Claire Kyoung and Minna Apostolova

00:02 My name is Nina postolovskaya. I'm 21 years old. Today's date is November 4th 2021 and we are at Vanderbilt University and I'm going to be talking to Claire kyoung and she is one of my good friends.

00:16 Hi, my name is Clara Kim. I'm also 21 today is also November 4th, 2021. We are at Vanderbilt University and I'll be talking to Mina and she is my best friend.

00:30 All right, let's get started. OK Google. What are the first things we can talk about is just maybe a little bit more about ourselves or for the clear. What do you, what do you major in? And what do you study here? And Vanderbilt? You're a size two major, and a piano performance. Minor. How about you do? Chemistry and chemical biology and a minor in scientific Computing and I specifically am interested in him you Knology. I work at the Vanderbilt University Medical Center in the doctor. Mary Phillips laugh at I study tumor Immunology. Wow, it's very exciting. What do you do outside of class?

01:14 Oh boy. I've recently picked up a few Hobbies. I was obsessed with him for a little while. And then I realized that I had to go back home too often. So I gave them away and now, I'm into belly and sleeping. Sleeping is good. I also watch a lot of Grey's, Anatomy.

01:37 Play Kali car the day but it's fine. Obviously, outside of school. I love listening to music. That's kind of my therapy. I think that's also what kept me sane throughout the pandemic are good at singing. Oh you're amazing. But I guess in terms of extracurricular things. I'm really passionate about scientific communication, which is actually a passion was galvanized by the pandemic. So I helped found a stem newspaper here called the Vanderbilt Vanguard. And I spend a lot of time and in my lab as well. I love you working on, on our, on our topics of research. We specifically study dysfunction in killer T cells and cancer.

02:35 And I was also part of a student advocate for Public Health Group. Well, there was also a part of what we're trying to figure it out. Yeah. I feel like that's that's kind of reflective though. Of, you know, how some of the pandemic like related initiatives have kind of fizzled out. I don't know what's in her. Don't really know what to do with them anymore. I have a lot of student, orgs, and general have been sold out, like nobody comes to our events anymore. Or maybe that's just my clubs. I definitely feel like, that's the case. I feel like the sense of community was just totally upended, you know, and we just don't really know what to do from here. I feel like there was such a huge disruption to life that we know. We don't know like what what's allowed and what's not and what were supposed to do.

03:35 Exactly. How do professors cancel class and just assumed instead to, this is just school, doesn't feel real kind of. That's exactly. I think what it's like, well, I wonder if we could maybe like start and do you want to just talk about like the the, the day we got the email and I was, I was eating dinner. I think I was eating a rap from the pub, which is very good. But I heard the pup doesn't exist anymore, which is sad. And I remember, I was sitting with a few of my other friends and we got the email. We thought it was a joke or something. And then there's this happy after his class got cancelled here for like a week or something, and they said will be back.

04:23 And then the day later, they said will be back by end of March or April or some like that, and then day after that. They said to just go home. And I was like, Oh, and by this point, I had already got home. I bought a really expensive flight ticket back home, and I had to drive back with my dad, which is a 14 hour drive from Texas. That was fun over how chaotic that night was, because I was in my intro to physics lab. It was one of the night lapse from 7 to 10 p.m. And just as we were about to go into class, we got the email and we all looked at each other and we all didn't know what to do. Because we were like this with me classes canceled. We weren't sure. And then our professor came in and said, no, we're doing the lab guys. Go in and start working and we were all like there's a virus.

05:23 Be worrying. And then I think an hour later he came back in and said, no, everyone needs to go. Well and I think that's whenever like we had the oh my gosh moment because I remember I had travelled up to New York back in January and I remember hearing about this coronavirus and my mom had actually told me to wear a mask on the plane and I kind of thought that was a little bit paranoid, but I figured old better safe than sorry. And I remember being the only person at the airport wearing a mask and all of my friend's jokes and told me that I was being too paranoid and that this was too much but now looking back I'm really grateful that I did because you know, that was just when things were getting started. But I remember like that night that we got the email, it was like they became real. And I remember going back to my dorm and just not knowing what to do.

