Dale Boesky, Jennifer Glass, and Sara Glass

00:03 My name is Jennifer glass and I am 31 and today's date is June 20th, 2015 and we are at the Chicago Cultural Center and I'm here with my grandfather Del Bosque who I call Papa.

00:26 My name is Del Bosque. I am 85 years of age. Today is June 19th. We were at the Chicago Cultural Center and with my wonderful granddaughter Jennifer glass and my daughter Sarah glass.

00:47 I'm Sarah glass and I'm 58 and today is June 20th 2015. I'm at the Chicago Cultural Center and I am with my grand my father and my daughter Jennifer glass.

01:05 Okay, so Papa could you tell us a bit about our family history? And when our relatives first came over to the United States in your family the document from my father's father who came at about the age of 20 in the year approximately 19 arriving at Ellis Island and quickly got a trampoline to Detroit because he had a cousin there. He slept in a stable for long enough to be able to afford a room. He left in Ukraine have his wife and two little daughters he had to

02:05 Save money to be able to earn passage for them and it's all within rather Revit time both of a year or so and the hill.

02:22 Went into his own business with hay and feed for horses. And that changed into a mill crowd will come back to that part of the story later on. My mother's side of the story is a mixture of fact and fantasy and I have sometimes felt it by ability to distinguish the two would fluctuate. Haha. She was this is possible to life when she was born in Brooklyn the antecedents of that story are a bit fuzzy parents came from Russia, and she said it was from Odessa, which is famous in the Jewish Community is home of gangsters and violinist that she was neither.

03:22 Her father was a house painter by their various X her perceptions of him be closer to those who is Michelangelo because he painted on a scaffold and lying on his back. He had that I was reminded today because of the beautiful Cultural Center from here.

03:48 His jobs included doing the tile of a well-known office building in Detroit for the Fisher Building. Where is quite a bit of Mosaic work? Actually he was mostly a house painter.

04:04 And she had a family of nine children and she was fond of telling the story that the her mother when asked who's your favorite would hold up the 10 fingers have her hands and say it which one would I do without?

04:29 Then we have other relatives on the light. And so when did they arrive in Detroit proximately father's father arrived in Detroit much sooner than my mother's family probably a 19-1 no later than that. And then she would have been more like a 1905.

05:00 And can you talk a bit about what you learn from them about?

05:09 Whether they wanted to or did not want to talk about what happened in Russia kind of.

05:17 I learned slowly and awkwardly that.

05:22 My father's father said goodbye to his family when he was about 20 years of age and never saw them again.

05:32 Thesaurus of separations and lost became an important theme in his life and I discovered indirectly. I'm I owned let's my father never asked his father about his family. And when I when the lights came on in my mind that I started to ask why didn't you ever ask and I got the indirect impression that he didn't want to cause his father pain.

06:03 And I find out later also and my practice at 2. I'd rather common story avoidance in denial.

06:12 So then your father's father was working as a Milkman in Detroit and the turn of the century and he brought his family over and then then what happened from there what happened in Detroit? My father was the first in his family to be born in Detroit and it was a 19-6 and then his sister 9 years later. She still living.

06:50 Designer jeans, I didn't know that.

06:57 So she is at 199.

07:05 All right. So when did your parents meet?

07:13 I believe that my father was just out of high school and my mother probably just about the same time. She was three years younger than hey, so I'm probably offer buy one day Matt.

07:36 And I and so they're both quite Young when they got married. They get married in in 1928 in Detroit that the Detroit and my mother always said that she was a cheap date because of the time they had Runners by the foot of the river and make a free pretzels and other Comfort foods and snacks and she said that the your father was so mad. He was so cheap that he would take me there and get me filled up with all that free stuff in the he would he would

08:21 And how far is that from remember last year? We went to the new park on the river is that close to is that at all closed? It was made because a lot of geographically and culturally in the front.

08:43 And so okay. So now we got until about 19 20 or so. And then and you were born in 1930 OK and see your parents actually were together for about 10 years before you're boring, right? They were I got off. Okay. So two years. Okay, and then they had you in 1930. Okay, and that and so what we're kind of your some of your earliest memory that I have is lying in a baby buggy and I think that is a like most of the memories are not event. It's so I come positive later fragments maybe photographs that I saw certainly.

09:43 8 month old baby is not going to organize a is that memory exist for me, but highly unreliable.

09:55 We can talk more about about that. And so then when was your brother born rg37 that will live in infamy I wasn't consulted.

10:17 And and what are some other early memories of growing up and some?

