Vincent Ramos and Juan Capistran

00:03 My name is Vincent Ramos. My age is 45 today's date is November 11th. 2018 location is Los Angeles, California? And my relationship to one is we are colleagues are colleagues. My name is Juan Capistrano. And I am 42 years old. Today's date is November 11th, 2018. We are in the city of Los Angeles, California relationship to Vincent's friend colleague fan.

00:35 So I wanted to talk about in kind of go back and revisit how we first met. I think I guess I I thought initially that we had met at school and undergrad at Otis College of Art and Design in LA. But in talking to my wife Hazel who's also a friend of yours, we remembered that I didn't meet you until it was probably 2004-2005 at an opening in Chinatown at a gallery called for f which I think I'm pretty sure we were both in the group show that the other at sounds about right.

01:20 I know that we were not I think I went to school with hazel. Yes. Okay. Yes, and and she was in a different program my thing, but we do know we knew one another and

01:34 I was probably familiar with your work before 2005.

01:42 Just from school and you know people leave and there's their spirit is still kind of floating around here and then probably through through being in the city and seeing things and stuff. So yeah, that was probably that was probably around that time and I did

02:00 There was a lot of people through for Ave that I meant that were Otis people but that were before me and I don't show up to do that. Yeah. I know. I know you guys did you guys go to grad school together? We overlapped I was there. My last year was his first year. Okay. Okay had Irvine. Okay. So yeah, so that that that kind of interaction, you know that was outside of school. Yeah, and I don't know I think it was interesting or I thought it was interesting how

02:36 Our lives our paths crossed and that we were at the same place at different time, but I've always wondered how you know, cuz I think a place in time really has a huge influence on you know, a person's ideas in how they live their life and us being artist, you know, I personally think the city of Los Angeles and its histories usually influences my practice and I think it does the same to you. Yeah, absolutely. So I think when when I found out that because at this opening back in 2004, I saw my art my high school art teacher which I blew my mind while he was there and then

03:26 Later, I find out like later that night. I found out that he was there because you invited him here. He was also your urine. This is all coming back to me now that I had forgotten about but yeah Marco be in there that yeah and I always to me Marco Elliot was a huge influence and becoming an artist in the ideas that I still believe in that the role of an artist is in society and you know as a Storyteller as a person that pushes ideas questions society and like, you know ass tough questions were so I think I was really Blown Away really excited that to meet somebody else that knew Marco. Right? Right, right. And you know, I always kind of wondered like if you share the same kind of feelings or if he had such a profound and I was down on you. Absolutely I came in

04:26 In the late 80s and he was already there and I don't know why he could he got there. I know his backstory was that he came from France and came to Venice cuz he was a mirrorless and he came of course to find the murals in Venice and there's this one mural on Beethoven and Venice of these giant. Whales that I have Margaret Garcia that you got a heart is as one of the paint with one of the people that painted that mural in the late seventies and he said he came looking for that mirror and he walked into this classroom and Venice and a woman their name to Mike Robbie. O was the teacher and he started talking to her and then ultimately fast forward. I don't know what the time frame was. But ultimately they they they got married and you know, they that's when they

05:26 And how they they met and then I guess through that Marco who was from France, but then now stayed in and lived here and they were married had a child. He he he got a job at Venice teaching a commercial art and I don't think Marco is

05:48 Whatever the word is certified or whatever has it, but somehow he got in through this weird back door and was you don't really qualified and had all this huge history working a commercial art and then doing all this kind of public art and all these things that he was brought in and and Joanne left I think went to Banning and then he stayed which is actually really funny because Joanne was my first art teacher had Venice and then she left and then the following year. I had Marco and Hazel who was in high school at Banning had a class with his wife while you're at later. It's kind of funny how like people kind of Our Lives. Yeah, so then he was there and at least in my experience there Venice I had

06:43 How I came in there and then I guess 88 or 89 and then I had a teacher who was there for a long time since my brother's time. I got a racial gawky and he was this older guy and he was like it wasn't even then like we're all the Arts were he just had his like his own class and I had that guy for a while. He was cool. He was real cool and and then I went to a woman named.

