Mary Ward and Grace Coudal

00:01 Okay, I'm Mary Lou Wade. I'm 80 years old. Today's date is March 4th 2070. Where in Chicago Illinois and my granddaughter Grace could all is going to interview me.

00:18 Hi, my name is Grace could all I'm 17 today's date. I'm 18 17. Today's date is March 4th 2017. Where in Chicago Illinois and I am interviewing my grandmother today?

00:34 Na na na na na my grandma. So the first question I had was just where did you go up when I get off in Chicago? I was born and raised in Chicago and Albany Park and I know this to the seven children which you know that, you know, most of my sisters and brothers who was it like growing up with seven children in the house? Well, then age span is remarkable because my youngest Sister Alan is 20 years younger than us.

01:08 So I was married when she was 6 months old. So I really didn't have much to do with raising her but it was It was friendly and chaotic at the same time. I always tell the story that I did babysitting and I couldn't wait to get into retail because I was tired of little kids. My sister Judy who is the next in line. She was really good at taking care of babies, but I never was so I wanted to get a job in a store.

01:44 And I might have told you the story Grace but

01:50 I was in high school and I had

01:55 Fake birth certificate saying I was 16 years old. I did tell you that and I tried to get a job and I finally succeeded at buttons and bows and the starting salary was $0.75 an hour and I was so delighted cuz I was getting $0.50 an hour babysitting and I was finally in retail and I stated buttons and bows for a long time part time. I worked after school and I worked in the Summers and I would go back for special occasions. So that was my first job and didn't they say that they would they would have hired you when you told that years later, you know been I was only fifteen and you didn't ask to see my birth certificate. I said, I was only 15 when I started. He said Mary Lou I would have hired.

02:55 If you were 12 know that was a flattering remark. So was it nice to have so many siblings in your house when you were even when you're older than yeah. Yeah, it was companionship and my parents got along very well and they were stricter with older kids, but they got to loosen up with their Authority was kids. Got younger.

03:24 And what are younger? So I mean like I had a curfew at your age and I think by the time my sister and brothers came along they had less of a curfew and my parents were more forgiving of them. That's like what's happening right now with my mom and my dad it seems like and where were your parents from again? Like it did they come from because I know this summer when we visited Denmark dad said that part of your family or best of ours family was from their father was from my dad would be my father's lynels kudal who was from Denmark and Jenny could always from Norway, but they met in the United States aim at in Chicago. My grandparents were both from Ireland on my mother's side and my father's side.

04:23 They were from Michigan. In fact, my father was born in Battle Creek, but my mother was born in Chicago and I met here in Chicago. Yeah, and they met at Edgewater laundry. My father was a route driver and my mother worked in the office.

04:46 And

04:48 Afterwards, my father was offered a job at Baxter Laboratories. He was a shipping for man, and he

04:57 Enjoyed his work there Baxter's was connected with a relative of ours and I remember when Daddy was offered the job. I was a little kid and I was under the piano and I was eavesdropping even then. I was nosy. I was laughing when I thought about that because

05:21 Harry Falk who is one of the heads of Baxter's for Daddy a job and we called my father and mother daddy and mommy, even when we were grown up. We really

05:36 Why I remember when my mother died she died at home and we said what would mommy want for the wake and funeral while we were still saying mommy and daddy, you know and and how did your father pass away? He had emphysema. He was a heavy smoker and hit his health was delicate toward the end and he was in intensive care and that the day he died. He died the year. Brandon was born 1966.

06:11 And I remember one day daddy was holding Brandon and he had such a Faraway look in his eyes, and I wondered at that time if he was going to pass.

06:22 And he passed the day after Thanksgiving in the hospital and I remember visiting that morning and he said Mary Lou I had a cigarette this morning. It was delusional because he was in intensive care with all the oxygen tank. Unfortunately. Allen was very young at that time your sister Helen.

06:54 So it was unfortunate. I mean it was unfortunate for all of us. But the fact that my mother died when Ellen was 15, so at that stage, you became an orphan so we're so how did the siblings put off when they passed you were out of the house. I assumed were you in your married by then. He was married to because I was expecting Jimmy one Judy and Tom got married.

07:25 Yeah, the older ones were out or at least in college.

