Carolyn Hyppolite and Kiplyn Primus

00:05 My name is kiplyn Primus. I'm 57 years old today is August 27th. I'm in across Thana and I'm talking with my roommate for the year of the return.

00:19 My name is Carolyn hyppolite. I am 39 today is August 27th. I am at Akron city, and I'm talking with my roommate Kipling for the year the return so Carolyn first. Can you share why it was important for you to be a part of this very large group of folks during the year of return.

00:43 I decided that I wanted to go to Africa last year prior to hearing about the announcement. I was convinced that my people from Benin and I intended to visit Benin.

00:59 When I discovered that the president of Ghana had called the CEO of return I realized people were going to be coming here. I was not going to have much luck trying to convince everybody to go to bed with me, which is not an English-speaking country. And so it makes sense to go to Ghana this year.

01:25 I don't think I'd realized when I decided that I wanted to go this year that we would be commemorating before hundred year anniversary of the first Africans for enslaved in Virginia. It hadn't really been part of my storical Consciousness. But once I discovered that I also knew that I had to go I chose this trip because of the Jamestown Sun Jamestown theme, which I thought was a beautiful way of commemorating the slaves to maze from one Jamestown to another and for me. I totally fell into the symbolism of going from doing a reverse transatlantic migration from one Jamestown to another

02:17 So, what did you think of the Jamestown Virginia commemoration? Because for a lot of us it really was the first time that that 1619 date became part of our consciousness.

02:32 So, what did you think?

02:35 I think there were some missed opportunities unfortunately.

02:41 The part that really was meaningful to me was the opportunity.

02:56 The part that was really meaningful to me was the opportunity to write a letter to my ancestors and to put it in the flame which mirrored something we did back at them.

03:13 Jamestown foot the last River

03:20 So

03:21 And I wish I could speak to me of apologist. We had artifacts from the slaves and kind of showed us things that they were keeping them from Africa and that was really touching and they took their work very seriously, and then you could tell if they were emotional about what they did.

03:52 And what they were preserving and that was really beautiful to speak to them about the enslaved Africans who it been there.

04:03 I thought the fact that they had found some of those artifacts in situ is what they said. So they hadn't been Disturbed for you know centuries and there were calorie shells but the one that really sparked my attention and I don't know if you remember it was a watermelon be that was definitely from Africa and it I don't know for me. That was it was amazing that we leave, you know our something of ourselves where we've been but for those things to have been there for

04:40 400 years or more are you going to 400 years or less but within the time of enslaved Africans and I thought that was very moving for me.

04:52 It's spoke to hope that people might have had it that they could hide this I presume until that time that they figured out how to get back home and then they will retrieve it and you think about maybe this was a gift. This was a something the third passed down from family members and they hope to keep it in bring it with them back home, which I imagine was on everybody's mind when they made the first turning sexually touching.

05:26 So we landed in Accra Ghana and it was a whirlwind when we got off the airport, but you know the Jubilee House the Taurus board, but it was that welcoming ceremony at Old Jamestown. That was the most moving for me. What did you think about that ceremony? What are your feelings about being welcomed by the chief with the reef of Nia and shaking the president of Ghana tan?

06:03 Dad first

06:06 Visit to Jamestown with the chase is a turning point in the trip for me. As you said before that. It has been a whirlwind of be on buses going to museums getting on a plane by sitting on the plane, which was hot for hours, by the way.

06:30 Getting on more buses trying to get all our stuff sorted out to check in just a little bit and

06:41 Fact

06:43 Moment. You felt welcome. I think they did an excellent job of just making us feel welcome and it's a little bit different in our culture because

07:00 In America, we give speeches you tell people that you're welcome and you tell them why they welcomed it and I can see that that's not the culture here on the streets. Don't really speak. I thought the president would say something but he didn't he shook our hands and now with it but his presence was so meaningful and their present was

07:28 Meaningful and I felt like I really am wanted here and that's I think for us.

07:39 Really powerful because I don't think as descendants of enslave Africans does always have confidence that will want it back here so him doing that was really special.

07:55 I'm going to ask this.

07:57 Now because you're kind of mentioning yet because I felt like the president of Ghana was there. He didn't speak but he shook our hands and said welcome home.

08:12 At the same time the president of the United States where I'm a citizen of and where you live and work.

08:21 Was encouraging, you know chance of send her back and it the juxtaposition of those two things.

08:30 It is it it's something I've had so many mixed emotions, but how do you feel about that?

08:39 I'm not one of those who lets Trump get under my skin and I think a lot of people are like really gets under people's skin and can't get on your mind.

