Meghan Stabler and Samir Luther

Recorded March 6, 2010 Archived March 6, 2010 46:35 minutes
0:00 / 0:00
Id: DDC000783


Samir Luther (29) interviews his friend and colleague, Meghan Stabler (46) about her transition from male to female. Meghan also talks about being a parents and her work with Human Rights Campaign.

Subject Log / Time Code

Meghan talks about the happiest moment of her life, when her daughter was born.
Meghan talks about being five years-old and knowing she was different.
Samir asks Meghan, “who was the first person you told.” Meghan remembers telling her sister about her gender identity and knowing she was a woman.
Meghan talks about being a parent and being transgender woman.
Meghan talks about her sexual orientation and identifying as a lesbian.


  • Meghan Stabler
  • Samir Luther

Recording Locations

Human Rights Campaign Building

Venue / Recording Kit

Partnership Type

Fee for Service


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00:04 My name is Samir Luther. I'm 29 and today is March 6th, 2010 or in the Human Rights Campaign building in Washington DC and I am a business partner and colleague of Meghan Stabler.

00:19 And my name is Meghan Stabler. I am 46 years old. Today's date is March 6th 2010. We are in the HRC National Building here in Washington DC and my relationship to Samia Lewis de is I would last him as a good friend and a strong LGBT business advocate.

00:41 Louis Kahn in

00:44 Send Megan. What what would you say is the happiest moments in your life or the saddest? Wow, the happiest moment was probably too happy moments in my life. The first one was when my daughter was born in 1993 because it had taken my then-wife and I quite a bit of time to conceive and getting the news that she was pregnant and then actually being there in the hospital in Columbus, Ohio and getting to cut the cord and see this child. Come to life was just ecstatic for me was probably sad because I knew on the inside of me that I could never conceive and carry a child myself and I was happy that I had one and it's mostly probably be sad because the experience was just shared by my wife and I cuz both of us as the parents were overseas.

01:41 I know the second part of that is the day of my transition the day that I was finally able to ask who I was through my gender expression and

01:55 Had reached a point of completion.

01:58 Of that transition where I was recognized as a woman.

02:03 And have corrected the inaccuracies of my body and realigned it to how I felt inside how much time was there between the birth of your daughter and the day you transition.

02:15 About who could know the question. I got to calculate it now 11 to 12 years. So my transition it started, you know, I knew who I was when I was 5 years old.

02:28 I didn't know exactly what it was.

02:31 To be able to tell you what was going on inside my head, but I knew it was something different when I was 5 ish and then I kind of a phone what it was when I was 10 cuz I can remember and I grew up in England sign across here in the United States, but I remember reading a newspaper cuz back then in the early 70s. We didn't have the internet and technology in Google. I remember those in the newspaper and had a big splash when it says sex change tennis player.

02:58 Ranee Richards and it was like a light bulb going off in my head connecting a whole bunch of neural connect is that said that's you. I don't know what it meant. But for some reason to collect so my transition kind of began then but not in reality because I didn't have the courage to admit who I was to anybody until 2004.

03:26 And then my real transition started almost done with a lot of Heartache in 2005 and it was a series of progressing surgeries is as you know about so it really started at an early age, but it did so if Pete and the the early 2000s, but you knew when your daughter was born that you wanted to have a child. You go through you go through life. Just hiding who you are not able to tell anybody but I had my brain has had always been telling me I said I was different when I was very young.

04:05 I began to understand exactly what it was when I was in my teenage years. Imagine imagine knowing that you should have been born a girl but not being able to tell anybody and being a somewhat religious family not Bible bashing, but somewhat religious family where I was a choir boy. He went to Sunday school and you would pray every night for three things when you wake up in the morning you'd be a girl.

04:35 That all of your wardrobe for baby girls clothing and that your parents will still love you.

04:41 It never happened.

04:43 So you break up.