07:30 Yeah, and you got and when did you get married? You said you got married young but yeah girl got married at twenty and Edgar was only Twenty-One. So when you look back we were children, I mean when I taught school at Columbia, I was looking at those 20 or oh my God, how did I ever get married at twenty? But that was the lifestyle kind of

08:07 What was it like growing up? Like at that time? We're kind of trying to discover yourself like as a 20 year old when you were when like in that time. Of the world.

08:19 Well ad was in the service he was drafted and we were married in February and I kept thinking I get frightened. By the way. That was the other thing that happened when you were 20 you hope to get pregnant right away raise a family. I don't know, you know when I use still think about that. It was kind of faulty thinking cuz I hadn't finished College. I only had two years. Why didn't I wait and finish, I remember that I was smart. I mean, I still am smiling.

08:56 What did you study in college back? Then? What were you studying business? I went to school with a lot of veterans that were coming back from Korea. Oh my God, that really dates me.

09:17 But anyhow the urgency to get married and the fact that I thought I'd get pregnant right away. And then if that it happened then Edgar would have been drafted, but I didn't get pregnant. So

09:33 He was drafted. What would that was a good experience? We were living in both Baltimore and San Francisco. So we were able to experience life on both coasts. And that's where I my dad was born in San Francisco Letterman Army hospital. Yeah. What was it like having your first child at that young or just having a problem with people that I was in the hospital with?

10:00 The women were like it happened to you today 18. So I was in my twenties 24 something they they thought I was really old and I got my

10:12 And we kept Army hospital and they conducted it like an army. He had to get up and make your beds in the morning and

10:25 I had thought that he would be able to pick out my bed cuz it was poorly made. I was like who wants to do this?

10:34 And then after dad was going to do move back to Chicago because I know you didn't stay there for that long after he was born and I guess we've thought of Chicago is home ed was an only child and of course a lot of things were happening in my family people graduating and getting engaged and you know, I got I think we just always had the feeling that

11:02 Chicago was home. We never thought of staying out in California. But when I recall going out to California, that was my first plane ride, and I know you kids have been on playing so many times that I was you know, 21 my first what role Donovan airplane.

11:24 Then what was it like having five children of your own after?

11:31 Well, it was busy and chaotic and did you want that many children? Yeah, I think I did and we always said we'd have more than the waves. But the five I had a tubal ligations which meant that I my tubes were tied. I couldn't have any more children and that was fine. I mean I had the two girls and three boys and they were in a 10-year span. So I felt that that even though that was against the Catholic Church, which we were still practicing Catholics. I didn't care. I was like, so what time it was against the Catholic Church to get your tubes tied control. Yeah, it seems similar to right now with our new president and then you guys all lived in for their whole childhood. He lived in Park Ridge right with

12:31 And my children with my yeah, pretty much we lived in Williamsburg Village in Skokie for a while. That was Skokie, but it was in Evanston mailing address and we outgrew that house because

12:48 Jimmy was born in an apartment.

12:53 On Wilson Avenue, Mary Beth was born in the apartment. Yeah, and then we moved out to skokie's and Williamsburg Village and that's where John was born and when Brandon was born, so we were getting very crowded. It was a cute little house with three bedrooms and they were small. So but the children grew handsomely and they went to St. Joan of Arc.

13:22 And made good friends, Jimmy and Mary Beth took piano lessons in the school district and they're still pretty good at that. I think his dad is I don't know about Mary. I wish you had continued I will remember in high school. I encouraged him to take piano. He took violin at that time. That's like keep up the piano. Oh, he didn't want to be in the recital when he was about 10 and Ed said you can put his fingers on the keys Marylou, but you can't make him play like a juul dimension playing in the recital but then I said he could give it up afterward, but I think it's the regrets and I love the fact that some of my grandchildren are in music. Why do you love that so much. I know it's such a big part of your life music. Yes.

14:22 Important part of life and the discipline of learning and being in a recital as being in a group Orchestra, or whatever our little little Joey he's taller than I am Joey is in a choral group. Yeah music was always important to me. I took piano lessons. I why wasn't very good at it, but I tried it out and then I decided I was better listener than former home. I think I I think all three of us spent like me Spencer in Isabel decided that too because we were all forced into a piano in your younger and then eventually none of us stuck with it, which is kind of sad, but we also like to listen more you were in sports. So yeah, that's true. Not anymore.

