Julé Jackson and Ben Jackson

00:02 My name is Julie Michelle Jackson and I am currently 31 and a half.

00:09 Today is March 8th 2018. And where in Chicago, Illinois at the cultural center.

00:15 And I am the wife of the person that I'm interviewing.

00:23 Hi, there has been Jackson. I'm 31 as well. Today's date is also March 8th 2018. We are alive in the windy Cindy City of Chicago, Illinois, and I am the husband to my wife the interviewer Julie Jackson. My name is Ben Jackson.

00:43 We are.

00:50 Do we just go? Okay, so I'd love to talk about our engagement story and I was thinking because the meaning of it goes back as far as our first trip to the Brooklyn Promenade that is starting there might be interesting. What do you remember about that first day at the Brooklyn Promenade?

01:19 Well, I remember we had.

01:22 Started our day by making the pilgrimage cross the bridge from the island of Manhattan into Brooklyn. I remember reading little Marquis and little plaques along the way learning about the history of the bridge and then going across now into the place of Brooklyn see we

01:51 Hopped into like a art gallery. I think that had a bunch of.

01:57 Remind me they had like they were a recipe cards that were all scratched out. That was interesting though. There was like some food place like it's the best burger in Brooklyn, but they were closed for that Brooklyn. Oh, yeah, that's what it was. We yes and it was a like the homes of famous authors such as Truman Capote and a touring some of the Brownstone.

02:38 Community of Brooklyn and

02:43 Yeah, I think that eventually lettuce to sitting down at

02:48 What are the various benches along the Brooklyn Heights Promenade? Yes, and you can see a lot quite the view Take It All In

03:03 Are you are sitting down?

03:07 And he was about midday.

03:13 Cool outside. It was a Brisk, but we sat down cozy on the bench and looking at pasta.

03:20 The Reverend seen the island of Manhattan and

03:24 And then I think

03:28 I don't know our conversation was open to that point but essentially you leaned over and you said I think I would like you to be the first person to kiss me because I've been to that point you had not kissed anybody before and so that was

03:42 A big line. That was a big

03:47 Moment that I knew my heart wasn't ready to do that. I know that we

04:00 I just knew in that moment that although.

04:07 I could have course entered into that stuff. I know that the emotionally and spiritually we were in that place that I could do that without having regret to say no that wasn't it and knowing how when we initially met and how I knew about you and your choice to reserve all physicality.

04:31 For either your husband therefore. I don't know what why you lie for your husband.

04:39 And knowing that I had not.

04:42 Preserve that from my life knowing that it was just that that's separation that clarification. I don't know where that

04:55 Just that choice that you had made.

04:59 Really put my heart on guard to move forward advancing that it was as though.

05:05 You know God put the brakes on me to say well well well.

05:12 Stop for you yet. It's not meant for you yet. I will show you what it's time you need.

05:22 You need to enter into heartfelt conversation. You need to come forward to be honest be vulnerable with each other first and only through being.

05:33 Known in your Brokenness known in your vulnerability and known in your yearning for cleaning yourself up and

05:43 Wanting what? I have designed to be good. Should you then enter into this physicality of your relationship? So

05:53 I'm trying to think I guess we had an ad had we had those things we had the big talk at that point right on January one 2014 team is it was when you're on the Today Show. Okay, so we hadn't we hadn't had a big conversation yet even more so then even more so that I feel like wow, no we can't even

06:18 We can't even enter into this part of our relationship just because

06:23 Things haven't been shared and out of fairness and fairness to you to say.

06:31 She doesn't know me. She doesn't know of that this in the things I've done behind closed doors the places I've gone and the things that I've seen in touch than the seat because that hasn't been known as an light hasn't shown into that room that we just can't go anywhere. Yeah, was that hard to say? No to me. It wasn't it wasn't hard. It wasn't I mean it was it was?

07:07 I knew that the answer should be know what was hard wasn't saying know. What was hard was.