04:45 And you get dressed and go to school and you deal with trying to fit in with the boys and trying to make sure they are not seen as being different not that might build is any different from a boy and I was big boned and Neon 6 with one when I was 14 and a half. I think it was played on the school basketball team, you know, I was doing the sports to try and fit in with everybody. So that should have just dragged along inside of me. So I already knew who I was but can't tell anybody in.

05:18 You know, my my wife was my girlfriend when I was 16 and she was 18 and we got married when I was 25 and she was 27. We had the child when she had turned 30 and I was 29ish. You know, it said it was it was like a rolling ball that you could never stopped and the energy that I had inside of me was used not only to perform well as a job and build a career and try and suppress myself. It was just

05:48 Eating all of the energy inside of me. So it was I was consistently a conflict and I'd I was telling somebody the other day. I think it's Friday that you know, it was tough for me getting up in the morning as a business executive putting a suit and tie on 9th and my brain with telling me that that wasn't me the body that I saw in the mirror looking back was definitely a male body and it looked he look good. I mean you like clothes so you spent a lot of money that pain can different men stores getting custom shirts and cufflinks in matching ties and Suits the great threats and everything else but inside I was dying and inside I was miserable. So the things about being able to carry a baby being able to conceive

06:36 With severe is a jealousy and because I couldn't do that and I couldn't say to somebody that I wish I could do that. So addressing it was growing to be more and more of a requirement for me to be sane. So all that time before all those years. She didn't whisper a word to anyone not to anybody not even on the internet, so they know.

06:59 Well, I mean the internet was a little bit of a different saying I'm in the I'm a technologist. I've been around technology be before PCS. I was dabbling with the early stages of PCS. So back in the 90s, we had bulletin board systems used to use a dial-up system. So I remember searching

07:20 You know you would you would spend weeks and months not trying to address this not trying to think about it. And then you'd have these intense periods of trying to research and find information without anybody finding out that you're trying to find information. So when bulletin board systems with CompuServe and AOL and and some of the other ones came up there was some very formative places to go for information. It wasn't full crate information as far as being transexual when you a lot of people wizard of the Cross dresses and things like that, but they were places you could go and try and research information. But by then I knew I knew what it was. It was stupid enough sensationalism in the meteor about in quotes that sex change Rosie referring to is GRS now,

08:11 You can you can pick her up or you can watch the Maury Povich Show. You can watch different tabloid TV show type things to sort of Grouchy. She's looking good or he's looking good. If they're transitioning from female to male and through his paintings of jealousy. My real research came in the early 2000s when I realized that I had to do this, you know, it's post 911 and I'd realized that having lost people in the Twin Tower attack that these would people that never got the chance to say I love you or do something about me. I need to to know how I'd like you to know or hug a family member whatever it may be mean and here I was surrounded by a family and a great life.

09:00 Some wealth a big house. I know the typical things to say to show for these things. Everyone around me thought I was had a great life and that was the truth that was surrounding them and inside I was living a lie, and you're the whole process of transitioning is when you finally tell the truth about yourself and many people react in a very negative why you because they question won't has been around them is a perceived truth is now a definitive lie. And so the stress of making that first cool having that first conversation had kept me through the decades might be having it.

09:37 I notice finally at a point where I needed to have that for my own sanity. So who was the first person you told my sister?

09:46 I spent time.

09:48 How to say I've lived in the States since 1990 and it

09:52 How to apply for US citizenship at the same time as I was trying to deal with can I transition can I deal with this?

10:00 And so there's a lot of things going on here in the United States at the same time with

10:05 Just begin to question and I spent two months writing a letter basic page and I would refine it and I would look at it and I hide it in my briefcase and I picking out again and that I pressured through some of my laptop and it was encrypted and two months go by and then wife and daughter overseas in England, and it was my daughter's birthday in June and I said I'm going to fly over and I'm going to take them to Amsterdam. We're going to stay the night hotel and I'll show them Holland because I spent a lot of time traveling and before I do that. I'm going to stop off at my sister's house in England. Just north of London.