15:22 And do you think that the reason that you just love listening might be reason why you like teaching or why you did teach for so long? Well, my mother always thought that would be a good profession for me. Yeah and butter those days that was like getting married early. You had a choice of being a teacher or nurse and I had no interest in being a nurse and I can't stand being around sick people.

15:50 So at that time I didn't teach and did you ever did you have a job during their while you were raising your kids? I work part-time and I had sales experience, but I didn't really pursue a career teaching until I was in my fifties and that's when I started teaching in the GED program and I loved it.

16:25 And then I moved to Hawaii which is another big one story and then I was teaching there. So when I came back to the mainland I said, I'm going to keep up teaching you move to Hawaii to teach didn't you teach there as well?

16:45 Why don't you explain? Why did you move to Hawaii first? I just wanted to do something different and I've always been fascinated by Hawaii and I was recently divorced. So I wasn't Ed's ex-wife and I wasn't Jimmy and night and Mary Beth's and Mary Kate and John and Brandon's mother. I was my own person and nobody knew my history and I remember visiting Hawaii with my friends in that Steve and I was in and out of Hulu and Chinatown and a guy came toward me caring and live Pig on his shoulder or a dead pig but a big pig on her shoulders and I said Mary Lou, this is as far as you can go out of the country without

17:40 Being in another country, you know who like you would have the same currency in the same Postage and that was before internet and you know, you would still be in the United States, but it would be so different. So that was why I went

17:58 And I didn't know anybody. I would knew one of your mother's aunt's was connected with an artist and I stayed with her for a while. I said at the Y and then I got my own apartment.

18:14 So then I was teaching at the time too. And what were you what were you teaching in Hawaii Communications? So was kind of like the oral expression which I want up teaching at Columbia for almost 20 years. And do you think that Hawaii like made you like grounded you or made? You learn something new about yourself when you were there? Yeah. That's a good question. I think it was it was

18:45 Filling in the sense that I was caused, lol. It was causing me to be on my own and to be independent and not to have my sisters and brothers and my kids around and making friends on my own and exploring me islands. And yeah, it was great. When I look back I reflect back and going to the ocean. I always was a swimmer. So I was like the beach now is love the beach and I love pools and I like rivers and I like I mean, I just like to be in water so

19:23 Yeah, how are you was an interesting place at that time? It still has an interesting place cuz you've been there but it's definitely changed. I'm sure since when you went it was different. I'm sure it's different now than it was when you went above and then I was in the Honolulu to I was on the island when you want me Ben tomorrow and so now he is different is more touristy.

19:55 The main 90% of the people in Hawaii living in a while. So that was more and I made dear friends. I still keep in contact with some of the people and I went to I started going to the Episcopal Church there and when I came back to Chicago, I looked into Episcopal Church, too. So that was kind of an interesting. What was your choice into coming back home to Chicago?

20:23 Oh what disaster happened I had money invested in.

20:31 Suggestion of wood turned out to be a Ponzi scam. And so I realized I couldn't continue to live in Hawaii. Would you do you think you would have if you if I don't know because I didn't have grandchildren at the time and you you folks are very important to me. You twelve grandchildren. So I suspect I would have come back because it's not like people come don't come in to visit you is frequently you know it so you have to commit to a long vacation and it's expensive. So wide I doubt that I would have stayed much longer, but I was kind of forced to return home with that and where you at are you excited when you found out that you were having grandchildren because my friends, you know, I was older and my friends would say, what do we have grandchildren? How come you don't have any and my children were all

21:31 And I was like, I don't know and then all the sudden this huge birth boomba babies games. And yeah, you're all within the 10-year. Of each other so all twelve of you and it makes me happy to see you interact with one another to you know, and I'm grateful that my children and the people they married get along with my other children and the people they marry It's Great Lakes family reunions, very easy, whenever you text each other at least and that makes me think of skiing would such a

22:16 Like paradise to it all going in all living together.

22:22 Well, this is kind of off topic. But if you were to say someone was the most influential in your life the most influential person would could you think of someone or maybe a couple people? Yeah. Well there was a woman at Columbia who was older than me.

22:44 And she kind of inspired me cuz I thought you know starting out at 61 and I knew school was kind of

22:57 Unusual, I guess and she made me feel comfortable and made me realize that there was no age limit on teaching that I could continue to teach as long as I wanted. So I stayed there for 19 years until I Was 80 and so that would be one person and

23:22 Man, I have a very dear friends. I just told the story the other day about education as I said, I didn't finish. I only went to Community College.

