strange. I have no problem simply identifier and identifying as queer and I know a lot of people have problems especially because I do have children and I know at one time I did identify a straight. But again that was like an issue with me covering up my sexuality, but I do I identify as a lesbian.

01:15 How does having children relate to your sexual identity? I'm a lesbian mom. I'm a mom first to me. I know other people have problems with it, but I'm a mom that happens to be a lesbian. Would you be willing to share a story with us about how you first came into your lesbian lesbian identity was this after you had already had children slightly inappropriate when I was little, you know, how every little every song when we were little was about women and everything like that and I always thought it was really interested in a lot of songs were about women. So we would hear like songs like the Morris Day and The Time fishnet black pantyhose.

02:10 My God, like I would imagine it's a woman with these legs like amazing to have a woman with these legs in these fishnet pantyhose. I cannot wait to see a woman in some fishnet pantyhose or like the bar just be my lady. Like, I want a lady like I would say that to my mom like Mama. I want a lady and she was saying no honey supposed to have a man.

02:36 But you know what, you know you get when your little those type of things are kind of Beatdown and you know, baby you supposed to have a man you supposed to have a husband and I guess I just kind of like why did it down? Like, all right, I guess I'm supposed to have a husband. I'm supposed to have a man, but I want to be a lady especially one with some fishnet panty. How old were you when you were having these ideas?

03:03 Okay, I'll look. I don't have a dream that I was he a lady with some fishnet black pantyhose on with the big leg showing through the whole thing is very descriptive and it really helps with the

03:15 Mac

03:16 Okay, I'm slightly embarrassed. All right, it is. Okay. We all have stories and so the older you got did you follow that desire to be with women or do your attraction to women?

03:34 Faking like in guys. It was a lot easier to like guys cuz everybody was like and he's so cute and it was like, oh sure if I say she's cute and what do you mean she's cute, but if I was like, oh, yeah, he's cute too. It was like more like a I could blend in but

03:54 I didn't I didn't like any of the guys and some of the guys if if I can relate to them on a friend level I could say yeah sure. He's cute too. It was more like I believe it to be the guys on a friendly level even even my ex-husband. We related to each other on a friend level more so than a romantic level. I just decided to have a romantic relationship with him because we were very good friends and it was just easier for me because we had that connection. It was more like a sure why not we can we can go ahead and do that. Why not? He's at he's a good friend I actually was

04:30 I actually like the couple of the girls in my high school back then but I wasn't really that attracted to my ex-husband is just was that much easier to just be with him because number one of my friends like them. I didn't have to worry about you know, being embarrassed about being stolen away from me because that was a lot of that going around a lot of songs at that time. I'll take your man and embarrassing thing in the world that only you know, cuz then I knew I wouldn't fight back cuz I was like him in the first place but it wasn't my school and everybody hated her so much for no reason and I was like, I don't understand why everybody feels this way towards her and I tried to befriend her never liked if your friends were hurting too and I was like to be such a big deal, but 1992 and 1991 was not the atmosphere in Atlanta, Georgia for that type of deal.

05:25 So

05:27 It wasn't like I was like brushing her off or anything that I talked to her was just kind of like everybody kind of raise their eyebrows at me when I did.

05:35 So you so your ex-husband in you met in high school and then you got married soon there after I graduated in 94. I have my daughter that year to I graduated with a big old belly and in my son while graduated 94, we got married in 95 and I have my son at 96th and then how long before you were like actually am going to live as a lesbian. We split up in 2002 and I just thought came out the next year. I was like, that's it. I'm done. I was done. You know, I was like I gave up a life that I wanted to live to be your woman. I put a life aside. I Was Your Woman I want you want me to be your wife you wanted me to be whatever you need me to be you wanted me to be at your mama's house. You wanted me to keep my hair done a certain way. You wanted me to keep the house for me to keep the kids. You wanted me to?

