Barbara Brown and Helen Ens

00:03 Hello, my name is Barbara. I'm 79 years. Old today is August, 18th 2021. I'm talking from Fresno, California. And I am talking to Helen my relationship to Helen is

00:23 We are one small step Partners today.

00:29 Hi, my name is Helen. I'm 77 years old today is August. 18th. 2021. I live in Fresno, California. I'm in my home today. Barbara is my conversation partner and she is

00:53 New friend. I don't know who yet.

01:00 We're going to get to know each other Helen. What made you want to do this interview today?

01:08 Well, I wanted to be part of the solution and part of the problem. And I know that there's a lot of division and I I really would love.

01:22 Be part of the solution. Barbara what made you want to do this interview today?

01:31 Much the same kind of thing. I have some very good conversations with my sister. Actually. We are on opposite ends of the political Spectrum. I thought it would be really fun to get to know somebody with brand new and just

01:53 Show myself, and show you and show. Whoever it was a blessing to this. People can talk even for they don't agree on things. I'm solutely.

02:08 All right, so I just put both your bios in the chat. So Barbara If You Could Read Helen's bio and then if you've got a follow-up question, you can ask that and Helen same for you and you can just read the BIOS as they're racing.

02:29 Helen she says, I am a Jesus follower grew up in Kansas in a Christian home after college tie Elementary School, in Cali, Colombia and married, and taught in Kinshasa Congo. Her first two children were born, their child came during a year at Seminary here in Fresno. Move to Panama to work with indigenous people, for 8 years. It's social work and teaching in Fresno while my husband headed up our mission awesome children. Now grown retired now. With 10, wonderful grandchildren.

03:05 Barbara says, I am a 79 year old woman, born and raised in New Jersey, retired and living. You're my son and my siblings in Fresno, California. Big positive events would include going away to college. Getting married. Having a son, becoming a Christian and serving 21 years. As a missionary in Bogota Colombia, big - losing my mom early on to cancer. And having my dad died unexpectedly of a heart attack.

03:45 I'm just stressed by the anger and division that are poisoning, America.

03:55 So Barbara, can I ask you a question? Were you are a single missionary or were you together with your husband in Columbia. My husband had left years earlier. And so I went down there after my son was thrown. So I was on my own down. There was another missionary down there, a lady, but not my family did not go with me and you

04:27 Yeah, we we were together. Yeah, well, I went down to Columbia.

04:35 To teach in an American school with a program from our church. And so did Meryl, cuz I was from Kansas, and he was from California. So yeah, we both we met down there and fell in love and then we came back to the States. So that we would be here. And six months later. We were on our way to combo. So and then we, we came back again to stay in the states. And then three years later. We were on our way back to Costa Rica because God, was tickling our toes again. So, did you go to Fresno Pacific?

05:25 I know, know know my shoe, but I went to a little private college in Kansas in my hometown. You just mention a year of seven are here in Fresno.

05:42 Yes, that was an f f p u. Yeah, that sounds.

05:51 Do it a lot, don't you were in Bogota?

06:01 For all of those 21 years, all of us, 21 years. I went down for a year.

06:07 Time takes a long time to pass. Wow. And all the beautiful monastery.

06:25 Didn't do a lot of sightseeing, but a lot of time at the Botanical Garden auger for. So, I walked around and look the flowers and she walked around and took pictures of the flowers.

06:53 Oh, yeah, what was your role as missionary?

07:01 Tourist. She came from England. I came from the state. We arrived to help a Colombian Pastor, who was working in this little Invasion or squatter settlement on the mountains overlooking? And I he left at all of a sudden, the two of us were holding the baby with a bundle Church. The other guy had the preaching gift. I had the administrative gift. So I wound up. Cutting red tape for 21 years, play the keyboard in the church, and a lot of work with the kids.

07:39 And you, my music came into play in in Panama as well because

07:56 Yeah, I do, keep my eyes. I played piano. And when I was in Columbia, I didn't have a funeral. So, I learn to play guitar. So, when we went to Panama the men in the in the village wanted to learn to play guitar, so I had to Tar lessons. We sang a lot better today so many times.

