Carol Lindsey and Kim Clarke

00:03 My name is Coke Lindsey. I right now I'm 64 years old. The location is The Broadmoor in Colorado Springs my interview. My amazing interview partner. Today is Kim Clarke and she was a longtime teammate of mine.

00:22 Hi, my name is Kim Clarke. I'm 54 years old. This interview is being taken at the Broadmoor in Colorado Springs. It's November 1st 2019. And my interview partner is Coke Lindsay, and she was a teammate of mine in the sport of team handball and I participated in the 8892 and 96 Olympics.

00:51 And I also participated in team handball and I participated in the 1984 Olympics.

01:02 So coke.

01:05 Could you tell me about when you were competing? Could you describe where you came from? And how did you get in the sport? When I first learned of the sport? It was 1974 and I was playing basketball at Purdue University and the Olympic Committee adjust added team handball to the 1976 Olympics for women and the US needed to field a team and their plan of attack was to recruit all-around athletes from college teams. Bring us together teaches a sport and see if we could qualify and at that time the basketball coach at Purdue said you should go try this and I did.

01:48 And 10 years later. I was able to go to the Olympics and Kim. How did you get involved? Well, my story is that my sister saw an article in a magazine about this sport team handball and they were looking for young athletes to try out for the junior team and the article said that they wanted young athlete to know play basketball volleyball softball and there was an application that was needed to fill out like how fast you run the 50 how far can you throw a softball and so my sister sent that in and at which I did not know about and then I get a letter from the team handball Federation, you know requesting that I come to a tryout in Colorado Springs and this would be for the junior national team. So went to Colorado Springs tried out for the junior team made the junior national team and then a few months later went to Yugoslavia. This was in nineteen.

02:48 C9 to participate in the junior World Championships and yeah that was, you know fell in love with the sport and just being able to travel to another country and see that was pretty amazing. So in college Coke what what sports did you play that you thought would have made you good in team handball the main sport. I played was was basketball, which as we both know has a lot of carry over to the team handball skills, but growing up Anna. I didn't have a lot of high school sports till my last two years. I was like into playing everything. So I was a three-sport athlete at Purdue. I played field hockey, which I never seen before but within a couple months of practice I was starting halfback and I also was a starting short short short stop on the softball team, so

03:45 It's kind of cool to say I was a three-sport athlete at a Big Ten college, especially now and you have to focus so much or coaches. Have you focus so much just on one sport where I think when we played we were able to enjoy all sports. So and I think all of those Sports contributed, I think I think they're when they said they were looking for all-around athletes. I think that really fits the bill for team handball totally because you know team handball the so much like basketball another water polo played on land or even talk or yeah instead of trying to kick the ball into the goal. You try to throw it but when I was learning team handball and getting you know, seeing what the sport was about and seeing the the full-court back and forth, I grew up in Iowa and oh, yeah, and we played six-on-six basketball and one of my, you know, I just love sports when I was young and you know one of my goal

04:44 Was to play basketball in college, but I thought one of the weaknesses was being playing six-on-six basketball in Iowa and only having that half court experience and not being able to you know, play five-on-five and know what a full court length of you know tactics and all that wasn't team handball. I was like, wow, we can run the full length of the Acora playing this sport. So, you know, I being able to get involved with team handball. That was one of my things well if I can play team handball I might be able to you know, use team handball to with my basketball experience and you know, they'll say that I'll be able to run up and down the courts that have just this half court basketball from Iowa. Yeah, you know, I'm just enough older than you that I didn't have high school sports. Tell my junior year and so my background really I can contribute a lot of my athletic ability to my four brothers.

05:44 And playing pickup basketball outside and in playing 500 baseball in the field and and I also have two sisters and my sister told me at the Olympics that she look out the window and she'd see me playing with my brothers and she was so excited to have a little sister and all I did was play with my brothers and I didn't play with dolls and she said and she's not even very good and she told me that story at the Olympics. I know my parents would say cuz I played in the neighborhood with all you know of the neighborhood boys too. And I guess my older sister was was jealous because here I was playing with all the neighborhood boys that you know, cuz she was older as she probably wanted to flirt with and hear you now, you know, I I think I had the the end to you not being able to play and Binoo get you know that I'm to call me and say hey come over to my house, but you know, it wasn't, you know to watch TV or anything.

