Ekkerhart Rausch and Frederic Bien

00:02 Hello, my name is Fredrick be in I'm 56 years old today is Tuesday, May 8th 2018. We are Atlanta History Center, and I'm here with my friend eckhart's Rauch.

00:17 Hello, my name is Akash. I'm 74 years old. Today is Tuesday, May 8th 2018. We're here at the Atlanta History Center, and I'm here with my friend and neighbor a Frederic bien.

00:33 All right. So aching Hearts, how are you today? Fine? Thank you. Do you remember how we first met about a year ago? Yes you I was in the backyard and you came up to me and said your fence is on my land and does so I immediately hustled and and and I try to correct that situation so that the fence is now placed over on my side again and everything. All of this problem was resolved amicably and too. So we're now friends and the best neighbors, correct? And I want to thank you again for being so graceful about resolving that issue and I was purchasing a house right now live because you could have been the headache the people who were involved with me the purchase of the house. It was going to be a setback for a few months and they were amazed.

01:33 As we were able to resolve it amicably and quickly so that everything proceeded on time. Well, I'm I was pleased to do it for you. Thank you. And so then we we discovered that we had actually quite a few things in common and you particularly we both like science. We both had doctorate in science and Technologies, and I think there was a common points of interest.

02:02 And on top of that we are so bill came from Europe. So did you want to talk about how you felt when you discovered that it with me? And well, we started talking about our backgrounds and then I started to mention some of the experiences of my father during the second world war end that that piqued your interest and I thought that it might be worthwhile and a very instructive to relate some of these experiences to people who are listening into this conversation.

02:42 Correct. Yes. It was a very interesting to hear someone that I could relate to, you know, is this similar interest in science, but I should have came from Europe a few years 25 years. So before I came to the US.

03:01 And who had lived a number of stories that I had heard of from my family in Belgium, but yet you were on the other side of the the line I would say in Germany and the way you were talking about. It seems so Humane that it made me feel like you know, that's almost how I always imagined it except I was never hearing from someone who lived their stories. Yes. Well as you probably will aware of the belgians and the Germans were on the opposite side and the Germans did invade Belgium at some point during the war.

03:45 But more so I think it's we should State this right up front. There were probably millions of Germans who did not identify with v and Nazi regime, but they had no choice to go along with the Nazis because if they didn't they would be a hold out of bed at 2 in the morning and you know taken away to a concentration camp and whether they survive that or not would have been up to the people who who are interrogating him and beating them up and etcetera etcetera. So,

04:23 It was imperative that you kept quiet during those times if you didn't feel if you did not have to not see forever. I should say and by my uncle on my mother's side. He decided that he should speak out and when somebody says aren't you going to salute the Nazi flag? And he says no, I'm a free person. They said we'll see about that. And so they came that night and hauled him off and sure enough. He ended up in concentration camp and he he was so he came out again, but he was never really right in his mind after that. So he wasn't Jewish he was not by any means a gypsy or anything like that. He was just a normal person, but he did not understand the seriousness of his offense, even though it was for as far as we're concerned a very minor offense in

05:23 I'm not saluting the flag, right but for the Nazis, that was a big big no, no.

05:30 So I wanted to talk about a little bit about all the experiences. My father went through not just my uncle's doing the War years and

05:44 The two experiences in particular that my father had been one of them that will be very interesting to me and probably two people who are listening into this conversation. One of them was his capture in Normandy. And the other one was his the dentist as a prisoner of war in England. So the capture of Normandy occurred during operation cobra where Montgomery came up came down from the North and the patent came up from the south and is surrounded the whole Army of Germans 150000 men strong.

06:32 And they would be shelling double astellas in a region in France now called fillets and Chamois. So this was soda for the pocket there and the Germans were in the valley and the Allies were around in the hills and there was shelling the Germans with artillery shells that would burst in the air. So my father had no choice basically in order not to get hit he would get underneath a solid oak table.

07:12 Even you know, I don't know how much of a of a safety precaution that was, but at least he was inside a farmhouse and it help him survive and just went on for about 3 days. He wasn't able to eat and he wasn't able to eat or drink or eat actually.

07:33 And that then one day he saw.

