Mabel Pappas and Mary Pappas

00:06 My name is Mary Pappas and I am 52 years old and is May 23rd 2010. We're in Green Bay, Wisconsin, and I'm here with my mother Mabel Pappas.

00:19 And I'm able pets Mary's mother age 87.

00:26 Dick Tracy 523

00:31 2 or 10

00:33 Location Green Bay

00:36 Relationship of partner daughter

00:41 Don't mom, you've been back and forth between Green Bay and various little towns up north Papa River and Argonne and so on and your family move back and forth a bunch of times, I think right and it sounds like so if I remember there's some chips in there that were pretty memorable when you were growing up.

01:01 Well, there was one day my two brothers and myself were sitting in the living room and Dad came in and said okay get your suitcases ready where we opened.

01:15 We're living in Green Bay at that time and so nice as what we just moved.

01:23 And then Dad says no, we're going to move again. He's Uncle Archie just called and there's a job up there that I've been trying to get to stucco this house.

01:36 So we packed everything up and in the truck.

01:41 It could have been any more stuff in it and my packed a lunch and took some food and we started out.

01:51 Happy as we went out a noodle out of town.

01:56 It was all right, but this truck was going kind of slow and master will never get up there never get up there. So we drove and drove we got as far as Oconto Falls.

02:14 In

02:16 Dad took the truck up the hill and start backing down in my cooker Essex at that type and pushed him off the top of the hill.

02:29 You got down on the other side?

02:32 And a tire blew out the truck.

02:37 So dad was down to his last dollar.

02:40 And he went to this feeling station events that I can't do nothing. I don't have any credit here.

02:49 And so is it that the guy says well, I'll give you a tire if you give you that sick. You got on you and he had a type a toothpick go to stick.

03:03 It was very rare at that time. So Dad said I'll give you the toothpicks if you give us a place to sleep. So we can Mom and I slept in the in the deep water out of beds and two boys slept in the car with her father.

03:21 And we finally got up to duel.

03:25 And that the next day when we got there they had the Log Cabin rented for us there was cables and everything in it.

03:38 And of course my was real particular.

03:43 And she thought none of these kids to go to bed without their baby bed bugs in their bed. So

03:53 Dad went outside and got a can of kerosene.

03:58 And then she rub kerosene on all the seams of the mattress before she put the sheets on then we could go to bed.

04:08 And then from there we talked to the cellphone Archie.

04:15 And he told Dad what he wanted to do the next day.

04:19 So dad went to retire cheap to this place that you was going to work.

04:26 Isis just let's go downtown with walk the tracks and we walked into Newell. She was at our is all about.

04:36 So we're walking down the tracks.

04:39 And is a porcupines ahead of us.

04:43 And George R Us.

04:46 Ted and Allie wedding done with a stick and tried to hit the porky pie at they're going to kill it. How are you?

05:00 So they finally stopped and then we went back to the to the cottage.

05:08 And then about three days later. Dad come home and says

05:14 We're going to move again.

05:16 And he woke moved us to Papa River.

05:20 And there he started to build the tavern.

05:25 And it got quite at orgill.

05:30 So frisky had to build a 10 for us. You put a hardwood floor there built it up.

05:40 And then a storm came.

05:45 And we were they had gone back to dool to pick up some more stuff.

05:51 And when they kids

05:53 That's Dorian. We stayed for three days.

05:58 Alone with my two brothers and myself. I think I was about.

06:02 Eight, nine years old at the time. What year was that?

06:08 Howdy donuts for years how many years have passed?

06:22 And I had plenty of what cuz Dad has had us cutting wood for a while.

06:32 And we have plenty of work. So we stayed in this tablet.

06:38 And I just had rather.

06:41 And the storm kept getting worse and worse and worse and I thought what am I going to do? I was just a kid by self.

06:51 So there's we had a guinea, hen.

06:58 Are you the oldest Mabel?

