Dabney Dwyer and Jana Jackson

00:02 My name is Janet Jackson, and I'm 60 years old. Today is July 11th, 2019, and we are at Dallas Baptist University Dabney Dwyer is my interview partner. She is a friend of mine and a colleague in Ministry we serve together with the Dallas Coalition for Hunger Solutions.

00:27 My name is Dabney Dwyer.

00:30 I am 64 years old.

00:34 Today is July 11th. 2019. We are at Dallas Baptist University. Janet. Jackson is my interview partner and again, and we are colleagues and friends and serve together with a hunger coalition.

00:56 Maybe when you first became a

01:02 I was born here in Dallas. And in fact, even now live just about 5 miles from where I was actually born and so I have not lived anywhere outside of Dallas County my whole life. I first became aware of politics probably in junior high school. I was beginning 7th grade at the time when

01:31 We had court-ordered desegregation of schools in Dallas and that became a very important and really kind of polarizing issue in our family and in my community and something that involved me directly with where I was going to school and who I was going to school with so, that would be probably my first exposure to politics.

01:57 Dabney could you tell us about your upbringing and so does maybe when he first became aware.

02:04 Well, I grew up in Roanoke, Virginia and I've lived in Fort Worth and now in Dallas. I've actually lived in Dallas longer than I live in my hometown, Roanoke, Virginia. I'm similarly. I was thinking the same thing when I was in high school.

02:26 Is when the busing segregation and busting began and our high school for the first time was integrated from a cell self Roanoke.

02:44 Black community and it had an impact on us. There was some violence and some mediation and it is the first time that I had a really experienced diversity and racial Injustice has

03:08 Could you talk a little bit about your faith and how that influences your politics if it all?

03:17 I I am a Christian and I was raised by Christian parents in a Baptist Church, but for me when I say I'm a Christian that is was very much a personal decision that I made made a very young age that I wanted my life to be dedicated and controlled by really by Jesus Christ. And so when thinking about how Faith influences my politics, I really can't see how it wouldn't because my faith is just my identity of who I am and so there's no way that it wouldn't influence. My politics is just who I am just as it influences. I hope everything that I do in my life because I seek to be guided by by God in and all my actions

04:17 Dabney what about you if you talk a little bit about your face and how you see it either influencing or not influencing your phone.

04:28 As I grew up in Roanoke, I grew up in the Episcopal church and had parents that were.

04:37 Faithful and Christians and little bit of a different way than what Jana what I shouldn't say your words, but what up?

04:48 Believe that how we grew up a little bit different terms of our faith, but the church was important to me as a youth I got away from the church a bit through college and then when I got married got more involved into the Episcopal church and my parents and my father and the Episcopal Church itself has really influenced my face my face in Jesus my face in God as well as the experience is over probably the last 15 or 20 years that have sort of confirmed who I am and

05:31 How Faith influences me in the decisions that I make.

05:42 What were you hoping to?

05:45 One thing that I'd love to see from this interview is I just wanted to have the opportunity to celebrate that me our relationship just because our friendships important to me as we've known each other was six or seven years I guess. So just to be able to celebrate that is important I think and then connected to that is that Jesus teaches us that Christians are supposed to have unity. And so if even if as you said, you know, we might have kind of come to Faith different way we have certainly we we go to different denominations. I would I love about our friendship is that we can be in a fight in through Jesus. They are believe in Jesus and I hope that that Unity is a testimony to others and so that's why I wanted to do this recording cuz I think that it will be

06:42 Learning this from each other if you have any questions that you'd like to ask each other.

06:50 Is it time for us to start talking now?

06:55 Can I go first and I just wanted to ask you cuz you know what we've never really talked about our politics too much except their relationship to something else. I just wanted to ask you how you would describe your political values.

07:12 You know, this is a really difficult question for me because it's evolved over the years so I sort of consider myself.

07:25 A moderate to Liberal and when I mean by that is I don't know that I can even tell you really but

07:36 For me, it's it's a face based realization that we are not here to judge and that everyone should be treated equal and so

07:52 Even though the issues are complicated in today's world and I was going to mention a question for you and there's various ways to solve issues that I think which is really where the politics come in more than anything. But the bottom line is that we were all humans and we all need to be treated equal no matter where we are where we're from and I that is sort of who I am.

