Cody Keenan and Yohannes Abraham

00:03 Yohannes Abraham 30 years old

00:08 I'm in Washington DC in the White House currently and I am a friend and colleague of Cody cans.

00:22 October 19th, 2016

00:25 My name is Cody Keenan. I'm 35 years old today is October 19th 2016. We are in the White House and I'm with Johannes Abraham a friend and colleague.

00:38 Great. So Cody, I've had the pleasure of being on the same team with you for the better part of a decade and there's a few things that I've always wondered. This is a treat for me to just get pick your brain about. I guess let's start you've been a member of the president's speech writing team since the early days in Chicago during the first election and I'd be curious of your most memorable moments working for on particularly in this time as president.

01:10 Was memorable moments. Will they run the gamut from you know, the the fun to the difficult? I'll start with the fun. The 1985 Bears Chicago Bears came to the White House in 2011. That was a high point there going to be trouble with him places. I've never been before it's been a high point with especially with her meaningful. Like we went to Dublin Ireland in 2011, you know my Irish Americans that was that was very exciting.

01:35 Their moments like when a state of the union addresses over, you know that when you step outside the capital and it's snowing and now, you know, you can sleep for couple days things like that. How about you?

01:49 Go into detail about those women's step back. I should have showed it to those questions man thought out of time. I over-prepared for Charleston.

02:01 It's okay. I'll still bring it to Charlie Cole?

02:14 Turn they were a bunch of the for me. I was a junior speech writer in the first term for most of the first term. So my first oconus trip, which sensor outside the condo United States was to Dublin Ireland and there was President speed remarks there to crowd about 25,000 Irish people, which was does a high I was one of the first ones I was really excited about

02:38 And you'll be right there a beautiful sunny day and you know with intermittent patches of rain and it just started raining like right before he took the stage. He went to his ancestral Hometown, you know, not really it's just as great great great great great grandfather came from and money gone. He only learned this the president only learn this during the first campaign that he had any Irish ancestry. So so we we made that pilgrimage remember those t-shirts for the first camp and yeah the old with the Obama with the apostrophe in it. That was a blast and small things when you're with colleagues are the most fun. Like when we look at each other and say can you believe that we're here that this is happening, you know, even whether it's even like White House science fair or you know, visit from a championship sports team our steak dinner, or do when you cannot even after 80 years pinch yourself that you get to do this.

03:32 And their moments that are gratifying in the sense that you know, you've all worked really hard on something. I think the state of the union is one of those things where it's not this is not really just a speechwriters thing. I mean, it's something that dozens of people have poured countless hours into from researching to running policy council's to inviting people to the to the first lady's box to meeting with hundreds of different stakeholders. And you know, that's like the one speech of the Year where you no more than a hundred people afterwards going to take a sense of pride in that they contributed to that and then go home and you know, try to catch some sleep once it's all over.

04:13 You know, I am I totally identify with your trip to Ireland night. I went with him to Ethiopia last year and it was my parents are Ethiopian immigrants.

04:27 And it was one of the most emotionally significant.

04:32 Him a few days of my life of me a moment in time in my life. It was it was really special night. I didn't know if you felt this way. I didn't anticipate how impactful would be until we actually touch down here. Just thinking about I doubt either of our ancestors in Ireland or Ethiopia had a picture would be at and we have the opportunity to serve a weeder like this, you know, if there's something in your parents voice when you talk to them about this stuff. Yeah, there's a little tremble they're trying not to cry with pride but you know, it's there. Yeah, I know about been very fortunate my parents are there great about not calling every single day and say what did you do today? But you know, they desperately want to know so I try to fill them in on that. You're totally right. It's like you have a much better understanding than of your ancestry than I do. I mean my Irish ancestry goes back five generations, you know, they can hear the 1700. So I don't know anything about their lives, you know, just imagine that they

05:32 Leaving in boats watching the you know sure has received my dad right that the president's remarks and if you told them you do not cease to exist when they came over but if you told them that someday we would come over on magical airplane with a black president.