08:36 So so it was so cool. When when we went to into the jungles to spend, you know, a couple of days or whatever and late at night. There was no light, no electricity at all. You could hear these guitars playing in the in the houses around and it was just so so many. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

09:04 I just put another question in the chat. Just want to call your attention to that we can maybe get together.

09:21 Who have been the most influential people?

09:26 Got to go first. Sure.

09:30 Oh, well, I could you ask it to each other actually, so it's on the tape who have been the most influent. Okay. Who have been the most influential people in your life? And what did they teach you?

09:44 And you asked me to go first. Yeah, I think probably my father. He was my

09:54 Yeah, he was my go-to person and I love to we were on a farm in Kansas and I love to go and sit with him while he milked the cows and just have a good conversation because that was the one time that I had him all to myself.

10:12 So I think my father and then afterward, we were married, I think my husband of Lea influence me. We, I just admire his his godliness and his

10:31 You know, it is and I know I'm learning from him as well.

10:38 So who have been the most influential people in your life? And what did they teach you?

10:46 First of all, my mom.

10:48 I think she taught me more, by example, than by words.

10:58 By the time I was in early teenager, she was crippled with arthritis and yet she was active in the community, and I can remember her struggling her way out to the car that had hands. But I went with her a couple times and she was going out to, I think, help a little kid to learn how to read. And, you know, the fact that it was painful and difficult didn't stop or she kept going and doing stuff. And, and she was a word person, and I will word person. And so we had a lot of fun with that. So, that was key. I picked up a lot of my values from her. I can remember one time. I cheated in a test in grade school, which I had never done before.

11:46 And I went home and I was telling my mom about it cuz I always told her everything when I got home from school and she looked at me and she said, Barbara don't ever do that again.

11:57 And that was more effective than an hour's lecture. I never cheated on a test again.

12:04 That was that was cheap. And then she died at an Aries. I was married another house, but I was just getting to know her as an adult and got remarried and I love my stepmother. Julie at 2. It was wonderful.

12:40 Influence from the jail that I shared with the work with in Columbia. She was, we live together.

12:49 And although we had our differences. She is a wonderful woman of God, and I learned and grew under her amazing. Cuz for all of her teaching was done to people who were semi-literate. So her teaching was done that. I'm very basic.

13:09 Good level, but she was getting across absolutely rock-bottom troops in Unforgettable ways. That impacted me as much as any Cinemas. I heard anywhere else. So that was cool. I think I didn't explain what my dad taught me that he was a peacemaker. There was there was nothing he wouldn't do.

13:38 In order to keep peace with everyone else around with his siblings, with his

13:46 With his.

13:49 Yeah, with the people in the church. He was just a peacemaker and I love that about you. Yeah, yeah.

14:03 Okay, so, why are Brooke could you briefly describe in your own words? Your personal political values? All right. Here we go.

14:15 I looked at that and I thought I think a political is meaning political party values or whatever.

14:25 My values are not political.

14:38 I am in favor of relatively relatively small government. I think there are things that are the genuine responsibility of national government and state government. I think a lot of things should be handled at a local level. A lot of things should be handled by churches and non-governmental organizations and neighbors that maybe aren't being handled as families start being handled these days. I don't know if you can't legislate that or not.

15:10 Gun ownership.

15:12 I am in favour of people owning guns, but I don't own myself. I think that anybody who has a gun should be very carefully checked to make sure that they know how to use it and that they are only in for the right reasons course, that's tricky. Who's going to decide? What the right reasons are. But that's a whole other story. I'd like to see more efficient and I am definitely in favor of voter ID, but not something to prevent people from voting but to just make sure that people are who they say, they are just the way it's required to get on a plane or buy liquor or drive a car or a lot of it.

15:54 That's what they mean by personal political beliefs. That's sort of somewhat I am. How about you? Okay. Yeah, I

16:07 I guess I took it as

16:11 Stating our party. So

16:14 I used to be a republican because I came from Kansas what my people were. But it, it seemed to me that during the past years. They have gotten very

16:32 Very militaristic. And

16:37 Capitalistic like saying that the u.s. Is

16:46 The only nation to be concerned about and I, I really differ on that. I, I think we are Global people and we have a responsibility to the global Network.