23:34 Wright junior college and then one day I O I had a part-time job. No, it was a full-time job and my part-time responsibility was sorting out resumes and I would throw the non degreed in the wastebasket.

23:54 So a lightning bulb one off in front of me. I was like Mary Lou if you had sent a resume and it would be thrown away. You better get your college degree. So I walked over to National-Louis College and I signed up I like and then within a day or two and my friend said you didn't investigate other places and I said, no it was perfect. So then I went got my degree in teaching or in teaching or an English applied Behavioral Sciences was National-Louis.

24:35 So what was the giant umbrella you could really fit almost anything into that. It was a program specifically designed for adults with an out of school for a while. And then how are we doing with chime? And then I applied for a program had IIT and it was for under employed or unemployed women which is still the case now underemployed around employed underemployed.

25:11 And I sort of forgot I think it was in my local Park Ridge paper or something. Then it just sounded like an interesting program. It was government-sponsored.

25:26 And one day I got a call and it was a man with a heavy accent and he was telling me I was accepted in the program and I for some few seconds. I couldn't remember what program I had applied to. I was like what so I said I'd get back to him and I went into the Y where we had the fitness club and I said to one of my friends I was accepted in the program incidentally. This was when I was close to getting ready to get a divorce so that has an indication for some reason.

26:07 So I said to her I was accepted in this program at IIT, but I don't think I'll take advantage of it and she said why.

26:17 Why wouldn't you take advantage and I said well, it's IIT. It's on the south side and she said Mary Lou. What do you want them to do move the school that put me in my place. So anyhow, that was back in your question about influences influences. That was a really good influence in my life because the people were very interesting in that was so so successful didn't continue. I mean it was like one of those programs that had a quick life. So I was grateful. Yeah, and then I would love to going to classes and I love that atmosphere there and then I went on to Mundelein. I was the last graduating class of Mundelein in 1991, and they accepted for their master's program many of my classes at IIT. So it was good that I had that background so back to your car.

27:17 Turnagain influences IIT was an influence Columbia College was in influence.

27:28 And I think the experience of teaching certainly the experience of moving to Hawaii on my own.

27:35 That's so what kind of a person but it's the events of vents there. So then the officer question to that would be do you have any regrets that you wish you might have? We wish you might have done and you didn't and your little my man. I was 10 years old and I was going to the Chicago drama league and they had three categories.

28:00 Singing and dancing and drama and I love to the drama but I was awarded a scholarship for ballet and I was so excited but my mother wouldn't let me take it when I can see it was downtown. And again, you know, she had all these other kids and worry about and she just didn't think it would be a good idea. So I really regret that that wasn't your choice. I mean your mom chose for you. It sounds like I mean, I don't think it was I thought of myself.

28:39 That's your biggest regret is not going your belly dream. I work for Apple for a while and I regret not staying there, but they gave me I would have had a very wealthy woman and I was a part-time. I mean, I was temporary I guess it's a difference that you was I was hired through an agency and I didn't have the smarts to figure out how to get myself really hire. Do you know what was it love? Is it like working for Apple in like this? Which of the tech not like this start of the technology? It was fascinating. Yeah. I remember being impressed with the people who knew something and I I learned on word processing in

29:33 I was I was great and it wasn't even Steve Jobs. That was the other guy from Pepsi. I can't think of his name. Now. Was that head of it?

29:45 So they had offices close to where I was living in the apartment in the Pavilion and

29:53 Again, that was a great experience to

29:57 As if an interesting to see how like how it's progressed technology has progressed like now it is does that interest you at all or does it is it strange that you've seen it all kind of not seen it all but seen most of it and it was fascinating men.

30:21 And I mean the development of you know, we didn't have

30:27 Internet or any of that. I was just word processing primarily that we were using the computers for so but they was all starting up. Yeah. I think that it's funny because when I was younger and we used to come over to your house, you used to have all of those like sparkly notebooks. They weren't spot they were like,

30:52 You know what I'm talking about, they're like purple and green all those notebooks that we would always try to find an empty one to like drawing and they would be stilled like every single page would be written on you are a very Avid writer. That is General, right? Yes everyday or pretty much every day. I try to record it. I dream as if I if they're Vivid when I wake up, but have you had any bizarre dreams recently?

