Cesar Briones and Manuela Velasquez

[00:03] MANUELA VELAZQUEZ: I'm Manuela Velazquez. I'm 23. It's July 6, 2023. I'm here in Kalamazoo, Michigan, talking with Cesar, my new friend, my conversation partner.

[00:15] CESAR BRIONES: Well, thank you. My name is Cesar Briones You can call me Cesar It's fine. I'm 35. And today is July 6, Kalamazoo, Michigan. And I'm here with Manuela Velazquez and she's gonna be my conversation partner today.

[00:29] MANUELA VELAZQUEZ: Yeah. So, Cesar, tell me, tell me everything you mentioned right before we started. That you were born in the former Soviet Union. I would love to hear about that.

[00:40] CESAR BRIONES: Was born in the former Soviet Union. So I am a complete Nicaraguan. I identify myself as nicaraguan through and through. Both of my parents are from Nicaragua. But here's the thing, I don't know if you're familiar. Are you with Nicaragua? But Nicaragua in the eighties, we have this aninista revolution, right? Yeah. So that means it was the before and after of history of our country. And a lot of our family, mine included, they took part of the revolution. My mom and my dad are two former guerrillas. For example, after the revolution won, they were given the chance to continue what they were doing, and they continued student psychology in the university. Both of them were already students at the beginning, but they stop starting to engage basically in on the ground clandestine guerrilla warfare. So it just happened, right? They continue studying. You know, they involve other things. My mom is one of the brigadiers, they call them brigade member that taught how to read and write to the entire population. It was called the National Literacy Crusade. Anyhow, long story short, trying to rebuild the country. Authorities of university says, what do you want to do or continue teaching? So how about we get you sent, both of you, to get your PhD in psychology and then it will go to the Soviet Union, right? At that time, my parents were not in any type of relationship. They were just acquaintance and this. But they were sent to the Soviet Union and they were sent with a bunch of displayed Tashken, which is now Uzbekistan, where they spent an entire year in Tashkent by mistake because they were supposed to go to graduate school, but it's an entire undergrad. But that's why they fall in love and then like they get married. And they were sent together to what is now Ukraine, Kiev, the capital that Ashrafenko University. And that's what I was born in 1988, two years after Chernobyl.

[02:25] MANUELA VELAZQUEZ: Wow.

[02:25] CESAR BRIONES: Very close to it. I have supernumerary teeth, which is mean that I have teeth that are like around when it shouldn't be, really. They all get removed. But I always joke that it was because of Chernobyl, but it wasn't. But that is pretty much what I got. So after that, I was sent back to my home country, maybe less than a year. So I have no memory of recollection of anything that happened there. I just know that my parents spent like ten, like almost a decade of. They finished their classes, they defended dissertation, and they came back. In the meantime, my mom apparently was very difficult to maintain themselves and me and a newborn baby in a huge apartment complex in the former Soviet Union. So my grandmother took care of me in Nicaragua, and she is my mother, by all means. She passed away in 2018, and she raised me as a son. They came back later, my parents, and, you know, pretty much that was it. And then we moved to Canada, to Montreal for like, five years.

[03:24] MANUELA VELAZQUEZ: How old were you when you moved to Canada?

[03:25] CESAR BRIONES: I went for, like, five years.

[03:27] MANUELA VELAZQUEZ: Wow. Yeah.

[03:27] CESAR BRIONES: So my sister was born in Canada. She's canadian, and I can speak French because I spend most of my elementary time in Montreal, Canada, which I have great memories of being in Canada. That's when I first know the snow. So when I came to Kalamazoo, Michigan, I was like, okay, I know what this is. I was not expecting that it was to be so cold because I came here in my thirties, and I remember when I was five years old, it was completely different. And I was like, okay, so that's pretty much it, you know? Then we came back to Nicaragua. Things were not looking great in Canada. I think my parents didn't want it to be. Nothing bad with it, but they wanted to be, you know, workers in a factory. They already did some work, and they were psychologists, they were professors, you know, like, they were like that. So they. The things were very difficult at home. So they returned back and they said, we would rather be, you know, being at home with all the difficulties. But we worked so hard to be where we are, at least in degrees and studies, that we don't want to lose that. So we came back home, and in 2015, I became a Fulbright fellow, and I came here to get my master's degree and then my PhD, and that is where I'm at right now. Fun fact, when I came here, the same time, I met in Moscow, Idaho.