06:35 You get through school. I did everything to be your down ass woman and you couldn't reciprocate when I was ready to go to school you cheated on me. You did everything you wanted to do and I couldn't get that type of reciprocation from you to be for you to be my down ass man. You stepped out on me. That's it. I was like, yeah, I'm ready to live my life and it was my gosh. It was so liberating even so much that I needed to be in a relationship for it to feel validated. It was more along the lines of just coming out. It wasn't like I was coming out to be with anybody either. I just was ready to just come out share about your coming out process. Like how did that happen?

07:09 I slept with a woman in 2000 while I was still married, which I know is highly inappropriate scandalous in the South butt and a couple of other women after my ex-husband was in jail at the time and you know, I just had all this time on my hands and freedom. I was also I was working but you know, I had that I wasn't with anybody at the time and then we split up I was I wasn't really dating but it was more like I just need to get myself out there. I didn't know how I was reading all these books and I have plenty of books in the gay and lesbian sex our read them really silently and kind of keeping to myself and only read them at the bookstore kind of like take the book and go to a different section like science fiction and kind of like put them in another book and just look at them real careful like this and then close them and take them back over to that section of sliding back and they're perfectly and then like run run run and leave the bookstore and then go back the next day and do the same thing in a different section source of nobody would know. I was reading the same book and stuff like that and then eventually by the book

08:10 And then it then I work my way into going to Charis bookstore and I was like, so you're not about that. So you think you're a lesbian or so you want to be a lesbian book and I was like, I didn't know that book was a joke. I thought that book was like seriously. Okay. So this is how I have to dress and solve it to my stud phazyme, but I did all this in like a year, right?

08:31 It's funny now, but I was like, I don't do that chicken up the

08:35 But it was a bit in and then I had to eventually like tell people that I actually still have like all my journals and on my list of is like almost like a spreadsheet. I'm also a Virgo so, you know, I'm very organized right? So I have the list of names and everybody's name how I told them like if I told him by phone or if I told him face-to-face I told him in a message and then their reaction and in my reaction to their reactions, like a smiley face in the smiley face or ass like a unhappy face and a and a happy face.

09:07 These are so you are documenting your reaction their reaction photo and how have you told them? I was documenting their name how I told them their reaction and in my reaction to their reaction and then like all my journal entries and all that other stuff like it was it was the last person I told like was more like my brother. He's like really homophobic.

09:31 Call Val.

09:36 Still now.

09:38 I've been trying to figure out if it's really so much him being homophobic as being being sensitive.

09:46 Cuz

09:48 Is interesting trying to hear my mom try to explain why he is the way he is and I've always wondered if my mom just favors him or if it's me being really sensitive about it, cuz it's also the same way in my family with other things like me eating meat everybody thinks it's really funny when people say I'm a put some beef in your food even though I'm allergic to be like all to shine and you know, he would never do anything like that like hahaha. I'm a snake a man into your house ain't funny. But you know, he wouldn't do anything like that. But why is it why is it okay for y'all to laugh at that? And I feel threatened like that's not funny at all, you know, or you just need some dick in your life Google but we supposed to you know, stuff like that. That's that's not funny to me, you know, and he he feels home. He feels homophobic my stuff like that because for the longest time he was riding Marta and he's a lot of gay guys with hit on him.

10:39 I'm like, but you didn't have to react to that. Nobody told you that you needed to react to that and why should you feel like you need to react like that react to that react according to that towards me. I'm your sister you wrap your whole life with me. I'm not going to hit on you. What does that have to do with you and me? I'm I'm still the same the same little girl you grew up with you watch me your whole life. There's nothing that's changed about me. We still have the same genetic makeup. What's going to change about you and me now because of who I choose love what what changes about you the change about me what you might feel like you might be attracted to a man and it would that be so bad, you know what I'm saying? And that's what I've always wondered in between him and my mom their reactions my mom.