07:37 Hey American GI running down from a hill with a white flag and he said to his friend. He says now it's the time that's so let's go with this GI back up and you know, it will be captured and then it's all over for us. And so he ran out and followed the GI with the white flag and so did probably another 12 or so doesn't other Germans now on the way all the sudden his shoelaces became on tighty. He stopped he bent down he tied his shoelaces and at that moment some artillery shell or could have been a mortar round burst right in the middle of all of these Germans back there was running the pack that was running and someone with

08:37 When did some of them with dead out right but he couldn't stop he just if you would have stopped and got knows that would have been maybe another shell coming in right after that. And so he kept on running and up the hill and he was captured by the American about American GI and later on he was in transfer from that from their two rulers a ruler in Scotland. So this was right around 1945 then after the department is that actually before 19? I was in the fall. I think of 1944. I see 44DD right? I see right after D-Day interesting.

09:30 The crazy part of the story that your father was saved by having to restart his shoelaces. He was he didn't

09:40 You did not get away totally unscathed because when he took off his shirt says it was actually dry to his back and when he examined that they did have a gash in it went to the corpsman to Jura, you know, and they said don't worry about it. It's nothing serious. So he was let go after that.

10:02 Not in wohlers and he ended up in this prisoner of war camp and

10:11 He found out that he was with a whole bunch of Nazis at that time and I would like to Now read from the book and what he actually said, let me just to ask me for people listening to the stories that a child has been telling me for about a year. I have we been striking to me for being so clear so vivid and so I can connect it to the real life people doing work and it's only recently last couple of days that I discovered you had actually a whole book of the stories written by your father that you have to edit and that's right. That's what you would wait from and I had a bound at headed edited. I had to type and edit at the Georgia Tech and bound by National Library Bindery after they fit was gone anyway,

11:07 I would like to read from the book. Now one of the excerpts he says 4 months. I've looked around and found out that the camp the prisoner of war camp that his number was mostly occupied by paratrooper steezo German paratroopers Hitler's most fanatical followers as well as former SS officials who still preached the old gospel of hatred and Germany's final victory.

11:31 Since we were so close to the end of the war. I assume the harsh realities had some sobering effect on their distorted Minds Ono the Western Front was already on the Rhine River and the Russians invaded East Germany, but those guys fantasized about paratroopers coming down like angels to liberate us anyone having doubts was threatened a farmer and father five children, assuming you could speak assuming that he could speak freely was strangled and hung on a tree in the middle of the night. His life was saved only because a camp guard spotted him accidentally in time. So these these were very individuals that you had to fear even in the prisoner of war camp.

12:17 The commander was Furious and close the gates. No food. Nothing at all was admitted until the guilty ones were found 3 paratroopers on the heavy pressure finally turned themselves in and was sentenced to seven years of hard labor.

12:31 I think they should have been shot. But that's my opinion similar cases occur commonly. In other camps with radicals outnumbered the moderates and often ended with murder just listening to the bragging of crimes and Terror turn me off and against my will a deep aversion in Germany in general started rooting in my mind, which many years later became a decisive factor in our to solve to immigrate to the US.

13:01 Interesting food was that experience?

13:06 That give him the resolve to immigrate to the US to set up distance himself from people who might have nice and it turned out that it we ended up in Huntsville, Alabama where the 100 rocket scientist on the banner from Brown and some of these guys were still Nazis.

13:30 Even in a 50 years later and they would start talking about the good old times and bragging again and my father was so disgusted and 8 got together with some of the others and he says okay hunts now, let's stop this. Okay, we've had enough of this we know how good the times we're all the cities got bombed in Germany. And we we had a tough time living after the war these went good times for us. It's interesting that if people would hold on to these beliefs that had caused their own demise their own hardships, but somehow they stood believed in those things. Yes, and so you told me also that

14:17 The time after the world war pretty difficult for you, right? So you were born in 43 right in the middle of the war. But then after the war they were scar city of food sometimes and then the other part is interesting is so sweet that you are not sure if you're going to see your father right because he was held until wet 4748. Actually. The thing is he was held for about three years in England. And when I did see him that was about nineteen forty-seven, so that was four years later and I was of course a very young boy.

14:57 And I when I saw him I said boy, he's a black guy and because he had dark complexion skin complexion and he had black hair.

15:11 And so of course my parents left about that. There was my first time seeing at 4 years old. Yes, but of course, you know that saved his life at one time because one time a Hitler Youth came by and he didn't salute the flag and the end is sixteen-year-old turned around and

15:35 With you know, who was great disrespect asked him about how come you did not salute the flag and my father sends the immediately that he was in danger because this is all he had to do this guy was to go to the secret police and then he would have been turned in. So my father said Italiano Italiano and so they let him go. They said they didn't ask any more question and he got away with that only because his skin was in a very famous Betty was a little bit of a dark dark brown. Dark brown, but light brown colored light and he had black hair laughing about this later on.

