Arlene Swartz and Kathrina Proscia

Recorded May 12, 2010 Archived May 12, 2010 41:02 minutes
0:00 / 0:00
Id: DDB000756


Arlene Swartz (61) talks to her friend and coworker Kathrina Proscia (50) about her childhood in the Bronx and Queens, her family and her career in philanthropy and fundraising.

Subject Log / Time Code

Arlene talks about growing up in the Bronx, moving to different parts in Queens and her current neighborhood - Washington Heights.
Arlene describes her earliest memory - eating cherries- and remembers her father and his sense of humor.
Arlene describes how she got involved in fundraising and philanthropy and the hardest part of it.
Arlene talks about her work as a teacher in Columbia University.
Arlene explains the importance of Board and its members for a nonprofit organization.
Arlene shares two funny stories of traveling with Dave Isay and giving presentations to mayor donors.
Arlene describes how she wants to be remembered.


  • Arlene Swartz
  • Kathrina Proscia

Recording Location


Venue / Recording Kit


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00:03 My name is Catrina. Proscia. I am 50 years old. It is May 12th ninth 2010. We are sitting in the basement of 80 Hanson Place in Brooklyn, New York, and I'm sitting here with Arlene Schwartz my coworker and friend.

00:21 But I'm Arlene Swartz. I'm 61. Today is May 12th, 2010. We are in the basement at 80 Hanson Place and I am here with my newest friend and co-worker, Katrina Prussia.

00:36 Thanks for doing this. Thank you. Okay, so let's start. Tell me Arlene. Where did you grow up? I grew up in the Bronx in New York in a really interesting neighborhood. We had a the building came to a corner.

00:55 Like one of those buildings got really skinny, and there was a carpenter shop on the corner and he was always planing wood. So there are always those curlicues. That's what I remember we moved when I was about 5, but I remember Tony's carpenter shop and walking and all the curlicues after that. We move to Queens to Flushing. And how long did you live in Flushing a very long time I lived in Flushing until I got married and then he lived in all over Queens Oliver Queen of Queens. We moved pretty quick when I was married. So I lived in Flushing and Whitestone.

01:38 And what is it called Liberty something-or-other Brady Avenue on Liberty Avenue on the corner. And when the first week that we live there all I heard was the A train constantly and within two or three weeks. I didn't hear it anymore. I got so used to it. And then we lived in Flushing again and Kew Gardens and it was the last place I lived in Queens. Wow. You can move to Isaac Zagg and now you live in Washington Heights in Manhattan. Do you like that neighbor? What do you like about it? And so every day at least twice a day coming and going I get to see the Hudson?

02:26 And I'm down a really big hill so you really get and I have a few of the George Washington Bridge from the corner and what's knee is that you get to see the river like every day and how it changes in the sky and it changes colors and thanks to mr. Rockefeller who bought up all the land on on the Jersey side. He's nothing but like Woods across the Hudson so you didn't know what you would think you were out of the city sounds really pretty and it's a really diverse neighborhood. It's got an interesting history of Russian Jews were the first people who live their lives there for many years and then neighborhood got very Dominican.

03:08 And for about the past 10 years, it's been a little bit gentrified but not to the point where some of the older folks have been, you know forced to leave. So.

03:21 I would say that in every city block where I live. There are probably people from 20 different countries easily while and it was really neat sounds lovely. Who is your best friend there. Any less friends are

03:36 All my friends there are related to dogs because it Ella to the only people I Met originally when I moved into the neighborhood where other people had dogs and Ella is Ella is my dog at the entire office so I can be kind of shy but when you have a really cute little dog who goes running up to people I've met a lot of people in the neighborhood. So I have great neighbors. I have about 3 or 4 neighbors right in my building and the dogs hang out and we hang out very nice friendly neighborhood. What's your favorite thing to do when you're hanging out usually involves wine? That's good wine and watching the dogs play in the neighborhood.

04:19 What's your earliest memory as a child growing up?

04:24 You know, it's hard to remember what you really remember versus the stories that you've been told.

04:32 Okay, this is going to be really embarrassing. I remember being told when I was about a year old that somebody was feeding me cherries and they said I was brilliant because I knew enough to eat the fruit and spit the pits out to this is like folklore in my family. What a bright child. I was cuz I didn't choke.

04:51 I think you're smart now. So I guess they were right if I settle down.

