Michael McCarty and Bill Healy

00:06 My name is Michael D McCarthy. I'm 69 years old. Today's date is September 9th 2019. I'm here in Chicago, Illinois my hometown. My interview partner is Bill we just met right? My name is Bill Haley to the i m i 36 years old. Today's date is Monday, September 9th 2019 in Chicago, Illinois at the cultural center. And I'm here with Michael who I just met but I was talked on the phone a couple times than I am curious to learn more so to get going.

00:41 Do you know I tell it's just a little bit about yourself you before I kind of your childhood and before high school. Tell me a little bit about where you grew up and put your born and raised here in Chicago. I grew up. I was born in Ida B Wells at 3 years old. We moved to the west side of Chicago. It were in Lawndale area, which is where I grew up for many many years. I went to St. Finn Barr Elementary School Saint Ignatius college preparatory and has some very interesting Adventures. They're beginning there. Then I was a member of the Illinois chapter of Black Panther Party here in Chicago at quarter here in Chicago. I was in the military and that's an interesting story how I went from one to the other station in Korea in the 70s and then coming out when to Circle University of illinois-chicago for Time fact actually two times.

01:41 I actually became an acupuncturist I graduated for what was then called the Midwest center for the study of Oriental medicine now called the Midwest College of acupuncture. I was in the first graduating class in 1981. I traveled around the world in 1992. I became a professional Storyteller and I've been running my mouth around the country and around the world ever since I've been to about 40 different countries and I love my job. I just celebrated my 20th wedding anniversary with my wife Valerie and she gave me the most wonderful book that she created about our meeting and our life together.

02:27 And I think that will get us started to tell me the the the Westside when you were growing up for the west side. Looks like we'll back when did 1953 when we moved to the west side of Chicago or around Pulaski and Roosevelt. When we first got in there it was there were blacks and they were whites little farther south. There was a Mexican mule team that still is understand but over the years all the whites moved out and it became a predominantly black community for most of my childhood and still is to this day. I actually and people would not Venture downtown as much as they do these days are tell me like that understanding was that you could get everything you needed on Roosevelt Road or that small businesses where people went to the grocery store, but we didn't do a lot of that.

03:23 My mother every almost every Saturday no more than every other Saturday. We went downtown she would shop at Hillman's grocery store downtown and I can't I think it was on Washington at the time then on if you didn't go there on the Saturday, she would go over our Route 26 and Pulaski, which was that that that Mexican area that she would shop there and we went everywhere we went all over the place when we go up on Madison because that was the big that was a goldblatt's some other Woolworths and things like that van Madison around Pulaski. So we didn't do the Norm Norm is not our way. We who's we will my family so it's not even my mother and father.

04:17 My mother was born in 1908 my father and 1902 older brother Edward was born in 1925. He passed away some years ago couple decades ago. My sister was born in 1930. She still alive and my brother who's sitting out here waiting. He was born in 1936 and then in 1950, I surprised everybody my mother thought she had gas 14 years younger than 25 years younger than my siblings. So you had a lot of like parental type figures in your life will actually know because

05:04 By the time I came along people have lived their own lives. My my brother was closest to me. He was always doing stuff. He wasn't parental. He was more like a big big big brother and my sister are we all lived in in the same building, but she was not so parental with me cuz my mother and father were there it was in a manner of speaking like I was an only child, but I wasn't

05:33 And you know tell me about your your parents. What were they like my father my father? I like to say like this. My father worked. He worked at International Harvester that work the graveyard shift and then during the day he did odd jobs. We own when we move to the West Side. He bought the building and he would rent out the second floor. We live on the first floor. Sometimes he rented out the basement but more times and not that's where my my my sister like one point my brother and then my sister reside

06:12 My father was a very he worked hard. He worked hard he was.

06:20 A Storyteller but as a kid, I didn't want to hear that stuff. You don't hear your father's story is but he was startled porch with his with his friends and they would swap stories my mother. My mother was from Barbados. And my mother is why I am the way I am in many many regards especially my love of reading and learning. My mother used to say if you can read you could do anything and she

06:48 Instilled in me the love and joy of reading and she encouraged me constantly by saying that I could be anything. I wanted to be. So when I was about in 5th grade and I decided I wanted to be a physicist and going to space. My mother said you go boy. There was no. Oh my God, what is wrong with him? Why is he thinking of that? She encouraged me? Encourage me mightily.

07:16 And what type of kid where you wild and crazy energetic to the nth degree and after understatement. I I was everywhere very gregarious. Lots of friends. We would come to my house and play games had lots of different games very much a social creature fun-loving kind of guy. I'm always willing to try something and get my mother was encouraging me. So when I grew up,

07:46 By 4th 5th grade. I'm coming downtown on my own traveling places on have you going to the movies and my mother encouraged me to be independent also encouraged me to follow her rules. Not that independent but gregarious and outgoing.