07:03 And that was the only one up there at that time you otherwise I had four other ones.

07:12 Order they were in Green Bay at this time.

07:17 With my older brother was it was a little kids that one back up north on US1.

07:26 Anna

07:29 So you were wondering if you had enough wood to make it through or you wouldn't.

07:40 If you get hit.

07:50 They had would dad had put words on the side of the tent and the wooden floor never is a little stole that there.

07:59 And my always had potatoes and sour and and at that age I could make do with forward cheetahs.

08:09 And I'd cook something and then we had a little guinea. Hen outside.

08:16 What we didn't know what to do if you want that died, so I brought it in and reset it at the head of the bed.

08:25 Headed to stay there at a stated Mom and Dad three days to get home and meantime, they worried lot.

08:36 And after that they got braver braver than School more often to dual to pick up groceries event.

08:44 So it was a 3-day snowstorm. There was snow all over.

08:52 You couldn't get lost. They had a shovel their way into the tent.

08:58 I'm not yours quite a job.

09:01 But the Woodhill dog

09:04 And we had lot of boiled potatoes. What did you do to entertain yourself during those 3 days with the wind howling outside cards always fun.

09:20 Kodali hated to lose

09:24 We made a game of it.

09:28 He was from there. We will start building a Tavern and dance off.

09:36 Sure that took kind of scared when you were there with it with your two younger brothers. And no I wasn't because I had went through other snowstorms, but I got home. All right.

09:51 And the boys were little scared the first day after the first day they were Brave.

09:59 Aetna

10:01 Dad always had a way of crazy gets all up, you know, and so everything was all right. What were they doing went for the three days, where were they snowed in?

10:11 They were in another bar. They were at a bar. There was a dancer.

10:21 Your dad like to dance and that's why they forgot the time.

10:26 They didn't look outside to see if smoke snowing.

10:31 And I showed quite a while.

10:34 And just kept drifting in your face.

10:40 And from there, we finally moved into the house for the house on first living quarters on the tavern first.

10:52 So we had a place to stay then we were so dancehall was the tavern that was on top of river right path of river. Was that kind of like the Social Hub of the whole area? Well, yes.

11:08 There was a Tavern and dance hall and there was one other Tavern it was run by two brothers.

11:18 That's all it was in the town and the school.

11:22 What was the name? What was the name of the tavern tap step is still up there now, isn't it? Yes, it is. One of the Red Cross drivers was up there two weeks ago and he said that there's a young couple.

11:38 That made it into a restaurant but they're only open Thursday till Sunday. So the building your dad made us still up there working as a restaurant one of these days. I want to go see it myself when my sister was here from Alaska.

11:57 She took me up there in that Rose was 10-15 years ago.

12:03 It is still the same.

12:05 Still the same we used to have a lot of fun there.

12:10 Let me start serving drinks there my younger brother.

12:20 Would they be hiding her by her lyrics we had a white and Satan a barrel of white?

12:26 And I wish you happy.

12:30 And he was the holiest lay down his back drinking wine.

12:37 And he was pretty key up when I was reacting must have been less than 10 years older.

12:48 And then not too long after that, babe.

12:52 Brother came from Green Bay.

12:55 And he says why don't you try to tell me some drinks?

13:03 And Isis, okay.

13:06 He's covered the manual for the book called the first that I remember and drink it.

13:20 And I are making a cherry pie at the tire for the Box social that think

13:25 And he came in with another drink. This one is this one?

13:34 Yeah, quite a while to me.

13:38 Good night. Put a pie out of the oven there. Probably wouldn't went out.

13:45 And

13:52 Yeah, but mine.

13:55 But I had better not be able to sleep it but the guy was saved because the good Lord bird.

14:04 So Dad mom come home. They said you're going to the Box social you better wake up.