05:51 Did you always know that you wanted to be involved in public service? What was your sort of path to the White House during college in a bunch of different things which began with a spectacular flame out in chemistry and pre-med evolved gradually realized that the one thing I care about more than anything else was politics was watching from afar and then a friend of mine no convince me to move to Washington right after graduation. I stay with him while I was searching for a job and we once I get my first my first job was in the United States Senate of the mailroom intern for Ted Kennedy and that's where I got the bug, you know, not just kind of exciting West Wing style like, oh my God, that's Senator so-and-so, you know, you're going to Capitol security. The things are really excites you when you're a twenty-two-year-old, you know, like I saw it, so eating lunch today.

06:52 First gained from it was you know, you're opening letters from people from strangers. We're writing to a senator and in Ted Kennedy's case was often the senate or not their own but just someone that they trusted because they knew that you know, his brother President Kennedy and his other brother Bobby were always someone that's stuck up for somebody like them. So they did right to this man from all over the country not just messages. It's asking for help and to see that day in and day out, you know, it looks like a perfect strangers kind of hopes and fears and struggles laid bare on the page.

07:25 But he was very moving and it made you realize that this is actually important stuff. You know, it's it's crazy that we we've not talked about this but my parents actually they grew up in sort of Peace Corps Air Ethiopia in the you-know-where grew up with the the Kennedy name being a sort of a beacon for people around the world and they both me and I both had Peace Corps teachers when they're grown up and fly forward to their twenties and are in graduate school in America and there's a

07:59 A revolution in Ethiopia that made it extremely dangerous for them to go back and as they were navigating the process of applying for asylum on a total when they're living in the midwest. They were let alone not being voters at that time, you know, they were not even in Massachusetts and they wrote a letter to Senator Kennedy's office and some kid who had the same job you did but but in the seventies saw it and help them apply for a political Asylum if they were at granted and they credit that was saving it. I don't know that I love that. Yeah. Yeah from that moment on they were so, you know, they were some sort of passionate about the political system here in America cuz I saw firsthand that a good public servant can actually have a real real meaningful impact on people's lives.

08:52 Davis matters and I don't get too far off topic but like this stuff really matters.

08:59 One of the

09:01 One of the most memorable in an emotional week that I can remember being here was the week of the president's speech in Charleston.

09:15 You had you know some really impactful Supreme Court decisions on ACA. And of course gay marriage, you had some significant things happening on the hill and you know in the midst of all that sort on the tail end of all that you had the president faced with what at the time seemed like an impossible task of had to try to make sense and explain to the heal the nation's wound about what happened to those folks in the church and let me know before diving into this and I got a million questions about it.

09:52 Idubbbz love your overall big picture thoughts on out you and the president or how you're able to write while you're also grieving simultaneously cuz I'm sure these things that you know that you had to write for a lot of tragedies on trip and packs you both as people as because your thoughts on on how you do that at the same time.

10:11 What you at? There's if there's one thing that you know those of us in the speech writing team never imagined when we be coming to the White House. So I'll be writing so many eulogies for mass shootings and you know, they're all tough, but they're all difficult than emotionally taxing and you know, they're obviously all different I mean

10:31 You know, it's it's sad enough when you have a 12 people gunned down in a movie theater watching a movie or in a workplace or you know on a military base. But what about when 26 year old children are killed or you know, the trial someone else would special residents because you know, the racial undertones, you know, and I was going to ask you before we keep going on. I mean, I know how Newtown made me feel, you know, your black man in America. What was your first response to Charleston and that is a different kind of mass shooting.

11:12 I think it was in a I also and I grew up. My dad was a deacon in our church when when I was a kid and you know as a as a black man as someone who grew up in church and you had that is sort of an important part of being a pimp or part of my life that currently in was important part of my childhood to eat to Justice.

11:38 Aching

11:40 Pain and

11:45 I think that would be true regardless but you you add to it the fact that you know throughout American history The Church has been in the present said this better than I'll ever be able to but the church has been one of the few places where black people could always or for the most part always feel safe for the most part always at be able to come together and in fellowship and and your share in love and I just remember being this rattle to my core.