08:25 Yeah. Yeah, I would agree with that. I love that. You know where our nation is kind of founded on that. I did that to say all men are created equal but I think equal in and I would add to that to that that were made humans are made in God's image and because of that, you know, each person deserves, you know, such a dignity and respect and love from us, right.

08:55 I want to ask you a question cuz I think this is an interesting. What is what do you worry most about the future in terms of?

09:07 I hate to keep using your politics have in terms of the the issues. Is that are critical to this country in particular. What would you do?

09:20 What would you like to see the future? What do you what concerns you about the future?

09:28 And maybe relationship to your beliefs as well, but just

09:32 One thing that concerns me that actually again was a reason for having this conversation with you is especially in the last few years. I know you seen the lack of civil discourse. I will say that but people just seemingly having such trouble talking to each other.

09:56 Even though we might disagree on

10:02 Policy or believes or what is truth even to get into to the big question? And so it worries me that that particularly Christians will lose the ability to talk to each other and love each other and respect each other. So I do worry about that.

10:27 I think I also.

10:30 I'm concerned all over the world in in maybe even more so a little bit more here in the United States. Just feeling a little bit of tension with religious freedom and freedom of expression again in that goes into probably is related to the Civil discourse question. We we we call each other out for not being tolerance when the very Act of calling someone out for not being tolerant consumed not tolerate in so

11:04 Just the Restriction of religious freedom and I don't particularly even mean by government. I think we could we do it to ourselves by calling each other names and deciding each other has some kind of

11:21 Person whoever we think they are without really talking and sell those things concern me for the future.

11:30 What about you? What concerns you for the future?

11:33 My concerns are maybe a little more specific. I mean I am definitely concerned about the the issues that you and I work together on this poverty and hunger. I think it's one thing that I really believe is that you may have different beliefs. But if you care about the same things and we care about Paris we care about Hunger. I'm also concerned about the acceleration in racial discourse. It's really concerning to me that are we stepping back in time on and part of that I think has to do with communication about what what you're saying and how we communicate with each other and how stories are told in a way that

12:27 Just creates more discourse and more Violence by how people what people say what people talked. I mean how they talk to each other how they treat each other so that concerns me a great deal.

12:46 So you mentioned one of the blessings of my life is is our work together on the Dallas Coalition for Hunger Solutions and

12:56 So that is what the thing that kind of brought us together. Is this Mutual desire to help people are hungry, which is really a Biblical command. And so both of us are following your face as we do that and that's been interesting because I've learned a whole lot about what works and what doesn't work in trying to improve food Security in the city.

13:28 Do you want to talk any about I think that definitely been a blessing in my life? It is probably been the most rewarding experience and all my history of of working.

13:51 Primarily because of the diversity of the people coming together and but all working towards the same calls and you you have been a blessing to me as well because I've learned from you. We are we work very well together. We were very different but yet we'd still work and we laugh and and cry and whatever and that just means the world to me but hunger is

14:23 Is something that neither one of us want to see continued and we just keep looking for ways and ways that the faith community can address hunger in their Community. Yeah, I think historically course the faith community has done incredible things to help people especially people in party. I also think we made a lot of mistakes. And so that's one of the things I like about the Coalition is is we work to correct mistakes and to look for the best practices and do things in the right way you talked about diversity.

15:06 As part of this Coalition, which is very Trey which makes me think then about your statement that really that we both grew up to her just a few a few years to a difference in ages and we both grew up in a time when are schools became integrated so that when we could talk a little bit about that and kind of compare those experiences, what was it like for you and the Roanoke?

15:31 Well don't you know more of his lot smaller than Dallas? So it's the impact of the segregation and integration of the schools was very

15:48 Very real. I mean I had experiences.

15:55 I had fear there was some issues of fear from me and school would be would have assemblies to bring people together and talk and it was still still fear in me and I would go over across the street to my neighbor's house because school would be let out because they're worried that there's going to be a violence occurring and then again, this was high school. So it's a little different and I'll go to my friend's house and and just be there and with her and and talk and not because I didn't live very near our high school in the first place. I had to ride the bus and wait for No to go home or my parents to come pick me up. And so there was a lot of just uncertainty about the the future and although interesting enough as to

16:55 Jana did develop some relationships with some folks that had been Bust from another school across town and it's a very very amazing how all that occurred but

17:13 So what was the fear of violence being called in violence? Like I know I'm being threatened, you know the hand over your homework.