06:23 And I walk down our hallway and I just asked people, are you going home? So yeah, I think that was exactly the feeling was just panic and everyone being so confused. And so I ended up like talking to my parents and I bought the 7 a.m. Ticket the next day and flu while I stuff as much as I could into the little suitcase I had. And then we didn't come back until I think he was six or seven months later. All of our stuff got public packed into exactly. And a lot of my stuff got damaged The Roosters. Yeah. Yeah. A lot of my, a lot of my stuff at school. Damage and luckily it wasn't anything super major, but but you know, it was

07:23 Really? Yeah, I know that the van do you want, but College truckers? It's the one that I use for freshman year that you think I caught on fire and people lost their stuff. So chaotic here. Also, remember, before we got the email. We got it right after spring break and like I do not travel and I already had come back and like several people already had the virus. Supposedly.

07:47 So now it's Gary. I was at Boston during spring break and we read an article like the day we're coming back about this guy who have flown from Nashville to Boston and had the virus over there, I guess we're all going to be sick and we spent those have severe. This was at the time. Kind of scary address and then they later. They're like go home and went well, I guess.

08:27 Hellboy.

08:32 Well, what a first went back after that first or second email. I thought I was going to come back in April. It was just going home tonight and scared. But like I'll be with my parents. I was like, okay, I'm just going home. And then the next day will the day that I arrived home was when they said we were not coming back. So my dad and I are like so we drove up and I actually got all of my stuff out cuz we had a car. So I guess I didn't have much remorse about like leaving behind belongings and all my friends were also going back home. So it's just a collective experience. I don't have felt any remorse about that. It was his fear of what the virus is going to be. Cuz we don't have any information at the time. I think I was also back when we only thought it was effective older people. So like college students were that scared about it including myself that change very quickly.

09:31 I think I would say that it didn't feel real. I mean, that's ultimately I think what the predominant feeling was whenever we got that email. I really thought that it would be kind of temporary because yes, I think that, you know, this has been something that was on my mind for a while because, you know, we had heard about it back in January and I was thinking, oh, well, you know this seems to be like, kind of scary but who knows what'll happen? And so, you know, like they're there are really smart people working on this. So I've been really think that it was going to be as disruptive as it ended up being and I think for that reason like it just didn't feel that momentous when we were leaving. I actually remember that night. Everyone is joking that. So it's week 2 of spring break and there were a lot of parties and people were just like

10:31 Excited to have some more time off. So it was honest. I kind of a celebratory mood in a while. So it wasn't as somber. I guess is like when my dramatize it to me, but I think that as I was flying back on that flight, I had this like, moments where I thought, oh, life is going to be very different from here on out. And as I got home and started just like learning more about the virus started. Again. I'm getting emails, hearing what was happening at other schools. I think that's whenever I realize like, oh, no, this is not going to be temporary. And I don't know with friends. Like I I mean, I think we're very lucky. We have stuff like FaceTime and that's how I stay connected with a lot of people. And to be fair, man. I think I looked like there were some relationships that fell apart because of the pandemic. But

11:28 You know, I yeah, I don't know. It is it just didn't feel like it was going to be that big of a deal until we were home. So I don't think while I was here. I had a moment to even say goodbye to some people. So hectic everyone's packing like Razr. I like going to Rooms like trying to explain what's going on. And yeah, and I will also say that one of the things that I think hit me kind of feeling saying, in like things were somewhat normal was. So I'm a part of a research program here at Vanderbilt called the Cyber Cyril, undergraduate research program, and they fund undergrads, doing research and it's this incredible community of people. That's that brings together students scientist from a lot of different disciplines including engineering Life Sciences, Earth Sciences. I mean pretty much any kind of science. You can do and we typically have this really expensive summer program. We're doing research, but we also have law