07:12 Name is Joanie minor is right next door. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, all I remember was looking at you know, because they had a room that separated their room which I guess was storage and you had that that old machine that kind of dark. Yeah. Yeah that camera of yea and yeah that machine was in there which was some ancient dinosaur with thing, you know, and but when both doors were open you could peer into his class and it was like the complete antithesis of like Miss Manners class like real kind of just I don't know. I just seemed kind of like everything was kind of like real straight and you know, you're kind of a academic and then why are you looking in there and it was like all kinds of weird like political foes? Yes.

08:12 Chaos in there buddy Berry, you know it as a young kid who was interested in our yard and you know, this teacher that I had was kind of doing he's like, okay, you know, these are cool type of things what he was doing seemed a lot more interest in knowing exactly what I had I had the same reaction. I think you know, cuz I think I started taking classes just regular like during the you know, the regular school week and then I signed up for Saturday art classes in love and partly was partly because I didn't want to work with my dad on the weekends cuz I had to work with my dad to let you know to make sure that we had enough money but at a certain point I was just like being rebellious and I was like, no, you know, I don't want to work. I'm just a kid and I realized that they were doing art classes on Saturday. So I started taking and I did that was the first time I met Marco.

09:07 And yeah, I had the same reaction. He was like this really vocal really political really interesting french guy that just wore his heart on his sleeve and you know just really spoke to a lot of things that I had just started to become aware of especially like falling the LA riots were like all of a sudden my political Consciousness was like really awoken, you know, trying to really make sense of the city my experience who I was right, you know being an immigrant growing up in South Central LA but being bussed out now to Venice High, so like just trying to make sense of this really chaotic World in then I'm introduced to this guy who's my teacher was teaching me about our that something to me my introduction to Art aside from like Elementary School being taken to LACMA and you know different museums, you know, I was into graffiti.

10:07 When I was into it when I got into junior high and I started doing graffiti and high school was also the same and to me graffiti was a way of like kind of protecting myself in the neighborhood cuz you never growing up and in these communities. It's like either you join a gang or you got to fend for yourself or or the other option was, you know, start doing graffiti in your in a graffiti crew. You know, what have you so that was my introduction to our dinner and then also my sister started. Do you know also taking me to museums and stuff also so with meeting Marco and in him teaching us about like murals and you know public card and just part in general and what you could do with that was pretty mind-blowing cuz again, like, you know, I'm a kid, I don't really know what art is except for what I've seen at museums and I thought it was just big paintings on the wall.

11:07 Yeah, exactly that sometimes didn't reflect my reality or lost any time and then he starts showing as you would take us on trips to spark. Okay, you know and and do all the in like shows like all these when I was around the city and this was my introduction to like the east side and the history of murals which for me like I had no idea what that like. I don't even think I knew what she got. No was growing up again and immigrant family traditional immigrant family and Nae Nae Nae Community where there wasn't many Mexican Mexican Americans like my friends majority of them were Central American poker because this is like around the time also when there's the influx of central Americans coming into to La so like

12:00 It's I think it's really interesting that this French muralist taught me about Chicano murals in La which you know, I think as in the LA artists are you know, that history is also important to understand into you know reflect on and you know and learn from yeah. Absolutely the same influence for me being in Venice and then you know, that was Venice High School. That was my school and and never really, you know, I was a kid so I never really went anywhere me know south of or are east of La Brea, you know or anywhere for that matter and because my parents are always working and it says wasn't one of those things. Now, I have a daughter we go places and stuff at back then I was like, you know, like on the weekends to I was just like working with my dad out in the yard and yeah, yeah, yeah.