11:26 My mom's reaction was the most. Okay. So I'mma tell you that that's a story. Okay, so we were sitting on the porch and my mom was talking about Bishop Eddie Long, you know Bishop Eddie long as it is long history about how he feels about homosexuals and we were talking about something that happened at New Birth Church, excuse me, and I was like, well, you know, I really don't understand why his hatred towards you no homo sexuals has come so far and I was still using the word homosexual. I didn't want to be like family yet. I didn't want to say that yet. I wasn't that comfortable with my mom to use that term yet. And she was like, you know, what's up with you and using this term so much. I hear the word homosexual come out your mouth every other term every other work coming out your mouth. Are you homosexual? Do you think that you're like, I was like, yes mam. Yes. Yes. I am homosexual. Would that be so bad? She was like, you're not a homosexual to Shawnee. Just going through a tough time. You just got your going through a divorce. You know, you probably just feel alone.

12:26 I know baby. You just cut your hair and you're growing Locs and you think your homosexual this is not how things are. This is just a tough time for you right now is like no mama. I like women. I have always loved women. This is how things work for me. I feel so free. I feel so good. I started crying. I was like, why don't you see me for who I am. She was like to Shawna.

12:47 Everybody kisses girls every once in awhile every body kissing girls every once in awhile to Shana its practice.

13:00 Everybody kisses girls. You don't have to marry him. You don't have to stay with them.

13:08 Girl, the tears went back up in my eyes.

13:13 I was like

13:21 Did you think it was funny? I didn't know what to think. I was I was shocked that I was like well.

13:29 I mean, I was really just like dumbfounded I was like oh and if you call my daddy your daughter has lost her mind. She told me she gave you need to come get her right now. She was like really drinking a lot back then she's so you know, she's in that moment, but my parents are alcoholics, which is why I don't drink cuz I'm scared. I don't want to be an alcoholic again.

13:48 I do like you need to come get your daughter. She's crazy. She's she's talking about she's gay and bubble by my dad came home. She was like, he was like this. I know you're not crazy. It's okay. If you're gay, I still love you. You know, we've always had you know, we talked about that too. And it's not like he's 100% sold on it either but you know, we talked at least you know, what like you're crazy or anything like that. But yeah, she threw me for a loop with that when I told my sister, I believe her mama just said she was upstairs. She's a she's a registered nurse that she was upstairs when me and my mom were talking about this on the porch. She was like, well, I'll never tell Mom that I'm bisexual.

14:22 I was like, you know what? I don't really use the support. I could have really used saying something to that effect while I was you know, you could have held my hand and you wouldn't have to say anything. Did you know your sister is bisexual but I mean it is amazing that you know, me and my sister and my brothers won't two of my brothers. I have three brothers and one sister. We all know this about each other but we may get sky like we've excuse food at my mother and my brother because of their reactions to things and if we had included them on these things it wouldn't have been so much of a a shock or so much of a reaction. We wouldn't have to be so fearful of their reactions towards how we feel about things and and it wouldn't be so painful. I wouldn't have that. I wouldn't have to feel so sensitive about it. I wouldn't have to be like I'm gay but I don't want to tell my mama or my brother. So I just I just wish that we had always been that open with them all the time. How did your other brothers react they already knew, I mean it I didn't really have that was

15:22 I'm not surprised.

15:24 My younger brother he was like so that those they just didn't seem like that big a deal but that means it with our children. So it's so there's this area. I have a theory about I'm one and then I have a brother that's number three and I have a theory the youngest brother's number 5. So where the children and we all get along really? Well my sister she's number to and my brother that I don't get along very well with his number for another even number children are weird. So I think that bad children are odd and we think that even children are weird. So that's probably why we don't get along either but so once you came out to your family, how did you decide to come out to your children? And how did you go about doing that?

16:06 They already knew that something was going on between me and my cousin and are you are we're divorcing him that we were splitting and I just sat them down and I was like, you know, Mom, I think I want to date women.