07:14 Was seen the disappointment that blossomed afterwards having that rejection sink in for you and knowing why why can't we explore this part of our relationship? I've waited patiently we've been

07:33 We've we've been pursuing each other and what seemed to be a good way and we've been patient hasn't been rushed to this. We've given that years in our relationship. Why can't it happen now? So my only my only

07:55 Heel pain in Trina that was knowing how much pain and Rejection it would bring you to say. Hey, I never kissed anybody want to put myself out there. Would you like to kiss me to be without would you like to be the first person I guess and for me to say no. Yeah, that's that's heartbreaking to say no we can't do that yet. So yes out of protection for you knowing that we hadn't been fully honest.

08:24 That I hadn't been fully honest and been forthcoming with all of the past that needed to be shared. It would be a cheap imitation of the joy, that would be experienced. Later.

08:42 So yeah, I remember going back to the apartment and you were very you are we are very upset that you were up you cried and it was a very tender moment. And and also I'm laying the back in the Inn on Wayne in my in my mind in the background going well.

09:05 Because you haven't chosen to.

09:09 Be completely honest and to be vulnerable you're causing someone else pain in the process. So did you make the good choice to not kiss? Yes. That was the right choice to make I know in my heart. It was the right choice, but that comes with a price to come to the price. It's it's it's just the repercussions of it. I never back at the apartment. You told me your explanation though and it

09:45 I didn't I wasn't I wasn't sad about that. We didn't kiss in that moment. I think it was my idealism that made that moment the moment did have our first kiss because we were in New York where in Brooklyn there's the city so so romantic and me thinking that that would be the best but I remember after hearing your reasoning for it. It was such a protective thoughtful and selfish motive for not giving me that very romantic moment that I'm a wreck gave my heart piece about it and just further solidified you as a good man in my mind. So I definitely didn't push you away and it didn't stifle my up that my affections.

10:30 For you, I think it made them deeper cuz I can tell that you really thought about our relationship and you gave a lot of thought to how you interacted with me.

10:43 So I knew that you it says if not kissing me didn't tell me you didn't care. It showed me that you didn't care because you weren't in it for the surface-level pleasures of relationships on that route before I just buy.

11:05 Getting gratification in the moment seizing the opportunity just for the physicality of a relationship. And so knowing that our relationship the slow cooker Crock-Pot approach of friendship and growing in depth and knowing that hey we've invested so much into this already and knowing that my heart was saying that yeah you you don't do this with July just me not going to go in this area yet because you

11:40 You love this person and you know that that this is going to go somewhere.

11:48 But you keep that special especially when that trip was in 2013. Do you remember if it started it if it planted a seed 4000 let's get engage there. Remember when you had that idea of taking me back to that spot to propose.

12:14 Well, I know it was in the only place in consideration at 2 ideas number one was to propose to you.

12:24 Back in Bryan College Station

12:27 Outside of that girlfriend's house of yours where I picked you up to be my date for Mark Burgess as wedding, and I don't remember.

12:42 Who was that girl's name Virginia's house when we were there for March wedding and you are my date and I remember picking you up and going to downtown Bryan and having dinner meeting some of my friends for the first time. I think like Nathan was there and Patrick was there a may I have? No, I don't think Sterling was there. I don't think Sterling was there because I know maybe he was probably makes sense. I guess Bistro in a marker clothes are closed.

13:14 But anyway

13:16 And the next day was the wedding and we went to the bar across the street Murphy's Law and when we cross the street we held hands for the first time and it was me you my mom and dad sharing a beer at the bar and just getting to know each other and talking and having a good conversation. And then I think it may have been that night at night where I had head on back because I had to perform at the Museum of Natural Science the next day. I want to say doing the magic exhibit and

13:52 And then we're dropping you off getting back in my car and driving back down Highway 6 headed to Houston and thinking to myself.

14:03 I don't know if I hit the night should end here I feel as though I need to tell her that I want to pursue relationship. It's not just going to be a friendship but it would be something more express some type of intentionality and some of her calling pulling into the HP parking lot on Sterling and say I think I need to say something here and he encouraged me to go back and say okay man. Say what you got to say, so

14:33 Turn back around got in the car and called you and you came outside wearing your yellow hoodie and yellow sweater exercises or something ridiculous. I got a little kiss on the cheek in there and snuggling in there and I just told you that I want to

15:23 Have some type of DTR I want you to know that I want to date you and I want to be your buddy who kisses you on the cheek. Sometimes our little declaration to say look. I know that you have your life going on right now and in Dallas and Arlington, and I'm living in Houston, and but I want to be

15:46 I guess your friend and he said more than my friend said you wanted to date me and be my cheerleader. Thank you. So so so those grounds if you will to make that Declaration of what's Blitz date certainly came up as the potential grounds to say. Hey now I want to do more than just date. I want to be your husband until your dad. So there's that there's that

16:19 Sacredness to that area and then I thought

16:26 I think it had to do with.