08:52 But what he has done for me is reveal Americans.

08:59 It's not him. It's the millions of people whose voice Echoes that is powerful to me.

09:12 And

09:15 I do think as black people. We having been here for so long and continuing to

09:24 Find ourselves in this state of not being quite at home and don't get me wrong. African-Americans are home. They have a right to this land called America and I am not at all suggesting that anyone should.

09:46 Jump ship because you're not home in this isn't your home?

09:50 But

09:52 I do think.

09:54 In my own lifetime, I will look back on this moment as a time when we as children of enslaved Africans transition into a new era.

10:10 In terms of how we relate to the United States how we relate to the African continent and there will be something that will change the way your transformation and how we see ourselves how Africans we've always been on the continent see themselves and how we relate to each other and I don't quite know with the form of that will be but I ignited something and it's not going to be a year when we toured and that was interesting. I absolutely don't think that that's where this is going.

10:42 And now you participated with the business Summit and

10:49 I was really kind of amazed at the opportunity. I mean we've come up with about a hundred different businesses over the last few days. That would be successful here. Why did you want the business Summit to be part of your trip? And what are you taking away from those two days that you spent meeting with Business Leaders from Ghana?

11:13 The second reason I chose this particular trip was because of the business Summit. So I wanted to do the Jamestown to Jamestown and wanted to do the business Summit.

11:22 To me. It's a no-brainer.

11:26 Africa has opportunities, Thor and it's one of the remaining places on the planet where?

11:40 If you can think of it, yes, it's needed you need to do it. Whatever it is. No matter how small you think it is. Go ahead and do it. There's an opportunity to do it. It was important to me because

11:58 Part of me feels as always felt. This is my home. This is my Birthright and

12:05 It is a land brimming with opportunity challenges, but I was challenges that I feel like I shouldn't be there and I don't know if that makes sense to people but this should be the richest continent on the planet. It has the most industrious people I've ever seen and I don't think I'm being biased and say that I was sitting on the bus last night and there no street lights in some of these places and it is dark and if you have not gone to sleep there still working there still hustling and I saw them hustling in the morning. So as far as I could tell there working till 16 hour days and they are moving constantly energy is here and the resources are here and

12:57 Send me one of the things we can take from our experience in the dyaspora is the West has something to teach the world about how you take resources in human capital and turn it into wealth and for whatever reason which still reflecting on that is something that has not been done here the wall first year. The intelligence is here. The industriousness is here but that has not been translated to you in capital letters have lots of conversations with people about that both Africans and the Americans were traveling with me and

13:41 I'm still thinking about it. But I think wow once we deal with those obstacles and even maybe get out of our own way. It's going to be amazing and I want to be a part of it.

13:55 So you are also promoting your Co-op and it's a business opportunity and I was really surprised that there are folks in Ghana who are part of your community that we you met with when we were on the cape house. I'd just share a little bit about the co-op what its purposes and why you think that might be a way to bridge Africans in America and Africans are on the continent.

14:24 One of the things I think I've ruined America as well as Africans here have trouble with is access to Capital.

14:34 APUSH take a step back and tell you that I am with us lifting us which is a cooperative for people of African descent. We have five hundred members are spread throughout the world really we have seven members here in Ghana hundreds in America. We have a member in Haiti. You have a African Senegalese who lives in Poland or Ireland. I think he was in Europe somewhere and he's a member. He's actually on our board so I should know where he lives and we have board meetings that are done remotely because the members are spread throughout the country and one of them is not even on the continent.

15:22 I'm one of the board members. What we do is we pull people together to work and what we think is he more African centered approach to economic life, which is cooperative as opposed to competitive economics.

15:39 And

15:41 It's a very Democratic board. We debate our decisions and we talked openly about how we should work cooperatively. Our model is distributive. And so

15:58 When we turn a profit the goal is to shared with employees as well as members.

16:09 As opposed to Evan there rules around, you know, if you had a high-ranking executive how much could that executive make in comparison to the lowest paid person in the company. So those rules are designed to create a system in which sharing occurs in which moon to is practice.

16:33 It's also practical most of us don't have a lot of money. So most of us don't have a lot of money to invest in any particular Venture, but collectively in America. We've got a trillion dollars spending power and globally, I don't know what we have but we can pull those resources together and start those in their endeavors.

16:58 It's also for me important.

