Thomas Martin and Anne Ford

00:06 Okay. Hi. My name is Tom Martin. I'm 74 years old today's date is September 21st. 1917. Let's make a 2017. I'm not sorry. It's sorry about that one. But anyway, it's theoretically the first day of fall, isn't it? I think anyway, so we're in Chicago, Illinois and I have here with me and for who I met in Vieques Puerto Rico and and told me about some experience she had with storycorps and we got to talking and I expressed an interest in doing a story Corps episode. So here we are. My name is an for it. I'm 43 years old. Today's date is September 21st 2017. I'm here in Chicago, Illinois with Tom and what time did it mention is that he taught for many years at the time Utah for many years at the college where I went as an undergrad all the we didn't cross paths then we didn't meet until

01:06 Many years later in Puerto Rico. So you mention I don't remember exactly how this came up in conversation. When we met that you happen to mention that you had quite the tale about getting out of arawn many years ago during very dangerous political situation. But what I would like to know first of all is how you came to be a neuron in the first place. And what were you doing at that point in your life or you already teaching nor sure at that point in time? I was with a associate professor at State University of New York at Brockport and I thought there in the biological sciences related to physical education and health and then 1976. I had always filed a Fulbright Grand possibilities, and I noticed that there was one coming up in 1977-78 and my specialty areas of exercise physiology and biomechanics and research design at the University of Tehran in Iran.

02:06 So I applied for that. I was the first one I ever saw for later than my area of expertise. I've always been a traveler. So therefore I was attracted to that and I was very fortunate in the end of the process is that people apply the applications go to a Fulbright board in country this happen to be Iran and they drew stop 3 Catalyst It's the final decision is made by the board of four and scholarships that's appointed by president of the u.s. So I was very fortunate to receive and in August of 1977 myself my wife Helen my to now eldest children say see who is 5 that time Peter for we're on the plane 20-hour flight as I remember it and to put her on and did you know very much about around before you went.

03:06 I would have to say that I knew a bit I had always I do have an interest in in history geography worldwide. And of course I did my my homework. So I write up on a situation. I was familiar with the monarchy the shop how he ascended to the throne problems that had existed previous in the country and the like they're I taught him in the College of Education and I taught those courses. I just mentioned by by students were themselves University teachers who averaged about 28 years of age and my first semester at 6, the second semester at 9. I was invited back for a second year, which is very unusual. I'll get to that and I had five I have the fall of 1978 and that was in the middle of the Revolution Electro. I'll get into her as great as we proceed. I had some some very interesting experiences.

04:06 In country and particularly at the University and seen first-hand what was happening at least in that country travel extensively as well. And even at the Afghanistan in the cross turkey and I'd lecturers. I was invited to a rounding run around was like during that time. Was it? Well, I'll just stop right there and ask you what what was it actually like was it westernized mean? We're all the wrong dude. The major city. I would have to say was westernized middle to upper-class. Where were very International in our approaches. The shower was attempting to modernize the country. Is he

04:56 Thought appropriate at the time and so into a ride to self through a pretty much what you're finding any large Metropolitan City. It may cost more but it was there somewhere if you know how to access it from you all day out in the country. It was backward was hurled. There were the Shepherds there were the underground irrigation system coming out of mountains with problems with sanitation. They're all the things you would find in a third world country oil area down. The Persian Gulf where we went there. I was going to have very little control over what was happening in terms of the environment. So the oil that was being extracted left behind some some distinctive landscape. So that's

05:48 Michelle so, it sounds like the political situation started to really heat up while you were there what was going on politically

05:59 Right, there was there was a lot of opposition that was developing toward the rule of the Shah and it was coming from a lot of different Origins. The major want to be in the religious community, but not only the religious community the what they called advisory the businessmen of Iran group. Okay. I'm many had opposition to the shop V the people who I had the opportunity to interact with

06:35 Within the government outside of the government related to the the embassy I have to go and do a little aside here and say my best source of information where my students and once I learned we learned to be

06:51 How shall I put it that we learned about each other? We became friends basically bottom line. And once we have that relationship, they were very open. I was very open and I really learn what was going on in the country of from various o stand points. So I met you in a religious. So I met you in the balls are really the growing middle class was very disappointed. They didn't feel that they were getting their share of the income the Royal Inn, that was coming in. So we had a lot of growing opposition to the rule as it existed. But again, I'd have to say that the religious was the main the man on and of course the the opposition way back home, Andy.