08:09 Just want to make sure.

08:11 We'll be able to think we'll be able to hear them to think they'll to tell him not to talk or text.

08:18 Can you hear them?

08:21 Yes, so you were saying that you were a wild and crazy kid and and

08:29 But you must have been good in school. Yes. I was getting my mother and she believed in education.

08:36 She made so I had to ncci was in private schools all through after kindergarten. That was the only public school I ever went to so first through eighth grade at st. Finbar and then got into st. Ignatius and you couldn't just get into st. Ignatius. So yeah, I was smart. And you said you couldn't get into Ignatius tell me about the high school where you went back in the day Saint Ignatius College Prep. It was one of the is one of the most prestigious College Prep in the country and especially in the midwest. You have to take an exam in order to get in and you got a tattoo get a certain grade level to get in and once you got into Cigna Saint Ignatius and graduated that were lots of opportunities awaiting you because there are Ignatius alumni everywhere. So it was a school that was taught by Jesuits.

09:33 Which had is good and bad aspects judge you wish were rough. This was in the days when I went to school with the days of

09:45 Teacher are none could pop you upside the head or get the ruler out or and and in terms of saying friend bar are there was one non-system are Eukarya if she caught you talking in class. She kept a industrial-strength bottle of Tabasco sauce in her desk and she would pour Tabasco sauce down your throat until your eyeballs sweat. And so it was all boys of the time when you have the time it was an all-boys school. And what year did you enter the high school started in the fall of 1965 and I got kicked out March of 1969. And so tell me just before about anything before before the senior year was three years of school. What was it? Like the first one? It was a education because now I went from a

10:42 All black school to a school where

10:47 95% of the students were white and that's the rest 5% was everything else black Latino Asian native and I join the track team. I was in a lot of different clubs and died at the various points in time, especially my freshman year, but I spent a lot of that track team with my thing. I ran hurdles I ran Sprints I broad jumped in high jump and what have you that's pretty good. I was pretty good. I was

11:19 Going to end up with some scholarships. I have scholarships offers Notre Dame University of illinois-urbana as another place of but those are the ones that I remember and like I said, I like people and so

11:36 Despite the fact that the school was predominately white and there were some issues with people and dealing with black folks and what have you I gravitated towards the people who didn't have all that nonsense in their heads and many of those guys are still my friend, especially Kevin Conway. We were classmates. We were on the track team together and we have remained friends.

12:03 Ever since

12:05 And is he Kevin Conway? Sounds like a Irish politics though the time like of that era and how did it feel inside the school will inside the school? I can remember at one point a guy wanted to beat me up because I was black and he didn't want me there in the school and another black student. I was a freshman I think and this guy was upperclassmen another black upperclassmen intervened on my behalf.

12:38 For the most part that was that those were rare things that happened in the school itself. All right.

12:48 Sometimes One Summer just had to be around the junior year.

12:55 A bunch of us at Ignatius black and white, we got these jobs and we're supposed to go through these door to door to sell. I don't know magazines. I don't know. I don't remember what it was. Somebody had the brilliant idea to send black students over to what was mayor Daley's neighborhood.

13:14 And so we're going door-to-door me and my buddy Tyler and people are either not opening the door slamming the doors in our faces or enters us introducing us to very interesting vocabulary selections. And so we're going from door-to-door at at one point one of our white classmates who was driving. He pulls up and says come on come on, come on, come on get in car getting the car. So we getting the car now. He was doing the same thing, but he was a block or two away and a group of whites was gathering to come and get me and and Tyler and

13:53 This was a place. I can't think of this the name of this neighborhood. There was a Catholic priest in Bridgeport who taught racism from the pulpit.

14:08 And they had a sign on one on the church. No niggahs or something like that. That was the atmosphere at the time.

14:19 The Saint Ignatius was a little bit different. It was it was it? Well, there was there was some of that but it was not

14:28 Predominant most of my white classmates and and got along with me or us there like said we were on different teams funny. There's a book called. Why are all the black kids sitting together in the cafeteria? Something like that? And that was the way it was we did for the most part they're worth there were few blacks who ventured out here. And like I said, I have white friends, but for the most part we hung together to support each other and you have good memories of the track team and of the classes that you took track team, especially dr. Mallard was the was the coach and he was a great guy. I said, most of our teachers were interesting some of them weren't someone were a pain in the butt and what happened that was teacher-student stuff. There was no racial stuff involved I had

15:23 I had a a Jesuit trainee. I forget what they called him teacher who flocked me for my class. For the assignment. He fucked me for the whole class because I didn't double space a paper I wrote so I had to repeat the class. I don't think it was I don't think so. I think it was just he was a knucklehead. So that was that but for the most part my track team experiences were very very good the issues, but at the same time

16:01 There were a couple of things. So the Civil Rights Movement going on all around us.