05:02 I had a really nice childhood. I'm an only so my parents and I were very sort of little little family and very close-knit.

05:13 I have a lot of friends. I like school and I love being in the Bronx. I remember playing volleyball and bike riding and my father had a very wicked sense of humor. So he was always playing practical jokes tell me about when will one of the things he did. I had a tricycle and he bought me a new bike and I was afraid to go on it. And so he put training wheels on the bike.

05:39 But he didn't put them like on the floor. I would like pho train.

05:45 And I went up on my but that's but eventually I learned to ride the two wheeler, but he was always doing things like that. And where where is your dad from?

05:57 My father was born in France French fun. Well, you know the Jews were kicking around Eastern Europe a lot in those days and I think that was the last country that my you know, my grandparents lived in before they came to the United States. So he was about 3 when he came here and how about your mom mother was born here. My mother actually was born at home and that the reason I found out about this was when she went to retire. She never birth certificate and what they had to do was go back to the census the year. She was born and somehow she was identified as like baby girl. So and so she was like 6 weeks old when the census happened.

06:41 Why and that was how they documented her age so that she could retire. What year was she born 1918 in the Bronx?

06:55 Do I remember that? I think they met at work. Where was that? They both worked in a a cleaning company in the Bronx. My mother was a bookkeeper and my father drove a truck.

07:06 And I think they were like 20 and 25 when they got married. How long were they married?

07:14 Over 60 years. So my goodness. Oh, that's wonderful.

07:20 It's kind of sad though, you know when when people marry and it's mostly like the generation before us when they get married very young and they stayed together for 60 years and then one parent dies, one of them. He mentioned picking up his joining a life after having dinner with someone your whole entire life.

07:39 Seems like a bad plan. Did your father have any siblings?

07:45 None that he kept in touch with a really so they were they were in France or did they come here? I don't I don't even I don't even know how to do an interview with him when I was in college and they were having none of it. So I have a slew of cousins and I'm the baby of that generation. Oh, that's nice. You keep in touch with them, but it's nice that family.

08:23 Does one family I'm between my first cousin and her son in a age of so, I'm very close with both of them, which is really nice. So, you know, my cousin Audrey is my up my older cousin and then I call Mark the baby and they're very close and they also very close with my parents. So it's really nice. Can you remember a funny story about you all being together?

08:47 No. We were funny stories. I just remember lots of barbecues with everybody in the backyard and lots of kids running around and that's when I asked you learned it working at the barbecue was a really good job, cuz she got to hang out by yourself and flip the chicken in the burgers and nobody bought.

09:06 It's funny. What do you do for a living?

09:11 I am director of development at storycorps. And when did you start this job full-time about two months ago, but I have been doing consulting here for a few months before that any event you would do in Consulting for years before him being here or director different organizations. Yeah. I've had a great work-life in that. I have always worked for organizations with missions that we really near and dear to my heart. So it always felt like my work was really important like it mattered if I did a good job.

09:47 So I'm very proud of that and the more I learn about storycorps the more I realized what an important organization it is. You know, it's it's very deep. It's not it's not clear from the initial glance about the depths and the the reach that it has in people's lives.

10:11 That's interesting.

10:13 Do you remember a story from another organization was that you were working at that was either like one of your best working moments that you can recall?

10:24 I guess it must have been the first time that I was part of a really big major gift ask.

10:32 And it was very exciting cuz I was working for an organization that hadn't really done it before and so I was working with one new board member who had a lot of experience and he was a major donor and we sort of colluded to start this program on our own and we went through our donor files and we found a really good candidate and we set up a meeting and of course it was early December and these these people were very interesting. They had this huge loss to the round down by Washington Square and very Tastefully done and they actually had this like old bottle of scotch on the table for us when we walked in and we wanted to make a very good impression. But of course we had to accept a drink when they offered it to us, so we went out of doing shots.

11:25 And I think that also listen to stuff a little because the board member actually made an Ask significantly bigger than what we had thought we were going to go in for and they said yes and they wrote the check right then and there was like four, I don't know 40 or $50,000 which it was pouring when we left and we couldn't get a cab and so this board member and I were standing under an awning of a restaurant like giggling AirHeads off because we've been so successful with all major donor working with major donor than getting big checks.

12:04 It was a lot of fun. So is that what brought you into the world of philanthropy and nonprofits? How did you make the decision that that's what you wanted to do? It was more non-decision than a proactive decision.