17:01 That no one person enjoys off because then we don't I don't even know that that one person can enjoy the loss of one of the things that I think baffles me about some of the ways a small segment of Africans I living and by Africans I don't just mean that fans on the continent. So I think I hate you don't leave got like a tiny percentage of people left him the money or how could you enjoy that money on you walk out of your beautiful house and the road is awful and your car breaks down every couple of years because you can't have reliable Worldstar your communis frustrating because you don't have reliable roads or your lights can be turned off at any point because we don't have a reliable electricity. And yes, you probably won't be enough to have backup generators and all of that, but I just think even though rich

17:56 Can benefit from creating off for all Africans rather than a few and so our goal is to focus on how can we create a stable middle-class lives for his many black people as possible so that even those of us who become millionaires will have a better consumer base to purchase our products.

18:24 So on the third day, I believe it was we left across and went to Cape Coast.

18:32 I have been told before coming that they're three reactions to the cape Coast dungeons one of sadness one of anger or numbness. What was your experience like? And what were your overall feeling?

18:54 Mine is a combination of numbness and sadness.

18:57 It wasn't I didn't cry it was under the surface toe.

19:04 I mean it was just

19:08 I was in awe of.

19:11 Knowing that I was standing in a graveyard.

19:17 A tour guide describe an analysis on the ground floor had to reveal that. It was covered with blood saliva sweat feces.

19:30 And the first room we in turn have been scraped. I don't know what half an inch to an inch of material. I've been lifted off Bad Bunny like to see this is the original Granite is what it looks like in its braking.

19:46 And when you walk to the next room is completely different and it's fake and it's black and you can tell if there's different textures different things going and knowing history original. Here's what most of it looks like when it hasn't been scraped. You can tell oh my gosh, there are layers and layers of stuff that stuff is literally human body parts in one form or another has been kicked into a layer and uterus you're walking on it.

20:31 I don't even know what to say about that. I don't have any emotion to describe you're walking on dead bodies right now. The only other room that was equally emotional is when we went to the male prison where

20:49 African to a belt with basically left for dead

20:53 And your two doors

20:57 Which were left open?

20:59 But starter guide explained that they would normally be closed and people would be closed in.

21:05 I was in there for about less than 2 minutes and I was at already started sweating and I just thought about how hot

21:15 It caught and how they died in that room of starvation in heat That Shook Me.

21:26 I felt anger.

21:29 As I walked outside of each room and their vendors

21:34 On the property and this is something that I want the tourism.

21:42 Leaders industry to consider as they

21:48 Invite us to come here.

21:51 I want to participate in the economy in the development of Ghana. I don't think I'm unique and that feeling.

22:01 I saw many of us spending money that we shouldn't spend in bites that we should have bought just because we really want to support Canadians and Africans economically and I we participated in a business Summit because we want to know how to do that. Well,

22:18 I don't think there's any reason to question our desire to economically support the people support because I feel like support is condescending. I want to engage with business partners. I have not done a single charity work since I've been here. I haven't given anyone anything. I don't intend to because I want to have business partners. I want to have people who feel like they've been treated with respect and with fairness, dignity as the industrial human beings. They are

22:59 But if I learn to bargain, I learn to sort of bargain as an equal as opposed to some of the

23:06 Overly generous economic exchanges that I engaged in when I was

23:13 Initially introduced to the place that I did out of both naivete and perhaps a little bit of pity and I'm learning not to do that. So all of that to say the economics is a part of why we're here and has to happen Cape Coast is sacred ground and Ghana has to figure out how to create a buffer returnees so that when they walk out of that space they can have a moment to mourn their ancestors without somebody trying to sell something.

23:51 I agree and I didn't expect it, but my overall feeling was one of numbness and when we got to the hotel that night which was beautiful the Coconut Grove Beach Resort, you kept saying it was cold and honest, I'm one of those people always tell people on the coldest fat girl. You'll ever meet I'm always cold and I kept saying to you. I'm not cold. I'm not cold and then when we woke up that morning, we were in the icebox. I mean it was freezing.

24:23 And I just didn't expect that numbness to to be so real but it's even for me. It's still hard to kind of process would actually went fine. And for me, it was the female sale because I strongly feel like I would have been there because

24:44 It was it was just so horrifying and I I stood in that sell for 2 or 3 minutes and it was no light. I mean there was a small slit where they may have put food but it was far away from the you know, from where you were actually placed in the ceiling was low. So if you were a tall person you you probably couldn't even stand up right and I'm still trying to really process that our our next stop was the last River where the slaves were brought if they said for polishing and were able to have a slight reprieve for food before they marched to the cape Coast dungeons. What are your memories and feelings of of that?