10:47 And so I called him and said I was going over and arrived at the doorstep husband got off to work. She had just had a baby girl. So she was Home Alone on the most snow on a baby with maybe two months old. I think it really was and I said it so many to say but I can't say it. I need to go to the kitchen. I ask that you read the letter in the love. It's written in and she wanted to the living room and write the letter and

11:18 Name of the ticket to Kitchen where we both started crying and she said I'm sad I'm losing a brother.

11:25 I'm happy I'm getting a sister.

11:31 That believe away every expectation I had because

11:36 I expected you not to react that way. I didn't expect it to be so good and she's young.

11:44 Back in the early 2000. She was my biggest champion that I couldn't I couldn't tell my parents.

11:52 So I bought a book with me. It was supposed by Donna Rose who obviously we both know and we do in the community who do no great book called wrapped in blue and I said him I want you to read this cuz next time I come back. I need to probably speak to Mom and I would ask that you read the book and understand where I'm coming from.

12:14 And then I went off the Holland and I had a great short vacation with my daughter and my wife was there and we might actually my wife sister in as well. So we had two rooms and I miraculously

12:31 Managed to get us a room by myself because of that time. I put on home loans. I was biting my chest. I was wearing a tight Under Armour. Should I had a shirt on a tire jacket and I was just hiding who I was so this way. Nobody could see me, but I just want to have fun with my daughter and I lost 50 lb in weight that kept a military crew cut haircut for long. Of time. There was blonde shoe sunshine. I remember had pink streaks in the top of it and nobody was questioning. I think my wife is what he's thinking I was gay or something but my daughter and I had a blast and I tried several times to say things to her night didn't have the guts to do it. So I kind of left it until they got back.

13:14 Into the United States and that August timeframe to my daughter go back to school and that's when I basically told my wife.

13:22 But I was gone for this.

13:25 What?

13:27 I mean I guess how is being a parent and transgender.

13:31 Changed you

13:33 I don't think it's changed me cuz I think I think who I was has defined who I am and I think who I am is exactly how I wanted. I don't think I've changed.

13:47 Changing that at all, I think.

13:51 Former parents point of view with a child. I'm open to if my child would have say I'm gay. I'm a lesbian. I'm transgender.

14:03 I have absolutely no issues to me and my best friends today are gay lesbian and transgender citizens. I then not best friends. I class you as well as is this next word the real family the people that I enjoy being around and I'm friends with when I first told my daughter what I was going through which unfortunately happened within an hour of telling my ex-wife

14:35 She asked me and my daughter was not even a teenager yet. And so she was 11.

14:42 She asked a question. I asked you what you trying to tell me I was like well, if you if you had a great singing voice, but somebody told you and continuously told, you know, you're not allowed to sing you get very frustrated. That's how I felt inside. I couldn't actually expose who I was and so I tried in the lamest way to explain what was going on with me and then there's a lot of Heartache for a couple of months because my ex-wife took it back overseas and we had to initiate divorce proceedings. What's a roll forward several years and my daughter is seeing me through transition my daughter spent a lot of time with me where I would spend the weekends with her and I gradually introduce it to Megan.

15:21 To the point now where I think my daughter is a strong advocate for our rights that we don't have and we should have precursor by

15:33 Something related to being transgender, but you know the don't ask don't tell situation from the the the Lord that we're trying to repeal right now and she join me in Houston in October.

15:45 I do voices of on a tour to with servicemembers way watch the movie and

15:51 She was going to go back to a moment Austin so they can fly back to England on the Wednesday. She's as you know, this Human Rights Campaign event going on on Thursday and said I should get so can I stay a few more days with you? Cuz I want to go to that land after she was there an extra she listened to the stories and having known my story because my stories out there on the web and she can read it and she sees it physically with my change we're driving back and she goes to this is ridiculous. It's ridiculous why you just don't have rights five people have to fight for their rights today to the point now where you know, she's eager to come back and spend time with me here in the United States. Could she lives overseas?

16:31 And she believes in what we're trying to do and I think she's going to be a child advocate. So rather than me as a parent has it changed me? I think I should change my daughter cuz I think I'm still the same person if that answers the question you're asking lake. So I'm curious when you talked about living and traveling all over the world and it seems like things that you have experienced a lot of the world in in perhaps something you have relationships that are spread out all over the world. How did you end up?