10:27 Such as Vacations or music from the time. Can you list some of your favorite musicians from that time? I was popular in the Ordnance contest for the music of that time. A lot of people treasure the music of their parents and the the dance Master that's time and the singers would make people roll their eyes now corny stuff. But a lot of it is stuck in those twins came back and long gone rebuild trips. We used to take the Florida and my father is that he and play the violin by ear and my mother suggested he get a bow in the

11:23 It didn't work, but he was able to carry a tune. My mother is.

11:31 Injustice 2 melody was famous in our family and I was no recognition whatsoever for the total value is in the that we would sing in the car and have a lot of fun and some of those were so sexy little sad dance pants to the thirties.

11:53 Babyface

11:55 And after you've gone you only hurt the one that you only hurt the one you love was written by a detroiter Seymour Simons and

12:10 Countless others Irving Berlin tune school or starting line with leads.

12:19 I'm getting more so I don't know why I care about music, but we'll have to try not to all cry good thing. You got more tissues.

12:32 I'm glad I'm not alone because some of the song still make me cry.

12:38 Okay. Now we got into about 1940 or so. And so what do you remember of the The War of the World War ii-era? Remember about it mostly with how little was said about if it's a family dinner table appalling horrible things were going out.

13:07 Going Up in Flames, but the that was the way our family dealt with

13:14 This kind of disaster and the other reasons. I became a psychoanalyst.

13:23 And so when did you first?

13:27 Realize you wanted to go into something in terms of psychoanalysis discovery of sound possible. That was 13 and I was a very good little boy very dutiful and obedient and it took many units of analysis to get that fixed. But at the time I was the

13:59 Family had a friendship with a very cultivated Englishmen. Who is he a Taylor of custom made suits my parents socialize with him and his name was at Samuel's he deplored my religious attitudes waste of a perfectly good my my mother pull their hair out of town and he took me seriously these matters and that's the gift that he gave me for. My birthday was the modern Library edition of the collected works of Sigmund Freud.

14:45 He wrote on the Five Paces at the height of the book. I hope you will always remember me as a person who introduced you to Freud Little Debbie now.

15:00 I looked at the table of contents and I was fascinated because the

15:07 One of the books was infantile sexuality and the idea of little babies doing sexual things was amazing to me and not representative what that book is about at all. So I dashed upstairs to read it for Italy and the was quickly disappointed in the solution that could understand bereaved but my father beat me to it and they asked if he could see the table of contents and I showed it to a man who came from his collection of paper clips put a paperclip around that particular book, which it was a great favor to make us at stimulate my interest enormously.

15:54 And the video

16:00 Link between that book and my interest in becoming an analyst is not linear and that's a simple how I think that the basic appeal for me later as I got into adolescence and we can't understand a bit about these matters was the

16:22 Authenticity of telling the truth

16:26 No matter what the price and I think that has been one of the lifelong reasons that this his appeals to me.

16:37 And so what is he mentioned a bit about being a very good boy. And so and at the time you were quite religious, right? You are going to going to synagogue and you were you were singing. I was a cancer in the same guy from the Torah at 8 Saturday. I did that also and that continued until I was 18.

17:12 And then you went to college and you started college at 18 or 17 and you started it Michigan and and can you describe a bit about the class that really changed your

17:35 Feelings about religion philosophy class and the professor acid bombshell question because somebody has said there's got to be a God because everything has to have a Creator and the professor said wasn't who created God and Wham

17:56 It occurred to me that the

17:59 It was a necessity to bridge a gap in logic between logical evidence and Faith understanding Faith meant the living things in spite of the evidence in science Penta living things because

18:22 And so how did that kind of change your your priorities in life in terms of previous to that you been attending synagogue very regularly. What were the first I should say. I would be very suspicious of the validity of anything. I'm about to say because give me explanations for you know, why one changes believes a Chansey unreliable. This is what we do is we make decisions and then we make up reasons for them at least in my experience with myself and patients. That's what we do.

19:01 Okay.

19:03 So

19:05 So then you went in so you studied for medical school, right and you and along the way then you also met our grandmother who?

19:17 We're going to be having issues remembering without getting very emotional. But but we should tell that story if you can tell it without. Well, I will I will I have to pay the way we met her date was bringing her home to do a dormitory kids. Who are they say they've been with her to kiss you goodnight and there she was and

19:59 I guess anybody listen to this for wonder why all the emotion and that is because he Lane.

20:10 She died today, very early age 59.

20:16 And the from breast cancer and them

20:22 I think that that the first time that I met her I feel pay you.

20:27 Something that hurts to describe and

20:32 I had to fix up her.