12:28 Community events and other things. And so during that covid summer. They really worked hard to keep up some kind of sense of normalcy by creating like this online working space where you couldn't have like a little Avatar and had your own like a little cubicle. And you couldn't quote on quote and knock on someone's keep calm and like video call them like on this app. And I think that and like, maintaining some kind of schedule was really really helpful because I still felt like I was doing something and I'm still talking to people kind of on a regular basis because that's just like what the program required. Because I think otherwise I would have struggled a lot because I think that going back home. Also I had lost touch with a lot of my, you know, high school friends, for example, so I felt very much so

13:28 I didn't let you know why I couldn't really see anyone back home. And also, two of my family members are and, you know, compromise and we're high risk. So I couldn't really go anywhere either to protect them. So that online space was actually a huge Lifesaver. Yeah, it was really really interesting. But, you know, but like I remember missing in person stuff so much and I don't know, I don't know, but I feel like now my attitudes have changed. I'm curious. If that might be the same for you because like, knowing do missing person things, but I feel. So like used to the online meetings in the zoom classes and everything that it feels really like going back to in person and I have just gotten lazy r. I just sit in bed and you can put on your laptop and nobody would know.

14:28 Now you have to like actually get dressed and go to the room and meet people and I don't know it's it's a lot and we don't feel like every day before the end of it. It's like I think it's become such a habit to look, distance yourself from people. I even grocery stores. I've noticed that like people standing like further apart and I'm like, I just thought of like right before we got that email was like what we were doing. If you remember Illinois, Ave. Is there a lunar year festival and I participated in it with like a Korean traditional dance and just feels like rehearsals are packed into a room for like changing and like they're like literally stuck next to each other cuz that's part of the dance. Like we had to like form lines and

15:13 Thinking back and look how that that's that's a lot of people at work. And I don't know. I don't know if it's going to happen this year. Like, how are they going to?

15:25 Are they just going to risk being in close proximity and it's like breathing in the same room without insulation? Or I don't know. We never have to think about these things before. Everything would just say yes, and I feel like you know, also there's so much now uncertainty about what actually is effective because you know, I think I mean obviously at the height of the pandemic, I mean mask-wearing and social distancing was effective and that was you know, before the vaccine. But now we have a lot of people who are vaccinated and I kind of feel like a lot of the precautions that were just kind of like for our own sanity Mordecai performative rather than actually being super safe because you don't like wearing a mask that you warn for a week. Whenever you're stuck, like, right next to someone is not the safest thing, but I still feel like everyone's trying to walk this weird line of

16:25 Trying to be safe, but also not wanting to go all out with the safety precautions. Like, we want a sense of normalcy, but we're just slightly scared. Yeah, I loved ones. I don't know. Yeah, you're right. It's like a weird line between like I do nothing like each person. Decides on a moment to spaces like a scientific way to go about it. But yeah, I don't know. I feel like at this point.

16:58 I feel like I've almost given up natural selection, all this is like if I get it, I guess I'll just deal with the consequences. I have. Basically done everything I could have up to this point. I feel like if it's late.

17:12 Earth is doing its thing. Yeah, it's really nice. I guess like to another topic is, you know, just how other people reacted to the virus media and like our own communities cuz I think that's a really interesting thing to may be compared because it is. So I went back home. I'm originally from Tulsa, Oklahoma to Moore civically. I live in a suburb called Broken Arrow and I remember going back and

17:46 It was like nothing had changed and the state government was like not bringing up mask mandates, like my local government had struck down. I'm asked, Mandy. I believe it was six or seven times why I have to double-check the actual facts on that but many times and it was the basis for that was like, Liberty. I mean, it was all of the kind of Fox News like, you know, Ranch that you here. I mean, I mean, Oklahoma was completely red 2020 election and he's not a single blue County. We are one of the, I think to States like that. So, I mean, we are very conservative as a state and it was really sad, I think to see how many people