17:02 Ending of ending in the United States become a citizen in the US. I was a high school dropout I took

17:14 I consider it a lot more exams in England that the den is traditional student. Does we had back then cold o levels and a levels. I took 30 no levels. Typically, I think people used to take about eight. I passed them and move on to do my a-levels and then

17:31 Margaret Thatcher was in an impound employment had risen and I was a youth then I was like

17:38 I had an I had interest from master and British Aerospace to do some work around the space shuttle and then stuff and

17:48 They mapped out. What I saw is mapped out ahead of me. Was this whole life ahead of me, too?

17:54 Graduate school at complete this and then I'm going to get a job and that wasn't for me and it's 17. I dropped out switch. My principal said I want to go look at Computing and see what I can do for me started that could hide by a us company when I was 21 helped redefine the European companies cuz I was like number 20 or 16 in Europe we go to three hundred plus people and then I was bored and I called that guy here in the state school near later, who is my boss's boss's boss and I said nay like I love you and I left the company but I've got to go find something else to do cuz I'm not challenged any civil. When are you coming to the states? That's what got me to the states is a simple phone call to Columbus, Ohio where I live for a few years before being a quiet by another company in New York and Long Island and then leaving them going through the start-up business round stand around looking in Manhattan.

18:52 And then leaving that when I realized I was commuting 5 hours a day into Manhattan and back and after 9/11 joining a company who asked me to help turn it around in Austin, Texas. This is kind of a long way round and then become a u.s. Citizen was important to me for many many years cuz I remember as a kid looking at the US and taking it was the land of opportunity as the land of the free and a life liberty and the pursuit of happiness writing all those all those things and he was England gray and gloomy and I didn't quite like it and I like to I like the look of America and

19:28 Decided I was going to move to America when I was younger and

19:32 The only hard thing to me was essentially giving up my British citizenship because the passport got me into more countries with less hassle than probably the u.s. Passport us, but I applied in 2003 or 2002. I think it was 2002 because

19:52 We have gone through the hanging chad episode in Florida, and I thought well, I don't want to suffer another few years and I've been around the LGBT issues from anytime from any is going back to the 80s. I didn't want to be back into another Republican.

20:06 Election cycle and the only way to do do anything was to be able to vote and that's the only difference was going to difference between you and I at the time was as a citizen you can vote and as a resident of the United States I couldn't so I applied and took me five years. I had to rush to get to congresswoman Sheila Jackson Lee involved because I didn't know where my application was every time. I went to USCIS to find out they said we don't know it's with FBI and every time I try to contact friends in the FBI, they said we can see it. It's being checked.

20:38 Meaning they're looking at

20:41 Different work I done on behalf of to convert defense organizations and Intel agencies, I guess and so with the congresswoman I got her involved ask for help and nine months later that my application was approved go take a picture and send it in to get your passport. And when I saw the congresswoman who's become a good friend of mine. She said they was held up while stated security clearance on you. That's all I can tell you. That's what I'm going to tell you. So I was glad I became US citizens every to vote in the last election service in 2008 go for that hope and change so was it was supposedly more about the security and not related to your you're being transgender transgender. In fact, you know, it's some

21:30 I've been pretty lucky. I mean other than some workplace issues which has affected me where at I'm no longer at a senior executive-level and no longer getting the pay that I did before transition. You know, I have a job and I have health insurance and it gives me extra time to fight for what should be a basic right? You know that we have to work without being I don't I don't use the word persecuted by field without Protections in the workplace and protections at the state level of protection is the national level. We are persecuted. We have the chance to be persecuted but not when it comes to Federal documents and things, you know, it is a hassle unsure for transgender people like me because you have to go back with documentation. You have to go to a surgeon to have to get the ladder you have to go to Social Security get your Social Security card changed and then immediately go to DMV and get your driver's license and change. Each state is difference is sometimes you don't need the surgical letters. You can go to the

22:30 DMV office in I don't know before you pick it up.