14:11 In my a drunk for you and your kind of drunk or you and then went to the boxes dance that you could break you go to fax. So I went took my cherry pie to the Box socials and it went for to $75.75 because everybody else what cheaper

14:39 So what happened? What happened when the wind win somebody's been on a pie for and said for 275 what happened after that? You got a sent me with him. Okay, so people would make pies and then the other people would come in and buy them and then you would eat with a person one of the boys from the CC Camp bus.

15:02 Is there a cc camps up up in the area of DC Cabs a bit, Lakewood?

15:08 My brother George was in it.

15:13 For about a year-and-a-half

15:16 And then certain nights of the week all the boys would come and dance.

15:22 When they get through at night

15:25 That was a long week that so that if you can pick 5 miles to walk in right they made a nice deal of dress President Roosevelt get a wonderful job.

15:46 The Civilian Conservation Corps. So the CCC camps were c.c.c camps as a Civilian Conservation Corps during the Depression to put people back to work.

15:59 Hello, responsible for planting love the Trees of a part of that was.

16:06 President Roosevelt came to Green Bay at that time.

16:12 And my husband was older that I was he had a restaurant.

16:17 And he serve President Roosevelt a strawberry sundae.

16:22 And all she was so happy. He was so happy to think he could serve the president and then he give him a check.

16:32 For this polio deal. That's what they I travel to do 04 RAV4.

16:40 So

16:42 For years and years Steve Patrol that check to everybody the canceled check from gas open in Rhode Island. He ended President Roosevelt.

16:55 But somewhere along the line.

16:58 I can't fight it.

17:01 You you had as a young child. You were in a Tavern. Your dad your family had a Tavern in you were growing up in that kind of a setting. Right? Right, and then you came to Green Bay again and spend an awful lot of your life in a restaurant. And then now I have a business. That's the food place.

17:26 But I did what I did watch tool for this cuz it was a hard life. We were open 24 hours a day notice was your the restaurant be all through the alpha restaurant hours a day and you're the war 9042 of that.

17:48 The draftees of come from Newland Long Lake and they have a ticket that they you have free real.

17:59 They'd pay for it to do I add to keep track of all those tickets. They racial never think.

18:07 Had I got to be pretty hectic.

18:11 What time do we have to 18?

18:16 Officers Cabana

18:19 And one of the guys to beat Market

18:23 Was good enough to give us 82 Stakes for these guys. That was a big deal because they were rationing the rash.

18:35 The order of the meat market says

18:39 Well, they deserve it.

18:42 They deserve a piece of sub I get in trouble.

18:46 The area of Singapore

18:50 And then there was eight young kids kavian and me.

18:57 Sat down and ate mirror confused. They hadn't had any school year today.

19:04 And I I talk nice to them and I told him you know how they could get food and stuff in it. It was nice traveling by bus to where they were going.

19:15 And when they came back after the war

19:21 There was one mistake one of the boys I get killed.

19:26 But

19:28 They come and thank me for giving good advice.

19:32 But there is such nice kids.

19:35 You you've told me the story of of how you came to Green Bay and and and happened happened on the alpha restaurant on your way to taking your brother's to a movie and ended up getting a job there as a waitress and years later you married you married Steve. My my dad and doesn't sound like you ever really had like a dating relationship with him. Did you work together came to bring me to stand up for my brother's wedding?

20:12 And I was getting bored with the papa River. Everything is so quiet and everything.

20:19 So I stood up for the wedding stayed over then I did work for a house for a

20:29 Broward County motors house where first

20:34 And then from there I lost my job because I told her I would work that day.

20:42 And then I just said to my brother's I'll take you to the Packer theater where they got a few the freak up tonight.

20:52 So he's got on the bus and went down.

20:56 Town and all of a sudden I see this side waitress wanted.

21:03 I was 50 dance of time.

21:06 And Isis the boys Isis, let's go in there. I want to try for a job.

21:11 And my one brother said oh, oh me.

21:15 You're lonely 15 years old. So I goes in there. I can still remember a plaid skirt. And when those big Shirley Temple hats with the river down the back.