06:44 Like that it was hey, let's play basketball. Let's play Wiffle ball. And so I bet if you talk to all of our teammates, they all had similar stories again that that reinforces that all around athletic ability and desire to compete it does. So what was one of the hardest things that you had to do to sacrifice in order to participate or train for the Olympics. The hardest thing for me was since the first time we tried out was in 1976 and we didn't qualify and then like two weeks before we so I trained until 80 and the two weeks before the Olympics. They announce the boycott and some of the time though,

07:25 84 Olympics came around I mean, I knew it was my last chance while I was 28 years old. I had student loan debt. I had no money so that the hardest part for me was you no continuing that long with really no financial support and my sister who wanted me to play dolls actually was kind of a savior in the last two years. I trained she said I'm sending you $100 a month and I felt well fee and $40 went to my student loans, but I saw all my other friends being out of school and making money and having money and I was still broke. So it was hard to justify not starting a career for that last chance to go to the Olympics, but I'm glad I did it and I would do it again, but it was tough mentally, you know, I'm depending on other people for money and I'm 28 years old. I should be independent right? How about you?

08:25 Since I was 16 years old when I got asked to join the National Team, I I had to convince my parents that you know, this was okay for them to let me go live in New Jersey that means move move from Iowa to New Jersey and live and what you would call a sorority type house cuz that's where all where we were living in this house while we were training is about an upright 12 of us living in this house. And that one of my teammates was going to have to be my legal Guardians in order to sign my report cards and you know, just make sure that if anything happened in school since my parents were, you know, still going to live in Iowa that I'd be in a well supervised and and so with trying to convince my parents, you know, I kind of a couple scenarios one is probably when I was younger maybe 12 or so years old I go to a church camp and I would it was like overnight.

09:25 Church camp and I remember crying and being the in the infirmary the whole time because I didn't want to do candle making or I didn't want to sing camp songs or you know, I wanted to play ball, you know, I was missing, you know, probably some summer baseball or softball league and

09:44 And so that that kind of you know was in my parents had will you aren't you going to get home sick, but I remember then going to a basketball camp where I cried because I had to leave so, you know, you put a ball in my hand. I'm going to be happy. I'm going to let you know just go for it. And and so and also with my mom my mom came over from Poland by yourself during World War II and in so she took a chance on life and I think she saw the passion that I had that just the motivation that I had and that she was willing to you know, let me go at 16 to follow my dreams because you know, she was young when she came to America all by herself to follow her dream. So I think that helped convince them to you know, let me go and and you know live with me and my teammates who're you know, probably quite a few years older than me, you know, they're probably could be in there being a late twenties to mid 20.

10:44 He's in here. You know, I was the baby at 16, but still the baby but you know you the teammates you all were, you know, great role models for me. You know, you. You know, I took there so many positive things that I could take from each and everyone of you to kind of mold me to who I am today. So I think all of her teammates help shape us but that leads to that story. I don't know if it was the first time I met you maybe you were at a tryout but we're we're going to Caravan a couple car loads to was it, New Jersey or Washington, Washington, Washington DC for the national championships and

11:25 I see this car drive up and we know she was coming and she gets out of the car. She's 16. She's 16 years old and she has her bag and her mom standing there and you know Caesar gets in the car and we all pack up and I remember looking back at her mom and she's just she just has this look on her face like

11:49 I trust her and I hope we're doing the right thing but that's my little girl getting in a car load of people. I don't know and I have really made an impression on me the I guess the confidence she had it in her daughter and it's and it's amazing when you know, I tell my friends now, you know how my parents let me go at that such a young age that you know, you know, I don't know if parents would have that trust in the world or even in people with, you know, all the stories that you know you here now and you know, I was just very very fortunate and lucky lucky but you know, I think it also tells a story about the team handball, you know people who are involved with team handball, you know, they're they're just going to Great down-to-earth, you know people that have good values and and work ethics and there's two there's just a lot of positive things there. It's definitely

12:49 A family sport. Once you're in you're hooked and your family forever. One of the things I really admired of you Kim is how many times you came back from knee surgery?