07:36 Imam how many who at that point in time was in Paris? He had been thrown out of the rock. He had asylum in Iraq after the show threw him out of the run and then he and Ali Saddam Hussein. So you've got to leave for you rock that he ended up in Paris and directed the revolution in Iran with there a point at which you started thinking. Oh my gosh, like we am I in my family might have to try to get out of here. Yes, but it wasn't until much later. So if I go even back to September 77 when I started teaching

08:17 I had my initial six students moving out about a month into the semester right before my class. I had all the windows in the classroom broken and this is October 77 a broken because my students were in class and there was a student strike going on. So my students were not students were not participate and furthermore. I was an American teaching at the University of his combination of those two things. So we after that we tended to meet or in back rooms not official classrooms or not to have our lessons. Yeah, when we when we talked the situation or the stabilized little bed and no demonstrations on that particular day, we might move into a classroom by as we did that.

09:17 October November I had another episode with the seats in the classroom were slashed before we came in. I believe it was November when I had there's a group of about 20 students that came into my classroom and they demanded that my students join the students driving and they were on your primary undergraduates and my students are graduate students. So the there was a little argument that took place and I only know a little bit of farseeing picked up along the way but yeah if it in

09:55 What basic what happened was my students explained what I was doing there in the country and I was attempting to help them and their responsibilities had their universities and the students pretty much accepted that and laughed at the time now, I know I was not scared. I was I was concerned. I was very observant up in the city Intercity here in Chicago and I feel pretty confident in myself and handle and maybe I'll say some difficult situations environments and also did not have a major factor in why are you telling your wife everything?

10:55 Each day, and that was that was on purpose. We wanted to experience the Persian culture as best we could so we lived in a Persian neighborhood. That was a lot of fun.

11:07 Okay, so you were telling me how things are sort of gradually building. So what was the next step in them around the Christmas holidays. I bought a used car we drove down to through your eyes and don't know if you froze Abad and Bush are in the Persian Gulf and back. So like touristy stuff fantastica mosques and the religious Center isn't having lunch in the desert and no man family on great experiences like that, but you would take up 40 minutes in early because they started by catching the chicken and traditionally cutting its throat in the juban and I were there all afternoon as they trust the chicken louder than the other Qashqai eat in a self Nomads would just settle a nice Christmas. So now it's

12:00 Early 1978 generally january-february new semester and I've got a couple more students my students who now from some then confided in me from the first group a couple of new smoothies. I told me one of the new students was the sidewalk was a government agent who was there to watch over me? Make sure I was no problems in a classroom. I thought that was rather interesting. So we've got that that going on we no longer met in classroom. Sorry, we were meeting in the back rooms and such around campus or sometimes with me. They come to our apartment small enough group to do that. So anyway, that's how I same point in time. I had some of the military before I put it the the arms manufacturers.

13:00 Okay, arms manufacturers military business. I was contacted by Boeing by Northrop by Bell Helicopter. And and it's me again either side, but but it's really interesting. He's talked about politics because the head of the Armed Forces General John bunny. I was appointed by the shop to head up the to be the Secretary General of sport organization of Iran. Also the Crown Prince Raisa 18 years of age. This was made his official responsibilities. He was in charge of the sport organization of your on very important that he be successful. So this scenario on something like this.