17:27 Those kinds of things and it's funny. I haven't thought about some of the specifics of that until now. How about you tell me about the same.

17:37 There is there was because I was in junior high with all the junior high back then when that happen and

17:46 There was a lot of violence in my school and a lot of fighting a lot of problems that came from the result of of the the integration that was forced looking back on it at one of our questions is kind of lessons you learn from your parents. I think it's what lessons to be learned from my parents. My parents taught me a great lesson in that we did not move and it was a time of great white flight to the suburbs during that time and my parents made a conscious decision to stay in our neighborhood when most of our neighbors moved out.

18:35 And so I ended up going to vary.

18:43 Integrated High School in NY that I I really am mostly African-American and white and like you ended up making good friends, even though there were some rocky times there at the beginning and I had my own fear and looking back on it though. I can see the fear of the students who were busting this well that it was just at such a fearful time of of kind of a forced time for us to be together and it's interesting even now is among kids are through school. But but looking at how as humans we tend to self-segregate all the time. I mean even now if you in Dallas the schools of town of self segregated in a lot of ways, I'm not even racially but sometimes we conomic lie in different ways.

19:30 So yeah, that was it. That was a big influence on me and

19:36 Help me. I think I hope helped me be more comfortable around different kinds of people and maybe not the fearful as much in different situations because it's something that I lift. For real. Yeah.

20:02 For me, the initial fear was actually things happening. Like I had a firecracker thrown in my hair. I had girls used to carry big hat pins and stick them in you as you walk down. The hall. The fear was for my physical safety.

20:25 I don't really think of anything. I was told particularly although of course, you know speaking from a political nature, you know, we were watching all this stuff on TV and everybody arguing about it and in all the turmoil so that probably did play into it. But then I experienced actual physical violence at my school. So I don't know that I felt very well protected. I don't know that anybody did right. That's the same for me maybe a little bit at a lesser 10th and Jana but there were there was violence there were knives they were things brought into school this to scare and I think your whole comment about the forced integration is is

21:06 Is Rule poignant because you know, if you think about it that being picked up from your environment and move into a whole nother environment from your black American neighborhood and then forced to go to a all white high school is mean what would you expect there's going to be issues. There's going to be I don't think teachers were prepared. I don't think anybody was really prepared for 4, but I hope I'm a better person for it and that I have hopefully you have taught my children or my child and helped my grandchildren.

21:52 And I think they've learned what what is important about being different and

22:00 Having diversity in your life that that's important.

22:15 Coalition for

22:19 How does politics play a role in the work you do?

22:25 I don't feel like that. It's made our work more difficult because we're focusing on Hunger maybe and so

22:36 Possibly the approaches could be different. I mean you've got

22:42 Maybe people who are more apt to look for a government solution and people who are more apt to look for a product solution within that group, but

22:58 I'd really seen.

23:00 Diversity kind of coalesce around that one issue which is I think made us better. We do have a specific team that's just works with political advocacy for hunger and Daphne has been active with them meme. I talked about that. I've not been acted with him. I'm not a big political activist and I know you're nothing but I do not have been called an Anglican act. I don't know that that's correct. You know, I haven't really been that involved except to understand. I think the the policy committee has allowed me to understand much better. What are the issues around hunger what's going on from a state level in the federal level that that affects child hunger senior hunger the things that we care about some from so my involvement has really been educational.

23:57 I have not taken a real active role in advocacy in terms of actually physically calling, you know Congress senators and have not really been real active in that accept on a couple occasions where they made it easy for you to participate in for something you really believe in and again, I don't think anybody in this country. Well, I won't tell anybody but I would guess it.

24:30 Most people in this country don't want to see Hunger but the issue on how the policy and how its address whether it's government or private or both or something. Something is where I think the issues are and then educating the politicians in our community and in the state about these issues that and how do we

24:58 How do we communicate about what those issues are and why they are important? That's very very difficult.

25:07 For Megan for others and that's why a lot of folks don't just jump on board with with with being a political advocate for Hunger or poverty or whatever when you vote.