12:19 My graduate work is in Audiology and there were no jobs and I'll end up getting a job in advertising which was fun. But after awhile really vapid and a friend of mine helped me look at my skills and try and figure out how it would become transferable. And so I have been doing volunteer work with this organization and I redid my resume and went in and I actually volunteered to do some fundraising and they hired me kept going for like over 25 years. Oh my goodness. There's an accident. What did you want to be when you grow up very few of us will say a fundraiser.

13:00 So I think people should have fall into the field mostly by vino from loving a mission really getting connected to an organization that would

13:12 So what is your least favorite part of being involved in nonprofit in philanthropy?

13:21 There Is Never Enough resources no matter where you work

13:26 And that's always hard because when you're connected to the mission it really it sometimes can be very upsetting that there isn't enough money to do what you need to do. And the more important than mission is the more upsetting it could be, you know, I mean, if you if you have your housing homeless people with AIDS or feeding the hungry and you've got the potential to do more and more but not the money. It's it's really upsetting if you had all the money in the world and didn't have to worry that where it was coming from. What would you do? Oh my God in worker life, either I can start with work if you want.

14:08 I think that I probably take a solid year off and travel and get it completely out of my system and go around to every city and town I ever wanted to go to on every mode of transportation even a camel in Egypt.

14:32 Bronx are going to travel to have enough money to travel with friends and treat them all, you know to this wonderful trip and take a break and then come back and be really energized. I would love to be like a really big philanthropist myself. I wouldn't know how to do it.

14:58 You know giving the line of work I'm in I would know exactly had a veteran organization and know how to read an audit and know how to really evaluate their staff and their programs and what they're accomplished idea great major donor. Would you be anonymous?

15:19 I think that it's it's almost a responsibility of the donor to stand up and say I care about this organization and I'm willing to lend my name to it. We certainly not everybody but it's important that everybody else know who's involved and that all the individuals that give her proud to be part of that. So I wouldn't give anonymously that I want a building in my name. I'll let with her full name Ella Ella Fitzgerald Roosevelt. I wanted to give her a good role model.

16:04 I know that you're also an Adjunct professor at Columbia. How do you like doing that had you even get it started story. I've been wanting to teach and I had a friend who was teaching at Columbia. And so I sent them a letter and they were developing this new program in fundraising management and they hired me to develop a curriculum on the board of directors specifically because I had such Grassroots experience and they felt it was really important for the students who attended classes at Columbia to understand the full range of nonprofits and how the boards with different in the board of storycorps was not the board at the med is not the board at Columbia Presbyterian.

16:51 So that was actually interesting. You know that my sort of Scruffy background got me into Columbia and I liked it. I everybody is there because they really want to learn.

17:03 They're all smart. They're all overachievers. They have really good questions. They do their homework. They care about their graves and we have some really interesting discussions about 40% of the class grade is based on participation. So I frightened them into being active participants, you know, they know that their grade depends on it and it's also interesting to see how they relate to each other. I mean how they learn have the students learn from each other cuz there's always some students from Colombia or Barnard but there are also some corporate students who are interested in making the switch and some organizations from you know, people from organizations in the Arts and theater and you know from hospital to visit there's a really interesting mix and they're new in their careers. So they learn a lot from each other and it's nice to have a classroom like that, you know where you couldn't really promote that

17:59 What I don't like is the grading of papers.

18:02 And it really is awful when somebody's not doing well.

18:07 You know when you have to you have to really be hard on someone and give them a gray that they're not happy with it's hard the first time I had to do it it took me like a week is thinking about it, you know and really being clear in my own mind that I was being fair. Tell me about that. How did you approach the students and tell them they weren't doing well. It was really hard. She's gotten a couple of grades that on written papers and we had talked about it and I was really careful to go over the papers with her and show her what was well-written and clear and what wasn't and you know, what was confusing or point out the typos. She at one point said to me. Why do you care so much about typos, don't you think you're like Focus too much on that?

18:59 And I told you that when you work in the field, you know, you can let something go out with a typo so that it was you know, really good practice for her. And because it was the first time I was giving a student a low-grade I actually spoke to the head of the department and I found out that she's been having trouble in other classes and it was very good validation for me. You know that I reached the decision on my own but that I also I was being fair and I was being objective.

19:25 So but that was not the fun part. The fun part is giving out 8 pluses and everybody likes them.