12:19 And you know, the guy had a lot of emotions about I grew up in Virginia. Gryffindor's Virginia Mia where he had a good chunk of the schools are still named after Confederate generals, and I currently live off of Jefferson Davis Highway in Virginia right now and you know growing up in the South you have a lot of thoughts about

12:43 Yeah, you be reminded me to least we're to go to the debates around the Confederate flag and the role that it plays in our current Society in and I'll tell you one of the things in in the president's speech that was that was most powerful never commented on the Moses he gave voice in a really powerful way about what that symbol means to to a lot of folks with a long way of saying it was it was one of the worst hurts felt in my life. That was not, you know directly related to myself for a family member. It felt deep it Doug personal in a way that I probably I don't know that I've felt that in and wanted a tragedy Pryor.

13:22 That's I think that's what made that one different is that it was personal and painful to so many Americans and I remember exactly what you're just describing them are the president add a line to a speech saying that the black church is a place where our dignity is in Violet. Yes, you know, it was a place that was a sanctuary for runaway slaves. Yes, and you know the barracks the footsoldier the civil rights movement and a place that is always been targeted by bombs and bullets and Terror and fear and it's the place where she would be safe. And then you would a people in a prayer group who welcomed in a killer who stayed with them for an hour The Stranger?

14:03 But the whole idea was so horrifying that you knew this was going to be different and I'll admit I didn't know how much faith I had in the country to be able to handle it. You know, we're coming back a little way. It's it's become a terrible routine every time there's one of these mass shootings, right? I mean, you know working here in the white house. We have the Situation Room monitors the news and we mediamonitors to do it. So every one of these begins with nowadays tweets, someone tweets that there has been a shooting him somewhere and you just kind of wait to find out if it's true how many people what the circumstances were it's as awful process that unfolds and I remember for Charleston. I was here. It was a Thursday night Wednesday or Thursday night.

14:54 And I was here late working because as you mentioned the Supreme Court was going to rule on more than one case and then when it comes to the Supreme Court, nobody knows when it's kind of one of the Grave bizarre things about Washington and then scotus Spring Court Season at 10 a.m. Each day and season they rule on cases and we don't get any heads up. I mean, it's full separation of powers. So we have to have anything with the present might say ready to go. So I had I was working on a couple different statements for a decision on the Affordable Care Act. On my team was working on a couple different statements on marriage equality and you have to have ready to go even if not coming up week. So I was I was there late at night when this process with Charleston started on them fold and when you saw the racial component, you know, who's going to be the Ashley bat?

15:47 And but something different actually happened that week as it unfolded rather than you know recrimination and blame something pretty extraordinary happened which was forgiveness. And you saw the other family members in court for gave the assailant and that was a really powerful thing and I I wasn't with the president who was on the west coast that weekend when I think he first heard about that, but I think Valerie might have been think so did you ever hear any story of how he learned about what happened in that courtroom know I am

16:21 No, unfortunately, no that's what changed everything for us. Cuz we were you know, he said after certainly after the Senate failed to pass background checks and only the place like the United States and its can you fail when you have 54 boats? How often are we going to go? Keep giving these eulogies mocc was angry that day that the Senate has completely failed in his responsibility.

16:51 For a lot of these eulogies have been opposed to the president going at first even though I know it's that part of the cycle where the president comes in delivers a speech that kind of heels together and that's sort of always kind of signified a moment where people can move on which I never liked and I've also never liked the fact that it seems like he has to go in absolve Us by Collective sin to do nothing about this every single time.

17:18 It's a boy when he heard about the family's forgiveness in the church was when he says this is what the eulogy is about about the idea of Grace. Yeah, and so we talked about it for a while in the Oval Office. I think 3 days before the eulogy and he gave me some ideas and said go get to work.

17:39 And how does that I'm just curious. What is that?