25:25 In any kind of election. Are you thinking about Hunger policy when you vote?

25:32 Quite a bit, but you know again, I'm still learning. I mean I still changes there so many little pieces to the largest legislation, but it does affect it does affect how up, how I vote. Yea, yea.

25:47 You know, you described yourself as a moderate to a liberal. I would describe myself as a moderate to a conservative.

25:58 And I think

26:03 I was when I vote I die will generally vote Republican unless there is an issue that's really important to me that I don't see the Republic candidate addressing and then I will vote Democratic so or democrat so I have voted both but more heavily Republican. I've not let it according to food policy do really that's why I asked you if you had done that as much as we work on that was not done that the thing that

26:42 The first time I remember voting consciously choosing a Democrat to vote for was when I voted for President Obama and it doesn't mean I hadn't voted for Democrat before probably had but this is just I remember this very specifically voting for him.

27:02 Because of healthcare we haven't talked about Healthcare, but it's connected with hunger.

27:10 And I personally had a child that I couldn't get insured because he had pre-existing conditions and I did not have Group insurance at the time. I was having to buy a personal policy. I couldn't get insurance for him because of those pre-existing conditions. And so with with President Obama's platform of reforming Healthcare that was just a no-brainer for me, you know, I was voting for him. And so it was kind of a One issues thing that cost me to cash my legs and sure enough. I was able to get insurance later. I'm actually was we're different Fun by the time I'm Obamacare actually came around my eldest son. He was uninsured was able to get insurance through through that. So I feel like my vote is valuable and my vote worked and then I get very scared when we

28:10 Applicants talk about repealing it or changing it in some way if you had a similar experience you and I are very similar in that way and I didn't know that story to vote for Obama saying probably as I said My Views have changed I was probably the most specific change for me or or

28:34 I got more interested in the whole political environment. When about when Obama ran that that they spoke to me in a way partly for the health-care just his his his sense of Humanity on fairness and having worked in healthcare for

28:55 Over 30 years.

28:58 The fact that children and adults and working adults

29:04 Aunt did not have access to healthcare is very troubling to me. I mean, I do think that that ranks right up with not being hungry and not having a roof over your head and not having health insurance for yourself in your family.

29:27 So one of the things that I think troubles me about

29:33 Assumptions made it I would describe myself as an Evangelical Christian as well, which means that for me to me it means that I I share my faith.

29:45 With my words with with the way I live with my actions. I feel like that, you know Salvation is literally good news for people and I want to I want to share that an in at the same time. I feel like a lot of assumptions are made about evangelicals that maybe aren't very complimentary and one of one of those assumptions is that quote, you know, we all voted for Trump, which I didn't I did not vote for President Trump. I pray for President Trump because I've been scripture asked us to pray for those in authority and I do pray for him and hope that he can lead us well, but I did not vote for him. I did not think that he was qualified to be our president in end because of that. I didn't vote for Hillary Clinton either. I feel like my presidential vote. Just kind of got taken away from me because I did not have

30:45 Choice of who I was going to vote for. How did you feel? I feel the same way. I know absolutely that I was not going to vote for Trump. I didn't feel like I really knew the reality of Hillary Clinton because she's because she's been so much in the public light and books written and it's some point and I don't remember when that I don't know if this was Facebook, which I don't take good care for but there was a lot of things written that were inappropriate and nasty about her that somehow crossed my desk across my computer and however, I saw it and I I never really it was hard for me to really know who she was and if she if she would be a good president.

31:45 Did vote for but I felt like I didn't have a lot of choices as well.

31:52 But I was going to ask you a question. Just I just get me when something that you said.

32:00 Why will why you think of it, I think politically now, you know, if I'm to describe my politics now, I kind of feel like I don't belong anywhere and I don't know if you feel that way or not, but I don't the Republican party has disappointed me a lot in the last several years and I've never really considered myself an Ardent Democrat. And so I feel like I don't belong anywhere and and don't even really know how to vote except for some very specific issues and that's disappointing to me because I wish that we had some strong leadership that had the experience in the wisdom that we need to lead our country. I wish we had some people like that step forward by intake on a very difficult job.

32:57 I've been I've been disappointed if I can see how you feel that way particularly with the number of candidates that are running in in totality. I will have to say that.