13:47 Would go to my wall just pick one of them we go to Boeing and would say, you know, we're building this new Air Base down in Isfahan and would like you to build on this Dad bid on this van back for the other part of this this air base and so they would dust discuss that for a while and kind of maybe toward the end of the conversation. He would say something like what you know, I've been appointed Secretary General of a sport organization of Iran and he was an expert equestrian had his own horses and Jumpers in but you know, I need a little help to get this going and do a good job at it. So, you know, if you could provide any type of input, I would appreciate that so of course those

14:35 Probability Bowen and Northrup went over the side of the world work and we get information. This would be helpful to the the general and maybe put us in to see what the general are in increased perhaps if we helped him so numerous of the person that even even more but in any case I learn a little bit about the military-industrial complex and those those people who I won't name were amazingly informed about they knew where the general was every minute of the day.

15:22 And they they had Direct contact continuously with the US Embassy and I'm not a novice in this regard may be naive even so I was on the man who put a very very interesting not totally on usual I think but just the operation which I was never involved with before I thought fascinating so that was going on there the early part of 1978 as well as matter fact, I became a consultant with Northrop aviation-related to building a program guide program a 454 Point program for the country. There was to be fine ass with oil oil money and I would have been if I if this had all worked out I've been in charge of the educational element for the coaches and physical Educators in the country. So anyway, we got that going on come spring break.

16:18 Just had you only talk about love of travel we decide where we're going to drive to and through Afghanistan. So we left them to her on and I know nothing about 20 20 day roughly trip and I are little-used pacon across the deserts in Iran and through Michaud. Holy city running into Afghanistan and her off and then Kandahar all these names that you heard of rain in the new to hear in Afghanistan up through the Hindu Kush mountains up to my city should Ethan just another aside time was that we were there of spring of 1978, March 21st, and that is the biggest holiday of the year in Afghanistan the spring

17:13 New Year play some new year for the first day of spring and mass fairs. If you will a animal contest to the death of camels, you know, they would bet on those dogs goats for God, where have you wrestling wrestling national sport and also Akash ghai which is a horse contest will used to be one Village against the other than a kilogram coat and a bloated and water and then the task is for one group of Horsemen to pick it up and drag it to the circle and the other Village or, now. It's actually more formalizing upset distances inside you and drop it in the other teams trying to do the same thing. That's all part of this this to

18:01 So, okay now I'm Duff spring of 1978 and demonstrations are starting to happen around the country and we're hearing about that through particularly BBC and I English newspaper English language newspapers come the summer we decided to drive to to Europe if you want the other way, so we drove through turkey and Greece and Rome Switzerland and you know, then that Yugoslavia Serbia and then back again and the Serbia and now and now we're getting all this is fall 1978. So we're coming back into the real serious, I think beginning of the revolution.

18:49 Don't know anybody really knows the full story. But down in the south of Iran. There is a movie going on in a theater and

18:58 The the government was in some way opposed to what was going on in the movie theater, and there was a fire and the doors were locked and

19:11 Doesn't serve I forget how many hundreds of individuals that were died in that and it was directly tied to quote the the Revolution and one that had gone us. We're a little concerned as well as we were coming back. There was major major episode that we were aware of as we drove back across turkey.

19:37 So now we get to September of 78 and I

19:45 Didn't start teaching in September because University was closed.

19:51 But there was a schedule and I had a gradual schedule. So I was starting to meet my students anyway, so we started some classes were able to have a couple of sessions at my apartment at the University and then November is a very important date for this conversation, November 4th 1978 because there was a major student demonstration on campus and that was the last day I taught and I was in a back room. I think with the seven or eight my students and I heard the gunfire.

20:33 And then saw the smoke and took off a different way home, right? So later later, I found that.

20:45 Depending on where you're getting your information. All right, according to the Iranian government demonstration the troops or open fire to brighten the students and students were dispersed student groups were saying that somewhere between 10 and 40 students were killed.

21:09 My students as I said, that was my best source of information. My students informed me that they they they were pretty confident that was for sound and smell that that were killed that afternoon. So that was last official day, but I taught November 4th. So you're saying what was going on in the country while continuing demonstrations all around the city and now you ask a question was I getting concerned especially with two young children your life. And if not now I was starting to get a little concerned about why was that the last day that you taught where the demonstrations just so big than that? You couldn't keep going that was part of it and also write my students were at risk for meeting with me. Okay, so we didn't see each other.