17:04 I believe that that the Democrats maybe have more of a social conscience to to help those around us.

17:17 So, that's probably the main reason I

17:25 Usually vote Democratic. They want a smaller military.

17:36 The immigration.

17:39 Call Saga is, is hard that it we need to recognize the people that that are coming to. Are you at?

17:57 For help. And yeah, I don't know, system should be but we need to do something for them. And with them, my ancestors came from Europe. And so I feel like I'm an immigrant as well. And when they asked me to put on a paper, are you what nationality or what race are you? And they say white or or something else? I I usually put something else. I don't believe my skin is not white and

18:38 And I have a brown interior. I stay. And with my all my age spots, I think. Maybe I'm just missing the, the coloring in between the spots. I don't know, but

18:58 By song. Yeah, so I usually try to put european-american or something like that on on those for

19:08 So I am also pro-life that is very strong. But on both ends of the spectrum, life pro life as a as a baby in the womb and pro-life as not killing.

19:28 Others.

19:30 So I I would think that there would be another way to go about negotiation other than having a big military.

19:43 War.

19:49 Yeah.

19:50 We agree on a lot. I think I should call myself a republic. Crap. I am.

19:58 I'm registered as a republican but I am deeply troubled by a lot of stuff that they're saying, and I'm troubled by some stuff. The Democrats are saying. So maybe if you, if you register independent, then you're part of the Independent party and they and they say, it's not really independent.

20:25 I don't care what happens to the primaries when you're in the party or something like that. Could you expand a bit on those? You said that you're troubled ideas in both parties. Could you expand on what those ideas are that you're troubled by?

20:48 I am really, really troubled by the

20:53 The Democratic Party.

20:56 Strong support of abortion.

21:02 I speak as a former member of Planned, Parenthood. My mother wasn't Planned Parenthood and I was involved. I was even on the board of Planned Parenthood in San Diego and I became Christian and we moved away from San Diego. My husband was, was shipped out to the east coast. It wasn't convenient to still be involved, but I cannot go along with that.

21:35 I am.

21:37 Very concerned about the lgbtq party, because I am not in favor of

21:45 That I believe, I do not believe the people are evil. I believe that what they're doing is wrong, which is different.

21:55 Republicans.

21:58 This whole,

22:01 Publican, right? Or wrong? I'm a republican know, I don't go for that. I

22:08 I don't like their attitude or what's going on in the emigration area, and I'm not real Stone on any of this.

22:20 I don't I'm not a trump fan.

22:26 I don't understand where they probably answer coming from because the the party is changing from what it used to be. I think and I don't want to switch to Democrat.

22:42 Yeah, I think we are on a lot of the same same page because that lgbtq I don't believe that God programmed us that way and that is the wrong way to move. However our society.

23:08 Which is not Christian on the whole is moving so hard towards that end in pushing us and I do not believe that's the best route.

23:24 I believe those people are are God's people and and he's saddened by what they're doing. I would I welcome those people into my church, but I cannot.

23:40 Walk up there. I cannot affirm their lifestyle. So we have a lot of the same values. Helen. Could you talk a bit about your registered Democrat? But you mentioned that, you're pro-life on both ends. Could you talk a bit about your views, on abortion, and how those sit with your party affiliation?

24:08 Yeah.

24:12 I don't believe that the government can legislate moral activities. Moral Behavior.

24:22 So, I can put that as a personal choice instead of a

24:33 Yeah, and I don't like it when the Democrats legislate.

24:38 For Pro.

24:42 Yeah, bro, homosexual or Pro. Yeah, but I agree that people need to be valued as people. So that's kind of a gray area in My Mind by.

24:58 Having I know that marriage is a stable thing. And so if, if two people want to live together.

25:10 And love each other.