22:34 State does not like this but like Nevada or Arizona where you can just go in and say I found this is my gender and he gets a new driver's license that says female or male and you can carry on your life being in the postoperative a preoperative transsexual of the Janda that you you're feeling to it to go ahead and be in whatever that he's with me. I want to go through and make sure everything was done and get through that soap documentation can be a pain. I haven't updated my British passport. I can't have dual citizenship. But because countries a different this semester steps that I have to go through to do that. I just haven't had the time to do that. So your US Passport has a curious

23:19 Switching gears a little bit. You've always been one of the more self-aware and intentional people I know in a good way and then wonderful times and I'm I'm curious if there was I mean what what you might say was for the biggest surprise about Megan to you.

23:44 Meghan didn't change much from what he was like, I think the biggest change was probably the stress went away and I could do more and I was happier. I think and I have no idea if this is related to any things that happened I went from the MacGyver approach of give me something and I'll fix it or figure out how to deal with something to I love cooking and never used to cooking before for some reason. So now ghosts are the pantry and I'll see what I've got left in that pantry and I will put something together so that my partner and I can eat something and she'll always go that's good. And also to quizzically look at us a are you really sure it's good. She has no it's great honey. I love it and she will ask me to make the same thing again, but there's no way I can remember cuz I'm pulling ingredients off the shelf and just mixing it up. So other than removing the stress and being happier is the true of thumbed.

24:42 Identity that I've been aware of and 46 now for sofa 41 years of my life. I've been aware of that difference that happiness that stress but you know what is being no difference other than for some reason of a strange left for cooking fish and explains. I put that wait on that. I lost your in a stressful time seeing if that's the problem.

25:05 So tell me you were saying earlier. You're getting ready to start a new job. I guess for a lot of people their jobs is so consuming and you have so many things you do outside of your job.

25:20 I guess what what what do you see is sort of.

25:24 If it if you're assertive entering into a new phase what what sort of Hope do you have for this next phase of your life job. This is a job with a company that I left in 2000 where I was a senior vice presidents and executive but the cool the really cool thing. I don't have to ask because I am outgoing I am generally happy and smiley and like to embrace people and it's just stories and just make sure if people are comfortable with lots of different things is that I wasn't hide or question because of being transgender.

26:06 I was high because of my capabilities. I was tired of what I can hide because of what I can bring to the workplace is a little bit different from what I'm doing today at the company. I'm currently at before I resign and take the new job which is I have been demoted several levels and I do take that personally and I don't have the same income and I do take that post because I didn't fax what I pay for and how I can pay for things and mentally that stresses me out because I'm like, I'm no different than I was before the physical outside is completely different. Why can't I do the same job that I was doing and I loved it was customer-facing this new company did not question and I met with a senior leadership team. They have queried anything. They haven't come back and said we want you to work for his but whatever you do just don't step outside. We want you to hide and be inside the camping with the back and then like we want you to do this when we do that.

27:00 So there is no restrictions that I'm aware of on that position and the the only cool thing as I've told a few people that came out was during one of the interviews one of the women that I'm going to be working with said you've referred to you or

27:18 Other half is your other half two times now, why'd you refer to him as your other half?

27:23 And I said cautiously when it's not a him. It's a her I'm a lesbian and I've been in a lesbian relationship before you is expecting. Maybe this is the end of the job interview and she's a good she just blurted out in this restaurant was sitting in Austin text you cuz that's fantastic. I love lesbians. I have lots of gay friends. I love lesbians. You know what when we go to New York. I want to take you to this club going to stay at this hotel. I'm so pleased, you know where she's from California and let you know scary thing is I'm a big Facebook, you know, who knows for the people that listen to take a shower now if Facebook is still going to be around but I'm a big Facebook use it and she Facebook me within 24 hours and one of the first things I sent to Facebook is that she's a member of the yo, I can get a million members to support same-sex marriage. So I'm feeling pretty confident that

28:17 I'm being hide for what I can do not just because of who I am that makes sense. So let's say we achieved full equality for LGBT people. How would you envision you spending your time? Wow on a beach with a book because you know Santa's today or responded to to some of you say, why do you do a lot? Why do you do this? And I think my status was

28:52 Equality was not fighting for equality was not something that I chose. It was something that shows me.