21:32 And Steve asked me how old I was Isis 18.

21:36 And I said, I just lost my job. I says because a lady by nephew died.

21:44 And then my dad said I had to stay home and take care of her house.

21:49 The girl the daughter said, okay.

21:54 So a couple minutes later the daughter come back and said

21:59 My said you're going to lose your job if you don't come in, so I lost my job. She never paid me for the half week I or either.

22:09 Steve says, woohoo. Who did you work for status?

22:17 Who I could Jim status? Yo, the Brown County motors.

22:22 And she said

22:25 Oh, he said to be wait just a minute. I got to make a phone call. So goes in the kitchen and he makes a phone call to this gym.

22:35 And he says

22:39 Jim

22:41 I got somebody here lots of job. You're nor Genesis. Who is it?

22:48 And Steve says Mabel something.

22:52 Well, Jim said well if you're a damn fool if you don't hire her.

22:58 Because the best woman who ever had at our house

23:04 So I got the job and I had never eaten in a food place before like that.

23:12 And I didn't have much skooly. I didn't know how to write spell. Are you two like that? So you have pad and pencil?

23:24 Answers you can take that order over there and there's two fellas.

23:29 So I watch where they put their fingers I thought about how am I going to write that?

23:35 When are your pork loin one ordered beef?

23:40 And I watch where they put their fingers and I when we had a big manual.

23:49 And so I looked at that and I turned around.

23:55 And I go back to the color.

23:57 I put the order in the kitchen. So back to the counter write it down.

24:03 And the first thing I wrote down his liner Park.

24:07 But I had to remember arrhythmias and had a member of their face.

24:14 And then I had to remember what they ordered.

24:17 It got to be quite a grab.

24:21 Aetna I did that for years I buy could never remember the people's names.

24:28 So you worked at the restaurant for a lot of years and there were some pretty busy years. It sounds like and and then you and dad got married and I was just 25 years for 25 years older than you.

24:44 Never ever bother you to be marrying somebody so much older. No, I didn't realize he was a told I never asked a message or anything.

24:56 It was just one of those things.

24:58 My mother and Jenna status kind of pushed us together.

25:05 Did the age difference ever become anything significant for you?

25:12 Just when I got pregnant for you.

25:15 He told me all that. So the boys were for teaching 13. Jordan said my brothers and their brothers and Steve has 10 years off my life, but the age never bothered us.

25:35 I was never answer that all day only when that one movie star who got married beans cost me that married a young girl.

25:50 There's been lots of Mount even know and that's what that's what people would say it since that terrible. He married such a young person. How did they propose Steel?

26:05 I don't think I remember I don't think you did.

26:09 Well, I mean, well it something must have been said well at 8.

26:15 I had been to the doctor that they had I had a blood test.

26:20 I don't know.

26:22 And it's not my engine started planning the whole thing.

26:27 So some of the Rays mirrage almost done it was it was an arrangement.

26:32 Yeah, it was Arrangement. All right, and it snowed that time to on your wedding day February 17th, right in the evening. We got married in a priest's house.

26:46 I ended up by going back to work.

26:50 Set the whole night working.

26:53 It's all the girls are celebrating.

26:58 And they went to the house and pinned all the sheets down.

27:03 And they are the ones who had it takes to call and pins down.

27:09 Life just wait on you just kept plugging along. You've been a little longer than you were married. Never think of that. Desmond has been dead for a while. We're 30 years, right? And you were married what 27 years?

27:31 I need eight.

27:35 And you never wanted to get married anybody else. Did you know I've never even occurred to you.

27:41 Nobody would be perfect at all.

27:44 Cuz she was a good man.

27:47 Everybody's off the World album

27:51 That's a long time to be on your own though.

27:56 Well, yeah it was.

27:59 But I had my children.

28:03 It has always been amazing to me and how and those number of years almost every day one of us mentions him somehow.