16:20 Remember my daughter was like you mean like lesbians and I was like, yeah, so I think so. I think I want to be in a relationship with women now in my my daughter was like are we going to go get ice cream is like like it was no big deal to her and my son was like he was like five and he was like

16:42 Do I have to leave too and I was like, what do you mean he was like this? You don't like I don't like boys anymore. And I was like, I like boys. I mean boys are cool. You're cool kid even like but do I have to leave too and I was like, no you my son. He was like does that mean all boys like like I can't come in the house anymore and I was like, no baby you my baby is is this no I don't I don't want to marry anymore guys. I don't want to marry you anymore. He was like we can't get married and I was like, maybe we can get married. Anyway, he was like

17:15 Oh, oh, oh.

17:21 Oh baby was fine. After that. He was I guess he thought we was going to get married at some point. I was like no. No baby. We're but he really thought that he was going to have to leave to it. Then I was like, oh my baby. He was glad to leave to the bit after that. That was fine. Always check in with them. Like like I feel okay with mommy being gay and this is it still. Okay, like I still need that sounds like that validation everything flickers y'all getting teased at school or anything like that. And then and we live in Decatur like it's not that big a deal, but I know they're still cool with his father now, but they're still cool and Sean's 14 now and they're still there still cool. I mean, I'm a relationship kind of now and everything still good. I mean I've been in relationships. I've been in living relationships with my girlfriends of live with me and this is still being just as cool. It's not that

18:21 I deal with them is no different is no different than what I don't know. I can't say it's no different than if a man lives with me cuz I don't know that aside from their father. No other man is live with me like that, but it is really is.

18:33 The same thing as being in a relationship with somebody else. I mean, this is us a relationship. There are two adults in the fit in the house and their two children in the house and there's still that Dynamic of there's another adult in this house for you to respect so besides and that person not being a biological relative there. They still have to be very respectful and mindful of the other person in the house, which is still brings a different Dynamic to the house that person is a female but

19:00 I think it's is a very healthy thing. So they haven't had how their experiences been with their peers knowing that their mom is lesbian have they had any conflict with them or any I haven't there been any come out? Like I said, I asked him I check in with them. I haven't heard of any conflict in particular, but I asked

19:20 Not that I know of but like they we live in Decatur or a lot of their friends have gay and lesbian parents as well. So I'm guessing is, and the gator or not that I know of. My daughter's best friend.

19:39 Her mom is not a lesbian but lives alone cuz it's just another single parent household. Just like mine. I don't live with my the person. I'm in a relationship now, but

19:50 We're both single parents. She and I so I don't know but my son his friend his best friend. What is raised by two gay men?

20:01 And so there were a lot of similarities in the last relationship that I was in but other than that there was no difference. This good life is good.

20:12 That's it.

20:15 I'm growing up what role did religion or spirituality play in your family's understanding and sexuality. That's a good question. We didn't really have that much religion in my house is far from the obligatory Christmas and Easter and going to church. I feel like my parents just showed me in our grandma's house and she made us go to church on Sunday. Like, it's Sunday. Come on Skull Church, or they were Church playing on the radio in New York. They play radio while they do it here too. But you had to listen to if we didn't go to church. It had to be on the radio.

20:47 Which was not a kind of you tune it out. I don't know to me. I just turned it out. It was a moment when my dad was a Buddhist and like I said, we just went on Easter and Christmas, but that was it and really didn't even hear much talk about God unless it was oh my God or Jesus Christ. I mean if I left home then I was at my family went to church. Maybe I drove them to church when I got pregnant and I don't know outside of church and religion and spirituality. Did you get any other messages for about being gay or gay people in general from your family my family there just didn't seem to be any gay people in my family was just in my family that nobody ever talked about

21:38 It was never like when I said like when I was little when I said that I want to lady or stuff like that. My mom never said no. No God didn't make it. That way was more like a no honey. You don't do that. It wasn't like no. God said you can't do that was more like a you just don't do that. It was never because God said so

21:56 Has more like a social understanding not a religion or religious thing at all. Did you think your family was going to react with specific kind of way when you told him that you were lesbian?

22:09 No.