[04:40] MANUELA VELAZQUEZ: Oh, I've heard of that.

[04:42] CESAR BRIONES: You've heard of Moscow?

[04:42] MANUELA VELAZQUEZ: I have heard of Moscow.

[04:43] CESAR BRIONES: Sorry, Moscow. That was when it was like the Fulbright enrichment seminar. And I met this person who was going to be also a student at Western Michigan University. Her name is Julia Sergeyva. She's actually also from Ukraine, and she happens to be now my wife.

[04:56] MANUELA VELAZQUEZ: Really?

[04:57] CESAR BRIONES: Yes.

[04:57] MANUELA VELAZQUEZ: Oh, my God.

[04:58] CESAR BRIONES: So I have been back to Ukraine.

[05:00] MANUELA VELAZQUEZ: Yeah.

[05:01] CESAR BRIONES: On 2017 back, quote, unquote, with her to visit her family. So that was the first time that I technically went back to the place that I was born, and. Yeah, so that's a fun twist. So when my wife goes to Nicaragua with me, vacation or whatever, I don't speak Russian or Ukrainian, but my parents can speak Russian because they spent ten years with them. So both of my parents can speak with my wife, but I don't understand what is happening. Also, my parents don't speak English, so it's always, like, a language that isn't that, but, yeah, a funny thing.

[05:36] MANUELA VELAZQUEZ: Yeah, that is so funny. And yet the element of Ukraine coming back into your life, literally. Wow. It sounds like. I mean, you have so many different places that you've lived and places that have, like, become important to you. And I think, like, holding all of that in mind, I'm wondering, what. What does home mean to you and, like, what makes a home?

[05:58] CESAR BRIONES: That's a very good question, and I wish I could have an answer for that. I do not have. I. To my chagrin, I have made this place home, too, and it's something that I don't particularly like it.

[06:11] MANUELA VELAZQUEZ: Really?

[06:11] CESAR BRIONES: Yes. I'm angry, actually, I'm angry that when I come to Kalamazoo after a trip, I found that, homie, really, I'm angry.

[06:18] MANUELA VELAZQUEZ: Do you want to talk about why?

[06:20] CESAR BRIONES: Yeah, I can talk about why I don't want to be an immigrant. And when I mean with the immigrant, I mean. Sorry. What I mean with this is that I have a home country, and it is Nicaragua, and that's the place that I want to be, is where my family's at. It's where everybody, I want to have a backyard that we can grow dragon fruit in my house, for example. Having said that, I also find it very pleasant here and very comfortable, and I have found incredible friends, and I have found a wife that I will hopefully build a family with. And I found so many opportunities to grow as a person, intellectually, academically. So I found here a lot of things that is homey, uncomfortable, and I hate it. This weird thing that. I hate that it's. One time this happened, I was at home visiting my. My house. Right. My mom's house. And. And whenever I go, there's. Everything falls into places. This is normalist what I would have known after a time, I become. I forget when the romantic part of going to a place that you remember so homey. And so now it passes. Then other things come, you know, like life comes, right? I mean, whatever it is, the complication that it is in there, you know, like it. And then suddenly, after trying to navigate coming back and all the back and forth and whatever it is to kind of reengage in that, and suddenly my friends are still my friends, but we're different. And it makes sense. I spend a life changing experience here in Fulbright and doing so many things, it would be impossible if we didn't change. But when I go back, so things are the same at the same time. They're very different. So then I found myself sometimes when I'm at home and my childhood, my entire life bedroom. And I found that I miss my bed here in Kalamazoo. And that's when I realized that I also feel home here. And I hate it because I feel that I'm not from here, but I'm not from there either. So when I go back to what is my home, I feel home to a point. And people also see me and they're like, oh, you're visiting? And I'm like, yes, I am visiting, but this is my place, too. So it's this weird thing in which is that, that I'm not here enough. That's what I mean. I don't want to be an immigrant, that I don't want to feel that I am not from here and I'm not from there. So when I go back home, I'm still this person, but I have new experiences and different way to see life. So I don't entirely fit with the same vibe that I was before seven years, eight years ago. And when I come here, obviously, I'm also not from here. So you see what I'm saying?