16:07 My sophomore year me and a buddy John Dilworth. We were going to a party over on the South Side around. What was what is now King Drive now South within South Park and is near Dunbar High School and we got jumped on by game. We walk made the wrong turn past the wrong people and they proceeded to beat the snot out of us at one point. We got separated and I went to this cop for help and I'm saying frantically still there and you looked at me and said so

16:43 And I got into his car and had him take me to the police station first. He tried to drop me off at the building where my friend was & the Gang saw me in the car. They were coming to finish the job and get me out of the car. He dropped me off at the police station didn't take me in at only have my assistant and I got into the police station to cops all white cops and just laughed and laughed cuz I'm bloody I'm swelling and they just laughed and laughed eventually my friend got away and we met at that police station went to the hospital what have you but that was my wake-up call. That's when I started becoming an activist and studying and reading and that's when we started our black student organization that said Ignatius eventually, we would go around to other Catholic high schools predominantly girl schools to talk about race.

17:34 At one of these schools in the suburbs. I don't remember which school or which suburb again. All these schools are predominantly white.

17:42 During the Q&A.

17:45 This white student.

17:48 Ask this question.

17:50 How do you sit with your tails in your pants?

17:58 She actually believed that we had tails of blacks that tails and I that was one of the few times in my life when I was almost speechless.

18:10 So there are a lot of things going on and I also became involved cuz I'm reading I'm evolving student organizations all over the city private schools public schools were demanding more education that including black history and culture other than slavery and Booker T, Washington and George Washington Carver. I just leave before Martin Luther King was a part of that and I just interrupt. How did you respond to that to which the girl I like I said, I was speechless and I don't remember. I don't remember. I'm sure there was some words about my god. You're an idiot or something to that effect.

18:52 Yeah, so then what you said you mentioned Martin Luther King and it was his death that precipitated the the walk out that you were part of it was the the death was.

19:09 No, it was a part of the time it was a part of the motivation but the things about the thing about the walkout at that time black student organizations at high schools and universities all over the country were demanding better education black studies programs and things of that nature. And here we are the same nation has a white school in the black community with absolutely no interaction with that Community few years ago. I did a program at a library here in Winter Chicago suburbs and the librarian who hired me turned out had lived. There was a project right across the street from Saint Ignatius. She lived in that project and when I talked to said the same thing I said to you about it having no interactions. She said, yeah, we felt like we weren't wanted there.

19:59 And so we submitted our List of Demands black studies Outreach the community more people of color are minority students in the schools and what-have-you. We presented our List of Demands and his administration property said get your butts out of here. Okay, so that's when we staged I walk out unless it was March of 69. I believe that you were what I craving for you. I was a senior I was a senior I was about to graduate Tyler my buddy and crime the we will he was also a senior and most of most of the seniors walked out in a lot of the other under underclassmen also and there were a few white students that walked out to paint that picture for us up to that moment. Like what it was a tense was it? Oh, yeah, what's a test? I remember the morning of it and what you put day was it or what month was March? So I'll remember I don't remember the date.

20:59 1969 and that morning someone or early the day before someone had told the administration and word had leaked the parents and that morning during the announcements. They made an announcement that sir we hear the does going to be it is US walk out and they just tried to discourage us from doing it what have you and we wouldn't discourage we walked out there was about 30 of us. If you look at the 1969 ignatious yearbook, you'll see two pages of pictures from that walk out. Like I said, I think it was 25 30 students to walked out that day and it was a big to do cuz tank Nations has a big to do my mother found out about it on the news. OK. I came home that evening fortunately my father was at work cuz he works graveyard shift. Otherwise, I probably wouldn't be here talking to you right now my brother there. He tried to fill in for my father. He was going to whoop my butt but I talked cuz I can talk and I talked him out of it and

21:59 The truth of the matter is that I had done with my mother had taught me to do. My mother told me taught me that if you see something wrong you have an obligation to at the very least. If you can't do something about it, you notified someone who can do something about it, but you don't just watch it. You don't just sit by you take some action and that's what I done. So when I came home that night, my mother was in tears cuz you realize what was going to happen as well as old as walk out and my brother and sister were trying to console her the next day the school called us call. My father went to the school was notified that Tyler and I had been expelled from the school and okay fine. We knew that this was a possibility in fact a probability. So I had already been a member of the Black Panther Party now is a full-time member of the Black Panther Party.

22:53 That's when I met Fred Hampton. So tell me just because when I'm already in my head going to start editing and you said Tyler and I were expelled can just say what I was expelled to in case we see him and then also the explain what the purpose of the walkout was. What were you hoping will the idea was?

23:15 Outdoor like I reach the community having involvement with the community more minority students in the school.