13:02 And now you have two artificial knees so I know there had to be a lot of pain for you to continue to train and train and train. Yes and 83 right before the 80 for a year before the 84 Olympics is when I tore my ACL and in my right knee and you know back then that's when you know recovery time was long and you know, pray year plus and I mean it broke my parents hard because you know, they're going to let me go part it, you know train at 16 years old move to New Jersey and then just to have my Olympic dreams for a 1984 just you know, get you know dampened by this knee surgery. So, you know that that was a really, you know, I guess your critical time, you know in my guess my life where you know, you could just quit just give up on on Sports, but you know, I just, you know wanted to continue to play.

14:02 I know and I played you know how much University of Iowa took a little bit of time off from playing team handball in this would have been around 8485 and 85. I am was asked to join the handball team handball national team again to start training for the 88 Olympics and you know from there, you know, my my knees. Hell. I was able to make the you know 88 games and then continue to 92 and then 96 but you know, as I said, it's just for me the love of the competition just being able to play and avoid the USA the responsibilities of job and but because it's

14:49 It was definitely a wonderful time in my life just being able to play and the you can't wait until you're ready. It's it's that that when you're in from your life, you just have to do it exactly. So what were some of your fondest moments of the Olympics or just the team handball experience.

15:13 I think the my most defining memory was finally getting to the Olympics and walking in for the opening ceremonies and having it be in the United States and all the people in the stands. We're cheering for you because as we both know the handball is a European Sport and we very rarely were able to play for HomeTown. I mean home crowd so when we walked in and it was a standing ovation for 15 minutes, I just I said, I don't even care if I play a game. I don't think my feet touch the ground all the way around. I I was just in awe and you know, we know we played a lot of tournaments. We played a lot of tournaments but the significance of that Opening Ceremonies for the Olympics.

16:08 It it really hit me. This isn't just another tournament Drive, even though the teams we played we had played all of them and some other tournament this this was a big deal and I really had that thought. I don't even care if I play a game in my eyes and I found my parents in the stands and I took a picture of them and I have it framed in my office Oscar Wilde. That's incredible. I know I was lucky, you know to participate also in the US soil in Atlanta. So so definitely know that feeling, you know being, you know at the home field in this the chance of USA and it was just an incredible feeling but you know, but I can do for me. It's like the 88 Olympics and my parents being able to to be there especially after the 84 disappointment when I blew out my knee and not able to participate and you know my parents when I wanted to start training.

17:08 88 there like they're they're kind of unsure. Are you doing the right thing? Are you going to not waste another, you know, four more years training, but where is this going to lead you because I did give up a full basketball scholarship to Drake to start training for the 88 Olympics and you know, they're really hesitant. But when they were part of you no Opening Ceremonies and watching it they just were like wow this was so well worth the sacrifice that we you know allowed, you know, our daughter to partake in and then, you know after the 88 games if it's like, what are you going to start training for 9296 and you know, they were so into it and they can understand that feeling of maybe what drove me to wanting to keep playing.

17:58 And it's that it said drive that's hard to explain to people and you know, all the things that we had to do that weren't always so nice and fun and you hurt an egg I can read and you mentioned the 96 games.

18:14 And I played and not getting the 84. That was the first Olympics. I watched it took me 12 years. Wow to want to watch again. And why do you think

18:28 You know, it was 10 years leading up to going and if you isolate if you isolate that just that time at the Olympics. It's absolutely wonderful. But you do all done, you know, when and we both know in our sport. We always had these crazy European Soviet coaches and it was just mentally hard on you, you know not having any money just being physically worn out. I I just I had I think a lot of baggage it wasn't that I didn't like the Olympics but I wasn't enthused about it and in 96 and I got to carry the torch and it suddenly like all the

19:11 Part all the heavy memories were gone. And now there's zero heavy men reason. It's all just one hundred percent positive and it took me three Olympics to want to watch again. I'd people would say are you going to watch and I go yeah, but I didn't know we're here at the Broadmoor. Do you know being part of this Olympic reunions and kind of like you said, it's just to see you and to see other teammates that it's just that it incredible feeling and when you know, you talked to like I talk to my friends that I'm coming here and then and even to you no have people see the bond between us that they just think that's an incredible bond that we have and you know, that ain't no one can really understand that that you know, we made only see each other in a four-times, you know, you know once every four years, but still we have that Bond where we

20:11 And pick right back up and it's like I can't agree with you more cuz my friends will say what do you keep in touch with your teammates to do this? And I said no, but when we get together, it's like we've never been apart. Totally. No one expects you to keep in touch just Unwritten rule that we're friends forever.