18:40 Just went along with this like public narrative that if you're conservative, you have to reject science. And like if you are conservative and support President Trump, then you can't wear a mask and you shouldn't get the vaccine, like all of these weird alignments that I'd like, we're just not based in fact and you don't, I also know. However, I want to see, you know, emphasize that conservatives are not a monolith, like you. No. Liberals are also not a monolith. And I knew like some conservatives that word nurses and like, we're actually advocating for vaccines and things like that. And we're talkin about their experiences in the ICU. So I don't want to paint. Everyone is like, you know negative but it was so incredibly frustrating to see like, on an Institutional level. How are State leaders?

19:36 We're just completely. I mean, it, it all became politicize ignoring all basic science. I mean, like this demonization of science was something that just absolutely broke my heart. Like, I mean, I like I'm had mentioned, you know, I am interested in pursuing a career in a meteorology and the pandemic kind of solidified that for me, but just seeing people completely like, distrust scientific institutions, and not listening to people who spend their lives in the stuff, you know, was so frustrated. And I do a lot of people even coming up to me, just asking me like, hey, what is this, or can you explain this to me? And whenever I would like, they either, wouldn't believe me or say would just be like, oh, okay. Well, whatever, you know, and, just not really take it in and that was one of the most, like, frustrating things on the national level 2.

20:36 Show me not to steal all that even started. I feel like 50 years ago and people have been so glad to have this technology, like, people are dying of

20:46 Preventable illnesses, that things that we do vaccinated for today and like from birth and like, we're okay. And we live long lives and now, people are Lego x-wings don't work, kisses, autism. It gives us whatever he gives us, and I'm like, if only we could time travel, maybe you would say otherwise. And that Lancet article has been retracted. And if anyone were to actually read that article, it is, it is a fault experimental design and it's not properly, statistically analyzed. So have 15 people. Yeah, something like that. And it's yeah, it correlation cuz it anyway, yeah, that's a whole nother conversation. But please. Sorry, I didn't mean to cut you off. I forgot man. Says, maybe in like a grateful, people would have been like $50 and I feel like both of us were planning to go someone into the medical field in the future Immunology medicine.

21:46 Health care, I guess. People saving biomedical perspective.

21:57 It's just, I don't know. It's like

22:00 I don't know what the future holds for us. I guess this pattern going to continue in orison and we're going to have to convince people that DNA is a thing or something. Like we have cells in our body like the we have to, like, convince people of that or they going to get better at like, maybe after this pandemic, people will finally be like a public health officials actually, you know, are credible or want the best for us here. I don't know. I don't know what's going to look like. And either way, I feel is going to be

22:30 A lot for what are job in. And I mean, I like, I do want to emphasize that. I think this is also an important point for science to also do a little bit of self-reflection. And remember that communication and Outreach is really important because I definitely do understand that, you know, certain communities are alienated by science and buy a medicine, right? Like me and we just have to look at like the really scary Eugenics movements in America, like back in the 50s and 60s, or is it just completely get erased from history, but, you know, those communities remember, right? And so, I don't want to

23:15 Forget that there is like actual legitimate reason for people to not trust science and I do want to acknowledge that and I think that this does have to be a really important moment for science to look at itself in medicine, and to re-evaluate how it interacts with the people is supposed to be helping because I mean again, like, even if we were to look at the covid statistics, right? Like more people of color, we're dying of the virus. Low-income people were dying of the virus than others. So I do think it's time that we start really addressing this and I don't know if we will, I think of our conversations at the beginning of the pandemic about it, but I really don't know if there's actually going to be any significant change that comes about, but outside of that legitimate grievance with, I think medicine.