31:20 But it's curious that you would bring that up about the journal writing because I just read journals from 5 years ago. And that's when I bought my coffee pot which I still use and then I was living in in the South Loop and I was so content. I mean the journals reflex at that. I was so happy with teaching in my life and

31:51 My church and my yoga all that I was really happy with everything and I'm so positive person. I think you know, I think I'm still grateful for what I have.

32:07 Just recently moved to Aurora and how is it treating you and do you think it's like just give you more time to think about everything else you've done in your life Is It Anyways lettering and then I've had some health issues since I moved out there so that's caused me to slow down a little bit and reflect but it's working out very well living with the Sweeney family. They're very attentive and very warm and very I mean those kids are hungry and so and I have my own room and my own bath, so I started feel like I'm in a college situation. I make my own coffee Mary Kate said don't bring food up in your room. And are you still writing still doing headstands?

33:07 Why do you have to stop at home? Mary-Kate? Ask the doctor to tell me to stop in the doctor said with medications and the possibility falling it's not really a good idea to be standing on your head. But I'm still doing stretches and said yeah, I'm working out in and I'm looking forward to joining a yoga class again, his hand got back into swimming to so and I think it's probably nice to have that giant Pond right by you today with a beautiful. Yeah. I look out the window and I see nature and some water and trees and there is a squirrel nest right close to my window. I see the score on the geese very different from the loop to where you lived forever, but that was then and this is now and I just read an article the other day about

34:07 Seeing nature at 10 something to your psychic psyche so that you're more content and I believe that you are you still writing? Yeah, I'm still journaling but I haven't gotten everything together. And your sister is in charge of my journal books. Oh, you didn't know that. What do you mean all the journal books from the loop and then decide what to do with them throw them away or keep them.

34:48 But I think some of them are kind of personal but yeah, it's Dad's at that point. It won't matter, you know, you'll still have memories of how do you want to be remembered or how do you think you are already remembered like right now well

35:08 I loving person I think.

35:15 Okay.

35:19 And the curious person I guess I would say that about me cuz I read the newspaper and I do crossword puzzles and I keep up with the Jazz and yeah.

35:39 And what are your hopes for your grandkids?

35:42 I hope they have a good life. I'm a find somebody to love and have wonderful memories and families. And yeah, we're both getting emotional over here, but

36:00 That's why the kleenex is here.

36:04 But I'm very proud of my grandchildren. I think everybody's doing a really good job of living their teenage years and three people turn 20 this year. Isn't that right? Yeah Isabel. He waited Travis. Oh my God. I mean, I remember them as babies and held her in my arms and now they're all they're going to be the age that you were when you got married. Do you think I'm pretty sure any of them are actually Travis has been dating the same girl for a really long time. So maybe he and Sarah would consider but a couple of my sister is my sister. Terry is dated one guy in high school and then she never dated anybody else think Joe Marino and her children all dated and then

37:04 High school years and married those people so

37:09 Yeah, I did just seems like Hayden or is it we'll see how everyone kind of turn. Yeah, but all your grandkids are what you would like you hope they would aspire to or something or I mean and I don't want them to be caring people. I mean loving people and caring people. I don't really care of financial success sir. But if you know the idea that they have responsibilities to other people in the world, and you can't see

37:53 An individual and just worry about yourself, but that's so that would be my aim for them and get a good education and early has I mean that's why I think teaching has been important to me very rewarding. I look back at the 19 years of Columbia and think how many people I gave confidence to and influenced all those kids lives how you influenced all of your students lives. Yeah, because I gave them confidence to be able to speak up and speak out and sometimes they were very shy they said oh I can't speak in front of a group and then they do so and you still see some of them again and they always say

38:53 Oh, yes everyday, I remember. Yeah, I went down to visit and one of my friends is the library and in the. Of an hour. I met three former students. Oh my gosh, I couldn't believe it and they didn't know I was retired. So

39:10 One minute

39:11 Did you know that Grace has been adjusting we've talked about doing this for a long time. So I'm glad we have the opportunity to do it today. Maybe another grandkid will interview at you on a different topic one day cuz I know Isabel was like man. I always wanted to storycorps. Why did I get to go and I was like maybe nana will just get recorded 12 * tell different stories about you. Okay, great. Thank you. Thank you.