23:26 And blacks not just a black studies program but in classes such as history to actually include various things up from black history other than slavery. Those are some of the primary motivations and tell when that didn't happen you the walk-out was to drive tension to that. Yeah. Yeah, that's exactly what it was. We if they did not we thought if they did not acknowledge and what have you did what they did? Well, we will have a walk out because I will get attention and it did and what happened to you as a result of the walk-up will Celexa. I'm kicked out of school and

24:08 For me that Mark my full entry as an activist full-time entry as active as so as I said, I was a member of the the Black Panther Illinois chapter 2 Black Panther Party here in Chicago. I was on the education Cadre. We taught taught the political education classes.

24:27 I wasn't I am a very good speaker. So I would speak and whatever else is needed. We all we did the other things sold newspapers worth the direction for children program or the health clinic and things of that nature. And so just to help me make sure I understand it correctly. You're like 17 years old at the time. I was eight. So you're 18 years old. You were a few months from graduating from great school scholarships waiting for me and physics and math.

25:01 And the administration kicked you out for for this then and now it can only be understood to be you following through on your beliefs and standing by them and

25:19 You know, what would tell me about that what that did to you actually it was expected that.

25:28 If they had done something other it would have been nice but it would have been a shock because it was the norm at that particular point in time that administration's weren't weren't saying. Okay. Yeah, we were wrong we should do we should change our ways thank you for letting us know know so once I was kicked out if I was committed I was committed to this active-active activism. I was committed to making a difference to making a change I saw thing. I saw that there were things that needed to be changed. And so now my commitments full-time once I got kicked out of school and did your parents understand that initially no initially know my father wanted to send me on to a much closer relationship with God at one point, but the interesting thing is that at some point I remember coming home.

26:24 And my mother was talking with one of her friends talking about me and my activities my evolve with the Black Panther Party The Breakfast children program the things that we're doing and even my father came to have a certain level of understanding and even respect for what what I was doing. When when did you first hear of the Black Panthers see that the organization started in October of 66? I became aware of it. It had to be around 67 when the head the headquarters was in Oakland California and members of the Black Panther Party went to Sacramento to protest of the law of the Black Panthers with Patrol the police in California because you had the right in California to bear arms, as long as they were not concealed. Well the Mumford act I believe with the law that was introduced.

27:24 To take that right away now.

27:28 If we had been a white organization and the Mumford act have been introduced the NRA would have been all over that and already had nothing to say it's not supported that because it was black folks doing that. So that was in the papers. That was a magazine called Rampart Swiss was a an activist leftist socio-political magazine. I was reading a Maria holic still out. And so that's how I first became aware of the Black Panther Party. So in November of 1968 when they open the office at Madison and Western

28:07 I was there.

28:09 That just like Noah's up against the window. Like what are you guys doing in there or where I came in. I came in and they say okay. Here's the deal. You have to be have to take political education classes. You have to understand what we're about as an example. One of my friends one of the most common misconceptions about the Black Panther Party was that it was a black Klu Klux Klan and in fact, nothing could have been further from the truth the

28:36 Black Panther Party was against oppression and it was against anybody being oppressed regardless of race Creed or color and we had the original Rainbow Coalition was the Illinois chapter the Black Panther Party The Young Lords, which had been I believe of Puerto Rican street gang was became political and the young Patriots poor Appalachian whites from Uptown. That was the original Rainbow Coalition and then expanded here in the city and expanded across the country when we had the 50th anniversary of the Black Panther Party in Oakland a few years ago.

29:12 The brown Berets the Redguard there were all these different representatives from all these groups who had been inspired by the Black Panther Party has mentioned I traveled around the world and there were Aborigines who in inspired and made their version of the Black Panther Party Mari and there's still an organization. They call themselves The Polynesian Panthers. Alright Downing throughout South America. There are groups who were and still are inspired by the activities of Black Panther Party and tell me about Fred Hampton and how you first met him Fred was dynamic.

29:53 A dynamic individual any young man when he was murdered he was 21 years old. He's been an activist in high school.

30:02 Doing some of the same things that we were doing and when the Black Panther Party came to Chicago he became the chairman the deputy chairman of the Illinois chapter of the Black Panther Party. He was a dynamic speaker a motivator ultimate activist. He was someone who was completely and utterly committed and that's how and where I learned about commitment was through observing and being in the presence of Fred Hampton, and he was someone

30:37 Certain people certain leaders have certain qualities. Some people are good speakers. Some people are organizational motivators. Some people can gather people together. Fred was all of these things. All right, he was all of these things and

30:58 He said he would.

31:01 Probably die for the people and he did and he did he loved he was completely and utterly committed to to the work.

31:10 And so Rusty. I hope you don't mind that I'm going to say this but I was talking to Rosie about what why you're coming in and letting some people like Amy is from out of town and she didn't know who Fred Hampton. How would you explain the significance of Fred Hampton Inn? What is life and death meant well again here you have someone who you got this. So you got this you are all these the first people first within the organization you have personalities. There are people who certainly couldn't be in a booth like this together about being restrained.