16:22 He came close at sea.

16:26 So I was going to ask a little more about you know, when your father came back from Waters and came to Germany. There was another lot of food for me to describe to me in in Germany at a time and he became a bridge-builder. He may be already had been young the world know he

16:53 Well, he studied music at the University in Munich. And when he was inducted they said what did you what did you study music when we don't know what to do with that and it said why we're building the Autobahn so you going to become a civil engineer and help us out and plotting the Autobahn through Germany, which he did and

17:22 One part of the Autobahn he found this little town that he would go there at night in order to have a bed to sleep and get some some food and that's where he met my mother and it was an instant. I should say an instant liking because she was blond and blue-eyed and he was he has black hair and dark and not dark skin like a like a black but that he was going to die. Complexion like that Italian more or less.

17:58 So that's how they met and that's how they ended up getting married. And now when he was a prisoner of war.

18:09 In waters

18:13 They started to let people go in 1946, but he spoke he spoke English very well and that he'd get the translations are between the Germans and the ink the English people. So he was not let go right away, but he had to stay there for another 4 months which of course left him crying. So, but he finally did get out. They transferred him down to Dachau.

18:47 In which was formerly a concentration camp, but it now served as a holding camp for the American Military and what they did was they went through the barracks and interrogated everybody trying to figure out who was an SS guy who wasn't my father of course was not so they let him go.

19:10 And when he finally checked out of the gate at Dachau this is what he said.

19:22 He says

19:25 He received basically a ration card and a little bit of money and he was ushered away as I stood outside the gate an odd feeling overwhelmed me. Did I not dream?

19:42 I can't go on.

19:44 Give me a minute. I'm free.

19:49 I was finally free what do people know about Freedom whenever Salvage confinement. They cannot appreciate the great gift that it is freedom should be loved and very carefully guarded. It is the most precious property of Life blessing which should not be taken for granted on this wintry morning. I wasn't out with His Marvelous gift again, and I lovingly cuddled it in my heart and every fiber of my being

20:18 As beautiful as beautiful words. I didn't know this part of the story actually.

20:25 So that was when he was finally released from the prisoners camp at the end of the War affect a couple of years later, right? And after that then he came home. He came home and we didn't have much food because my mother told me that the food situation was much worse after the war than it was during the war or certainly much better than much worse than before the war. So he raised rabbits.

20:59 In that little town where my mother lives and where she came from it contained about 50 houses and they were only two family names in the whole town and they're all into married and the distilled only about fifty houses for the last time. I look when you're going to take it was actually it was more like close to Bamberg, which is where I was actually born in Bombay, Germany.

21:27 But how are you going to get through these terrible times? And well a lot of it had to do with my mother's Brothers A Day Made a lot of money at that time because they were selling pigs to the farmers and the by the way, everybody got 40 marks German marks to start life had to start over again. And these guys had five thousand bucks within about 5 months rating. So they helped us helped us out considerably which was a huge amount of money at that time.

22:10 And so my father, of course, he couldn't stay forever in this little town where my mother was born. I mean, what should he do? Right and so he looked around for a job. He went back to Munich where he was born.

22:24 And that he found a place which was actually a weekend house outside Munich Before the War people from Munich would go out there and they would have peach trees and plum trees and they would grow rhubarb and all the things that we were growing. And so we had in addition to all the stuff that we were growing. We had also a whole bunch of rabbits 550 rabbits every year and we got one rabbit every weekend to eat her to eat and that's how we managed to get through these tough times. So then my father heard about a job opening from that was from the Americans and they needed somebody

23:23 To help build the Air Force bases with some of the Air Force bases.

23:30 And he started off on that and he didn't realize that was going to be his job for the next 10 years. He says he never would have dreamed in his whole he would have never dreamt in his whole life that this would be his next job for 10 years.

23:45 And so once we once he started to 2/2 a good salary every month and so on we were probably some of the first people in 1954 to go out and buy a folks wagon. Keep in mind. I was only nine years after the war and the folks wagon Factory was already humming and and anyway selling Volkswagens

24:12 And does so.

24:15 We took trips over the Alps down to Italy and we took trips to other parts as well into Austria and to Trier in France.