20:34 The one thing I hate you do I pay my own question here, but the one thing since I am a little older than you, I was in 1974. I'm going to talk about the title 9 a little bit and how did it affect me directly when I was at Purdue. There was no real women sports yet if they had their own little whatever they called it and I was brand new freshman and I went out for field hockey not know anything about it and these senior field hockey player said meet us at the president of president's office. So I just went along and he thought he was going to be interviewed by the student newspaper in like 25 young women went into his office and demanded.

21:18 That he found women sports.

21:21 I just remember standing there again, like a deer in the headlights and you know being, you know told to be respectful and I'm like did we just lie to get in here and I just remember just kind of beetle feeling awkward in and not you know, not really very soft. And you know, they're solitary and numbers I didn't say a word it was the seniors and I look back on that and it really was historic total in my ear and it took him a little bit and I finally started finding women sports. And of course the whole campus said that's why we have to know pay for our football tickets now, it's ya so it was it's a it's a historical moment that now I'm very proud of to be a part of it and at the time if they would have explained it I'd be like my parents would want me to do that. You know, it's all right. He was a little shocked.

22:24 So what for the 88 or 80 boycott, so you were a part of that, you know in a way. Yeah, we were living here in here in Colorado Springs. And what were they were still the old army barracks and I think it was like 2 weeks. We were supposed to before we were supposed to leave and go to the Congo for a qualifications of President Jimmy Carter in Anza boycott. And I mean it it really I mean we still went to her qualifications and we didn't win and can you say we knew we couldn't go anyway couldn't you know, we didn't get blown out maybe could have one we weren't outclassed but

23:06 I'll never forget that. It's like okay, you're still going to sell your cutting back on the wheat sales. You're not cutting off all the subsidies. We send them then why don't you just not send the track team, you know, it was kind of like, okay, no, no business know lobbyist know anybody is going to defend the Olympians that trained for four years and they don't get to go but oh no, it will still take care of some of these businesses and it really made me angry. I could see I mean using you know, Olympic Olympic athletes has political Pawn Yeah, it's me. There's really no place and that at all and you know, I know of athletes you know today and if they do try to you know Thai in politics to two sports and everything, but you know, I don't do at that time, especially with the Olympians being amateurs back again.

24:05 1980 and we were amateurs. I guess. I don't know you probably remember the captain of our team collecting cans to get enough money to Greg. But that that took the Congo I want one claim to fame I probably have is that's where the Korean goalkeeper decked me and bruised my pancreas and it had to go pancreatic pseudocyst. That's probably one of the most unique athletic injuries ever. Wow, and I just had an ultrasound of my pancreas cuz there's something going on with my blood sugar's and it has shrunk.

24:43 Oh and you think that entry just don't know. They said that from the trauma if they called it that truncated I called it shrunk and they said no truncated. I said that means smaller, right? Yeah.

24:54 So hopefully you won't give me any long-term issues. I mean, I feel pretty healthy but it's a pretty unique athletic injury definitely. But you know, if it's a little bit of a dangerous position on the real the real joke is I was never the first one on a fast-break and there I was and she ducked me.

25:18 You talk a little bit more about so you guys were clearly.

25:24 Oh, yeah.

25:29 So the team handball with there's different positions as basketball where you have a point guard. Do you have forward you have Center so and team handball you have a position called Circle Runner, which you might say. Would you say Coke like be a center in basketball stars at home. And then we also have backcourt players and we have Wing players and a goalie kind of Define the positions in team handball sew-in in basketball. I played High post a lot. And so I think I was a natural fit to play circle Runner you played with your back to the basket of the back to the to the ball and really you kind of tried to set pics and rolls and set up set up those back those glorified backcourt players. So they got all the glory and I did all the work but the one but the one I mean and I'm not patting myself on the back, but