31:48 Fred was a person who?

31:52 You transcended your petty stuff.

31:56 When you are around Fred Fred was about to work Fred was about the movement and he was such a motivator that alright so you and I don't like each other but we are here for the same cause that goes to the Wayside. He was that kind of individual. He was always trying to bring people together and that's a frightening thing the idea that you have poor Appalachian whites and and blacks working together. Oh my goodness, cuz there's this divide-and-conquer strategy that goes on and has always been a great way to keep people who should be working together from doing so and Fred was able to get people to see beyond that and I was the other thing about him. All right, so he had a vision

32:46 But Fred because of his commitment to that vision and his ability to communicate could get you to see that vision and embrace it.

33:00 All right. That's the last one of his that some of his many many qualities and

33:09 So then tell me yeah and I see this is where my understanding is a little hazy. I've seen that movie the murderer from stances that led up to it and whether it's the FBI or the police like it's all a little late. Here we go.

33:30 The FBI had a program cointelpro the counterintelligence program. The purpose that a program was to as Jag Hoover said there will be no black Messiah. There will be no black leader who will bring black people together and that also implied that there would be no person or individuals who would bring other people together and that Fred was doing all of that. So the counterintelligence program would do things like this.

34:00 William Oneil our head of security was the FBI plant. He was the agent for the FBI our head of security. There were chapters of the Black Panther Party that was started by FBI agents in plants. And whole idea is to you get right into the midst of it and caused destruction. So O'Neal would so here we are where where where where where three people who are working together. And one of them is O'Neill will nealis sent. Hey, you know, he's doing this planting seeds planting seeds planting seeds or he he was I hit a security he would send people on these missions that would result in people getting busted or be people getting shot people getting killed and it was to sow dissension within the party. So that was cointelpro now here in Chicago. There was a org,

35:00 Station within the police force call the red Squad dirty tricks Squad red Squad was to Cowan coin. Tell Pro. What's the FBI with the red Squad was to do the Chicago Police and that the people who raided and murdered Fred Hampton what part of that red Squad? I got it all sounds so crazy like it sounds like unbelievable. It sounds well. I wish it was there is a book called the burglary.

35:33 And it's a book about these a peace activist who broke into an FBI office in Media, Pennsylvania Vania think it was March 7th, Monday, March 7th, 1971. They stole suitcases full of files. And that's how we found out about cointelpro because there was a piece of paper and it had that word cointelpro. They sent copies of these files to politicians and two newspapers and one newspaper man. I can't remember what use paper but it's in the book. He threw the Freedom of Information Act found out about what cointelpro was and all the particulars about it and all the dirty tricks. That wasn't that were involved. Let me give you the example of one of the most treacherous things that happened in California. There was a woman that her name and lose me. She was an actress her husband was a French director.

36:32 They were married allowed to see husband's you were married and she wasn't supporter of the Black Panther Party. She would raise funds and what have you Jagger Hoover sent the LA office of the FBI on order that they had to neutralize her.

36:48 This is what they did.

36:51 They had a agent at the LA Times.

36:57 Hat that agent start a rumor that this woman who was pregnant was not pregnant by her husband, but she was pregnant by a panther who she was having an affair with. All right. This caused Great consternation to this woman.

37:15 She miscarried baby died. She committed suicide.

37:21 Jacob Hoover sent the LA office of the FBI a commendation for a job well done.

37:29 All right, that was the level and that was just that there were many things like that. They were done Geronimo. Pratt talks about how he and his wife were put it against pitted against each other and it happened to me when I left the Black Panther Party my my wife and I would never in the Black Panther Party Party when we left.

37:53 The FBI came to me and wanted me to rejoin the party and being former and I told him what they could do with this idea and they said this to me.

38:03 We can make your life very difficult, either you work for us or you won't work and they proceeded to destroy my life. They had a woman calling my wife like she was my girlfriend. I had to quit the job. I was at I apply for other jobs. My application would disappear or a job for which I was perfect. I was supposed to start all the sudden. They didn't know who the heck I was. I had three Apartments broken into eight times over a two-year span. They completely and utterly destroyed my life. Remember. I had already left the party. I was going on about my business going back to school, but I wasn't playing their game and so they work to destroy me.

38:49 And tell me though about the you were there the night Fred Hampton was killed. So it was morning The Raid took place December 4th 1969 around 4:30 a.m. The night before we had a rally at the People's Church over on Ashland and a bunch of us came back to your friend's apartment and we're hanging out with discussing we're talking with eating and I falling asleep on the couch Mark Clark was at the doing security at the front door and he was from Peoria, Illinois. And the reason he was at the door is called Steven Steve Hobbs who was originally assigned to be at the door. He also had to get stuff for the breakfast program the next day. So Mark filled in for him and then 4:30 or so the police came and

39:47 Mark was first one killed. He was at the door. The only shot that was fired that was fired from his shotgun cuz when he was shot he dropped the gun and it discharged into the ceiling.