[09:07] MANUELA VELAZQUEZ: I do, yeah. That's an interesting place to be in sort of like an in and in between liminal space the whole time. Yeah.

[09:14] CESAR BRIONES: Living in between. So it's. So I'm angry at myself that I like it here, if that makes some sense.

[09:23] MANUELA VELAZQUEZ: It does make sense. Of course, my natural inclination is to say it's okay to like it here and love it there, too. But I understand that, like, you know, there is. Yeah. Feeling not quite anywhere can bring about, like, anger, discomfort, other strange feelings. It's hard to know, like, you know, well, you mentioned you're in your thirties. It's hard to know, like, you've lived so much life and yet you still have so much to keep building towards. Perhaps. Do you feel like moving back to Nicaragua is something that you'd be wanting to do with your wife, or is that.

[09:53] CESAR BRIONES: It's something that I would love to do.

[09:55] MANUELA VELAZQUEZ: Yeah.

[09:56] CESAR BRIONES: But I know also that is very much, realistically, almost impossible.

[09:59] MANUELA VELAZQUEZ: Yeah.

[10:01] CESAR BRIONES: I also need to consider my wife. She's a very successful woman that, you know, her career. She has three master degrees in engineering. She's a very smart, dedicated person who just got a job at Carnegie Mellon University. So I cannot just be. I want to go back to Nicaragua because I want to grow record food in my backyard. She also has a career and a profession, and I'm immensely proud of her accomplishment. And that's one of the reasons why I love her. And I decide to, you know, to be with her. The same thing happens to me. So I do know that even if I wanted to go back to Nicaragua and say, well, whatever happens, happens, I know that. It's just there is no place for me at home. And that's another thing, too. What I mean, there's no place for me at home is that my career, my achievement, there is no place for me at home, if that makes some sense, you know, so. And then at the same time, so, yeah, I'm like. So it sounds to me like a double edged sword. I came here and I feel so accomplished. The thing that I've done and, you know, a lot of things that I've been able to do. At the same time, this success, on my view of, although has been, like, very daunting, is the same thing that has made me not fit in my country. Even in the expectation of find a job, for example, like teaching position or researcher position, or if they exist, they're very badly paid, or countries suffer from that. Right? I mean, we suffer from that. We are still a developing country. The whole thing is that I also love my country and I want to be there. But at the same time, even if I wanted to say, I don't care, I'm gonna leave, you know, like, very poor, but I wanna do what I love. I could never do that to my. To my family, my wife, for example. So, although that I wish to, it sounds to me like it will be like going to Alice in Wonderland. It just doesn't exist, because those two things, unfortunately, don't exist in my country. And that also gives me, you know, conflicting things. So I don't know. There's a lot of things in my. That I talk. That is the answer to those things is like, I really don't know.

[12:25] MANUELA VELAZQUEZ: Okay. To not know the answer.

[12:26] CESAR BRIONES: Right.

[12:26] MANUELA VELAZQUEZ: That's the whole. The whole. I guess life is the journey and not the answer. It's like continuing to come up with different questions, I guess so. I'm wondering, too, because, like, well, obviously there's all of these, you know, new experiences and considerations of life and, like, where you are and where you want to go after, I don't know, after coming to America, after meeting your wife, things like that. And I'm wondering too, like, where was the question that I wanted to ask you? It was, okay, I can't find it. But the gist of it was, it was kind of like, how has your life been different than you expected? And are there elements of your life that you never would have thought would have been part of your life?