28:59 And to me it's the whole Broadstripe of equality is not just about finding for transgender equality is it's about finding for everyone and I do the same if if it was needed to fight for people of color or people with disabilities. So don't ask don't tell is key for me. Just that the whole Level Playing Field of full equality. So I'll go fight for and and donate to fighting for same-sex marriage. If we have to the state level. I'll go if I'm asked to help repeal Doma at the federal level, you know, I don't care. So for me, it's for me. It's just something that is the right thing to do and to fight this anybody especially with what was seen by me as a kid is being this Progressive great country to go live in

29:46 And then getting here and realizing it's not as great as long as Progressive because I was here during the late 80s mid-late eighties when the whole act up was was around for HIV and AIDS and so I was aware of different things that we going on. So for me is it's a given that I will keep fighting and I'll use my energy and I'll use my time to fight for the broad brush to put strength of a party that we need.

30:13 Do ants Dumb and Dumber is the Defense of Marriage Act. That actually was.

30:18 A terrible acts that was voted into Congress that redefined marriage is being being between a man and a woman and I think a lot of people get

30:30 Confused as to why we fight for marriage and they think of it as being a religious requirement that we have that we have same-sex marriage marriage between a man and a man and a woman and a woman and it isn't it's because we want to have the same rights responsibilities and obligations as opposite-sex couples.

30:55 For example

30:57 If I was to marry again to my partner.

31:01 We would not be able in the current law to file a tax return as married filing. Jointly, you know, we have to create special documents that should that be an injury to her or to me. I am defined as being her partner that I should be able to get access to her if she's in a hospital bed on me and this is 13 year age gap between my partner and I she's 33 and I'm 46. So she's always worried about all the work that I do. You can have a heart attack slow down. I need to make sure that I can come and see you in a hospital. So it's a lot of different laws or rights given rights defaulted rights that I was at sex couples get that we don't and that's why

31:48 Because dumb is there I want to make sure we're appealing if you have to repeat it one state at a time and it get marriage equality of marriage recognition than we going to go ahead and do that.

31:58 So shifting gears a little bit again. How would you like to be remembered?

32:05 I would like to be remembered as 8 plus and that was within a movement.

32:12 Fitz may change happen

32:15 So it's not it's not about me. It's about the work that I did with others to.

32:22 To open up the door for

32:25 Equality to open up the door for the transgender people to have an easier transition.

32:33 Open up the door in the workplace to let them see that they can retain an employee that is transitioning Lord. That is genderqueer or Janet different, right?

32:46 But that person can still do the job that they were doing before and they can basically be happier without the stress and probably even perform even better that I can open the door and stop.

33:00 Anybody considering suicide where I was as well at one point in my life literally with a gun in my hand and having lost friends and names to Suicide. I put a stop that so I think it's it's I'm a cog.

33:18 In the wheel of equality, I think I'ma

33:23 I'm a squeaker Cog in that will because I do things nationally. I don't sit back and do armchair activism. I get up and I go do it and I will fight and I'll continue to fight and I'll be a voice and I do use any media any vehicle any piece of time. I have any money I have I will use my volunteerism. I'll get my friends to do the same thing until we get full equality until we stop living in a country and a world of hate and it would have hated from religious aspects cultural aspects aside last fix whatever it is who is for me is a big fight and I'm glad to be a pot off.

34:08 Great people in great organizations, like the Human Rights Campaign is cement, you know kudos to you. You should be sitting here and being in a few too because the work that you do and you know, I hold you on a pedestal because you've been able to do so much with so many some of them you'll never know and some of these people I'll never know but we've all had our time to City Creek open that door of equality and there are more more people piling through it. She's hoping it further and further and further. So I'm just glad to have any part of it in today's world. I wish we didn't have to do it but somebody has to get up and do it. What's been the most what's been the moment when you felt the most powerful like you've been able to really make some incredible change.