19:35 Who was your date? Who is your favorite student or was your favorite soon? There was a woman in this semester whose name was Victoria and she really went from being an average student to a stellar student.

19:53 I don't know what was going on in her life like the first three or four classes, but she was sitting in the back of the room and she wasn't really active one of her papers was poorly written and I I think I gave her like a B minus.

20:08 And she also she approached me and she wanted to know exactly what she got in the grade and I spent time with her and from that part on from that time on she really blossomed and part of the work they had to do they had to present in front of the class. They had to take a topic and do a 20 minute lesson and she was great. She picked a topic she really cared about she did beautiful research. She was comfortable up in front of the room. She engage the students. It was just wonderful to see her Blossom like that. So that was that was fun the semester that was this some of that was just the semester have do you remember your first class that you ever thought there different class? They were only eight students and I had I think we were expecting about 20. So all the prep work was based on 20 students and then when I had ate everything, you know, all the logistics had to be redone all the role plays and the the time

21:08 Open Q&A. Everything had to be redone and that was really hard. So I know I have a really deep respect for teachers now that I don't think I had before cuz it's an enormous amount of work. You know, when you barely get paid for the time you actually spend in the classroom. So most Sundays when I'm teaching I am home grading papers. Yeah, it's a little Glory right underappreciated. There you go.

21:40 I'm saying so now you said you are you started a new job? What did you feel like the first day you walking in the door at your new job? How did you feel?

21:55 You know, what's interesting doing the interim work that I was doing for a while and Consulting first days sort of have lost the fear. You know, how first of anything is often, you know a little nerve-wracking because I met with so many different clients and started so many different projects, you know over the past 10 years. I find that they really exciting, you know, you get eat I've already had a chance to meet at least one or two of the people. So I feel a little bit grounded and I'm I'm sort of prepared not you know not to know a lot and it sits in the stairs and assessment. And a kind of getting to know people and getting to know the organization, but it's like starting an adventure.

22:40 You know, it's it's figuring things out and figuring out how to work with people and learning that's organization part of what I do is, you know having to be I have to be a quick study to talk to donors, you know, you have to really taken the information and figure out how you're going to tell it. How are you going to talk about it? So it's fun. It's an adventure as a board of directors my favorite topic. That's what I teach.

23:08 In a nutshell I think a board can either make or break an organization. The right board of directors can ants such a value and wisdom and connections that can really help an organization Skyrocket. Unfortunately most nonprofits struggle, you know, no matter where they are in the food chain. The boards are often behind.

23:35 And change it happens really slowly as it does with any part of an organization. So that's it's a big challenge. It's a big challenge. I think that the executive director or the president, you know over the head of the organization is has to be prepared to spend 30 to 40% of their time.

23:53 With the board working with them teaching them their role teaching them about the organization keeping them engaged. And as soon as you've got a board this working there's turnover. So you have to start recruiting new members and going through the whole screening process and then helping to create a group out of the new people.

24:13 It's a lot of work.

24:16 What is your ideal board member look like?

24:20 He looks like this guy Tom that I used to work with.

24:26 Tom was in his early forties and he had made a lot of money and took a year off.

24:32 He had a family and I know they worked it out. So he went to volunteer organizations he cared about.

24:40 And he came into the organization. I was working at and you know went through some screening process and decided he wanted to learn about development.

24:48 And we worked hand-in-hand and he did everything. I mean he may thank you calls and he edited proposals and he talked to his friends eventually. He got on the board and he started his chair the development committee.

25:02 And Willie set very high standards. You know, he wanted people to stretch.

25:08 And he felt that he had given, you know of his time and his money and he expected that of his peers. So he went on to head the development committee and then governance and then became chair of the board when I appreciated most about him was he would sit down with every board member once a year and go over their report card and their report card was what they give what they got attendance at board meetings and committee meetings and he would have it in writing and if someone was doing well, he brought them A celebratory lunch should thank them and if somebody wasn't up to Snuff in a particular area, he would put them in a you know, he did it with such Grace and coming from the perspective that the organization deserve the best board.

25:59 So it's somebody missed a lot of meetings. He would say to the director. What's going on in your life. I see the year before you were there all the time. Now, you're missing meetings. You're not active on your committee, you know, what's happening and often he would find out that there was a new job or a new baby or something. That was really taking their time and he would suggest that maybe they took a leave of absence for a while.