22:11 No, not that I didn't know what to expect which is why I was I was ready to go gung-ho I was I was ready to just put out an all-points bulletin like everybody meet me at the auditorium down to meet me at the Civic Center. Like you said tell the whole family like just make this big print out like let's have a family reunions and just like I have an announcement to make I'm gay. Like, I really wanted to do it that way, but I was like

22:35 Mad. Just tell him about 1 because and 2 since I had decided to come out my family had begun like another spiritual. I had begun their spirituality. Like I said after I moved out me and he wasn't my ex. He wasn't my husband. He was my ex-husband at the time while he was playing with my daughter and then my husband and I got married when I Was Eighteen so after that's when my family was really into the church and was volunteering at the church and everybody in the house was in the choir or something like that and I was like

23:13 What happened? I left home and now y'all all in the Jesus and what what what is it my fault that I drive you all to Jesus what so maybe maybe there was some sort on the time but it and then never change anything in me. I mean, I never really felt this this strong pull into the church myself, but they probably I probably did. I'm trying to remember how I felt back then.

23:38 Probably

23:40 And they're there with that. They were a lot more Church going people back then and then still are in some ways though. I probably did feel a lot more like they would take more of a a Christian stance on.

23:56 So for you now what role does religion or spirituality play in the way you think about sex and sexuality doesn't never really has on Buddhist but it doesn't I just love is love it always has been for me and I'm grateful that I didn't have so much of a religious beat down when I was little to tell me how to love people because I feel like it is cut my mind open to 2 how I want to love and how I want to be loved and how you know, I want to share that love with other people and I don't have to have such a like a a rigid guideline as to how this needs to happen in order for me to receive gifts or how to do this and I don't have to have like, there's no set path on how to do it. It's going to I'm going to get there in the path is how it's just going to be as opposed to this is the way to do it. And this is how it's going to be said so spirituality that there's a big difference between

24:56 Quality in religion and I still think people need to see that but I don't think a lot of people do but for me, my spirituality love is my spirituality.

25:06 So that that that's it.

25:10 So outside of the one woman in high school who was gay that no one wanted you be friends with where there any other people around you that you thought were gay that you thought might have been gay.

25:24 Do you have any?

25:26 Point of reference for gay people

25:30 Outside of what? I mean? We were in Atlanta. What does that mean?

25:38 We have pride Atlanta Pride here in Atlanta black pride here in I would try to go to those type of its kind of like on the slide or like try to be downtown during those type of events or try to be in close Piedmont Park. Just so happen to be close to Piedmont Park during Labor Day weekend, you know, like maybe I just so happened want to go to the Starbucks that just happened to be close to Piedmont Park during those types of events. Cuz I worked at the I worked for BellSouth during during my coming-out era. How long was the era from 2002 to 2003 when I actually did come out so I have been trying to go to

26:27 Tried all those times and actually finally did in 2003 was my actual first Pride season. So I kept trying to cope with just hanging out. There were a couple of people at work that weren't jumping on BlackPlanet and jumping on some sites on a couple of natural hair care sites when I decide to chop all my hair off and I don't know the internet was really good a good nice resource in a little chat rooms and stuff like that though. They are really seedy. They really weren't that far from it back then but you know, I was a lot more naive backed into

27:07 I'm trying to think how did I meet people just going to clubs and stuff and my sisters room wasn't that far? From where I lived back then I would try to sneak over there and just kind of just pretend to be going to Dairy Queen at the time and what's my sister's from my sister's room with a lesbian bar / club that was in the downtown Decatur area, but is now in East Atlanta.

27:32 Okay, so I put on really really baggy pants cuz I was like I thought I had to be a stud right this is during my face and I'm really really baggy pants and I haven't like this just regular t-shirt and and a hat on a baseball cap cuz I could have not had my hair really short, like yours and no more light and I was walking to Dairy Queen was like

28:02 I'm going my sister my sister from the night. I'm going to call Mike at my kids are at my cousin's mom's house for the weekend and we were still together. So it wasn't like yeah, he was I don't know where he was. I didn't care where he was. He was out somewhere wining and dining somebody we were like already decided we were going to split I was like I'm going to go and if I don't go Imma have me some ice cream.