20:36 A possibility to to meet her and within a couple of days establish the fact that

20:47 I had a friend who would be willing to call her up and take her out because when I called her she didn't know I was

20:57 So I found out somebody who knew who she was. She knew who he was and so.

21:07 He called her and we went out on a double date and I have instructed him that his job would be to disappear and the rest as we say is history.

21:25 After that where you actually married

21:27 That would have been in the in the fall of I was in medical school at the time and

21:40 We are.

21:42 Began to date that fall.

21:47 And the following April her mother was diagnosed with an inoperable cancer. They over it.

21:54 So we have been paying for me to visit her in Chicago. I wish she had grown up and the

22:04 By coincidence. She became ill while we were waiting for that visit and the it was announced that the surgery was impossible to do. She was too far gone. So

22:19 That summer I arranged to call off my plans for the summer so that I could be with Mom and

22:32 We spent the summer here.

22:35 I was fair enough in the medical school that I could be her nurse.

22:39 And death

22:45 This is Sarah walking and I want to say it adds a special way or the fact that we can be here in Chicago. How far is how far away was that streak on Briar place? And it's less than a couple of miles from that apartment and we got to know each other pretty well.

23:16 And I had already falling in love with your grandmother. But the dentist summer I came to feel that for her mom. She was a wonderful person this wonderful. She was divorced and had been since Elaine was about 7 years old.

23:36 Her father had been an alcoholic and that was the reason for the divorce.

23:44 It's so when her mother passed away then pretty you got married very soon thereafter. And what year was that? I'm 5 1953.

24:06 Okay, we're even get a drink of water stories those stories of Chicago and your meeting and how you met on the steps and the train rides back and forth all of that. I'm so much a part of my early memories story. So we makes it a special way to remember not only remember everything. Did you get married?

24:37 We got married in Chicago at the Drake Hotel. I didn't I believe her her mother was dead at that time for a very short time. She died September. We were married in November on Thanksgiving weekend her father and his second wife picked the hotel.

25:14 So her father was also involved. How did you feel about that given the what you learned about the father that he was a very complicated man. I never really had any genuine respect for him and them here. He gradually deteriorated over the years is how call is God he was living with

25:43 Another woman because his marriage collapsed

25:47 Okay. So how long after that did you cook because you moved to San Francisco first and ever you ain't dropped out of school on her mother got ill and after we got married. She be enrolled Junior and then after some marriage time we decided to have a child and

26:22 We went in the Army in 59, I believe.

26:32 How it was wonderful how I was ordered ordered to go to San Francisco for two years and I accepted the orders and we had a marvelous marvelous time. And that was the stent during the Korean Korean War.

26:54 So was there ever any fear that you were going to have to actually go there was a terrible fear and everybody in the house and reports to San Antonio to learn how to lose and stuff like that and be head of each department gave an introductory lecture the day of the orientation class in the the the colonel who is in charge of Psychiatry said that he had found out that they were five of us who had partial training and he wanted to have

27:34 Those people who are partially trained come to his Hospital each of the major Army hospitals in the country. I had a teaching hospital and San Antonio was one of them.

27:49 This guy was so disorganized says he made you got into an argument with one of the members was heckling him in the audience and turn into a fist fight out in the alley. And listen. I hadn't I was bewildered that wasn't used to seeing that kind of behavior from a psychiatrist. The next thing I knew I was being interviewed in his home and he asked me to tell him about himself and he was not the interviewer that you are. All right, he proceeded to talk and talk and talk. So I just shut up and let him talk and he said you don't seem interested in what I have to say to you. I didn't know how I'm country.

28:39 You're very lucky because I'm going to have you stay here and run my insulin Come Aboard for schizophrenic and that I must have turned Three Shades of right after he even said you don't you show no one Tuesday asking for an opportunity of a lifetime going to train the dynasty of young psychiatrist who can follow my preceptor. So you're probably the only reason I was so polite and I'd only could I be executed in the Army if your wife is pregnant. She could not go with you.

29:22 So I sweet-talked and danced and I ended up getting orders to go to San Francisco. So when I arrived I thought I was so smart and practical and I asked the new chief officer there. He's laughing. He's crazy.

29:48 Evan it was heaven. We are every night that. Otherwise she could still navigate until she was about eight months pregnant and it was maybe a paradise. What were your some of your favorites?

30:09 Things to do there the North Beach San Francisco was just wonderful. It was your run the ascending to the beats.

30:32 And wasn't there an earthquake on that day. She was born in the fact of the night before she went into labor and she backed into the bumper of the car behind her and at that moment the plate glass window grocery store collapse and she has a sense of humor.