25:14 I don't. Yeah, it's a gray area. Like I said, I I don't really know the Bible. Definitely sucks a gift relationships and it, but it also talks against greed, and that talks against not honoring, your parents. And, and so, you know, I just don't think that the government couldn't lie, just like those kind of things.

25:46 Is that answer, that could you talk a bit about how that

25:52 How that makes me feel.

25:56 Your question was about abortion, Helen answered about lgbtq.

26:01 Okay.

26:06 Lgbtq.

26:09 I do believe that God knew what he was doing when he said,

26:14 Homosexuality is wrong. It rather interferes with his plan for people to be fruitful and multiply and

26:26 I don't know what all his thinking was, but I do believe that if he said it was wrong. It's wrong again. I do not hate people who are doing it. I believe they've been sold a bill of goods and it being told that something is okay. That is not. Okay, and I worry about them.

26:44 What are the terrorist people I met in Columbia with a guy? Got a gay guy was in my English class and he was easily the kindest sweetest person in the remember him that way, but

27:03 I am sad when I think of him because he's definitely doing something. God has said do not do and I write about him.

27:13 I don't happen to have any gay people in my neighborhood so far as I know, but I would certainly try to be a good neighbor to them if they were to come here and I wouldn't be knocking on their door with track tried to convince him. Otherwise, I sure would love to love him into the kingdom of God, which is very much my way of doing things anyway.

27:34 Very painful.

27:37 People have to write.

27:40 Yeah.

27:43 I think I said with the

27:47 The abortion that I didn't think the government could could legislate that kind of thing and I also have been included the lgbtq.

28:03 Barbara, what's your opinion about like the government legislating on that on those types of issues?

28:12 Pro-life issues for Life. Lgbtq. Yeah, the Moral Moral issues, okay.

28:23 I think because of the United States probably cannot legislate against homosexual activity, but when we start legislating against people who,

28:36 Promote traditional biblical values and when they become the target of lawsuits and that kind of thing. Gone wrong.

28:51 I think the government is stepping too far, the other way.

28:56 Pro-life.

28:58 Again, I believe in

29:01 And the fact that the America, I believe sex belongs in marriage. I don't think we should. Criminalize extramarital. Sex would be in jail at this point of crate. But again, I don't believe it, we should be

29:23 Bring legal action against people who are even trying to convince somebody else of their position for pro-life or whatever.

29:36 If they're asked what do you believe? They say what they believe and then they are.

29:40 Condemned, because because they're pro-life at all levels of society, any there? A churches?

29:48 Are struggling with this. Their universities are struggling with this Mission and individuals of all kinds and I think the government is overstepping its bounds.

30:00 I would I would agree with that because I don't, I don't think the government should legislate either way. So it would be like yeah, like universities like you were saying f p u, the Fresno Pacific University laws, like

30:26 They were, they were going to lose their federal grants at one point if they didn't include all kinds of people in there.

30:43 In their back. Okay. Yeah.

30:48 Yeah, but I, I wanted to ask, if you had some examples of of.

30:56 People who are getting shut down because of their police.

31:06 I don't think I can give you specific examples. I've just

31:10 Picked up that says, I'm not just talkin from Facebook other.

31:18 Literature that I read some of it. And I tend to read conservative not wildly right-wing but Conservative Christian stuff. Like a lot of my news from there and that there are diverse cities in. There are churches that are really being slammed because of their hiring practices or with your teaching. And

31:41 That's worrying.

31:43 Freedom of speech is only applicable to

31:50 Whoever is in power, at the moment, that's dangerous for the United States was better during the Republican.

32:01 Presidency. I don't think. But I don't know. Because yeah, like like Trump said he was a Christian and he believed those.

32:26 The things that made him popular with the Christian Community or some Christian communities, but I don't believe that was his heart.

32:44 I fixed some stuff. He was genuine about some stuff. I'm not so sure about.

32:50 I shouldn't be judging.

33:01 Only I can do that.

33:05 I just put another question in the chat.

33:11 All right, I want. Is there something about my beliefs? You don't agree with but still respect.

33:17 Oh, I respect all of your beliefs.

33:26 Yeah, I guess you're talk about it.