26:25 I think I'm one of the few that Embrace that position I absolutely loved it. Most people I think felt like they got forced to play there. I loved it. Yeah, that's about it. Also just ice was just thinking that I was going through some of that, you know that the questions for this interview that we could ask and and one thing that time so it's like it's not the Batu much the sound of the sport but to me this distinct smell of stickum. Yes. It's like whenever I smell like pine tar, cuz we use this stick him in order to immuno pass the ball or have better control of the ball. So just kind of like at NFL wide receiver. I remember Fred Bullock in a cop have to have all this stick him on his hands and his kind of like us but I was just like, oh, yeah whenever I have that smell I think of that stick employment are absolutely agree in and I have kind of small hands. So I

27:25 Are you still out of it? But even though when I'm out in the woods cross country skiing or hunting or something and I see a spruce tree that has a sap bubble. I'll go over there and I will pick it off and I will smell it and it just brings back that memory has no family jerseys got ruined from it. Oh, yeah. Well, they're open the Olympic Museum here in Colorado Springs. So I had a couple jerseys that actually had an emblem of soul and I was going to donate to the museum but sure enough they have the sticker marks on the shirts. So, you know, I'll probably like didn't you wash these before you even come out by Olympic White Olympic one has stick.

28:17 So it's a little bit more about the the positions in in team handball. So, you know, obviously a right and left hand side of the court and it was very advantageous to have left handers. That's right. I'm a lefty. So to play on that like right side of the court. So you have the right Wings in the the right back courts of for the right wing and right back or you definitely have an advantage for the angle that you shoot at the goal. So and then you know, the the left side with the left back hurts and left-wing definitely an advantage if you're right-handed in I remember people being very excited about you joining the team because you were 16. You were athletic you were already tall and you were left hand.

29:06 And if it worked at 8, I mean it was such like I said it incredible span, you know being on the national team, you know being able to travel and in the in the travel in the countries we went to that is just something that I'm just so grateful for that. I've had the experience to see the world at at such a young age. And you know, I do just said, you know golden going to the Congo and Russia and and you know, we are we going to we are able to kind of see the Eastern Bloc countries, you know back in the day and under really understand, you know, maybe people living in communism. I'll tell you now with all the talk about me know if socialism vs socialism that and be going to the socialist countries are the communist countries. It was absolutely I opening for me and made me so proud of what this country how they treat their citizens and

30:06 We're not perfect. But oh my gosh that was back in the Heyday at you know, where I went to Moscow in 1975. I mean it was

30:16 That was actually the Heyday and I just was I just couldn't wait to get back to to the United States, but you're right, you know.

30:26 I can't I can't even probably list all the countries I got to go to and what an absolute opportunity and people say or do you know people be talking in a conversation will be talked about some place they went and I said, oh I was there. So I was there. They just can't believe it in there. Like what it just was absolutely amazing. And that's the other thing. I think that made our team-mates closer, you know.

30:52 On the bus off the bus 23 hours in an airport finding ways to entertain ourselves and ride it wasn't you know, how we traveled, you know, what does class? Yes, it was trained and you know having all the luggage and all the sports medicine and you would say the old fashioned video equipment that just, you know wasn't just putting a little carry on bag. It was quite large and heavy and I remember, you know, the rookies were the ones who had to you know, Carrie the huge sports medicine bag in or carry the balls send so I mean, I think it we don't want you guys. I don't know maybe so many International games under your belt that you know, you could hand off that Sports Medicine equipment to the lower person on the totem pole. What I was I was a little miffed when the you know, I had probably seventy-five International games and when I came back for the last year, they said I was a rookie and I had to carry the balls and I

31:52 I didn't know that was my mom wants your age. I just said I'm I'm I'm just going to kind of not carry them. I thought I was a little insulting.

32:04 No, I mean I think it was his good-nature, but I thought I've got 75 International games. I am not a rookie sad because I was not on the train the year before with the team. I weighed the news.

32:19 So I know it was you know, sometimes I think about and you got a little bit more of probably of an organ better conditions when you play basketball in college, but really we were at The Forum for runners of women sports, and I wouldn't change it for anything. I mean we had to stick it out for the love of sport. It wasn't we were not primadonnas. I mean, we're washing our clothes out in the sink and right and you know buying our own shoes and I wouldn't trade did I I look now where you know, you have to specialize in one sport and they want you to train all year and that one sport and I I wouldn't trade the way.