34:59 Obviously we still have to win victories was sitting at March 6th, 2010. You know, we've got some same-sex marriage laws and Six States now clean the District of Columbia as of last week from the transgender perspective. I think it's it's not so much.

35:17 Working with Human Rights Campaign on the web Place project and stuff that you guys do around the corporate equality index and measuring transgender healthcare and everything else, but it's

35:29 Is having Help the People?

35:33 And their people

35:36 That I've worked with from Boston to Austin.

35:40 And having them come to me in a complete state of paranoia and fear.

35:46 Physically and lose their jobs and lose that family to going to lose the house. They lose their Health Care by just a minute who they are and doing this and I've been fortunate enough that they asked me to work with a company and sell reach out to the comfort and reach out to HR and I'll talk to the executive management and we'll work on putting policies in place cuz typically has no policy of helping a transitioning employee will work on making sure there's some law in place. What's an eeo in a sexual harassment policy that includes gender identity or expression. I'll conduct some training and so far.

36:22 Everyone that I've worked with from female to male and male to female has been

36:28 Successful and it's good seeing them get back into the workplace. They don't have to stand up and be

36:36 National advocates for even local Advocates because the best thing for us is if they seamlessly go back to the job is if this is a non-issue cuz that's what it is. You know one for 1 today that everyone has been very successful and go back into the work and some of these are corporations that we work with here at the Human Rights Campaign such as Chase and some of them are companies that are small 500 people that will never be on the 14,000 list would have had a totally embracing Progressive.

37:12 Leadership team and even the one may think that Austin is Progressive these companies companies are outside of Austin in a county that is pretty conservative and pretty Republican. So sinh them Thrive and be successful has been probably most positive compelling that I've seen time enjoy doing really enjoy doing it sounds like you're able to get a lot more done with some of these companies then perhaps other avenues of advocacy.

37:43 I think businesses tend to be ahead of legislation. So if that's really where you were leaning to that, I'm in the federal government that still go to an act and Employment non-discrimination Act and it is fully inclusive meaning it includes sexual orientation and gender identity. You know, I'm hopeful that this year in 2010 will

38:03 Pull the bill the house bill which is 3017 out and out of my cup into the floor for a vote Pelosi said that she's going to take it to a floor vote as soon as you can.

38:14 I having work on some stuff last night at midnight. I believe it's going to happen. But legislation moves very slowly corporations can two corporations are progressive and good corporations a progressive and they see that to to recruit top talent. They have to have policies. So I'm still going to work the legislation access backed, you know, we deal with that too. So you've done so much. I feel like we talked about a lot that you've gone through but do you have any particular regrets?

38:52 No, not even I guess sometimes you do regret not having me know the transition. Do you know cuz I wouldn't give me the life experiences that I've had it wouldn't give me my daughter. So I kind of regret anything. I mean do I wish can't course. I wish I was not born this way that

39:08 Into whatever body work was reconciled with my brain that I'd being and no no I'm out of counseling is going to change you from that. Do I wish that maybe I've been born a girl knowing that I am.

39:22 Yeah, I told you I've been up to conceive absolutely but no I have zero regrets.

39:29 Not even from the fact that we have to fight for our rights, you know, bring it on. I'm ready. I'm here.

39:36 Dimensions Renee Richards someone barely on have there been other people that you've looked too or been inspired by.

39:45 Let me see Donna Rose. Definitely Dawn on being a leader in the trans Community. Is she she she was she is and her book.

39:57 Now there are few a few others that one season the media like calpernia Addams and others DC and go. Wow, she's great. She's beautiful. If only I could be that beautiful type thing. But Tim everyone's transition is individual. No one's transition is exactly the same as somebody else's so this one a few that I've looked up to put it in the day. I made my transition to happen, but those doors were open up by others and help me as well. How about cisgender or not transgender people?

40:29 Wow, you see if anyone has filed for people like I can I look up to him.