[13:15] CESAR BRIONES: Yeah, okay. That's a good question. I'm not so sure. Again, I grew up in a family. Two of my parents were college professor, university professor. So I always was close to me. All of this actually being in university and academic circle, it's just pretty much normal. I mean, like, it was. What I grew up to was normal, right? I mean, but I never expect. But I was not. It's not like I was forced to anything, but I going to stay in a university setting, academia, it's not unsurprising for me. It will be like, okay, sure, I even. I'm named the same as my dad, so whatever. No, but what I think is that I never expected that I would live for a long period of time, almost like eight years in this country, and continue in doing that. I am not allowed to stay in this country. That's the other part of it. And I. So I don't know what is gonna happen, but I think that I never imagined myself younger, that right now I would be so torn towards different, sometimes very distant concept and feelings that I would have so much conflicting feelings, but at the same time, being not comfortable with this conflicting feeling, but kind of like understanding them. Like, kind of the fact that I understand that although I love my country so much and I would like to be there, there's other things at play that might not be that possible. So that I'm also kind of like, at peace. Being torn at this point, what daunts me, it's daunting for me, and it fills me full of dread, is that my mom is there, for example, and I love her immensely. And I'm concerned that she. That I will not be there. She grows old, if that makes some sense. So I'm always worried when she gets sick or something, what is going to happen. And it also pains me that I'm not there. My sister is also here in the United States studying culinary schools. They're going to be a chef, so she's in Chicago, so I don't know what to do. So I never expected to be torn. I thought that I was going to be, like, chill on my 35, but it hasn't been like that.

[15:31] MANUELA VELAZQUEZ: Yeah, it's like your life and the people that you love are in so.

[15:35] CESAR BRIONES: Many different places, and I want them all the same place. And that is physically impossible.

[15:40] MANUELA VELAZQUEZ: Yeah, I think so. For someone who. I've never been to Nicaragua. I've never seen your home, and I am curious because you expressed so much love for it. Could you paint me a picture of what your home looks like and feels like and who's there, like, when you're there?

[15:56] CESAR BRIONES: Yeah. Well, first of all. Okay, so can I swear?

[15:59] MANUELA VELAZQUEZ: Yeah, you can swear.

[16:00] CESAR BRIONES: Okay. So it's hot as fuck. Number one of Nicaragua. It's hot as fuck. It's all the time fucking hot. I'm sorry, this is a story I was in again. Fulbright enrichment seminar. I was this person from Austria, very, very, very nice young woman, another student from Fort Red. And she's like, oh, I've been in Nicaragua, actually. Oh, really? Like, what are you doing? I was backpacking. We're supposed to just, like, pass by to go to Costa Rica and ended up spending six months in your country. And I'm like, unsurprising is very nice. She came and said, I have a question for you. Have you ever gone to your job dry? And I was like, what do you mean by that? Like, I would take a shower and I will end it after the shower. And I was sweating already. And I'm like, yes, I've never been to my job dry. That is exactly correct. So it's really hot and it's really humid. It's really the jungle. Right? So we have a lot of, like, lakes and stuff like that, but also we have a lot of volcanoes, so you can do volcano board, and it's one of the things that I've done. You hike, you high, connect the volcano, you go up and you slide it down on the volcanic rock, like, and snowboard things. Yes. There's many active volcanoes. Volcanoes suggest, so that is kind of like that. But the other thing that I think that I believe that makes Nicaragua so special, because geography is similar in Central America is the Nicaragua is. Nicaraguans are particularly different, and it has to be with our history. We have been invaded, intervened by the United States seven times, and none of the seven time Nicaragua has subdued without nothing. Nicaraguas are very rebellious and they're very, like, angry at stuff until to this day, like, if you go to Costa Rica, they will say, nicaragua, I want you to speak too loud. They just move their hands too much because Ricochet are very calm, because we have a very turbulent and violent history. Julio Cortazol, the best writers in South America, great, great friend of nicaraguan revolution, he said, Nicaragua is so violently sweet. And it is, I think, one of the essence of it is always on dynamic and on the brink of reinventing itself, but also destroying and getting back. So we are very subversive in that regard as well, to this day. And I think that that is the nicaraguan identity, for example. I want identity. So we really. Yeah, we. We are disciplined, too. We're militant. We have accomplished so many things. And I think it has shown that, as they say, Nicaragua. Nicaragua have learned some time ago, too, that they can be the engineers of their history and the architect of their future. And I think that's the most important thing of all the people in there. They are very nice, but also protective of their own and what they. Their country and who they are. They don't take shit from anybody sometimes, but they have this immense heart that will welcome everybody. It's a weird combination of our people, to be honest. This is El Wance. This is the first play in the Americas. Yes. And it was inducted. It was part of the intangible patrimony of the mankind. Oyvonesco. So the story is about this merchant who is flirting with the daughter of the governor, spanish colonial governor, and he's making fun of him. Of him without noticing it. So it's satire. And so he's like, no, no, you, governor, you're the most beautiful of them all. You're the most morbid. It'll be so exaggerated that everybody but him will understand that they're making fun of him. And that is the idiosyncrasy of Nicaraguan, that even in the face of complete domination, they find a way to rebel and to maintain the rebellious spirit. I think that will be the most important things that I will describe as a people.