33:05 I spent my athletic career for anyting know I mean it taught me, you know so much and you know a lot of if you know what I've learned, you know it in sports, you know carry onto you know, I work at as a manager and trying, you know, I guess kind of my manager style and I would call it, you know a player's coach, you know, I work hard to you to make my people better, you know, I want them to succeed, you know, and I and I think a lot of that has to do with just you know, being involved with them Sports and on teams and learning how to deal with with people and y'all have to work together all the different personalities and you're all in it together and to succeed I couldn't have said that any better and I spent most of my engineering career in management and I I mean the one of the work ethic even if you're tired sore and hungry you still have to go to practice even if you're you're tired and worn-out you still need to go to work you don't you don't just call in sick, but it was

34:05 And I think dealing with learning to deal with all the different personalities in our team. And I'd look at you know at times. I do know had you know a hundred people working for me.

34:16 The people are the same the same you have the quiet ones. You have the loud mouths. You have The Underachievers the overachievers. You could almost pick out a team-mate to match. You have those that I don't want to be noticed in the I absolutely agree. I think my athletic career was probably I mean besides having the educational background was the number one thing that made me successful in my my professional career that is four brothers great catching up with you. What is it that we should do it when we say more than once every five years, but definitely one thing I have to thank you Kim made a trip to Northern Wisconsin to see me was about a year ago. Guess it was because she had a class reunions. I mean a family reunions close, but I was honored that she would come by. I totally I mean I'd love them visiting up there in northern, Wisconsin.

35:16 It's beautiful country. And then when when I went to to the Packer game in Atlanta, I made sure I called you and made you wear a cheesehead exactly tailgate and handball player show up, right Jimmy doesn't matter if you've talked to him in the year. Do you know where they live, and they come and see you exactly so.

35:49 We have about 5 Mi for rent left. Ask there was two mentioned.

35:57 Collecting cans Goofy Movie

36:00 Do you want to I mean, you don't have to talk.

36:06 Sure, you noticed I think our days that the Lake Placid Olympic Training Center and you know and everyone like I said. I felt Rich my sister was sending me $100 a month, but there was a couple instances of that really was eye-opening and in one was our captain collecting cans to try to get enough money to go to a movie or to do laundry. And another one was another teammate. We are getting ready to go to Europe and she was asking people if it could anyone loan her $15 so she did have some money in her pocket for the trip and it just brings tears to your eyes. But at the time like nobody had $15 to loan but the yeah, they think they're collecting. What do you think about that? Do you remember that vaguely remember it cuz I know when we lived here in Colorado Springs at the Olympic Training Center that you know, we would get odd jobs.

37:06 Greenhouses at it right in doing just you know, whatever that have some extra cash because even though you know, we had our room and board in a paid for by the US Olympic Committee living at the US Olympic training centers. You know what we still yeah, I needed some extra cash. Like you said go to the movies or you know, by, you know new pair of jeans or anything like that for survival 2 or ice cream. Yes ice cream, but you know, it's a it wasn't probably till I want to say like

37:39 87 or so, maybe where the US Olympic Committee started giving us some monthly per diems. It was pretty then from then, you know that but even that I mean, you know, thankfully I feel like maybe $200 that they would give us but you know who you know, I mean we made it work. Yeah, I think it's really hard for people to understand that you know that you say, oh you were in the Olympics. I bet you it was all great and maybe that's what I was talking about and I had all this other baggage, you know, it was but it was great.

38:14 Yeah, it was I do it all over again. I would too. I mean like I said and just coming here to this reunions to see you all and just so you know, thank back about the great experiences that we've had is you know for me, it's nice to see how well everyone is doing and I think that's important as I was set earlier about the quality people that team handball has and its family. It is amazing. It's it really is and you know, I kind of look back cuz I said, you know, there's probably something positive that you know, I learned or or took from all my teammates because of the qualities, you know, they're just like trying to you know

38:59 Just like you say I want to be like Coke cuz you know, you know has this quality or

39:09 That definitely has molded me and you know, I think into somewhat of a good person so absolutely absolutely