28:13 Yeah, but we've always mentioned that your dad would do this or what would dad do or that reminds us of him almost everyday. It seems like in all those years.

28:23 How that ever happened? Yeah, they spent lots of time just like Ted does doll head stops every day to see me a diet. We almost every day. We we talked about him or think about him, don't you think?

28:43 Yeah, he was quite a man.

28:49 How many Hammond George Lynch agrees afterwards?

28:55 Did did it ever did you ever experience any kind of prejudices or anything like that? Because he was Greek. No.

29:06 My brother get by older, brother.

29:09 He says I watched you gauge 10 years and six months since you got married he's slow down. But I remember you saying sometimes that that that people treated him different because it was Greek. What kind of that there were things that came off that well people was why did you very angry?

29:32 Are you buried him for his money or something like that?

29:37 But I helped to make the money to us that you were always kind of business since first I said you were always the business sense person.

29:50 I did took over the books at everything.

29:54 So so when will Rick and I said we were going to open up a bakery.

29:58 After you had been out of the restaurant you to retire the restaurant was closed and in Rick and I said that we were going to open up a bakery.

30:07 You didn't really say too much about it, and I had to work too hard. You didn't want to start but it did, you know, I didn't.

30:16 For the simple reason I had a

30:19 A hard life

30:21 Because of the of the butt restaurant because of the rested, but I loved every minute of it.

30:28 And when they Taurus down

30:31 When they made the mall.

30:34 That was the hardest thing for both of us.

30:38 When they tore down the restaurant to make ribs in the oven.

30:44 That was the hardest cuz the first Thanksgiving we were close.

30:50 I remembered all the people there was 17 of them.

30:56 That had always ate at the restaurant. They had nobody.

31:02 And I remember taking plates of food to those 17 people. When was the Federal in the Packard Motel?

31:12 And they were so happy when I brought their lunch and it was it was heart was a hard life with lots of I am forced to it. So I appreciated every moment of it when everything turned out perfect. I was relieved.

31:32 Never had much left after a big picnic or anything like that.

31:40 So so how did things turn out with the bakery. Do you think Bakery turn out very good. Do you still think we should have opened it and no no.

31:52 I was glad to be able to help for a while.

31:57 Yeah, I think I'm nice. You did a lot of nice people.

32:04 And which means a lot

32:07 It's like a family affair. Now. It's going to be like a family affair.

32:13 And you're Woody taste so good at

32:18 And you get a lot of lunches, you know, I remember when when I would drive you to and from the bakery some days before, you know, anybody in the car and probably about three years after we open.

32:34 I remember you saying to me for the very first time your father would be proud of you. And then I commented on that and then you change the subject. That's the only the only time that I remember you saying something like that about about the bakery. Yeah, he's a happy.

32:53 Because he loves of the restroom so much.

33:02 In and out the bakery now, we we took the same name Alpha Delights European bakery cafe, and we took sad from the building off the restaurants named which was the alpha restaurant.

33:18 First dad had a candy store before that called Alpha sweets, so it's kind of a lot of history there because when you come to this country he was

33:31 Where can I find you that kid Academy store first? He learns the candy business.

33:38 And then after you knew had enough to learning he turned around and came through eBay.

33:47 And he had saved every penny and you open a little candy store.

33:54 Annie run that for

33:56 Until the depression treatment

34:00 And then he turned around and he had to give it up.

34:05 And he sort of give up everything. He had nothing left. Everybody wanted their money. So he wouldn't sign major see up.

34:18 He turned around and

34:20 Well after we were married we finish paying off $33,000.

34:27 Are not that works out there to do that was hard to do.

34:32 And then we went on a honeymoon after that.

34:37 After we were married 10 years went to Greece.

34:42 And that was afraid our present, but I was ready to have a breakdown because I had been working so hard.

34:58 But now that was the the first time that that he had gone back to Greece since he came here as a teenager right during World War 1 1919.

35:11 And he hadn't seen his mother for 30 years, but we went to reason.