33:31 The right to own a gun that part. I don't really.

33:40 Agree with because I don't think guns are the answer to anything and if you own a gun, there's so much more chance of someone using it in the wrong way, in your even having it hidden in your house, you know.

34:01 So,

34:03 But I don't know where to go from here because there is you can't just say, we're going to take everybody's guns away because they're not going to submit them and and people,

34:21 Get a hold of guns or whether or not they're legal, right?

34:29 So yes, I respect your your thinking on that.

34:38 Yeah, is there something that of my beliefs that you don't agree with that? You respect?

34:53 What you mention immigration and I wonder if you didn't elaborate on that, other picture is too pretty much. I feel we are on the same wavelength. I am sitting outside. So just what do you think about your immigration? What's what's your gut feeling about? What's going on at the border?

35:14 That we need to put a way less money into military.

35:20 And policing and way more money into counselors at,

35:28 Helper at the border. So that I mean, we don't need a wall. We need, we need people to, to know, to decide what to do for these.

35:43 Immigrants and yeah and negotiate together with Mexico and the Central American countries and see if we can help them get the

35:58 Get on the right track. So people don't have to leave.

36:03 Yeah, that's enough. I don't I am concerned myself. When I said I don't like the idea of the wall and all this stuff at the same time. I feel for the people Americans who live on the border and they don't feel safe in their own homes anymore because they never know who is going to be out in the yard, when I go out there in the morning because of illegal people coming through and some of them are just

36:36 Struggling families, try to get through when some of them aren't and

36:43 I suppose if they would make the crossing easier to Legal Crossing easier. Maybe there would be less, you legal Crossing. I don't know. But then, what do you do with all these folks when you get them in here?

36:57 People talk about this whole employment.

37:00 Issue, but right now, we've got people in United States are unemployed cuz I don't want to work and we got these new people coming in and probably do a lot of work in the

37:15 And Barbara I resonate with that. Yes, because

37:23 Why are they not asking people to clean up the trash in the street?

37:31 To earn their money, you know don't just roll money out at people and expect them then go to work and and

37:42 Make their own living and save that money or something, you know.

37:49 Yeah, whatever happened to also CCC Civilian Conservation Corps back in the depression area.

38:02 Something like that, but I know some people can't work for one reason or another and single mothers. It's pretty hard for them to go out in the woods. Clear Trail to Yosemite or something like that, but

38:16 I think the needs to be more.

38:21 Not just throwing money at people, but more creative solutions to get people back that employees that itself employs more people, you know, to get

38:35 Helpers to help others to become employed and it's a whole infrastructure that we haven't put into place.

38:50 But that in the infrastructure, bill.

38:52 Right, for you to ask Helen?

39:05 Helen was there a moment or experience in your life that help shape your beliefs.

39:12 Definitely. Yeah. When I was

39:18 In my OK after my high school graduation.

39:25 I begged my parents and they let me go for a summer.

39:31 Stamped with our church with an organization called MCC don't know if you've heard of that Mennonite Central Committee, that works out of Akron Pennsylvania where my aunt worked and they they employee young people for the summer to help with disadvantaged children. So I went to Washington DC and lived there for the summer, to help in a daycare situation and an account that we sent children to what a life-changing.

40:17 Experience. It was for me. I was I lived in the

40:24 Now, I can't think.

40:28 In a

40:31 In a house, that was a w. Lawn.

40:35 And that was our daycare center as well.

40:40 Do it belong to?

40:44 Francis Scott. Key is right, one. Anyway, it belong to one of our founding people. There were African men who stayed in that house at the same time as we did in. I don't know how anybody let that happen. But it was, we were young innocent girls and it was beautiful. It was not a sticky situation at all. And I so much and when I came home from then,

41:21 From there to my little town, in Kansas, where we did not let black people stay for night.

41:31 And and I had work with blacks all summer and it was just a life-changing thing. And I said at that point I said, okay if I need to marry a black in order to unite people, I'll do it. And so that was one of the reasons I went to Columbia. I was thinking I was going to go there to find a husband that I realize not all husbands, are are black. No, I found a white, a tall, white blonde.