16:29 When I was getting the Ring made by

16:36 Gosh what to say yo, yes chuck. Chuck Condor v c jewelry jewelry in College Station as recommended by I never mind and Sterling Morris and

16:55 That whole debacle The getting the ring. That's right designing a ring finding the right diamond for you, which I found to be an asscher cut diamond member going into

17:10 Robbins Brothers Jewelry store in Houston and talking with a jeweler. Just getting education about abusive cut Clarity color and something else. I don't know what it was kind of a talk in the sky and of course trying to close the deal on me and tried like a make a decision today and by this time in today and let me know anyway, but I think I had gone to Chuck's website first seen the different cuts of diamonds. I really like the asscher cut diamond and then a jewelry store Robbins Brothers asking to see if asscher cut diamond and saying the guy saying to me, you know, we got this whole Vault of diamonds in the back and of the 500 600 cuts of diamonds loose on that we have we have for that are cut in the

18:10 After style, which was pretty cool. And so then he brought one out showed it to me and I was still right there on the spot that that's what I wanted because the cut of the diamond isn't the most glamorous doesn't have the most facets so doesn't reflect the most I have the most pop but it has a

18:35 Glass hallway view that still has that's very tasteful and and it's vs. Its a simple ring, but the symbolism behind it was that our marriage would be a clear Foundation that no stone be left unturned and that vulnerability and honesty would be Paramount and because you can look through asscher cut diamond and see right to the bottom. That was the goal in the heartbeat the motivation to have a symbolic stone for your ring. And and then I found a band design. I thought that was faithful in Timeless and very simple rose gold to boot kind of design this design the ring 7 to check he had a maid boom them are going I had an opportunity to go.

19:35 Open see the ring.

19:38 Because yeah, I was doing was going to do a magic show for the United Methodist Church in the woodlands and that have gotten rescheduled cuz they had booked me a different day and that allowed me to go up and secret to go up to College Station while you thought I was working at the church on a Tuesday and then that day would also be back working at campioni. But but because of the confusion schedule like was able to go up there and see the ring once it was done and I remember I remember looking at it. So I was very impressive and number check said yeah buddy size 8, right and I said, what's that and I said

20:28 No, it's not that I don't think so and quickly discovering that he had made it in a size too big even though I had at least stated, of course the correct size for you, which I think was I don't even know my ring size. Well, it was too big. I know that whatever it was it was too big may be off by half size or or full-size so and knowing that I was going to leave to go to New York very very soon and I was going with you. Yes, it was the main reason why we're going you were going to go work at chipriani Zoar cipriani's it was Buddy's birthday party chipriani is on Wall Street in that was the wrong place. I have had I had that booking.

21:24 The work Brad write-offs buddy is James. He is the bartender who works behind the bar at Blue Oyster the owner Blue Ribbon oyster bartender owner. I don't know and you said have to come up with me and spend a week. We had enjoyed always enjoy going to New York. And so we had made a big trip out of it. And so I was very concerned that hey.

21:58 If we're going to go to New York, I think that would be the perfect location to propose at the same spot in the Brooklyn Heights Promenade. Bring it back. Oracle a book and that journey of rejection to Redemption and

22:19 But I'm scrambling with Chuck frustrated man. Are you leaving like we were leaving in five days. So he was able to get the ring resized shipped to my parents house because the time you were staying at the Cooper's house and dog sitting rest in peace Cowboy Cooper I travel with an engagement ring. What you decide to do I decided to not put it in a checked bag. That was that was the consensus. You don't do any check back in a carry-on and I put it in a

23:13 Thought I put in a pair of socks and travels with it in my backpack. And I think someone had mentioned that you would leave act like a sticky note on the ring box to say in case TSA had a search through your bag that it would be a note that would say engagement ring inside. Please be discreet like that. Don't blow this for me bro that accept but I definitely put it in socks and I put it in one of the side pouches of my backpack and we got through security and all was fine. No problems.