31:11 All right. Well we have about nine more minutes or so. So maybe Mom do you want to ask more questions about?

31:21 Oh, I was just had a memory. She also thought her birthday was the 4th of July and she's not that the fireworks for for her. That's right.

31:39 What more would you like to tell us in our last nine minutes or so about your life as a psychoanalyst and a father and a grandfather and

31:51 Sorry, I feel like I'm sorry honey. When you lose somebody if you done with your loser, so you never have to apologize for that. I've seen in my work. They terrible anguish them people have when they cannot be in touch with her feelings about loved ones. It's a very very common problem.

32:23 And the you have the game Juventus Isha, but the losses that they this

32:34 What other words of wisdom can you provide the Next Generation Well, I can tell you that the

32:41 Second wonderful piece of Fortune

32:44 Did I have that my parents were emotionally troubled people, but they love me.

32:52 And don't try to have a formula for happiness and success. He says if you want to be guaranteed happiness be the first born son of young Jewish mother.

33:08 Harrods my first pizza locked that's my mother's house really adored me.

33:16 Hagge's a person favorites of confidence, but it's crazy other problems if the Adoration is not rooted in reality.

33:25 It was a burden being a genius.

33:30 The second piece of art quotes

33:34 Meeting Elaine

33:38 And the

33:41 Is there a word?

33:43 Is it a heavy unusual contraction after her death of having another wonderful woman who is willing to love me? So

33:53 That was the greatest fortune in my life video.

34:00 Decision to be an analyst is a different order language with all together, but it saved me because I was in some serious emotional travel which would not really be evident here and worry spoke about so far. I think that most of the animals that I know if they're honest with themselves if they weren't they would not want to become analyst most analysts have personal emotional turn well and becoming an analyst is tomorrow's way to be paid make a living helping other people with very emotional problems, and then you can bootleg

34:46 Help for yourself. Well, at least you can try that fortune in Miami. This was wise enough not to let me get away with that and my good fortune. There is it he had the most wonderfully developed bullshit meter of anybody I've ever known in my life and he could deal with self-deception tactfully warmly, but firmly

35:11 I could never get away with I'm on my bullshyt.

35:16 And he made me know that he did that.

35:21 I had a feeling very much like love and respect.

35:27 Cuz if that isn't there between the animals in the patient patient is not going to get better and meiosis is changed enormously since I was a baby's one analysis and one way of doing it in for one kind of patient and the we are now vulcanized and speak to many theoretical fortunately.

35:57 Fish with or you have more words of wisdom to the Next Generation. I would say that I felt about religion. Myself and that is that there is an afterlife but for me, it is our children and our grandchildren and I think that's the only way I'm ever going to live on and anybody is at home and I say that with all respect for those who reverence and their religious feeling because I don't know enough to know the answer to these questions. I can only answer for myself and for me this

36:44 Having a family

36:46 Has a sustained me and gives great meaning to my life.

36:53 You just tell everyone do you want to go ahead and I was going to say yeah, we really I've heard it said that where the stories we tell and that we can be here at storycorps was just this vital job of collecting everybody's stories and and keeping them and sharing them in the stories. We tell ourselves in the stories will tell our children and grandchildren and how we remember things. It's it's just been an incredible experience and I'm very grateful. It's it's Jenny who arranged this for us and preparing for it and then having this experience together is just such a memorable gift and it would be nice just to just to summarize where everybody in the family in the immediate family is right now in their lives because if we listen to it if bad generations to come listen to this particular time J. I would say I can't resist myself.

37:54 Beautiful thing you did a wonderful gift. I had three daughters. Your mom is hero versus a 3 and your to answer each of had two children. Also, you have a sister facial was just graduated with a master's in landscape architecture Amy, who is your next game is sister has Sasha her oldest daughter who is graduated from Northwestern a couple years ago and is not working San Francisco for a Visa in the movie Her youngest daughter is now it Wash U St. Louis and will graduate a year from now your youngest and Julie and the her husband Jonathan her moving to New York and they have two children Maddie and

38:54 Have been is now living in Los Angeles and I had fun put up the ladder with the music industry and the sister Maddie is living and working in New York City.

39:08 Great. Okay, I think work. That's just about all the questions. So I just want to thank you again bappa for enough for doing this as soon as that such a rewarding experience for me. I know anti-social and rewarding and I learned a lot and to make your mom both of her baby and I can tell everybody how much we love you for our patriarch Father's Day tomorrow. Happy Father's Day everybody how much we love you?