17:42 What is that look like he gives you the you know the outline or do you broil away for you know X hours. We called the download. I'll take my laptop in there and he will just do stream of Consciousness and I'll write it all down and then go try to put it together in the S7 back a little bit. What makes our job easier. I think the most speech writing jobs that he's already an extraordinary writer and that seems counterintuitive, but it is because he's extraordinary writer that he knows.

18:12 He knows how he wants his thoughts come out of the page. He is and he knows us well enough to know that we get it by now, but he's also very thorough with his edits and a suggestions.

18:26 And he's confident enough to know what he wants to say and he knows who he is. What makes it more difficult is that you always want to get him a perfect draft. So that's the part. We'll kill ourselves and stay up or two three nights in a row just to get him a perfect first draft even though he's tried to disabuse of that notion by me and the way he looks at speech writing is were collaborators. Give me something I can work with. I'll edit it give it back to you so that you can work with him will pass a few drops back. We don't listen to analyze that because we still want to impress him to do the best job possible. And I think you know if he had 48 hours in a day, he wouldn't want to have any speech writers that all he still do you always writing himself, but for something as complicated as is race, I struggle with us, it's tough because it's being a speechwriter you also, you know, rather than the episode with the written word, but you also have a sense of empathy which is being able to walk around in someone else's shoes identify with your audience and you can try and it's one of the reasons why any speaker to read widely together.

19:26 But there are times when it's impossible again. I was writing a draft of Newtown. I don't have children. So I do my best when I was writing something like Charleston. I don't know. It's like to be a black man in America. I did my best for the person I was giving a draft to does know what it's like. Yeah, he wrote a book about it. So he was he was able to work some magic with the draft into you.

19:47 The Firm for a big one like this, is it more collaborative with your team is it actually a big one like this. You just need to go and and be in a dark place I'm wearing and Hammer out of first. First cut both more the ladder. I mean I'll talk with a team-first rather than we've always found the right in collaboratively takes longer. Yeah, but I will talk at any speech first with the team jersey platten, you know, if either of us are stuck will talk through ideas with each other and it's a great way to break through writer's block in very doing and then but then you disconnect the lock yourself away. I mean, you know, as you know, well working here that the buzzsaw females usually slows to a trickle around 8 p.m. And that's when you can actually start getting worked on and I'm better at night anyway, cuz it just feels like the world gets a little bit smaller and quieter numb you can think bigger thoughts that way to State the obvious. That was I think it's going to go down as one of his best most impactful.

20:46 Speeches but just a little bit more realistically moment Civ.

20:50 Presidential leadership. I'll tell you why and I'm happy to admit this he is so I freaked out for a couple days writing a draft and gave it to him at 5 p.m. The night before the speech and went home to try to catch to get some sleep when I get a message from him saying he come back to the office around 10 p.m. And in just those five hours he had taken my draft. He completely crossed out the back half of it didn't even bother Ratatouille made that it's the first couple pages and just one big line through each of the last two pages and you completely Rewritten them in long hand on legal paper in 5 hours. He took you know, we discussed the concept you want to do in the office and I did my best with him and you know, I had a rift in the middle on the power of Grace and right there is where you stopped and cut the rest and took that idea and turn the rest of the speech into it while

21:49 Carrie Underwood wine roscato

21:54 No, let me know a lot of people eyes that speech I can't leave the reason I wouldn't answer that is cuz I don't remember now which are entirely mine, you know in which are entirely is and which were mixture of both. The answer is usually mixed buff.

22:11 Numbness when I don't there a lot of speech is where I can do that but the speech he the president view speech writing as in any speech as a whole. It should tell a story, you know, and he is always he purposely doesn't want that more than one line, you know, he doesn't care about which line goes on a monument which line is Remembered in whenever asked people what line would that be there? Really an answer? It's past me know either do either butcher the you know, they'll say Ready or Not red States and blue states which wasn't quite what he said. No for or they'll say yes, we can which we, you know lifted from Cesar Chavez, but you know sometimes Ben Rosen, I'll try to sneak a great line into a speech and the Press will cut it right out cuz he wants him to be much to go to Beauty speeches a whole especially something like the race speech or Charleston, you know, I I can quote from the race because I read it so many times but most people can't but they'd remember exactly where they were when they heard him say it cuz no one had ever spoken to us like adults about race before certainly not someone running for political office and that's what he's Beauty speech.