35:17 Are are his the rest of his family?

35:21 And of course I couldn't talk Creek. Did he ever talk much about about how much he missed grease his family in Greece.

35:30 Yeah.

35:32 He turned real white his hair got real light a heat take a hundred aspirin bottle ask for a week. Cuz what do you write their? The letters are coming back? He did do it talk about during World War II. He didn't know if his father was living or not because the letters come back I'd opened.

35:59 And then

36:02 You found out about your later.

36:05 Took a whole year to find out that his father was

36:09 Well at that type of got debt he was killed.

36:13 You said he's I think it's more starvation.

36:18 Is it the Germans had better all over?

36:23 They took the door knobs and really destroyed the town.

36:29 But

36:32 Now they're all gone.

36:36 All the sisters and brothers

36:39 I remember seeing a picture and I wish I knew it was still that had I think it was when you were a picture taken of the family going to Greece 1950s trip, but with thicker taken of you and Dad and George and Ted and there was some little message that Dad had written on the back of it about how much he missed his home and I never received that I have never thought once I don't know where I saw it but a message about how much he had this this home. It was hard for him.

37:16 And then after he came his brother came.

37:20 Hooked

37:22 2 years later, I think.

37:27 Just like you were

37:30 Crazy crazy when you got at that building for them.

37:34 Bet you made your bakery out of you got to be able to eat deciding it.

37:43 And the first six months I didn't even go near it.

37:48 I thought I don't want to get mixed up in that but I did.

38:00 Everybody laughed at me know so do you have any questions for me mom?

38:06 Yeah, why did you decide to give up your job at public service?

38:12 Well, I decided that it felt like I had done everything I could do there and it felt like I was just doing the same thing over and over again without a whole lot of meeting and I think I remembered some of the pleasures that I saw you and Dad yet from the restaurant.

38:30 Do they sell how much hard work it was too, but it seemed like there was some special meaning there and I think my other job was as kind of not meaningful anymore for me.

38:43 So that was kind of it.

38:49 Oh, yeah, I think so. I tell us the people a lot that that is what is a little kid. I remember I certainly saw lots of things. I saw how hard you worked but I I remember the conversations were we talked about different customers and and there was a special connection to people and and and I think we're starting to feel that they're now, you know, we see people coming in the bakery and and we have 10 year old children, and I remember when they were coming in and they're pregnant for that child. You don't think I'm going to feel connected their lives. And so it's it's a very special thing. I think it could friends.

39:37 I get a lot of attention when I go there. I think you've been a very important part of the of the bakery. I think it's been good for the staff. He wants a bunch of people who are 20s in their twenties, and I think you've been a good role model for him. And I think the customers like seeing you there and like to know that your hands are still in the race.

40:05 And I think they like watching us to there's somebody tell me that they'd like to see us together.

40:11 The only thing ever gets me is

40:15 When they not moving fast enough. Yeah, I like people get service right away, but I want to get up and do it.

40:29 And I can't

40:32 But that's the part that bothers me the most.

40:38 Like the other day when I was there I wanted to get up a day off.

40:44 All works out

40:50 What's the part that you like the most of going to the to the bakery?

40:56 I Like beanie people. I like talking to him.

41:02 I like talking to him.

41:04 And

41:07 They come in and give me a kiss and I and the children always wave at me.

41:15 Bay Area

41:18 Enjoy myself at all the girl across the street.

41:24 Which is a hallway has this proved with the story of the puddle. She stayed for three hours. She came to your house. She came to your house so she came to my house and stayed for three hours.

41:46 Edna

41:48 We had lots of talk about and it was real bad her mother.

41:56 And I were living in the same neighborhood 1900 East 7th.

42:04 And you found out that you had all kinds of connections going way back. Yeah. She was there when I was working. I think it was kind of funny because one story leads to another for sure and I think that's one of the things that people like about about you said they can always find connections the stories and you've always got good ones until we got to make these days, don't you think?