13:00 You know, but with Marco, yeah, he you know, they had to sit in the same reaction, you know, the the term Chicano and all that get really kind of comes and that Discovery kind of comes through here, You know, there was a show called The Chicano art resistance and affirmation and he took us to that show and that I mean that really was a show that just like, you know, yeah that would like some heavy stuff you took us to another show to that was at the same place the white Gallery at UCLA that was about to the Vietnam War and and that was maybe right after that got a show but so all these kind of political things and you know, the function of art any you have turned it on at all the murals. I remember he brought a dimmable Dayo from the East wall Street's streetscapers talk to us and that's all these things that I just was not aware of, you know, he really kind of turn me on too and you know the same

14:00 I think it was like this french guy. I've started effort to turn us on to it knowing that we didn't really know this stuff. You know, it had to get an effort. You know, what I was at benison and probably when you were there too cuz you came right after you know, there was all the gangsta for the most, you know, there was a lot of things going on and I used to run with those guys into all my stuff that he was you know, he was always wanted to kind of keep me in the class as much as I could to keep me busy. And I know at one point I think it was maybe my senior year. I had like three classes with him. We we figured out some weird way that they had all my credits or something. I think I ended up doing the TV my senior year when I when I realized that I didn't no longer need to take like like calculus or like something like that cuz you know, I was like

15:00 I'm going to take all our classes my final semester in high school. And there was I don't know if you remember the the photo teacher Larry's. I took a photo class within a video class with them and then I took two are classes with with Marco. So yeah, my last year was just like just like trying to soak it all up because it's like a like a first-year college. So yeah, and then he was there for the 1st. That's how I actually find out about Otis cuz he had all these Art School catalogs Lawrence Arts Center and they were all they were all old baby. I'm like looking through these old catalogs Emily and he had one for which for some reason.

15:47 It's a got in my head that that's where I was going to go was I'm going to move to San Francisco and go to Art School in San Francisco, but that never materialized but you know one night it was my parents wedding anniversary and my brothers and sisters took my parents out to dinner and we went to La Fonda the Mexican restaurant off of Wilshire and MacArthur Park that's famous for the Mariachi shows and we're parking and we're walking to the restaurant and my sister Sylvia who had also taken me under her wing and started taking me to the Galleries and museums pointed across the street and was like, that's Otis and I was like, oh my God, that's the art school that had been reading in catalogs about and I had no idea that it was there. I just knew it was in the city, but I just never

16:42 Understood that it was right there, right and a couple months later. I ended up applying and I got you know back then I got a letter in the mail telling me to come in and bring my portfolio and had an interview with the admissions counselor and use like going through my portfolio. And this is like a physical actually had draw a drawing that you know, these little flimsy painting and he was like, you know, I like I like your your your your work you're talented and I think you'd be a great coming to school and you know, I think I didn't understand what that meant. You know, I was like kind of like what and then he's all you're a little behind you applied really late in the semester starts in three weeks. So you need you need to fill out all this other paperwork, which was like all the financial aid.

17:42 But yeah, you know, so I made it to art school and I think coming back around till like meeting you after undergrad in like reconnecting with Michael Elliott really kind of hit home and I always remember that night too cuz it's like one of the first questions he asked me after we saw each other and he was like, how are your politics the kids and he was making sure that I was still leaning left. I'm sorry to tell you but they're extreme laugh now, both of us getting upset really that right time when you know, especially during that moment in the 90s and coming off off of the riots. So I was I got out of here before the riots in the UK.

18:42 A couple years after but you know, whatever was going on teacher strike. It just happened in the late eighties. I was there when that happens a lot of stuff in the air remind me to pick I thought of that today with all these with all these fires going on here. Cuz that was another thing that kind of error of natural disaster. Yeah. We had the great the flood fires the riot. Yes set it out of it of course and then it kind of politics of the day and Pete Wilson and all these guys in California was Republican. If you know that there's a lot of parallels now to kind of what's happening. And so I thought about the vet today in kind of preparation for this was you know, how much you know, 20 30, yr. Whatever amount of years later. It is almost 30 years later. It's it's you know these at these things never go away.