28:23 So I was like, you know what? I mean Oasis look like toes and tell her what to do to myself. I'm going in this club. So I started walking up there and hand started getting sweaty. I was like just going to go and I'm just going to have a beer. I'm just going in there for a beer and I don't need anybody. Everybody know my face. I'll be like, hey girl. What's your name? My name is Shana and no no no, no. No, that's not what you're going to say. Hey, how you doing? Okay, so it takes like 5 minutes away from my house to wear. My sister's room was so all this was like running through my mind. I'm crossing the train tracks and I get over there and the line is starting to form for all the people that are starting to like mill in and out and I get over there and I'll walk right past everybody and go straight to Dairy Queen and I have me ice cream.

29:19 And I sit there and I'm like

29:22 Coward you're a coward is ice cream one ice cream and just walk back over there. So I'll just throw down ice cream. I ate half the ice cream and my stomach is starting to hurt and I was like toast and tolerant. Why did you eat ice cream? I would like to get it. I really want to be your I'm going in there and have a beer so I started to walk over there and he'll see a whole bunch of people leaving and I was like, oh gosh, that sounds like I am going and I was like you stupid but if you have to pay the cover you just paid for ice cream. There's like Thursday night. There's like no cover, right? So I was like, I'm woke up and I'm just going to go and I'm still have a beard. That's all I'm going to do.

30:05 And I walked right past my way home. I did I did that like 15 times. I did that on 15 separate occasions. When I finally did go in there to people like aren't you the person that walks a lot and I finally just went in there and had a beer. Did you talk to anybody I did but that was like it was more like I waited for somebody to talk to because I was so nervous nervous. Oh my God. I was so nervous. When were you nervous about just I was scared. I was going to say something cheesy like hey, my name is shut up.

30:43 Like a baby. My name is a shot. I'm a Virgo. I don't want to be that Courtney girl, but I was I was kind of that Courtney girl. It was it was fun. No looking back.

31:02 Okay, so, okay, so I had bread and all these books about the stud fem ethic where fans were women that dress more feminine and dress more and dresses and studs were more women to dress more like masculine and you know didn't dress and dresses and wore short hair more masculine like type of dress. So I thought in order to get the girly girls that dress more friend like I had to dress like a stud. I had no idea that Femmes like Femmes and studs like studs. I didn't know anyting about the stud fem Dynamic and roles of women who didn't do rolls and I was just going by what I read on the internet and what I read and books so I dressed like a man. Like I had the Batman fact I borrowed a lot of my ex-husband's clothes. I wore some of his baggy pants out except his boxers. It'll some of his baggy shirts. I didn't want his cologne a couple times.

32:02 I have pictures I have to tell you have a short back then.

32:15 What kind of deep in my voice a little bit so I'll talk like this a lot?

32:22 Look at your face is great right now.

32:25 I just never seen this part of you before I can't imagine what your voice before I was like, this is why I am not about to pretend to be somebody else. I'm pretending to be straight for so long. I was just like I'm just going to address it was it was really shorten funny and I was like it was over and so do you have a specific way of identifying yourself now? No, I don't. I don't I don't do the roles thing. I didn't even know that you couldn't I didn't because I didn't know that you couldn't I didn't know that there was a I thought you had to play the roles in order to be in the life as I've seen in books or you know that term in the life or to be, you know, you know in the community. I thought you had to do that and I just decided to not play A Part.

33:16 Newest is like I'm just going to be who I am or was one of my ex-girlfriends put unclassified. Do we need any more boxes? We don't need any more labels or any more boxes stuff. So now can you share a story about how you met your first girlfriend?