42:09 God know better than I did. What? What I needed, haha.

42:17 Yeah, so that was probably my house. What was your life experience in your life? That help shape your place.

42:28 Well.

42:31 Becoming a Christian with.

42:43 A couple years later, as I said, I had been involved with Planned Parenthood in the free abortion days and then abortion began to come on the scene, but I was no longer working with them and we were on the west coast to the East Coast with the Navy. And I was in my

43:04 Family doctors office and he was obviously a pro-lifer, and he had a lot of pro-life literature around which caught my attention and I read some of it.

43:15 Then shortly thereafter. I read an article in Reader's Digest.

43:22 Said it was one of these things were, it was written from the point of view of a pre-born baby, little girls. And she was writing to her mom and she was telling her mom about the things. She was so excited about doing with her after she was born and looking forward to seeing her face and getting to know her and it was beautifully written and then all the sudden it changed and it said, Mommy.

43:52 What are you doing, Mommy Mommy, that hurts?

44:00 And that I think I became a pro-lifer at that moment.

44:07 And I have been so ever since.

44:12 At really?

44:14 Oh, that's powerful.

44:20 Yeah.

44:22 And when, when mothers of fetuses are killed, they allow.

44:34 The murderer to be judged for two lives, but when yeah, but you can take that life away without any recompense.

44:49 You know, something a while ago. I was looking at my dad's will for some reason or other 1985 86 movie in, Florida.

45:01 And he included as a stipulation, It is Well to include any.

45:09 Freeboard yet-to-be-born, child, a child who had been conceived at the time of his death was considered to be one of his ears and that apparently held water in Florida law that point.

45:27 That might have been standard wording for Will's in those days. I don't know.

45:34 So we've got five more minutes. I'm going to put a closing question. This question is for both of you to ask one another. So yeah, is there anything else you wanted to ask me today? But didn't get the chiminea.

45:50 Oh my

45:57 I feel so I know you so well.

46:10 Asking you something else.

46:13 Okay, let me ask you something. How would you like to be remembered? Like I sometimes think about what I would like on my Tombstone. And how would you like to be remembered Barbara?

46:33 I would like to be remembered as somebody who love God.

46:44 And I worry a lot about what people think about me and I know I shouldn't and I struggle with that all the time, but way down deep, I love.

46:56 It was Rick Warren's, who said, you know, my goal in life is to make God smile and

47:03 I want to be remembered as somebody who may God smile. Love God.

47:09 How about you?

47:15 When you, when you say that, it reminds me of the

47:25 Definition of Passage.

47:29 Sings over you. Yeah, I would like to be known. I would like to be remembered.

47:49 War.

47:52 Being a loving grandma.

47:56 And one that and a person who loved the Lord and served him.

48:03 All of my days.

48:07 I remember when I was, I think as young as 11 years old.

48:17 I went already in a, in a service, in our church saying.

48:23 When the pastor asks, who wants to live for Christ everyday all day? 24/7.

48:30 And I went forward thinking that the whole church would be going forward.

48:38 And I was the only one and I said no, but if everybody's desire and they were all thinking I said, wasn't what I was thinking, but I guess God use that.

49:02 What's his ways special times has been? This is been so super. I I want to get to know you better Barbara. Is that a possibility? I want to yes. Yes. I can connect you both. I can connect you both via email and then you can go from there. Yeah. I'm happy to do that, please. Yeah. Yeah, that is the best outcome, any conversation that ends with that. I'm just like, I've done my job. So I'm very, very happy to hear that you both. Yeah, enjoy this experience. Did you find that you had things like not incompetent as well?

49:57 Very sure, we'll find something else. Like she really doesn't like I know I owe no. Oh my gosh. Well, yeah, that's what I've been finding with. So many interviews has, it's really hard to find people who don't have much in common. Even people who seem wildly different. I put them together in the same room and, and they've shared some sort of life experience, or yeah, so, I've been trying to make my matches a little more

50:35 Nuance to like also with the intent of also connecting people, you know, you share friendships or whatever it may be.