22:05 You know and we'll talk about the possible future if this the demonstrations would ultimately cease there is a new government. And by the way, there were a couple of new governments during this episode during this. Of late 1978 when I'm at lyrics transitions there.

22:26 So

22:28 Yeah, so but that's what that was going on. So what?

22:33 Now we have November 4th, and I'm continuing and now they're starting to be martial law.

22:39 So now I'm going to Lights Went Out 9, maybe maybe came back on at 5 in the morning, maybe 9 there was troops in the streets patrolling.

22:51 And like so that that was going on my wife by the way is teaching at an international school. So she was continue to teach their though. There are many days at that school was closed. So now we're into November Thanksgiving and we're feeling the situation out with ammar martial law sometimes now the water would be turned off so you won't have any water. So we when we first moved to her on we got to the apartment or Persian neighborhood traditional roses really cool that we had to vacate that one for us my second year and I think I'm now for my second Academic Year 1978-79 so

23:39 Got another accommodation which was a little more modern and they they actually had a bathtub. So they're only reason I mention that it's cuz I would fill the bathtub with water. So we had water should we need any Asian population around the city with would move up on two roofs the beginning of Martial martial law, you know nine nine at night the curfew and we're start their chance the religious chance there is no God, but God and Allah Akbar, you know, there's no God, but God and Mohammed is his Apostle and ran and on wait. So where were they doing it before the martial law was and Post Road.

24:39 When I when I say the roofs, I'm done speaking of the whole city map just about so even on our own roof the apartment complex that we lived in people were upping our roof. The way of people continuing to demonstrate isolated them from that as much as we could. Do. You know what you got them to sleep before most of this started and they were young and get them up and I'll keep them away from it for a while. So it's I wasn't was a real problem before for the children, but we were concerned of court. So we got that going on also doing this. Now November. I slid under the door all foreigners leave or basically going to be killed.

25:32 Okay, this is like some kind of official notice or was the suit on somebody's so I did have written in Farsi and scribbled English say same thing at least least two phone calls leave or you will not be at leave now, or you will not be able to leave. All right, so it sort of being concerned and family and Welfare and very beginning of December.

26:08 78

26:10 The embassy was evacuating non-essential Personnel American so

26:23 So I said to my wife while y'all were going to take advantage of that and even though we're not officially, you know, I am staff were employees of the US government to get over on the grant theoretically not related, but it's through the state department and I do not know until we're going to take advantage to leave leave and we always been together and we have been apart and we're going to keep it on For Better or Worse. We're going to be together under any circumstances. I was looking for either stain doing what I was doing the likelihood of continuing. That was very small or getting a change of assignment.

27:10 Alright, so I had already started the process of petitioning the Fulbright or organization if you will for a change of assignment and that price is very slow and going through the whole brain American society were Fulbright office was Integra on and getting Communications back and forth which was weird sample at that time and or nor nor clear North secure and examples of that, too.

27:38 But yeah, so, okay, here we are and

27:44 We got these things going on and now the family can't participate evacuation and it's to take place as I remember I think was December 2nd, and that was they felt that was good day to do this because in two days was going to be Usher and Ashura is the commemoration of the death of Imam Hussain and this is the biggest tragedy in the Shiite religion in Iraq. The army of the caliphate killed Hussein and his family who according to the Shiites or their rightful heirs to Islam. Okay, and that's the beginning of the that real conflict between Shia and Sunni. But anyway this day is the commemoration of his assassination.

28:40 And some things were going to be hot very hot and always work hard and previously the shop I had forbid demonstrations were individuals would physically hurt themselves away from Salt Lake to take like a button and I'll just ride with some Bob barb wire on and strike themselves and I'd be bleeding. Is there going to be chanting and thousands and today's so long story short. I got wife children to the Embassy into Vans high security in the morning middle of the night off to the airport to be evacuated.