[19:56] MANUELA VELAZQUEZ: I can definitely. I mean, you called it violently sweet. I can see how. That's a great way to describe it. I can see how, you know, so many of the things that, like, make the place of the people just, I don't know, so expressively, like, I don't know, sharing in this identity and sharing in this way of, like, being and feeling like I can see you carrying that with you as, like, you. No, like, as you, like, navigate life elsewhere. Because it's like, more than like. It's like you were saying, like, you, you, you are neither here nor there. It's like you carry so much of that place as you experience the other places and experience life here. And you also mentioned earlier that to your chagrin, you feel like Kalamazoo is home, too, and you feel comfortable here. And I would love if you could describe to me, too, paint the picture for me, like, what makes kalamazoo feel like home to you, and what does it look like for you?

[20:49] CESAR BRIONES: This is a great question. It's home for me because people in Kalamazoo have been nothing but nice to me, and I, and being here in the United States is a little bit weird for me. I'm brown. I have an accent. I'm obviously latino. I have a name that mispronounced whatever, which I don't mind. At the same time, I don't have, I didn't have the same experience of my fellow Hispanic Latino in the United States. Right. I didn't grow up in here. I grew up at home in which, again, we didn't have luxuries. It's not like we have money, but we never were poor either. And my parents have something really value, education on top of anything else. So it was normal that we will not go out for pizza, for example, which I wanted to, but my parents will do, take us to the opera, for example. So they would be like, we don't have time for this type of games. But if you want. But like music, theater, all of the arts, like, yes, you want a book? It doesn't matter. The $50 a book, I will get it to you. You want a Game Boy? No game Boy. You know, so, so we're trying to say is that is, I feel a little bit weird being also here in the, in between. So in here we're working my university, I work working with latino students. And I do relate with that to some degree, but to the upbringing of the raising, I don't relate to that at all. So what I try to say with that is that here in Kalamazoo, I have found a, that I can be, I don't have to worry being navigating some stuff. I just am. And that's kind of fine. And I've never felt out of place in Kalamazoo, which I found myself out of place in other places as well. And also in Kalamazoo is, you know, epitome of welcomeness. But I personally, have felt welcome with that. I found great friends in here from all over the world and from the United States as well with the treasure professor that, you know. So in Kalamazoo is still, like, I think it's small enough that it makes it like a, you know, it's in the middle of, like, is it. Is it a big town or a small city? And that in between, you know, I think that's kind of a theme of my life in between. I apparently just realized it now. I like it. I like that you can go to, there's forests, there's lakes. There is great places, too. And there is also grand rapids or whatever if you want to have a city vibe. But I like the tranquility of here. It has its own, like, pace in itself. And honestly, the berries, the cherries, I've.

[23:20] MANUELA VELAZQUEZ: Been hearing about these berries. I need to find the summer berries.

[23:23] CESAR BRIONES: Yes, yes. We don't eat those things at home. All of them are important. We don't have the. The weather. So for me, that is luxurious as fuck. I'm like, yes. So I'm like, I go with my wife to do some cherry picking. I don't pick any cherry. I just eat them all until I'm full and I sit down and say I'm done. And my wife is just picking a lot of things because she's from Ukraine. She knows how to take care of that and take it home and have self control. I don't. So. Yeah, but again, if you go out to Nicaragua, you have dragon fruit, you know, so in mangoes everywhere. Like, if there were apples. So I think I like Alamazoo. And Michigan is a very beautiful, full of lakes, full of incredible stuff. I saw a kestrel outside of my window, an american casual samuda. I was terrified for my cat, but I. But it wasn't like it was a great bird.

[24:14] MANUELA VELAZQUEZ: Oh, wow.