40:01 Now couple of aspects of this.

40:04 Fred was in his bedroom at the back of the house or William O'Neill had given the FBI the layout but here's what he also had done with most people do not know about the night before he had given Fred six times the lethal dose of seconal he put it in his Kool-Aid red never regained Consciousness throughout the raid all the stuff was going on and at the end of the rate, he was still alive. One of the Panthers who was being handcuffed in the front of the house heard. One of the officers say he's still alive and in the sump pump two bullets, he's good and dead now, but even if they hadn't put those two bullets in his head he would have died anyway because of the seconal

40:53 There were it was Hanrahan Edward. Hanrahan said that it had been a shootout that the officers and had to shoot to protect their lives and to prove this he pointed to all these things what she said were bullet holes in the in the other walls. They were nails. They were nail holes. The only shot that have been fired was like I said Mark Clark and I believe it was at least if not more than a hundred rounds were fired. Fired by officers. Where were you during this when this happened? Well at the raid happened at 4:30 to 30, I woke up.

41:34 And well

41:36 And I was I wasn't driving so I was on the bus to walking Whatever by the time I got home.

41:42 I hardly lay down in the bed when I got the call that the rate it happen.

41:47 And one of the people or the person who took my place on the couch was one of the people who was shot I believe.

41:57 Tell me about not looking back at that. How does that how does that affect your how has that changed your life? Well.

42:09 One of the reasons that I do what I do now in terms of my storytelling keeping the story alive is because I'm still here.

42:20 And many of us who were part of the the Black Panther Party in general but the Illinois chapter in particular, even though the party has been defunct for some time. We are still continuing the struggle we do what we can will will will be at Chicago State. There's an event going on in Chicago State tomorrow. We're a bunch of us will be there. We meet We Gather will activist we do things. We could we keep the story alive. We keep the activities a lot. We continue to work to Serve the People.

42:55 And

42:58 But they I mean that's a very long distance VR like yeah, that's very

43:05 You got a lot of space and time to reflect on it and to integrate it into your life when it happened right away, though.

43:14 I mean within the years time you were kicked out of school for this Injustice and for protesting Injustice and then to have this.

43:23 Venom Dynamic heroic on a guy killed under these circumstances you must've it must have changed the way you see the world knowing. Yes, and I say that like that for this reason.

43:41 One of the things we understood.

43:44 Was that there was a good possibility that would we would be in prison. We would be killed we would be tortured we would be forced into Exile. This was a part of what was going on. This was the consequence of standing up and we accepted that we accepted that now didn't make it any less painful when cuz there were many of our comrades who were imprisoned and some are still in prison or were shot or or killed or forced into exile.

44:21 It was the way of the world and I remember.

44:26 There was a play in LA that the sister had put together and it was about people joining the Black Panther Party in California. And these guys who were coming from either Washington or Oregon probably Washington and they were I can't see black panther party and they got to California.

44:53 Commitment. You know, how committed are you and are you willing to deal with the consequences of that commitment to be at the Civil Rights Movement the Black Power movement union movement there. There's going to be people who will try to stop you who will try to hurt you who will do anything. They can to dissuade you from being involved in these activities and your level of commitment is I'm willing to face that in fact, not only am I willing to face that I must face it because I got to stand up.

45:29 For what's right?

45:33 Is there anything else that you want people to know about Fred Hampton?

45:40 Read more about him learn watch the the murder of Fred Hampton there the assassination of Fred Hampton is a book that just was published in the last couple years by one of our attorneys. There's another book

45:57 And all of sudden that having a brain fry can't remember the name of it, but read study find out you see somebody say something don't just take it at face value research find out what the truth of the matter is cuz I remember hearing somebody on ESPN or Sports show say, oh, yeah the Black Ku Klux Klan like that's the put the Black Panthers were

46:27 Find out find out for yourself even stuff that I say. Okay, look it up read the books that I mentioned find your own books, but find out things and

46:39 And this is the thing that I

46:44 Preach if you will.

46:46 There's so much going on in the world and sometimes weren't overwhelmed. What can I do? What can I do? What can I do? And here's the answer?

46:54 The answers the question. What can you do?

46:57 Find that thing no matter how small I'm A literacy advocate so I give away books. All right, people are hungry. Perhaps you can help with that. People are homeless. Perhaps you can help with that. It doesn't have to be major. All right. I'm not saying okay throw away your job and and do this.

47:17 Find whatever it is that you can do.

47:23 Then do it.