19:42 Marco kind of showed us that artist that there's always a role for art is in that, you know at any given time throughout history, you know, you know, you know, he would show us real weird John Heartfield think Elijah is from what the fuck is Paris 68th. Eating is weird food. I'm going back to you like sophomore year undergrad Otis take my first like Contemporary Art Theory class and at some point we start reading about the situation is in May 68 and all of a sudden mark

20:42 Who made so much more sense like so he comes from this history resistance of protest of really questioning what it is. It's what your role is in society and you know, really like questioning the man who knows his dad even like

21:05 And I think is it's kind of interesting.

21:08 Because to me like I've had to teach you about three in my history like three teachers that have like really influenced me as a person and to Marco is one of them. I had a junior high algebra teacher. Mr. Johnson who was hugely influential as just somebody that kind of set me on a track to like really work hard and try and really understand where I am and where I'm coming from and just work harder to better myself and then another instructor Mentor was Jenna Joseph penis. So I think you know, I think it's really interesting how these individuals really they stick in your head come out and get it really like influence you and really

22:08 Kind of help guide and navigate this world that we live in.

22:19 The presence is always there and their their words and their dialogue and yeah, I think of the same thing, you know, like I just barely started teaching high school last year and you know, I think of that relationship that I had with him and you know, how big of an influence he was with me and remembering that you know, when I go into the classroom and you know, try to do my thing. Yeah because he was holding about Marcos, you know, that made him different was that yeah. He didn't sound like any of the teachers you course. You don't look like any teachers any kind of talk to you straight up what's going on like, you know that you wouldn't that you wouldn't confide in any other teacher maybe even your parents somehow he can get it out of you, you know it with some other crazy story that he had or something like that. So I kind of operate the same way in my school, you know, and it's like you don't, you know, I'm real serious about you know, what we're doing there in the art stuff, but they also know that you know, we could engage and have fun in here behind also talk.

23:19 About serious stuff and now he no here I am, you know in 2018 whatever and you know, once again like the politics of that moment which were when I was there was like the Gulf War and in the first Bush and Pete Wilson all these like kind of monstrous, you know, it is the kids are you know that and it's like kind of my obligation. I think the kind of

23:49 You don't get into a dialogue in like you have a crate projects where they because they have a lot to say and he was he was open to to really get that dialogue. I think you were you brought up something that's really interesting that I think back then I didn't really realize it but this idea that he he was different but you know, he didn't look or sound like our other teachers in high school, you know in a similar way that we're different, you know, then like the general population. I think it's really important when you have a mentor a teacher somebody to look up that is not you know, you're hegemonic white Rush, right? I think even though I would like you know now is like, you know, he's at that moment. It was like this different voice that legitimized your own.

24:49 Difference your own sticking out of Reno the herd or whatever. Yeah. Yeah. I know and I think it's really important to always have that, you know, if you are a person of color or right, you know, if you are an immigrant, but somehow, you know that there be somebody there that you know that reminds your or like or that you understand that you are also you also the longer that you you are important that you are. Okay, whoever you are, whatever you are you do, you know, and I think that's one of the other things that that I learned from him, I think and that it also like I brought over and carried over to like school like future schooling like Grandma and your guide

25:42 Was this idea that you know, I belong here right? Although I am you know, I was in the first in my family to go to college, but you know

25:52 You know, I am that, you know kind of like the Immigrant success story or whatever, you know that scene at my parents. My dad came here first for Mexico and then my mom and my three brothers and sisters. We followed like 6 months later. Okay, and you know, they worked hard, you know, all of us kids had to work with my dad and my mom helping to make ends meet, you know, we go off to college so that you know with a lot of Mena resistance against talking about, you know, the 80s and 90s, he knows people soon. And then there was also like the whole drug epidemic and you know, I grew up in South Central so I had to deal with it like gang violence and Drug trade violence and what have you to, you know, I think finding somebody like that at that moment I think about that a lot in

26:52 My life now as I'm older is I look back at those moments where things it said. It's a lot of those like kind of like if I had gone left instead of right, right, you know, where would my life be now? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, absolutely.