24:07 Hi, I'm really concerned with the rise of like exactly like you said of conspiracy theories. And this idea that like no one is to be trusted. You know, I feel like that's kind of the fundamental issue is just the lack of trust between people and institutions that arrived. Like it happened so fast, I feel like 12 years. I think to be fair here. Here's my theory. At least. I think that this kind of distrust has been around forever. I do. I think the people have always had a very tenuous, like, relationship, with governments. I mean, I can say that you don't like so many of my parents are from Eastern Europe, like they grow up in Bulgarian. So under, you know, communism and so, I grew up with a healthy dose of skepticism. Rightly don't believe everything that you hear. It might be able to think for yourself.

25:07 That's just how they survived, you know, like that redeem. So I think that there is like a healthy dose of skepticism. Right? Like don't be, you know, jingoistic in like super nationalists and whatever. But I also, you know, I think that like the rise of social media has given people the outlet to basically spew, any kind of like crazy, thought they have and, you know, projected to millions of people. I mean it and I think that's like the really scary. But really sample of how, you know, someone was probably honestly like joking, I mean, there's an author says like new documentary, they just came out that like pretty much. I think like 10 points who started queue it on like the guy doesn't admit it, but it's like pretty clear that he's probably the

26:08 And it's this weird like mix of generational, cynicism. I think with like gen Z people that, you know, everything's like a joke and everything is, you know, like like a dark humor is like a big thing these days except as a joke. Exactly. And you can project these like, quote on quote jokes to billions of people like brick about threats to democracy and things like that. And I feel like people politicians specific politicians have noticed a pattern of how you sleepy. We're going to jump into these random articles and they just start exaggerating their opinions opinions. If you like it, I think, like, I can totally see both sides. So, whatever parties. Like they all have legitimate arguments at the core. It's just certain politicians are willing to like blow that up, make it a viral post and pee.

27:08 People are willing to follow back like some people take it as like he's exaggerating like this is what politicians do, but I feel like a vast majority of Americans don't recognize that and they think that's what the politician believes and they agree with that sentiment.

27:27 And it just becomes a movement and a whole philosophy that I think has led to the State of Affairs today. Yeah. It's like the rise of American extremism. It's just everything is amplify till I can 11. I mean, it's just very everything is an extreme. Yeah, for sure. I don't know. It's I think it's this. What, that's like one of those things that I've just noticed that's like, really scary. And honestly, I like I've tried my best to engage with politics. But like I remember the 2020 election when we came back and it was so sure. I remember everyone being so stressed and so like, emotional all the time and I think you know, that was voter turnout something crazy times and it was just really, it was so draining and I remember just like that hole.

28:26 Time, I mean, I don't agree with President. Trump's Paula are former president trumps politics. I really did not agree with them.

28:39 And I think that there was a lot of harm done to our institutions through that presidency. And I don't know if I don't know how we'll work. However, I think that I think it's like very cynical to say that you know, nothing will be the same. And I think that, you know, all governments go through like up that look all politics and government to go through periods of extremism and then, you know, it's kind of like a pendulum swings the other side and you kind of go back and find a happy medium. I don't think so. You know, it's irreparable damage necessarily that's kind of the beauty of there is some permanent impact that is done with leaderships and like, it can be done for good or bad and

29:25 I don't know. I am just content to knowing that we will be in US history textbooks at one point. Maybe they'll find this recorder is to kidnap to. There was a January 6th Insurrection, like not like all of these crazy things that are going to be immortalized in history. Like pretty consistently in 2020 and there was something major happening every single month. Like January was my personal issues. My career was the Boston trip and the Lunar New Year Festival. I was like pretty big to me and March was when the pandemic really hit like Sandy and us

30:26 April, what happened in April?

30:30 I remember at least like in Juno was a black lives matter movement, which was a huge anime to what happened. But something National thing. I do every every month or something. Life is falling apart. A lot of people but then,

30:53 Oh my God, is this George Floyd and our social sphere is falling apart to? And then I mean, I think it was always falling apart of put a spotlight on it. What else happened?