23:12 How do you know how do you know when you've nailed it or do you just not be just not know until you walk into the venue or sometimes? You know, it's pretty rare. I mean where you know writers are weird people weird. We're perfectionists aboard were plagued with self-doubt all the time. And you know, they're still speeches. I look at from years ago that I would do different things to now in edit in different ways Charleston once I'd seen what he done with a draft. I knew this was going to be something special and I stayed up, you know, pretty much only long making is that it's getting a new draft in the morning.

23:49 You knew was going to be a moment and then we can get back to the with a whole week was about later on but it was it was already an emotional weekend as it was.

24:00 But I think I knew when we were on our way to Charleston that was going to be something unique. I mean, he's the only thing that sets him apart is not just his talent at delivery or his language. It's that he has this depth of thought and curiosity where he wants to actually dive deeper into anything. You know, what he there A lot of times you can go places I can't reach and wouldn't you know when you handed me that back the draft and he had done all that work on his own actually apologized to him just because you know, it's my job to give him something he can work with and I felt like I failed at this point and he stopped me me to Pieology news. Like what I was told you were collaborators right? Give me something I can work with you gave me something I could work with you gave me the scaffolding and beyond that once you've been grappling with these issues about racing Society for 54 years and wrote a book on it. You'll know what you want to say to I mean, he just he knew what he wanted to say.

24:59 Now

25:02 When you walk into one of those Charleston being example when you

25:08 Walk into a speech that he's going to give and you know, the stakes are high and you know, who's been countless moments for the nation's Eyes Are Fixed On him this being one of them. How do you how do you feel is it in as it is it like a pro football player before a big game is in a play right before the opening night. What is the what's the feeling for you? That's a great question. Nobody's asked me that it's probably closer the playwright on opening night.

25:39 Sing Union addresses usually more like a football game this weekend or the thing that thing so many times where is ready to the field in rock and roll for something of you I'm working on right up to the last minute that's complicated high-stakes. Nobody knows what he's going to do like Charleston or Tucson. It's it's more like the playwright it's nerves and I love disappointed with the Charleston when he was still attending as we landed, you know, and took the final two pages with him to in the car. So I so I stayed on the plane to make that it's cuz it's just this much safer that way at least, you know, you're hooked up to the Internet and you don't know what's going on. So I stayed on the plane and Joe Paulsen the president's body man was calling in at-ats from a car as present was making them and I was making them into the laptop on the plane and then set it off and then I stayed on the plane watch the speech for something like the Tucson eulogy, which was different was that was the first big one he gave an air mass shooting in

26:35 United some different circumstances of congresswoman and is in the hospital and until that day people to know she's going to make it when we went in there. We have prepared that eulogy ass so eulogy, you know, it says mournful grieving with some lessons to impart but when we got there it was a raucous atmosphere almost like a rally it was in the University of Arizona basketball arena and people are wearing shirts and waving signs and we were not prepared for that and you can see if you can watch the video the president for the first few minutes of trying to figure out the crowd but then once he did, you know, he almost rode it like a rally and remember there's some complaining on the internet that night that you know, how dare we make this a rally it wasn't us, you know, but the people community it's grief. However, they want and it ended up working out. Okay.

27:27 Do the job see if maybe his most famous improvisation of all time happened in Charleston, which I think shows of shows a lot of things.

27:44 Can you tell if you're putting together speech the moments where he's likely to go off script or is it see the audience specific? It's it's fully dependent. You know, he said that that morning we are traveling to Charleston and he said, you know, I might cuz we we actually the full lyrics we're that without refrain written out twice in the speech earlier on and then towards the end and he said it was it was me Valerie. Jarrett Denis McDonough. I'm not sure and the first lady and he said, you know, I might sing the second one.