[24:15] CESAR BRIONES: Anyhow, that is. That is kalamazoo. I like it.

[24:17] MANUELA VELAZQUEZ: Yeah. Wow. It definitely, you know, in the fruits at least, it's like you can have dragon fruit. You can have, you know, a pound of cherries. Both are delicious. So they are. I can't. I also don't know what it like. What does an american, american kestrel look like?

[24:33] CESAR BRIONES: Casserole.

[24:34] MANUELA VELAZQUEZ: The kestrel? Yeah.

[24:35] CESAR BRIONES: Oh, it's like a falcon.

[24:36] MANUELA VELAZQUEZ: Oh, like a falcon. Yeah, yeah. Watch out, your little animals.

[24:39] CESAR BRIONES: Yeah, no, no, exactly. Right? I mean, you see, they have, like, the. It's a bird of prey, so they're really huge and beautiful. So I don't know, like that thing. Here's kalamazoo like if you go a little bit more up north, it just. It changes everything. It's just beautiful. Honestly. Michigan, if you. You should go. You can see in the Comuna peninsula in the up. You can see the northern lights.

[24:59] MANUELA VELAZQUEZ: Oh, wow.

[25:00] CESAR BRIONES: Yes. I've never seen that, but I've heard that it's beautiful. So Michigan is kind of cool.

[25:04] MANUELA VELAZQUEZ: Yeah, it's interesting. I like what you were saying about to like you've had such a particular, you know, journey into where you are now. Like your upbringing, maybe that looks similar to a lot of other people's upbringings in the context of, like maybe other people in your community in Nicaragua have had similar experiences. But then you take that next step in your life where now you're, you know, well, Montreal and then you're in America and it's like now you're with all these other people who have come from different places. They've had certain upbringings. And it's interesting to kind of maybe never quite find someone with the exact same experience as you, but like still building community with people that are like, you know, kindred spirits, if nothing, kindred life paths.

[25:46] CESAR BRIONES: So let me give you a great example of that. I have great friends in which my job, I relate to them. His name is Jordan Johnson. He's an african american guy from Detroit. Very great friend of mine. The history of that. He's telling me about growing as an african American. And a lot of things that have to do with history. I relate in the political sense of Nicaragua, for example, the Contra war and crack cocaine and the funding of the country. So that's one point, right? I do relate with that and those type of things. So I feel that solidarity which I grew up again, my parents are two soviet educated psychologists. It was pretty much a marxist household. So that I relate with him. I go to this. It's a college bar. It's a college bar as you would get any type of college, like $2 a beer, crappy beer, 20 something. And I've been going there for a year after to go my bike ride. And I have made some friends, all of them very nice, you know, white male college students. And I have found at home with my friend Jordan, for example, as with them as well, because I don't look like these friends that I would apart but. Or bringing. They're similar in some regards, but also I am not one of them and I can see it as well. And with Jordan, I do relate and so many other things, but. Or bring him to a different. So it's kind of weird. But I think that this, in my view, is a pro that I feel like can fit in several places. So, no, I can feel comfortable in many situations. I think. Who knows?

[27:27] MANUELA VELAZQUEZ: Oh, no. You know, if you feel comfortable, I do feel comfortable.

[27:30] CESAR BRIONES: We have a trivia. We have a trivia team, and we won almost every Wednesday. We win all the time. And they're cool. But I think, you know, it's just like this being, like, a transplant, right? I mean, I'm from here. I have all of those things. So it's very impossible to find someone with exact particular of this. And that's pretty much. And that's the thing. What I like at home, all of my friends, we're the same, right? So we kind of grew up in the same, but at the same time, we have different experiences now as an adult that have changed us.

[28:04] MANUELA VELAZQUEZ: So you can find pieces of it everywhere. Like, even you were mentioning that you, like, when you were growing up, like, your parents wouldn't give you a game boy or something, like, listen to an opera. Here's a book that's very similar to my dad's upbringing who he grew up in Colombia. And he was like, yeah. It was like, okay, you can go to church or you can listen to a three hour opera. It was like, you can have whatever book you want. You can play whatever chess game you want. It was very much like, if you're gonna complain about being bored, do something productive with yourself. And it's just interesting, too. Like, I don't know. I feel like there's all these, like, your life is just, like, this beautiful mosaic, and you can, like, take little pieces from everywhere, and it all, you know, they can be distinct and also, like, a greater whole of yourself, you.