24:28 And those were some of the great times that I've had but some of the worst times was the school system in Germany, they demanded an enormous amount from you. I mean 11 subjects in 1 week, you know, you have history at Matthew had German you had friends who had that and you had a revision you had PE you had art music and a couple of other subjects that I can't remember right off hand. And so and you have to study for all of these and there wasn't much time left, you know from 3 until 9. So needless to say when my when did the job with the American stopped he had the opportunity to go to Iran or to do something else just wasn't around what time 1950s was 1958.

25:27 And we talked about going to run but my father never felt very comfortable about that. So my my mother's brother came over from the US he emigrated in 1930s to the US before the war before the war. He emigrated in the 1920s to the US if he wasn't lifting Connecticut, he came over and he says why not emigrate to the United States and of course you heard what he said about the Nazis and how he made up made up his mind that he didn't really want to be around Germans that much anymore and so it was an easy decision to make and so we left on the second on the 1st of November. Excuse me, a first of November 1958 to fly to

26:24 New York City and from there. We went to Connecticut Portland, Connecticut. And did you already have a job when you know, so of course the thing was to go down to the New York City and get a job and he had to do manual labor all over again my brother and my father and my mother both of them worked in the factory doing manual labor.

26:53 That went on for maybe a few months.

26:56 Until one day he got a telegram.

27:00 From my mother's cousin

27:03 And that she is I'm sorry. She's my she's my cousin. Actually. She's the daughter of one of my mother's sibling brother of hers.

27:22 And the she said

27:29 I'm sorry, I have to stop again. But she said please call and so he did and she said come on down got a job lined up for you in Huntsville, Alabama with brown engineering company. He went down. He interviewed and got the job.

27:52 And so all of a sudden he ended up being a engineer again.

27:59 And his first job was to build a bridge over the Tennessee River. The reason was that the Huntsville was located right next to the Tennessee River and they needed that water to cool that the test hours for the rocket engines like the Saturn V rocket engines as he and the soda needed huge quantities of water being piped in to cool the deflection plate the otherwise he would have burned up and at this bridge and the next thing you know that he was out of a job again A year later and did some of the people that he got to know helped him.

28:42 And the Iggy finally was able to get a job for the year in the u.s. Army Missile Command in Huntsville, Alabama and then later on for NASA and so he did last thing he made as far as I remember when he worked for NASA was the stand for the Jupiter C missile, which place the first astronaut into orbit around the Earth.

29:14 Interesting into some pretty high-tech work at the end. Yes, and even I worked as a student at for brown engineering to the in the summertime on the Saturn V program. Of course, we would we did some you know, some basically it was

29:37 Just programming in that sort of thing, even though it was the 1919 60s, but they still had rudimentary computers are what we would call it nowadays call rudimentary computers write write a story that struck me that told me before we getting the draft in the US and the fact that you know now in the early sixties you were young men hear you arrive at 15. So, you know, you sent soon turn 18 and there was another War brewing in the US so that the US was fought after the Vietnam War Vietnam University of Alabama getting my time to get my bachelor's degree and they were about the five people in this house that we rent it from some landlord lady.

30:35 And that we were watching Outer Limits and and downstairs in one of the guys that he had. He had a television I didn't and

30:48 And they were talking about the draft and I said, what's the draft?

30:53 And the room became ominously silent after that for at least what looked to me like an eternity and then all of a sudden everybody burst out in laughter and they said oh boy, you don't know what to drive to see better go to the local draft board and register right now. Well, they didn't have computers at that time. Like we do nowadays. They would that's known me from who knows what and all I had was a green card. I wasn't even a citizen of the United States yet, but I did beautifully go to the local draft board and I signed up and since I was overdue you.

31:33 They wanted to draft me immediately to go to Vietnam and my father of course was he was totally upset about that. So he called the senator this I think it was sent it to Sparkman and that time in Alabama one of the two senators and ask him. He says please do something about this because I didn't come to the United States to sacrifice my son in Vietnam.

31:58 And it said the senator then said okay, but he's going to have to go into the service some service. And so they did send me a letter from the local draft board shortly thereafter saying we will prosecute you with the FBI unless you join one of the branches of the Armed Force services immediately and I said, okay, I'm going to have to do something about that right now. So I went to the Army and they said no we don't have any reserve units or you going to have to go in right away. And I knew what that meant that meant going to Vietnam. So I when I didn't want to go to the Marines for sure.