23:51 And then we got to New York and then I ain't never lied ever left it in the room. We were staying in the Lower East Side Airbnb that we found and whose bed and air quotes was not a bed. The second Dead II is real bad and the second bed was futon with a crazy meme bar underneath F4i to provide a no support only painfully provide a pain and knowing that that would not work out. So we got back then immediately so that we need the actual bed. So we got us an air mattress and that was fine cuz we know we're not sleep in the same bed.

24:40 Who's crazy hot in July our first day in New York when we got there. I think it was Monday. No Monday, July 25th is the day we proposed but I proposed but if you want the clocks back, I guess it was Wednesday. Maybe when we saw Billy Joel in concert at Madison Square Garden, and that was really fun. So I'm trying for some of the highlights that we

25:19 That we had before leading up to the engagement now the proposal night and we went and we walked on the heights near the Highline that day. I was thinking Edgmont day before that. We went to we took the

25:50 Sailboat Cruise Central Park, all that was that was just last year. Nevermind. Yeah 2 years ago.

26:09 I know I did a lot of that.

26:14 So does the day of the day of the engagement? Will you you wrote me a letter?

26:23 Oh, yeah. Yeah, I wrote you a letter. Did you know that you would propose me a letter or is that spontaneous?

26:38 I knew that it would help me.

26:43 Cuz you only got one shot of that you only get one shot at asking someone to spend the rest of your life with you you do that once.

26:54 So knowing

26:56 The weight of that asked or proposal what a bears what it means.

27:03 Yeah, I thought the only thing I could do is write it down because she only say that once and I remember that day it was it was storming outside and add some light showers and as we're walking around the Highline. I was a little concerned as we saw a dark looming clouds everywhere and showers mean we were actually if we were caught in the rain and spots along the Highline tour that you know, cuz I'm going to propose outside. It's raining outside man. It would really stink if that's how we ended our trip knowing that we had gotten to this moment watch. I had planned my mind and it won't stop raining. I thought maybe we could do it the next day on Tuesday before we caught our flight, but I wasn't I wasn't sure.

28:03 Or so nonetheless throughout the day. I would find little pockets of time. I think it was probably before you woke up. I would get old pen and paper and start writing.

28:18 This proclamation of my love for you and knowing that even up in that point. I had not said the words that I love you. That was also kept special. You know, that word love.

28:35 As yeah, I think in a lot of ways become cheapened and that I love you and I also love ketchup like tacos the same label. I love something and so I knew that that was also that was going to be the ending of my

28:58 Proposal must have drop the l-bomb and Then followed up with the smooch. Whoa, and then the bombs is the tree of the trifecta. You can't get bigger than that the love bomb the smooch bomb the marry me Mom will never separate until we're both dead bomb which of those are big but we're blasting away. So

29:25 Tell with my little pockets of time to two sections for my

29:33 Future wife is annoying how thankful. I am that God brought us to dep's and depths of sorrow and and hurt and seat and you know, just the wickedness of sand and how broken we are as human beings and knowing that the only thing that we have any hope in is the Cross of Christ who came all two-barrel to die for all to put on human flesh. You informed become a man to be meek to be lowly and say I came for you and I will die for you so that you may be brought back and be justified in God's presence and so

30:19 Without triumphant decree

30:24 And knowing that God guided us through this painful steps of vulnerability only for our good and for our betterment and two.

30:37 Bolster us in our confidence of becoming man and wife.

30:42 It was such a sweet.

30:44 And thankful Journey that we went on about going to Mount Doom and back, you know on that that we would have a story to tell about.

30:56 Yeah, just of Joy what would joy would would feel like a being fully known fully discovered and passionately pursuing God first and that our marriage and hoping our relationships last marriage would then be glorifying to him and to our family and and would mean something mean something so and then at same time as I'm writing all these heartfelt things I'm probably wipe away tears as I'm you know, if I'm doing this and I'm hearing you wake up, you know how to cover up my tracks by writing that I like magic box. So I like I drew a picture of a Rubik's Cube.