33:12 I am hoping and praying that a candidate will come forward that I believe will probably likely come from the Democratic Party.

33:24 But I don't know. It's just kind of scary in a way. I am not a trump fan at all and wouldn't probably vote for him. Regardless. I just wouldn't so.

33:39 But I was going to ask you again. I don't know why the future so that resonates with me but

33:51 Have you ever gotten this is a kind of question. I think have you ever experienced out with your political beliefs or a bat. You know what you're saying. You just want to go Democratic what you voted Republican and basically that's the same for me. I mean, I have not always been where I am. Again. It has a lot to do with over the last 10 years that I've gotten more involved. But did you feel like you were actually voting for a party or that you were really just looking for the person that had the values may be religious values may be social values that resonated with you.

34:35 I think that I have looked historically in my life. I've looked for politicians that I felt like have the same moral and religious values, but I want to say that carefully because one of the things that's really important to me is is freedom of religion. And that's freedom of religion for all kinds of religions for everybody in so but at the same time, I do believe that that there are

35:10 Issues and policies that will put America on a better track and issues and policies that will put Americana worst track and so I try to vote that way. I haven't found that though recently. I haven't found anyone to vote for recently that I've had the confidence like I would have with President Obama moving us forward in healthcare. I haven't been able to to discern that likely as far as my doubting my

35:44 Politics because of my faith is that the way you worded it? Okay the way from some kind of party politics but more looking for an individual that you know, and I agree with you that I mean we share the belief that about religion everybody has a right to express their religion.

36:14 And I want to bring us back to the whole issue of the Coalition and only because like I said, I think we have shared.

36:30 A lot of time together that we have worked together. I sat at the table trying to look up think of solutions to help the faith community of all faith. We have both experienced. I believe more than dick might love me back. I shall just have been exposed more to other face and but there but the commonality between all the faces at is that they care about the issues of poverty and hunger and that's something that we share and it again to me. It doesn't really it does matter what you believe in but it matters most about what we care about together and how we can come together you've mentioned Unity how we can come together to address those issues whether it's

37:22 Locally state-level federal government level and that's what I would like to see as well. Yeah, I think and having part of having civil conversations with each other whether we're on different political spectrum is or a different phase is asking the question. Do you care about what I care about? And so you and I both care about hunger and so how do we work together to improve food Security in an inner-city? I mean ours is a very specific tasks the Dallas Coalition like upon a guy kind of thing. You don't listen to let the Raticate hunger all over the world, but in Dallas because we both care about that. How do we work together? And that's a huge blessing. I'm wondering. Do you know also I just came to me cuz I'll start having ideas about how we do things. But I think that you and I are from different backgrounds. We're very similar in ways, but I think Ellis

38:22 Getting that to others when we go out and we have we have

38:28 Events where we bring the faith food together. I hope that maybe we can help others understand how we work together and why it's important to us and to other face to do the same. I hope so too. I think it's funny to have me that when we told our colleagues on the leadership team of the hunger Coalition that we were doing storycorps. Did you know they all started laughing? I thought that was so funny it like I wonder why this is funny to be others like the Jana and Dabney show like we're going to do something we have stood up on the end and presented together and been kind of silly but yes, it's part of our relationship. So

39:11 We first met and maybe what your first impressions of each other.

39:16 I'll have to say that first because because when we I was helped found the Coalition and when we got to the point where we were having thinking about the faith community and how it works or that we needed other face. So I represented Episcopal Church in it. Everyone said that you had to have Janet Jackson. She had to be on the committee and I didn't know I didn't know you at all and you were from the Dallas Baptist Association. I was going how's this going to work?

39:48 I mean, I'm serious about that exaggerating a little bit. But but yes and then you are invited to join the leadership team and I maybe you can share that the first moments I can remember cuz it's it's been so long as they can. Actually we had lunch together. I kind of remember having lunch. I remember sitting across the table from you much like today in in talking and in finding out about our mutual interest in hunger as we were eating which we always find our own. But yeah, I wanted to say thank you for doing the interview with me Dabney. I post when I heard about this. I knew that you were the one I wanted to sit across the table from and talk. So thank you for doing that. Well, I appreciate being asking and I I think we're a lot more alike than we are different I do too.