25:38 It was very beautiful to walk along the road that the slice walk along that River. We were instructed to collect some water from the river and now we're getting these little I'm containers back to the big box.

25:57 And then we again wrote to our ancestors and

26:06 Put it in a bonfire with some weight in the waters. And we song we shall overcome. It was very emotional was very beautiful. I felt like

26:18 I'd really should have walked in their path and a commemorative way and that I had returned that I had returned to reconnect to the place that they had.

26:31 Journey, and that I journey through them and that.

26:37 Wait at your genes have memory.

26:42 I had come back and so I have to come back on their bath. And so that that was beautiful. You mentioned genes having memory and it reminded me that you did the African ancestry reveal at the cape Coast dungeons that night. There was a program how do you feel about getting your African ancestry? And what does it mean to you now that you know the ethnic group that your DNA closely resembles?

27:14 So

27:17 I'm still processing it only because I had personally box myself also a few years ago. I did ancestry ancestry is a little different in terms of how they do theirs. And I guess maybe they do a combination of your mother and your father and white things come from Nigeria doesn't really come up for me. I don't think I think it's the Coco and then Congo was the second largest.

27:48 I had it prior to even taking the ancestry test been two years ago. He like four years ago reading Haitian history and connecting Haitian history back to

28:02 A lot of us who came to the ports of diorite now you are since I've gotten my test. I thought well just because they came through the ports of tile mate doesn't mean the people with diamonds.

28:15 But is a statue in a lot of pain in of Toussaint l'ouverture one of our national heroes. There's all of this been in connection when I look at practices of Haitian Voodoo and the modern-day practices in Benin, there's so much overlap like the names of the same as zeely is one of the laws in Haiti and they still, you know, celebrate facility here. So in my mind I am from bananas been from Vernon.

28:49 And when I came back your butt Nigeria, I'm just surprised and it's nothing more from Yerba or Nigeria at all. But I have all these years invested like I

29:06 Last year, I read all these books about banana and how to dye a human tribe develop in this particular King who rebelled against like the traditional / system because he wanted a different.

29:20 Relationship with the Europeans and how they fought him and and then some of the war tactics very similar to our taxes that has been used in Haiti. And so that's what we get it from. Oh my gosh, my mind was absolutely convinced of a particular identity and I'll have to rethink everything. And so I think I got to do my dad's DNA to see if there's something in there and I probably won't have any any and then I have to lie prefect but that's all I'm feeling is like, oh I have to wait to learn all of this new stuff and I am not what I thought I was just

30:05 It's not disappointing in and that's the wrong word. I just I had gotten myself so emotionally invested in a particular narrative that it's difficult to change my mind about that into wrap my head around this new reality.

30:25 But the Yoruba religion has a lot of overlays with Haiti as well. And the other thing she continued to talk about the nomadic people in the area. So maybe they had come from Bonanza Nigeria out of

30:44 So when we left I think it was one of the very first Nations that had a chief apologize for the transatlantic slave trade that I think they did it like in the 90s.

30:59 In fact, that's just something that I've always kept in my heart. That was very beautiful, but it came out of Benin.

31:06 Until we left from the river and headed to Kumasi which is the Ashanti lands and we learned about the golden stool. We learned about the queen Chief who fought the British, you know, a lot of history that I didn't wasn't it's familiar with so to speak and also that the kids had always had a little bit more wealth than the people on the coast because of the chief who brought all of the Chiefs together to to be under one king. So they were very United earlier than most other ethnic groups or ethnic tribes that may have still been kind of battling and also they had more resources in the Hinterlands that they kept saying then the people on the coast. So what was your overall feeling about kamasi and being there in the Ashanti Kingdom?

32:07 It's funny how you can connect a failed to connect to a place. I thought I was looking forward to going to come on. What's the wealthy region and personally be familiar with some of that history of when the British wanted the golden School in that Governor wanted to sit on it and deal with it through the line like no. No, we will not allow you to go there as a person of African descent. I never thought I was

32:42 I thought that would be a place that I can connect to that. I would connect to and perhaps as I think about what I moved to Africa, where would I go? Maybe that would be it. I did not experience that here at kamasi and it's funny when I when we drove back.

33:02 From Kumasi to Accra as we got to across I thought I'm so glad to be back home even use the word home and I was talking to a friend last night and he said the same thing like I felt like what I came to a Lacroix that I came back home, I see this beautiful. It's rich and I appreciated the

33:32 The culture of the people the textile that they were producing it made me think that go in Africa, I think about the business opportunities and what can be done here and I thought about as we start with some stuff to stop over here's a business opportunity. Here's an opportunity to perhaps acting technology and make something more efficient here is some export opportunities.