47:25 Simple as that

47:28 And that's a good place to end. But I do want to discontinue that if you don't mind it don't you know just on the way here. I called my dad and I have an interview Michael McCarty and he said yeah, you know what he did was amazing and he paid the price for it and I don't like in his Vantage Point getting kicked out of Ignatius was a sack a sacrifice that you made for your I mean, can you talk about that? Because at the time I mean not not at the time still to this day, it ain't cheap to go to Saint Ignatius. My parents worked very hard it cost more to go to Saint Ignatius. Then a lot of the colleges cost more than go to circle and a lot of other colleges that somebody told me what it cost not a lot.

48:17 But again, the question is

48:22 What is your level of commitment? What are you willing to do?

48:26 2

48:28 Make a change to instigate a change to help in whatever way you can and when that happened to me. I have I had and I have no regrets.

48:40 I consider it one of the most wonderful things I've done in my life was to make that commitment to take those steps and

48:50 I've been tracks that encourage people do something no matter how small it seems be nice to someone listen to someone volunteer someplace donate to something whatever you can do do that thing cuz again when

49:13 Henry V. St. Crispin the saint Crispin speech Henry V. I work in prisons. I teach a storytelling Workshop in prisons in California. And I introduced the inmates to a variety things to help him find a doctor tell their stories. One of them is that Saint Crispin speech and the essence of that whenever I introduce it to my class when I read it if I read it. I Cry I Cry can't not cry. I can't welling up right now because I'm remembering Fred. I'm remembering Spurgeon Jake Winters. I'm there all the Larry Roper said they were all these people.

49:51 Who gave the ultimate sacrifice they gave their lives either by being killed or being in prison and

50:00 The essence of that Saint Crispin speech is that

50:06 There was those who didn't show up for that battle England battling France and the British were outnumbered like 10 to 1 or something like that and people who are supposed to come and fight didn't cuz they thought they were going to get killed ended up winning the battle but the but the thing is is that the king says

50:27 There are those who will rule that they did not come here and make that commitment. They were supposed to this day.

50:36 And when I look back on that time, and I and I talked with and see my friends from that error.

50:44 I'm very happy to have done what I did at the Met the people I've met to have met someone like Fred Hampton cuz they ain't a lot of people like Fred Hampton throughout history and I had the great opportunity to meet him to know him and to be inspired by him.

51:03 And just to have a little bit more of the if you can describe kind of you were at the at the People's Church and that night kind of the the walk over the scene. What does it look like at the church and loaded it look like it was it was Fred's speeches online. You can see some of them if he was you can kill a revolutionary, but you can't kill the revolution. That was the one who are phrase that he made that was his phrases become famous and you see these people there and you see people who when Fred got through talking to fly. Okay, I got to do something. What can I do and the idea that to this day

51:48 To this day those of us who were there are still inspired and those who learn about Fred become inspired. He was a treasure. He was a complete and absolute treasure.

52:03 And the

52:08 Yeah. I mean do you don't put any do you describe any kind of Providence or any kind of Firepower to why you weren't there at that moment or do you think about what what it was the well, I guess I do I do because I've had a variety of experiences I should have been dead a long time ago in many times on a variety of things and I came to ultimately come to an understanding after going to India meeting spiritual teacher at having this whole other areas of what you are now. It's asking me to come come to see that. Yeah.

52:50 I was spared and I had the experiences I have so that I could share those experiences so I could be here talking about this because that's a gift that I have and

53:04 I have these experiences. I have the ability ability to communicate to people.

53:10 And I have a purpose. I came to that inside a long time ago that I had a purpose. I'm here for a reason and I do whatever I can to fulfill that purpose. There's a documentary about me a fact I was here a couple of months ago and it was being shown here. It was great turn. I had 300 people upstairs, but it's called belonging in the USA the story of the of of Michael D McCarty. We just won first place at this film festival in New in New Mexico, and it's me talking about my experiences last week. It was shown in Finland and it's being shown around the country is being seen all over the world. And again, that's me. That's what I'm here for. I'm here to

53:54 Disseminate information to bring things up and have people look at them. I Don't Preach I share I share my stories. I tell my Stories Ice tell stories of history and culture of movements and what have you and hopefully someone will be inspired one time. I was at a high school in LA and I was talking about the importance of reading. These are I had a classroom full of boys black and Latino boys. Most of whom did not read. I told the story of a true story of a of a black head during slavery 8 years old, his job was to be the Masters playmate for when the master son was learning to read he knew that he wasn't supposed to be there but he knew was important so he would stay far enough away and nobody noticed him. But he be paying attention one day. He he got hold of a something with some words on and he was he was reading trying to practice reading the master found them.

54:53 Had them tied up had bought into slaves from the field as slaves from the house. Had the boy beaten.

55:01 Whipped and then had his eyes gouged out with Burning Heart hot rod.

55:08 I told the story to these boys to exemplify how important it is to read and the teacher had to students writing. Thank you notes and one of the boys wrote the story.

55:22 I decide to be a reader.