32:37 So finally ended up going to the Navy and they said that we have we have to use naval Reserve and all you have to do is come every Monday for 3 hours and to reserve meeting and then doing the summer you have to go for 2 weeks on on the ship and get your two-week active duty in.

32:59 And then you can go ahead and you can finish your degree, which I did and then applied to the officer candidate School in Newport, Rhode Island.

33:16 And that's when I was accepted. I went to OCS.

33:22 And it's officer candidate school and I became an Ensign on the u.s. Navy Reserve. So basically I had a total time in the US Navy Reserves of 6 years 3 years active duty because and also had to do three years instead of just 2 and the 3 years in In The Navy Reserves while I went to college this run 1963-65 Villa 63 26062 NW and I was on the USS Saratoga aircraft carrier from 66 to 69, but at least I didn't have to go to Vietnam and I made sure that I was going to get Duty in the Mediterranean and I was familiar with some of these places so icy and so we had some very good Beauty and Barcelona in Palma Mallorca. We went to too long and that we went to Naples and we went to Athens Greece.

34:20 Etcetera etcetera a different view of Europe, I guess different view join the Navy and see the world that says well, I sell at least part of the world and it was very good. My father said that wasn't a tour of Duty that was a vacation and I said, yes, I was on the cruise liner with an airport on top.

34:44 So I guess who the story is?

34:48 You know it we hear the

34:51 The wonderful Adventure proves that his life but it should have been for some time to do things. We don't want to do having to survive being misunderstood also by other people who were things we are supporting a cause that's a boring. But actually we were just trying to survive and now, you know on top of that, you know that fast forwarding to the story you've been asked to go to very good school after for grad school to Georgia Tech went to Georgia Tech and got a got a master's in a PhD in physics and then you you went out to a whole life career in research.

35:33 And Science and now you have two grown kids of your own and that when recently got married and when is essentially married and so is what are the the reflections that you think about looking back? It's all of this.

35:56 I think that.

36:00 The main idea that I took away from my father's book.

36:06 And even I had a similar situation happened to me, which I can go into a little bit more detail in just a minute. But the main idea that I took away was that the always true believers in this world true believers who are brainwashed and they think this is the way the world should be like the Nazis and

36:32 And if they think that you're an undesirable they will they will have no qualms in in killing you and getting rid of you.

36:44 I was I encountered some of that even in Huntsville, Alabama. I went over to one of my friends house and the mother came out and she was raving on about blacks having different bone structure. And I said, I don't think they have a different bone start. I think they're human beings like we are and immediately she turned around and she said are you a Niger lover? And I said, no, I I don't love the blacks, but I think they should have the same opportunities as we have. You know, I have nothing against them going to the same grocery store getting the hair cut from the same Barb etcetera etcetera.

37:24 She says don't ever come back and if you step on my lawn, God forbid. Well, I did not come back because I didn't want to find out what that God forbid meant. Okay fed talking about people with blinders on not really realizing what's going on in this world.

37:46 I think these are these are the people that you have to watch out for in this world. Do you see any way to avoid that? Have you learned any? Yes, you are you try to keep your mouth shut because you cannot convince these people. They've been so brainwashed. You cannot convince him. The only thing that helps is when they die off.

38:08 And like a lot of the Nazis died off of now there are very few left. Thank God.

38:17 Yeah, we do have some True Believers even in 2018 in something to eat. In which place you know, what like people who believe vaccines cause autism people lit don't see the global warming signs and it's because they don't check the facts like like a scientist right or the the zero in on the little amount of data that they said it extrapolate as being the norm we should talk to his nuts right leg tattoo 3% error rate on 1% of the data and ignore the rest of the 98% of the data right price. It doesn't fit into my model in my mind. So I'm going to ignore that. Right right. If you commit that sin as a scientist you going to be in deep trouble? Yes. Yes because you have to look at all the data and make sure that the conclusion C arrive at me and I'll consistent.

39:17 Can system can be reproduced yet. I just buy us pay by other people, right? And so, you know, I think it's a great story that we've exchanged there and I think a lot of science is Frozen coming threat of many of these that we both believe in in the king at the whole data as much as we can. And so I want to thank you for

39:42 Be my friend and neighbor and sharing these wonderful inspiring stories with with everyone here. You're welcome Frederick, and I really enjoyed living next door to you and I couldn't have gotten a better friend than you own a better neighborhood as well. Thank you. I feel the same way. I'm blessed that I made a decision to move to this part of town in the end discover a friend from Europe and who can I share a lot of common interests?