[28:44] CESAR BRIONES: Know, that's a great way to put it. And I really like your idea because sometimes it doesn't feel like that. Sometimes that is what gives me, you know, depression and anxiety of, am I here? Am I? You know, like, all of those uncertainties just drive me to it. But I really like the way that you put it as a mosaic that you can put in pieces up there. And I think it depends on the day, depends on the mood. I see it as a mosaic, or I see it as a mismatch of pieces that they don't match. And I'm like, what am I doing? Maybe I should start over, whatever this means. But you're right. I like the way that you have put it. I will remember that.

[29:20] MANUELA VELAZQUEZ: Thank you. I'm wondering, too. So, I mean, been loving this conversation. I feel like you are such a reflective person, and, like, whatever you're feeling on a given day, like, oh, this sucks, or off. My life is great. Like, I can see that. Like, you're thinking about it really intently. And you mentioned that, you know, you and your wife might want to start a family someday or grow that. And so I'm wondering for maybe future generations of your family that might listen to this or, you know, just thinking about your hypothetical future kids, is there any wisdom or advice that you'd want to pass on to them? Like, what would you want them to know?

[29:54] CESAR BRIONES: What did I want them to know? Wow, this. This is just deep conversation. I'm liking it. And, yes, we've been talking about that. And I think it's because, you know, my wife, she's from Ukraine. Her mom is here. We managed to get him evacuated in time. Her city was bombed multiple times. And also all of those things. It's interesting because the more death has never been so close to my life. My grandmother passed away in 2018. There was a loss that I'm still recovering. She was my mom, and I have, you know, love her so much. My wife also. His dad passed away from Ms, and then war, so. And all of those things. It's interesting. The closer to death it is also, I think it has made us really not the opposite, but the other side of it is life. So we're thinking about creating a family. Wisdom to my kids. I don't know. What I want for my kids is that they can feel proud of being 100% Nikkei one and 100% Ukrainian as well. I want them to be able to take those two part and have it as a whole. And I don't know. I wisdom, you know, I don't know. I don't want to say something cliche like, life is just a ride. So I'm gonna say something like, I wish we can all live life as cat lives their life. Yeah, they look outside and they understand the word, but they're just in a contemplative way. They don't try to change it. There's no sign of insecurity. There's no overthinking. There's no, you know, they don't think that they're not good cats. They're the best cats that they can be. That's the most cat a cat can be, is every cat. And that self worth? I think it's remulating. I don't know if we're gonna ever have that, but I know that for them is just love. I think it's that relates to everything. I'm sure that I will love them and hopefully they will love me. That's all I have to say. Live like a cat, I guess.

[31:59] MANUELA VELAZQUEZ: Like a cat. So as we approach sort of the end of our recording time, is there anything else you want to talk about or anything else you, you wanna leave us with on the audio, I guess, for posterity, for recording sake? I don't know. But really, if there's anything else you wanna talk about.

[32:15] CESAR BRIONES: Nothing. Well, yeah, maybe I should say this. So my dissertation is about youth community development. I research about youth voice. And I just wanna say that. Have it in the record that that is my topic of my dissertation. And I'm gonna be finished that this year and I'm so beat that. And also, at the same time, youth voices, how youth manifest themselves and personally and, you know, as a society, as a group. And I do think that if there's hope for a better world, it does rely on the younger generation, what they're gonna do with that. And I, for one, is one of the few things that every day, that is the only few thing that I'm really confident and hopeful about because there is power in that. And that is. That is, I think, the only thing that I wanted to say beside what I talk about.

[33:06] MANUELA VELAZQUEZ: Well, thank you so much, Cesar, for coming in and talking with me and sharing. I feel like I learned so much about you and I'm reflecting on life journeys.

[33:15] CESAR BRIONES: Well, thank you so much. I do enjoy this. I enjoy talking, and talking to you was very nice. You have very calm and student presence. Oh, thank you so I really appreciate that. Thank you so much.

[33:26] MANUELA VELAZQUEZ: It.