31:56 You know don't look at me crying.

32:02 Any of you but and then we did after I got back from the Highline tour the way I like one fine. I had one final push to wrap up everything cuz you took a nap. No surprises. I did was sleep while we were in the yard finish writing my speech and then you woke up and then it was okay. Hey, we got time to do one last thing. I got one more surprise for us and he's right you hopped in the shower.

32:45 And then I ripped out the page and found the Ring. Of course, the ring was with us the entire time never left the apartment, but I was on my backpack and attack in the shock and realizing that okay. I need to find a place to put this somewhere. I can't walk around with the ring in the box cuz I have this weird bulge in my pocket pocket. Hey, what's that? Only cost some questions arranged engagement. Well, let's do as a shower. I got ready and then we decided I decided to

33:31 Make this secret trip a true secret for you asking you to keep your eyes closed right that previous mom. It was a big moment. So yeah, I put sunglasses on so I can Charles style close my eyes and people in the subway. Totally thought that sweet man is leading that poor blind girl through the subway now nice and then we walked me with my eyes closed all the way from the subway.

34:05 In Brooklyn to the Brooklyn Heights Promenade to the vent of the bunch. That was so fun. But you saw it but we were right by Street. I thought we were at lunch and there was a big highway right in front of us, but that's because just beyond the Brooklyn Heights Promenade there is a road. So I heard all the cars. So I was genuinely surprised when I open my eyes and I saw the city scape and the river and then I thought I was going to propose in that moment. I pretty much cuz it was just that that's our only other memory from that place is

34:50 I asked you to be my first kiss and you said no and then you told me why and you told me you wanted to wait until we got engaged.

34:58 So I felt excited when I open my eyes. I still haven't sure though because we waited too long. And so maybe just really hopeful and honestly when you remember you started tearing up at first I didn't I thought maybe something was wrong until I sort of backtrack in my mind about what was going on, but then I saw that they were happy tears and then I think I really need people that the letter cuz your letters that you write me have always been really really special and so I thought so if he wrote a letter for this moment to tell me yeah, I remember you said that you loved me. My heart is bloated. It was the best feeling in the world.

35:55 It was like coming home. It was that feeling of yeah, it was it was a moment. I felt like I was home because I've been waiting. I knew that you love me.

36:08 Cuz you showed me that you loved me through all of our honest talks.

36:13 And all the ways that you cared for me, but then just to hear it verbalized and hear it from your lips. It's like it put a final piece of a puzzle into place in my heart and made it whole and to that and hearing that you wanted to marry me was also very amazing. I guess to hear that you loved me was just it was like a big explosion of warrants and that was me. I'm glad you waited though. I'm so glad you waited.

36:52 Yeah, and I was the

36:57 And that was

36:59 In the biggest moment our relationship up into that boy. That was that was it so they able to get through the letter got down on one knee the got the ring put on your finger and and then we celebrated in that moment and we had two people walking by and see how you were high-fiving everybody lady who walked up. You took her picture. That was such a very sweet sweet.

37:39 Moment and

37:42 Capital off we got in an Uber. I think it was like the second time. We never been in an Uber ever and we drove to Quality Meats right by Central Park courtesy of Joshua James recommendation, and we shared a great meal and celebrated that night and then went back to the apartment next day. We got in a plane and

38:05 Go home go home, and I'm trying my way told her parents if it was next day, or if it was that night that night. Would you change anything about it if you could do it again?

38:24 Did you kiss? Oh, yes, we did owe ya. Yes. So I love you and we kissed right there. And will you actually I think it was I love you. Will you marry me smoke? Yeah, I was so excited about the I love you. And the way you marry me I kind of forgot that the gas was coming and then that was a that was a smooch six and a half years in the making so you don't hear that I need when people when people say I didn't kiss my wife until I got engaged people look at me like I have a second head on my shoulders for the record on the record Chicago, Illinois, March 8th, 2018.

39:18 Thank you for planning it out for us because of you. I would have kissed you that day.

39:28 Earlier, and then we wouldn't have such a great story. So thank you. I love you. I love you, too.

39:40 Tell bedtime story.

39:43 In a nutshell