29:27 So they got out and then my family crash twice back to the States from New Jersey. She wants to eat with my my my mother and father-in-law in in New Jersey. So now I am basically kind of negotiating with the state department about a change of assignment and I'm still curious about why you wanted to stay. I mean we just was the lawyer of the adventure or

30:01 I know, you know, I know not just that though. I very much like that aspect that I felt responsible. I thought responsible and I felt I was

30:13 Being a positive factor in terms of the education of my students that you might say primarily academically, but I think also socially where I was able to discuss with them might my interpretations of the way as an American Beauty, Ron, for example, a little kid do the current unrest in the LA calenda like and we had these type of political discussions. So I felt some responsibility to that but it be on that if I left Iran, I would no longer have salary. So there are some very practical economic aspects to this. My jobs is a substitute Professor back in New York by your house was rented. I have no place left to go to

31:01 So anyway alternate assignment offer three different possibilities. When was Izmir University and turkey which is interesting away. I think within the last year to been closed by order on okay by her toe on another one was Universal Los Lagos Nigeria got a rough place as well. And if there was University vascular in Finland, and I already knew the chair of the Department of biology a physical activity there international conferences. So there was a no-brainer and then I was like, yes, I like to take the position in Finland, but then we had further negotiation because the package they offered me wasn't equal to the package back in Iran and I felt that they should at least make it equal to that that bad we work that out.

31:57 So now we've got it worked out now. I know I'm going to Iran now. We're in January 1979 and I'm looking to sell the few possessions we have and the car the car. I think the Jews cars and do it ended up selling the car take on to it was but I think the brother-in-law of a fellow who lived in our part in the Persian who lived at our apartment complex. He was the chief of police of Tarrant. He bought the car. That was a big one now. I could seriously consider getting out of the country, but there were no commercial flights. So and you were trying to get the fenland at this point, Oregon about specifically I'm trying to get to the University of you asked you I was just going to Central Lakes District.

32:46 So

32:47 Do the only way for me to do that at that point of time middle of January. All right, if 79 was to go down to the airport and try to hook a r i hitch a ride on a military transport out of the country and some had just empty seats and some did not but but you could as an American go down there and ask to be on if they had an empty C50 fly them. So that was kind of what I was working toward doing so I could settle all of our business and now I buy might say that on the day of Ashura actual day of asteroids want to go back with a little bit. I have one of my students take me down to the demonstration through through Tucker on Usher about 2 million people and I went down with my cap and my scars absolutely no problem whatsoever peaceful 2 million, you know.

33:47 Demonstration they had their own emergency set up today. They marched through the city down to the tryout Monument by been anywhere. So now anyway now work wise one of my students is to drive me to the airport. So now I'm going to the airport and in two days is going to be probably mispronouncing this are buying which is the 40th Day after the martyrdom of Imam Hussain. It was a sure so the airports can be closed totally and there is talk that hommini may be flying in from Paris and that would be the end of the Revolution. So I very much wanted to exit Iran at that time. So I go down I'm dropped off at the the gate and I have to terminal by the military complex I go through some very tight security. I got a big backpack into suitcases and I go in and the Quonset hut and I have to sign papers to show my passport. I will pay back the US government for the flight.

34:47 Foreflight Apple administrative fee for no problem. I'm happy to do that at this time. And the talk was that this was the last day to the airport. We can be open for a minimum three days the Revolutionary guards now control the airport. So they were supposed to be as I recall it three flights coming in and going out military transport the first coming from Frankfurt I think was ending in Cairo. All right, and I'm sitting in Quonset. I can hear the radio. I'm there right there in the radios on the other side of the counter so I can hear what's happening with these flags. Sorry the first flight they won't they won't give it approval to come to Iran said never took off as I remember it never took off from Frankfurt. So now we have a second flight and I believe it was originating I could have just said he's wrong. It's actually believe is originated in a room and that was due to

35:41 Comes to run end up in Athens didn't matter to me either. I get out of the country. I can find a place to Fenway now Crossing turkey.