26:24 Because the organization needs active committed board members and a seat that wasn't really being utilized Hearth organization.

26:33 And he would do the same thing if people weren't making a contribution.

26:37 And I think that's some board members, you know didn't like being treated like that. I think it made some people very uncomfortable. But there were some people who really appreciated it who felt badly about not doing the best job. They could schedule board members join a board cuz they care about the organization and when they actually saw that they weren't Towing the mark and that there was a way out gracefully they were relieved.

27:05 They were relieved so that accountability piece is really important really important. Where is Tom now? You know, he's actually he rotated off that board and then went back on and they honored him two years ago for all his service. He's just the nicest guy a great father a great husband a great fourth member a great golfer one of those people. What's a Santa capped his mouth was?

27:42 And when he believed in something he believes in seeing it through.

27:47 And he was most comfortable.

27:50 With holding people accountable and that's really with an organization needed. Their board is great now and the organization has like doubled in size. They're all over the Press, you know, it really made a huge difference made a difference also in the next round people who join the board.

28:08 Do you want to make a difference be a good board member?

28:14 I'm so you've been here at storycorps now for quite a few months. Would you like I can't even say this without laughing? Who is David living?

28:29 About one of your first travel

28:33 I'm actually I was hoping you'd ask. I think this deserves to be recorded the president and I were in a very hilly City.

28:45 And we had an appointment an early morning appointment with a very big potential donor.

28:51 And we were having coffee and the president we were supposed to the president's assistant and dutifully given us a name of a car service. We were supposed to be calling the car service at 8:30 to make sure we got to the appointment on time and at 8:30 the president suggested that it was such a nice day and he is looked at a map that we can walk in San Francisco and San Francisco in this very hilly neighborhood now wanting to be a good new employee. I said, of course, let's walk will nervous. I was dressed up, you know in heels.

29:26 After a couple of blocks uphill and there was streets on the ground that were not on the map.

29:34 So both of us little huffing and puffing realize that we were not going to make the appointment on time. And what time was the appointment at nine nine 9:15, and we had like seven minutes or eight minutes to get to this appointment and it was a big it was abused big beautiful neighborhood with wide Street. No traffic near the Presidio. I think so the president calls his assistant in Brooklyn.

30:03 To tell her that we're in trouble and we need a cab that you might be able to add a little bit of the flavor of what the assistant said, which is the time. I'm thinking it's about 11:30 should be about 8:30 in California. Who could this Cee lo and behold it was the president?

30:27 I said hello, and he said Katrina we have a big problem and I said, oh what might that they aren't you on your way to your appointment and down. He said that we are laying and I had decided to walk and I said that was not perhaps the best decision. I wasn't working out. How's that working for you with the hills and in San Francisco? He said actually we decided to walk and I'm I'm killing Arlene. She's she's barely able to breathe. She's behind me and we're not going to make it or we need a cab and I said I gave you the number it's in your file. But let me let me get you that number again, so I gave him the number and I proceeded to try to scold him. Why did he deviate from my call for a cab at 8:30? What was what was system?

31:27 SpongeBob especially if I flew to San Francisco just for this meeting in the woman had had a death in her family and she needed to leave at 10. So clearly if you were late you were losing that 60 Minute window there. So with that he hung up and then what happened on your end the president called the cab company and was told it would take 15 minutes to get to us and what if I wasn't now there was about and so we really panicking at this point and I happened to see coming down the street a a truck with an open back with rakes in it, you know, like a garden snake the landscape company.

32:12 And I stepped out in front of the truck in the middle of the street in the middle of street and I go to the window and I'm a little bit of panic I said, I'm in such trouble. I'm going to lose my job. My boss is going to kill me. We have to get to this house. It's 5 minutes from here. Could we please have a lift and he looked at me and he said, you know, my boss will kill me. I can't let you get in the car and he didn't care if your boss is going to kill you.

32:44 So do the truck pulls away and I turn around and Dave has his head in a car of a window. So I go over and the guy is trying to get rid of him. So I stuck my head out of the window and it's the same story. We're in such trouble. We're from New York. We're late. We know the house is near here, please please please give us a ride by Bob and days has will pay for it. You know, he finally said, okay get in we get in the backseat of this very nice car. And we noticed a driver has a very heavy Russian accent and Dave starts used to offer him money and he says I don't want your money. Don't be silly Bubba blah, you know, you know, we know we're getting closer to the house.