33:35 I used to go to tracks Remember to Remember tax. Will you tell us a text? Okay tracks was this club on Marietta Street? Where is Centennial Olympic Park is closed where we're actually it is where Georgia Aquarium is now probably where the whale the float is where we used to dance and we can get in for free on Tuesdays and that's where I used to go but it was like Sunday at Lou's days and just to dance and I just happened to go with I don't remember who I was hanging with but I just happened to go and dance a lot and I saw this girl and she was arguing with her girlfriend behind me in the line cuz the line was so long if you didn't

34:28 Just to get in if you wanted to wait and she was like, how about your phone? And I was like sure so she brought my phone to call this girl and the girl called back on my phone and I was like drama so you can you not talk for a long time cuz prepaid you know who that was back in the day when everybody had free faithful and then I saw her like we went inside and I was like you need to dance. So we're having a dance and it was like No Strings that I didn't really think she was that cute but I wasn't really looking for anybody. We just happen to be dancing and I just was not looking for anybody. I was just chilling out and I had to have that talk with my mom not that long before that and I was still kind of stressed out about that and I have been laid off from work. I just really wanted to dance and and then a couple of weeks later I saw her again and I was like, hey remember we were talking on my phone and blah blah blah and she was like it was like we should hang out and it was like it was just really relaxed and I gave her my number and she called me back and we hung out and then

35:29 I don't like we should hang out some more you want to hang out you want to go to I like to hang out at the bookstore a lot. Don't think you're going to go to borders and she was like, why would you hang out at a bookstore? And I was like, all right. So you want me to tracks again or something like that or you want to go get something to eat? And she was like, I guess I didn't know how old she was and she was really going to I was 26 at the time and she was 21. She had just turned 21 like the day before I met her I saw her again and I hadn't realized that's why she didn't want to hang out at a bookstore and we hung out so much that we started dating and it was more like a falling into a relationship type thing. It wasn't me no clear boundaries or anything like that, which was one of those lessons that I needed to learn about lesbian relationships. They need to be clear boundaries The Laughing Gas relationships in general not even exactly lesbian relationships.

36:17 But yeah, that was that was a good one.

36:21 Good sex is cuz I want to text. So what would you say to a person as they prepare to come out to their family be honest and be mindful of the person that you're telling?

36:38 And do not be explicit. Not that I was but just don't know just be mindful of the type of person that did somebody that I would say just be

36:58 Be gentle because I mean we your parents weren't raised the way that you were raised. I know that you know, we're raising his culture where we think that we can just be told anything like Mama. I'm bumping uglies with such and such and such and such a but you know people that people were raised differently. I know my mom was raised in the sixties in the seventies and she's might not be ready to hear everything even though you know, it seems like she's absorbent as media culture just as I am right now, she's hearing it a different way because of how she was raised as opposed to how I'm an observant or even as opposed to how my daughter is absorbing it right now. My daughter ain't even really here and what's going on right now and can seemingly accept everything while I can't and while my mother can't even more so just be mindful of the audience that that your voice in your voice to that's all and be honest and be gentle with yourself because it's not an easy process is not take your time.

37:52 On the flip side of that moment you say to a family member who is about to learn that another family member is gay or lesbian or queer be open-minded and and and realize that just because your child or family member is gay doesn't make you gay and it doesn't mean that you have to partake in what that person is going through and to also be gentle with that person and and and don't stop trying that everybody can throw Bible at everybody and God said and got seven guys it cuz God didn't say what that person would not exist.

38:24 There is there is room for multiplicity and Humanity.

38:30 And love love love love love and hugs and tears and hugs. What's the biggest lesson you've learned from this journey of your sexual at Adventure that I was right all along that. I wanted a lady with some fishnet black.

38:51 When I get home, I need to buy some fishnet pantyhose and what has surprised you the most the most.

39:08 I don't know probably my growth cuz I always thought I was going to be like the scared little person all the time and always be no been to just give in to what other people wanted me to do. I figured I'd be in my Super Target going straight here wearin. I'm going to be this man's wife for the rest of his life type of deal and and and I'm not anymore and I thought I'd always Keno placating to what my parents expected of me and I'm living my life the way I want. I'm writing my own script now, so that's that's good as opposed to live in by somebody else's standards. Thank you to Shawna thank-you. Lahren appreciate it.