35:55 It's approaching Iranian airspace.

35:58 They will not allow it to enter Ryan airspace and ask to turn around and return.

36:06 Charger off. There's one slight left and did I think also originated in Frankfort and was due to end up in Madrid. I remember to Madrid for sure because I wanted to go to mister mister best for us to me. So here's the radio crackling and the plane is over turkey and they allow it to enter around airspace.

36:34 And it's approaching men provide airport and terrific and it's circling the airport at airport.

36:43 They won't let it land.

36:46 It has to go back.

36:49 So, what did you think when that happened? Did you think that's it? I'm screwed. I'm screwed but depressed bit upset but confident I get in the end work it out somehow, you know, I already knew that in my own mind that plans if I couldn't get out somehow this way, I affect a a land exit, you know, and remember I think it was for the wings of Eagles or something with Ross Perot Finance The Escape of some of his employees or me run the better motor.

37:33 Parade if you really went through Iran and turkey and things like two suitcases in backpack, so I'm exiting the hot

37:49 Yeah, I don't think it was still no Americans in the city. It's just I got to figure out how to get to him Americans were married to Ronnie and orator vice vice first. And so anyway, I'm thinking of thinking and I'm looking down the tarmac in here with people getting on an airplane and a jet.

38:11 Wow, I put down my stuff I run over there and people going up the stairs onto the airplane and a fellow is dead. They he's a bottom of stair Casey's to go to clipboard. Names and I asked him to choose. Excuse me, you know what's going on? We're evacuating Finnish Embassy DC Titans playing at is Israel. She said yes or 3/6. Can I get on this plane? And he says so well, so it's what you said we have clearance to leave and where we're at. We're leaving here in 5 minutes. So you can be a gun is playing at 5. I will take you so you have enough saw me run so fast to go get my backpack at my two suitcases and run to the staircase to get on this plane. I'm sweating dripping, you know French and I start to walk up the stairs in the airplane and I look over at the the front of the airplane and you know, Nate plaintiff names A lot of them city of Hughson, CA.

39:11 The name of this plan is the city of you vascular.

39:17 Exactly where I am going and Central Finland.

39:23 Dr. Is it a two-in-one through my mind from The Twilight Zone do do do do do do do do we refuel in Baghdad Baghdad? But when we left first left to run an air space those fins went crazy and started drinking and we refueled and Baghdad by the time we got to Helsinki many of them had to be healthy and had no idea what I said at the time what I was doing so I got off got my things and I went to the end is going to splurge. I went to the InterContinental Hotel got settled there no snow and I went from the frying pan into the freezer. So to speak and I from you run into Finland and call Helen.

40:19 Went that nice on a female tell me more about that phone call. What did you say? What did she say to remember? You don't have pretty straightforward stuff said hey Helen never guess where I'm at, and I'm already on the way. She says, yes, so I've got this assignment will be here in Helsinki. However long we need to be laughed get some warm clothes and get the kids their coats and such and then have to train up to your oscula. And she said I will be there as soon as I can and within two days she flew in the house with the kids. Was she emotional at all to hear from you. I think so.

41:15 That's my story. Are you can call it fate Destiny divine intervention?

41:23 But but I just was incredible experiences then no one has in his life. And so what do you think it was do you think what do you think of it is luck or do you think of it as God or combination in the scheme of things of the universe this was going to happen cuz I was worried it was going to happen. I do. Yeah, I think there was some predestination here is a lucky man. I do I do throughout my entire life with my wife. Yes.

42:08 How much time do we have left?

42:10 9 - 2

42:14 All right. Well, I've been looking forward to this. I have been really excited about hearing the story from you. So thank you so much for telling me. Thank you very much for getting me here because I want to come without you. I'm deleting you. And so there you go Destiny beating you in Vieques. Yeah, that's true.

42:36 Alright, well, thank you. Thank you.