33:28 And Dave said, you know you've been so nice to us. I can't thank you enough. You've just saved our butts. Tell me your voice is name. I would love to call him and tell him what a great guy. You were how you helpful. You've been in the guy ghost. You can't call my

33:48 So luckily we were on the corner and we were like 2 minutes late. So we rang the bell and it would stop right there because I forgot to add that. He told me that I should call the woman. That was the other part because now you would late.

34:08 Okay, or you going we would like so I had to call the women and now I wasn't sure exactly what to say because I didn't know if you had gotten the cab. I didn't know you were throwing yourself in front of truck going in consulate cards. I didn't I didn't know any of this is going on and I called the woman and I was like hello mrs. So and so, this is Katrina, unfortunately Arlene and my boss or a little a little delayed. I believe they were inspired by the beautiful weather there in California because it's snowing and very cold in Brooklyn and I guess they woke up this morning and saw the bright sunshine and thought wow, what a beautiful place to live. We should just walk to this meeting and she's like really they walked from the hotel and I'm like, yes. Well again, you know, they were just it's just so inspired by the beauty of where you live and I didn't know what else to say that she's like, well you

35:08 Do realize I have to leave at 10 until that will just make the meeting shorter and I'm like, yes. Yes. I know. Okay, you know, I'm really sorry. I apologize. You know and she's asking about the weather in Brooklyn, whatever and then we hung up. Okay. So now you'll get to the doorbell we get to the door and only like 2 or 3 minutes late and she's so surprised to see us because she has a meeting with actually very very well. We stayed for about 45 minutes. She was very interested. She was very excited to hear everything. We had to say and Nemo we had not had a moment to like debris for anything. We get out on the sidewalk and lo and behold our habits via taxi on the corner which we flagged and we get in the bed we get in the taxi and the two of us look at each other and just start cracking up. It was like we were hysterical and Dave looked at me and he said I can't believe you and I let him know that that was likely to be the last time.

36:08 Did he shouldn't get used to that and expect clearly? Well, actually then he called me afterwards after that meeting and he said to me cuz we had a great meeting and I knew that I hide the right person when Arlene threw herself in front of that truck. I knew that she was the right person for storycorps.

36:40 So yeah, and that was on wild committed to not doing this that was quite something and I have to use that line every once in awhile Dave. Okay, okay.

37:07 There was an advocate who worked at the foundation who gets us into see the head of the Family Foundation executive director has a real storycorps fan and we set up this meeting and the head of the foundation is an elderly woman in her 80s.

37:25 And we chat a little and then Dave starts talkin about storycorps and is even playing some clips and we look across the table and the woman is taking a little nap.

37:38 It was humbling to say and then she wakes up with a store at the tail end of the presentation and get storycorps doesn't really challenging questions. I think by the end of the meeting we've actually, you know, kind of got her interest on but we left in this is my favorite line. Dave said he felt like he was in a boxing ring with an 83 year-old woman.

38:13 Susan very we've had some humbling in. There you go. Maybe you should try.

38:31 Oh my goodness.

38:34 So, where do you see yourself? I have to tell you though that since you've been working hear your laughter is just like intoxicating my notes. It's just it's just really really Pleasant to work and like hear you laughing. You know, I'll send an email you'll respond like what this like really funny response all open the email thinking like, oh, here's another Lake of boring kind of work-related thing. And then you say this like crazy thing. I start laughing at you mail you something back. You start laughing in your butt here you behind your closed door and oh my God, she must have read that again. And it's just a really great working relationship and environment because we work really hard here. We are under an enormous amount of pressure is very little if not any down time at all, and it's just Gray.

39:34 That are that you're part of storycorps now and yeah, I love coming to work looking forward to like the next. Jokes Adventure when you can life is really short and I love being your an enlarged for discuss with you. It's nice to have a co-worker that you can really laugh with and problems help with.

40:00 Cuz it is it's hectic and it gets crazy, but it's it's been fun.

40:04 Any way to bring my dog to work, she likes working here. Yes. I was one of our favorite employees.

40:13 She hasn't filled out her W-2. So one more question. How would you like to be remembered? Oh my God, I would I like to be remembered.

40:37 I think I would like to be remembered for two things one having a sense of humor and to having made a difference.

40:46 And that would be very satisfying if if that were to happen.

40:52 Well, thank you. Thank you for doing this Darlene. Does this really got it, right. There was fun go storycorps.