55:31 And maybe I could talk to you for a long time. But I feel like I want to honor your fact that you came in.

55:41 What are we what questions do you have?

55:51 How do you see like the funeral the youth and the activism presently, you know, like from what you experience to what you see now that the youth are doing or you know, it's very different from. Time to well. Yes, and no. Yes, it's very different cuz of that time it was it was it was a big moving but I'm I'm reading this book right now about this young man who was a teacher and he got involved in Ferguson with with Mike Brown and there's the black lives matters of movement is going on there. All these things that are going on and people are waking up. People are seeing that okay.

56:34 It's not you I can't walk around like this. I can't walk around with blinders. All right, cuz I don't have to be an activist to be attacked. You can be walking down the street minding your own business eating some Skittles and be attacked and people are saying I've got to do something about it and more and more people are doing just that more and more people are waking up. There was a woman who in in Los Angeles a group of us who were in The Black Panther Party. We have a breakfast the Second Sunday of every month and this woman came because we're sort of a center for people who are dealing with issues and what have you and she came because it was her brother. It was her cousin. It was someone close to her who was was murdered and

57:25 She said I've got to do something. I can't go on with my life the way it was. I've got to do something. So more and more people are doing that more and more people are taking the road to activism saying it's not enough for me to just that was a shame and go on about my business they're doing things. So as we say and if said for decades the struggle continues,

57:56 Anything else you haven't?

57:58 Anything that we need to work on? I don't know. Sometimes it seems like I didn't live in that in that time, right? That's why don't you just described for this past 50 minutes or so. And so for me, it seems like being an outsider from the African American culture in the US and coming from another country. It seems that in that time there was more of a revolution going on and now I don't know somehow it seems to me like even though there's a lot of activism going on that. There's not a lot of like, you know, like a wet well,

58:38 Yes or no. Here's the yes.

58:42 There aren't a lot of Fred Hampton's there aren't a lot of Malcolm X's. There aren't a lot of Martin Luther King's.

58:51 But and here's the thing that's important to me and I say this.

58:58 If you're looking for a leader look in the mirror. All right that we we need to take that step. We need to go out there to get to get we need to. Okay. What can we do because the whole idea behind a cuanto program was to keep their from being a leader? So the way the counter that is for there to be many leaders many many leaders and I mentioned our breakfast in La everybody comes black lives matters new Brown Berets Asian American groups and what have you so fine what you can do find other people who are doing stuff and support them. And when I say support them. Okay, will you don't have money to support them find you got a Facebook page post an event go to something learn something about somebody else learns something.

59:53 So

59:55 You do you said you said this thing right right now about you? Okay to shows you're from someplace else. Well, I want to know where you're from and what goes on there. I want to know about those things and that's how we and Richard cell and that's how weak we come to see not alone aeroview. But a worldview there's a I have a car covered with bumper stickers. I have over 300 bumper stickers on my car. One of them says no one is free. While others are oppressed.

01:00:26 And we have to remember that there was that talk speech that was given its a phrase. It was during the Nazi era first they came for the Socialists, but I was not a socialist and it goes on and on the social Democrats the Communists the other trade unionists and then they came for me but there was no one left. So people look and you see stuff happening up to oh, well, you could be next you got to do something.

01:00:56 And they have a lot of questions.

01:01:06 Holding their own bottle

01:01:08 Going on outside the US and how is that also affects, you know?

01:01:14 Whatever is happening here, cuz the world is like that and that's why I'm very much aware. I'm very much aware was happening on the board is not only in Mexico, but all throughout Central America and the world because this it has been Global and something that happens over there affects everyone eventually, so we have to broaden Horizons.

01:01:39 You hear something educate yourself?

01:01:42 Yeah, you don't know I'm reading this book about Attica right now. It's all so unbelievable. It's all like I just can't I mean I'm reading it and I'm so the same time I'm like, how did this happen? And how does this wasn't just the uprising But like after if after all that stuff and the thing about it that it aint you but again we tend to will say you had that little isolation bubble. You just see what's happened to you you don't care about what's going on over there. But what's going on over there there Ripples and those ripples don't just okay. So we'll go around you right now and then

01:02:28 It's so you don't live in Chicago anymore. But we're here in Chicago you like coming back to Chicago. Yeah, but it's also been the

01:02:40 You know at the same time that's the place where Fred Hampton can grow and you know send out his message. It's also the place that murdered a man. It's also the place of the source of a lot of activism today and but a lot of the push back to it at such. Can you just say what Chicago in your mind? What does Chicago mean to you? And what does what is home is home is where I'm from is with it is in Chicago that I became who I am and so I will always care about it. My family lives here my friends live here, but I have I have family most a lot of places. I have friends everywhere. So Chicago is very special to me and always will be and I'll keep coming back.

01:03:31 Wonderful. Thank you very much for making time for us very welcome.