28:19 But I have to see if it feels right which is right under a lot of glass we words I said, did you write the in there sitting here? And I said no that cuz I would be I thought it wouldn't work. Now. You just have to figure it out. It's just like you do another famous have what we had was in the 2015 State of the Union Address where he said I have no more elections to run in Public Instruction. And he said I know because I won both of them if you would ask me did you write that in there too? And I said no, how would I know the Republicans would search here pretty much always knew he was going to sing. He just needed to read the room first and then I get in there and the organs playing in the guitarist comes out and they're playing music while he was speaking but I mean it was it was a black church and he was a preacher and that you knew he was going to do it.

29:13 How long did it in and I'm not sure there's a precise answer to this question. But how long did it take you to learn to capture his voice got the first internship in 2007. Listen to the both of his books on tape first to try to get him down and watch as many as I could but it was still I didn't fully get it for probably a couple years and that came from you know, Jon Favreau, Massachusetts writer the time teaching me as much as I could but it did it more came when I was finally, you know close enough to the president to get to work with him on things and figure it out then, you know, also take the time to study his body of work as a whole and see how it is changing. Hasn't already yours. One thing. It's been a cool for me to observe.

30:06 Is and I think this is true of yourself think it's true. Then roads are Deputy National Security advisor for strategic Communications. The thing is true for Jon Favreau are former.

30:16 Chief speechwriter is not only do guys understand is voice, but then I guess part and parcel that as you understand the way he thinks and seeing you guys in meetings on policy or how what have you you were.

30:31 It's a real asset have you in the room? Because there's a small a small Cadre of folks who have me on that level of precision of understanding his thought process and I imagine it's something that that AR goes past knowing that what he would want to see on the written page.

30:45 See it's interesting talking to you about it I can also see how annoying that must be in Toronto, when were in these meetings with brilliant policy wonks who know the ins-and-outs of every law and every policy and we're like no that's boring let's go Inspire some people have had some at some some rejected that is from you over the years by my I'm sorry for what I feel bad about all of them know they're there in service of getting a point across which you know you looked at things we wouldn't I think that I'm more than 3,600 speeches and savings for the president since he took office and this sad truth is people will remember a handful you know but doesn't a couple dozen if we're lucky most of them just they you know you got to push a story for a day or or get your message across and then they just disappear you know they live online if you search for him but people

31:45 Most of the stuff we bring I want to I want to come back to the week of the Charleston speech before I do and I'm just curious because they might play into my next question. How is the experience of being in the White House? Look for the full-time being in such close proximity the president? How is it change you personally?

32:07 That's a good question. You're the first and easiest answers that made my wife here. So I'm pretty happy about that.

32:16 It's it's helped me think like he does in a way and that he's he's always viewed history through a wide-angle lens, you know, he's these tried to think bigger than certainly are news Cycles. But but the moment and you know this see this in the Charleston speech to work, he views history as a teaching device as a manual that you know, we can use to

32:39 Not Natalie not commit mistakes of the past what to do better as we try to move forward and you know, I don't I'm not saying go to my daily life searching for history lessons, but but it has helped me Take the Long View of things and certainly that's true when you know in Washington we get caught up in the outrage of the moment or the another crazy gas or whatever someone said today and none of those remembered a couple months later, you know, let me know how many quote-unquote like scandals or bizarre things. Have we had to deal with over the past three thousand days that ended up being meaningless. So it helps you kind of appreciate what is true, I think.

33:23 Would you answer that be?

33:29 From

33:31 From a public service point of view I find myself.

33:39 I actually found myself less partisan then when I walked in there and just more totally and completely interested in just delivering results and at which is not say that but they not say I didn't walk in that way. But I know you mentioned the Senate not passing background checks when we had 54 votes. You see all these opportunities that are on the table to deliver, you know services are good policies for the American people and just so desperately wanting to him and I think I'm on the tail end of this leaving.

34:18 With a lot of fire my belly about wanting to see those things get done and see the protector.