33:57 But that was it like it is feels like I could see myself reaching out to these people and doing business in some way. I couldn't see myself being there and I'm glad you like it feels like that's home base.

34:14 I remember we went to the festival and you were upset cuz there is no cotton candy know but I can clearly and their idea if that's what it's two different things and we were welcomed by the elders and the queen mother and you know, it was nice and everyone was dressed beautifully in their African Garb but it wasn't our idea of a festival. Yeah. I know. I thought we were going to be going to Booth I didn't think there would be like you don't Ferris Wheel rides you do anything like that, but I thought they would be something similar like it would be fun activities things to buy and maybe it'll cotton candy was a bit much but just did not meet my definition of the Festival of it was of course in the spirit of welcoming that everybody.

35:06 It exudes incel they were very gracious and welcoming us. But that did not leave me with any sense of attachment or homogeneous. And the next day was nice. It was just oh I got to see that but it's not the same feeling and everywhere that we stopped. We were welcomed by the Chiefs and the elders and on the first night in Jamestown a craw the Chiefs and Elders were all dressed in white and I know that that's a tradition in the African American Church in the US and I believe that's also a tradition in Haiti the the elders and wider the you know, the church ladies and why is that the case?

35:54 In voodoo rituals there are times when you wear white after be honest, I don't know what the weight means perhaps actually you could tell us why the latest in treacherous and white but do you know what that's a good question. I'll have to look into that what is with the weight but there are events where you wear all white and it'd be good to know what that what that's about. But I always love

36:26 When I find a way.

36:30 Are we friends or something? I went to this Nigerian restaurant back and Atlanta Stone Mountain a few months back and the fish sauce to be similar to what my mom could have made and I took a picture I put on Facebook and my cousin responded. Hey, you know back in Haiti. My grandfather used to make Fufu. He called the TomTom and like really I had no idea and it's just amazing to me that we have been able to maintain some of these things. So I'm going to look into the white and see what what that means and how we preserved it now. I just want to ask a little bit about you and your family. You're from Haiti. Could you tell me what you remember about your grandparents and something about your parents?

37:21 I have for illiterate grandparents. One of them was from the city. My paternal grandparents lived out in the country.

37:35 Gosh, I don't know my grandparents on my Haitians are very connected to Haiti and the village where they're from and they really didn't want to be in America their travel to visit their kids.

37:54 My parents especially my dad a very attached to Haitian culture. So I like different kinds of food. And remember one time. I can't remember. I was telling him that I think like Indian food is the best food in the world of whatever it was.

38:18 Hope you don't live here and we've lived here for a long time and we really haven't been back and

38:26 I think

38:28 With my parents always remind me of is the sacrifices we make.

38:34 To live a question life cuz I don't even think they lived Western like they could have lived but they wanted us to live that life and I am burdened with wanting to

38:49 Honor the Sacrifice by making something of my life and I think you know, sometimes people talk about, you know, the industrious is of African immigrants. And why did you saw but I think part of that is you have to secure your parents give up all these things for you. And you feel like you have to repay them back by being successful.

39:13 And what is the one thing if you you know get home and someone ask you about this trip? What is the one thing that you will probably share with everyone?

39:27 I mean I would share is you got to go yourself. I mean, that's really the only thing I want to say about it is.

39:38 Experience the Beauty and the challenges in the conflicts and

39:44 Experience halby Street smoke smell great experience how hard everyone works experience Street vendors are incredibly tenacious.

39:59 And I think as a black person experience the pathway that they walk through commemorated. Even if you think ultimately I'm going to stay somewhere in there as well. And I think some of us Absolution right? I don't think all however hundred millions of us are out in America Brazil Haiti pack our bags and leave absolutely not like I think it's important to have that that has poor connection. It's important that we are connected across the globe.

40:34 But come connect take

40:40 Some of that with you, whatever it is that you are going to learn about yourself and it might be a recognition. That's why we do that or it might be. Oh, that's maybe we shouldn't do something that we've been doing maybe something we've been doing now is a way we've been conditioned by our slave in flavors and how did they get back to us? Because they wanted us to flourish. Was that something that was used to control as I think you're going to have those moments where you look at something and you think that's not of African people and I'm going to shut that I've been to take that back to Atlanta, Mississippi, Tennessee Port-au-Prince Rio Kingston, Jamaica, wherever you are that I asked for it take it back with you and create like

41:35 Agnew Africa out there Carol and I love it. Thank you so much for taking the time. I know how busy we've been. So thank you so much.