40:36 You know, they went through through a few leaders and and I'd hate to say.

40:41 Something where you get people riled up, but you know Hillary Clinton and see how she's a leader. She's a woman. She's a lead at the end. She's she's a Statesman was States pissed. So having somebody like that not that I wouldn't be inspired to be her but looking at looking at her, you know, my parents to appoint, you know, my sister just

41:03 Just getting on STI. Okay, I'm sad. I'm losing a brother but I'm glad I'm planning a sister and that would that was the extent really of the conversation.

41:12 Looking up to her even though she's younger than me and saying how she's strong she could do with us and just looking up to people in the the gay movement to you know, I've lost friends to HIV AIDS in the 80s came into my friends and me all the cars that they went through when they were dying alone because people didn't know too much about HIV and AIDS and would not come with them will be with them and they haven't been around when they were going through that, you know, they had a lot of strength even though they were dying. And so that gives me strength to I'm just glad I can do it.

41:48 I think I'll ask my last question. If we're allowed to ask a question don't have any more after this one. You said if we achieve LGBT quality today, he'd be on the beach. Which beach would it be Naples, Florida?

42:03 Thank you, Samantha. Thank you very much, Megan.

42:11 Just know that you were a woman. Did you also always thought you were a lesbian?

42:17 So the question is sounds like I've always known that I was a woman that I always knew I was a lesbian.

42:24 Or do you see those two things that separate the kind of our separate from from gender identity to sexual orientation of two separate things right once up in the head between the is the other ones down below between-the-legs. We could stay the same mistake that I can describe that I

42:42 For the record

42:44 I

42:47 I wasn't sure how to kill myself. So there was a. Of my life with

42:54 I did have a relationship with a man, but that for me wasn't feeling and it didn't end quotes Q on me.

43:04 At what I was feeling inside, but equally to answer that question.

43:08 I

43:11 Didn't go through transition.

43:14 Believing that I was going to be dating a man or a woman I going to have that register as to where it was going to go. I just need to get through transition and then whatever would be would be.

43:28 And then during that transitional process. That's what I meant by Campana Aaron my partner and I should say that when she she found me cuz I was just the talent to transition as a man.

43:41 And she can't understand why she was attracted to me on stage cuz I was teaching a new hat sales class and she called me. She said that you can hang the phone up on me cuz I don't know why I'm attracted to you. I'm a lesbian and she went and I'm attracted to you and I couldn't tell her what I was going through. I just said I'm gay hung up the phone a few months later. She calls me back after the basic see people in the company knew what was going on with me and I was about to transition to a place and she said I'm so glad I now know that you're a woman because I was worried that my day. I was going wrong in my orientation is changing cuz because I've always known I was a lesbian and I was attracted to her and that was the beginning of a relationship. So I think so stems that I should have.

44:24 Thought that I could be a gay man.

44:27 But it didn't feel right and didn't solve I didn't reconcile me. So going through transition. I had I went into it not going to be attracted to men do to women and came out of it being attracted to women.

44:45 Now that's a great question. If you want to say to my daughter, I love her and that's the toughest thing.

44:54 It's been hard on me.

44:57 To be who I am.

45:01 And to see her lose

45:05 I'm lose her dad.

45:08 Are you still calls me Dad?

45:13 I did lose her home.

45:15 Time to go live in England

45:19 I think it's hard for both of us to be.

45:23 So far apart, five and a half thousand miles apart, but

45:30 Isle of Hope

45:34 I love it with a white hog.

45:38 I'm glad that she's

45:40 Recognize who I am.

45:43 And

45:46 Beginning to speak up for

45:49 LGBT equality, I mean I remember

45:53 I was sort of in the process of transitioning and I was in Galveston. I think it was.

46:01 And I hadn't quite

46:04 Cotton Megan looking right and remember there's a couple staring at me and my daughter came up and she said dad are people staring at you and it's like I'm sorry, you know, I just want to go over there and kick their ass and tell them that you my parent and I love you and that's sort of stuck with me and I so love her for that.

46:30 Thank you for making me cry.