34:24 Games that we made and make games where we didn't but I think my mice would have patience with her that you're sort of looting this my patience with the things that get in the way of that is extraordinary thing in a way that it wasn't the sort of Reno rigmarole of politics to gets in the way of delivering results for people that have a lot of patience for that and I did previously I'm also I have significantly less hair in Munds wife to get a Bernie Sanders supporters earlier this year and it's all about Revolution, right? If I'm elected. We're just going to do this and do that and do that. Once you're in here you realize painfully how hard changes how hard it is now, he dating through Congress puts change people's minds and, you know, even executive order process it didn't you do not just get to come in here and make college free, you know, and I we were swept up.

35:24 2008 to you know, we always got boxes. Like let this be the moment the ocean stop rising and will give health care of everybody and get what we've done the last two years I think is extraordinary and matched by few of any presidents, but it was a grind it is hard on a horned a much more cognizant now of over-promising anywhere.

35:46 Going back to the week of the Charleston speech.

35:52 You know in some what did that whole week mean to you. I mean it was it was it was a lot of emotions and many of them positive many of them complex between ACA decision in the Supreme Court's decision on marriage and then obviously the speech itself if there's if there's any 10-day span that I think his presidency began unlike our presidency began in with the worst kind of savagery and violence in the church basement and it unfolded in really unexpected ways with forgiveness and Grace and actual dialogue the Confederate flag during the Comedown, which was not something on our to-do list because we knew it wouldn't get done.

36:43 You're funny enough like we passed trade promotion Authority through Congress, which was probably the six most important thing that happened that week than any other Administration might be one of the biggest things in the ER, you know, that's the Supreme Court upheld Obamacare for the second time guaranteeing that being 20 million Americans will get to keep their health insurance the Supreme Court found a constitutional right to marriage equality to all the while. We're working on the different versions for each of these speeches were working on the Charleston eulogy and you know, the president goes out Friday morning in the Rose Garden to speak about the Supreme Court says no marriage equality of knowing that he's going to go eulogize someone. He personally knew a couple hours later.

37:28 Why is there he leads the country in singing Amazing Grace? And then we returned home to a white house that was lit up in all the colors of the rainbow. I was amazing. I mean it was a wee was a week so nuts that if you had given Aaron Sorkin a script for West Wing of I had the same thought it was the old was a week that actually felt like television because it was so much happening but it was too impossible. Now, this is not the reason I say that is because you know, the ACA decision that you know reporters in the precious me they say was a victory for Obama. It took a hundred years from the time Teddy Roosevelt talked about universal healthcare to get this done and only got done because of every different generation worked on it because all these organizers walked neighborhoods got people to sign up yet because people elected Barack Obama, you know, and you know, the gay marriage decision. He said sometimes just comes like a thunderbolt, but he also spend time in that statement talking about all the

38:28 People over decades set took the painful steps to come out and sometimes even more painful steps of accepting people to come out and you know people who accepted their own children and come to realize that they were wrong himself included and that's really what a capsule it's his vision of America is that we are always a work in progress and we started out on paper almost perfect. The ideals that all men are created equal a perfect course that wasn't always written the Constitution that way and we've had to fix it. But America is a never-ending quest to live up to those ideals to close that Gap and you can't do it all in one turmerone presidency the boy we got pretty close this time, you know, and that was a really rewarding thing.

39:12 I have just a couple questions if that's okay going back. How did you know that you wanted to be a speechwriter?

39:21 I didn't I know actually I was denied work in the center for 4 years almost four years in the doing policy towards the end and got the chance to write a couple things for Sandra Kennedy speech writer to ignore ignore script anyway, but I left and went to grad school to get a policy degree Master employee policy and the campaign came across kind of lightning struck up a woman named Stephanie cutter who would work with the Ted Kennedy's office New Jon Favreau and she connected us when he was drowning and he hired me as his intern Rises cutter. That's very good.

39:53 And is there a speech that you are dreaming too? Right? Yeah, this Chicago Cubs World Series champions.

40:03 You better be