31:09 I don't even going back to school as a whole mess. Like, do you remember, we have to do weekly testing and it became like a biweekly testing bi-weekly as in two times every week, instead of every two weeks. Oh my God.

31:24 Yeah, I mean so paranoid. No, I mean I agree that summer and maybe we could talk a little bit just about like what that summer was like because you know, I agree. I mean it was it was so strange because like having to juggle like college life and you know, taking like I mean, I had a pretty heavy course load. I mean it was it was an intense, a few courses and trying to juggle that with all. So just like I remember how how much I just felt I guess that summer. I just had so many emotions. Like I just remember feeling so, like tired and lonely and just sad. I don't know because everything just felt so

32:08 I don't know how else to put it like the world just felt wrong Walkers and the entire us freezes and ever is fleeing to Texas and people are burning books at the library to stay warm. And like, I don't know if it's an apocalyptic.

32:32 This might be happening and it when it snowed that like for like a week, I feel like

32:44 I don't know. Do you remember one? Everyone bought toilet paper. Oh my God. It's almost yearly in Texas. So whenever the news anchor that go, there might be a hurricane ever. Just rushes out to H-E-B what you were texting, grocery store and just stock up on Big Beaver.

33:12 Sloppily have never seen like Costco put up signs be like you can only buy one. Toilet paper roll pack is Ben Co like they have a whole. We're only buy one hand. Sanitizer. People are obsessed with his pocalypse. Very strange. Yeah. I actually ate that breaks up a really funny memory. I remember it like, so again, I mean, we had to be no compromise people in my house. And so, we were being so incredibly careful and I remember it like, most of my conversations with my mom turned into, like, what mask do we buy? Like, what kind of mess we had, like, friends from Vietnam sending us k98 like a 95 masks. Yeah, and you know, like where I mean cuz obviously, we couldn't get like respirators. What we were like, where do we get the best mask? What kind of masks are the best? What's the size of the virus?

34:12 Particles in what masks filter goes out. And, you know, that it actually, ultimately kind of culminated in a, in a project that I worked on where we were, like, trying to create a smart mask with our research program. Yeah. It was, it was really cool and I was, I spent like days researching mask efficacy and studies. And I remember like the Duke study that showed, like the different kinds of mass, and there was a uchicago study before that, that was like, explaining like, what kind of fibers are like, best whatever. Until I remember it, like, all of our conversations Freddy got masks and then also where to get Clorox from when I have such a distant memory, like going to. So we actually went back to the Walmart that we used to go to, when I was a kid, which I had not been to in years, because we were like, where can we get Clorox? And we all remember going in, and it would be like, you know, only one roll of Clorox. And so it like my mom will get one. Then I will get one.

35:12 My dad would get one. Yeah, and because I know like we have this talk of Clorox, wipes back home and I don't know if ever, you know, like what is Clorox again? Yeah, and I mean like we will use them quite a bit like we still use them because we were sanitizing everything. We brought in house just to be extra careful. But, you know, it really was like really felt like the Apocalypse in a way. No, go ahead. Go ahead. Remember people who brand distilleries are making their own hand sanitizer. And there was like, Trace methanol in there. And people are going to lie. And yeah, that was scary. And I like giving up masks and like, sanitizing stuff became a symbol of Love Actually gifts, like, bugs are like fluffy socks. Peep.

36:12 Give masks. Yeah, yeah. I remember when I was finally going back to school last September. My boyfriend's mom was like to do the Korean snacks, but no the box of math Korean masked Superior somehow.

36:48 Thank you. But now it's actually pretty useful. I remember my grandma was making, like, the cloth masks when they were such a mess to sort is, and my mom's friend. She used to be a housewife. Now. She runs the whole business on Etsy and she makes six figures off of mask. Like she used to be a seamstress, and she sold a bunch of them and they're really really cheap too cuz she likes started off as like a very charitable thing. I just wanted to help people have masks and she apparently met six figures off of. Wow. Oh my gosh. Yeah. Well, I don't know. I mean, I guess as we're kind of starting to dino wrap wrap up. Where do we, where do we? What do you think? We we do from here on out? Like, where do we go from here? Because I don't know if I haven't necessarily an answer.

37:45 Me neither. I think we just live life, enjoy it. Well, that I think that's the one thing that really stood out to me. Like, life is fragile the line between life and that is so fragile that you could be fine. 1 day contract, this fires and not be fine the next 18 hours. And yes, that also means that we have to take all the precautions, which I feel like we are, like getting all the vaccines following, protocols, distancing masking and sanitizing. That one point. Like, if we live in fear and, and he said, cautionary measures all the time by the time we're on our deathbeds. Like, what will we be thinking? I feel like if I kept up this lifestyle, maybe I'll I'll kind of regret it. Like maybe if I had, you know, with friends more or experience Nashville for what it is cuz yeah, I have not done that.

38:41 Be careful, but also just live our lives and I feel like being respectful towards everyone like no need to spit on people cuz they won't wear masks and also no need to spit on people cuz they are wearing masks. You know. Yeah, I don't know. I just do the best we can. Yeah, whatever. That means to whoever lives just don't endanger other like yeah. Yeah. I don't know why. I think that there I think that the the pandemic really exposed a lot of sad things about not only America, but about the world as a whole. I mean again, like my my grandma would always tell me stories of what was happening and Bulgaria and, you know, things are worse there. And so I think, first and foremost, it's important for us to remember is that we are very lucky to be in a country where we have an excess of vaccines where we have access to,

39:41 Like top medicines like medical professionals top Public, Health officials, and dr. Fauci is like our, you know, honestly. And so I think remembering that and with all the problems that we had, which I'm not trying to downplay, but I think in general, like we are still very lucky compared to people who just don't have access to any of, this surgery in another countries were, like, people are actually struggling to just like survive and like, entire societies have been offended, you know, so I think my biggest takeaways I think from the pandemic, as a whole is just like gratitude for you. No one what we have gratitude for people in gratitude for like our friends and family and for our health,

40:34 And just, you know, for for everything that we have and for the wipes, but we have and I think in terms of Lessons Learned, I don't know if we're necessarily going to learn the lessons that we were supposed to do from this. If I'm being totally honest, I think, that's valid. I think I have been very few cases in history where we have actually. Hopefully it was a wake-up call to on a global scale. Like I think it's good to be grateful for what we have but at there was also good wake-up call to like the healthcare industry, like other countries have responded much quicker and more efficiently. And I feel like that's something that you asked and model of self off of. So, hopefully it was

41:19 Over there song changes on the way. Yeah. Yeah, and hopefully, you know here, like at Vanderbilt. You know what? I was really, I think surprised by how well they responded in general. I was really like pleasantly surprised by how people were staying healthy, and all the public health things that they put in place. And I mean, honestly, they supported students as best as they could. I mean, we were handed a really difficult situation and I think that, yeah, I mean, I was hesitant to come back when the road is shut down or anything. I thought we would. Oh, yeah, first week of school. I was terrified to go back. I was so scared coming back. I'd like remember crying at home like being so scared that I was going to get the virus and come home and get my family sick or something. But yeah, I don't know. I am really proud of how Vandy responded and now

42:18 I don't really know how where we go from here. I think life is going to be fundamentally different for. I think the rest of our lives. I mean, for everyone who remembers the pandemic, I think life is going to be different and I don't know, strange, how quickly will shake some of these things off of towels and things like that, you know, in like 2 years. So, maybe this is, Richard Scarry go, but I don't know. Hopefully, we'll just have more compassion as a result of everything. That's my ultimate help. I think thank you for taking the time to talk to me. Yeah. Thanks for talking. This was like a really insightful conversation. Thank you, Claire. Thank you.