27:14 You know those were pretty interesting times in the city and you know a lot different now, you know, you go to tell Central Eye Group in Venice that you're kind of both places that are kind of notorious for yeah and south central zone Lottery South Central and South LAX all of these things happening. There may be on a lower level but you know, who knows what will happen in the years to come but now I think there's galleries popping up there now, you know his stuff like that, but I don't know if you know, but you know that you were saying, you know, because you know the past may be 5 or 6 years.

28:07 Out here, if you know someone I grew up where that was, you know, that's my age, you know, and you know that they die or they're dying and it's a lot of it is just like, you know, they survived the gang stuff. But now there, you know, the guy that delivers are shot as they have some sort of Health thing, you know how your heart attack or you know that it's like and then I can remember back that I bought it was always partying or whatever, you know always loaded and just kind of never stop man, you know, so I can have the opportunity to kind of go to school or the kind of just get busy doing some yard house and get passionate about something else or never know what that even mad at, you know, and so luckily we had that option to really kind of see these Alternatives and gas have these people in our lives and did you know how to Bear witness to life things, you know, and and really feel like I know you know why I am once again go back to marcona and other folks.

29:03 Going yeah, man, like you you totally capable of doing this, you know, it's just that easy to something for somebody just to be like you can do a to know if you think about the things that run TV back then was really kind of hasn't changed now, but you know you Beverly Hills 90210 type of way, you know, there's no relation. Yeah. Yeah. I can relate to see things and I'm just like, although I've had the privilege to go to school private Interruption to UCI for a master's degree, you know, there's

30:03 They're still moments where I feel so out of place and I have to like kind of kick myself her and be like, you know, what? No, I I belong here. Yeah. Yeah. I know. I might not like it but I might not be into everything that everybody else is into you, but I'm I'm here or I'm taking my space at the table and I'm going to be that grumpy guy that doesn't agree with everything that's being said, but I'm still here for a minute and and I think it still goes back to to Marco. I think it's really funny that this guy had such a huge effect and I always wonder like there's a couple a kid that I remember from classes and I always wonder like did he influence them away or was he just me? Cuz I mean, I still keep in touch with a couple of friends that I grew.

31:03 Up with that. We're also in his class at the same time. But his message just fell flat with them. Like it didn't resonate play artist. No didn't stick Arena. And and I wonder like what was it that that for me? It was like so profound and I'm going back again till I meeting you and end in seeing that he was also your teacher and and then over the years like seeing your work and being such a really big fan of what you do. I always wonder like, you know, can you trace it back to take a more cool? Who was it in his like that that really pushed or really like put it in your head, right? You know, this is something that that is important the alright because

32:03 About how you grew up at, you know drawing up an immigrant working class family. Although my parents didn't just like the yards or wearing against the yard. It was just something that wasn't like pushed. Yeah. I know they were very supported with me, but they couldn't help me with school. So I had to figure out how to go to school but you never said, you know, you should stop going to school right and I couldn't even get a real job or whatever is so yeah, so I always wonder like yeah, I think with it was my experience that with Chicago families have you know, if you got you know, if you work for the city or sub that you were like he was sad and

33:03 Once again just being exposed to all of these things and just being I knew what like charge me up which was like, you know, I love going to the library looking all these books and you know just seemed whatever you know, like I said seeing that got her show was like just blew my mind. And so then at what it would have happened was after I got out of Venice the following year as you mention mark one spark there was some sort of relationship there. So they were starting this program and called the cap program through calarts. And so then he said hey, you know, I don't know how he got a hold of me. I guess he called me up or maybe I went to visit him. But he says check this out. I still have the letters are too small, you looking for young artists, you know come this far can this is what it was when I

33:52 At the gotta show there was work there by Judy Baca and then I put the pieces together or she was she was spark. Yeah, and then when he gave me this thing off Sparky, do you know what I was in that show all my go check it out. It was literally like 5 minutes from my house. I live a group on the other side of Venice Boulevard Sparks on Venice Boulevard. So I'm like 4 minutes away 5 minutes away from my home and you know drove by it a million times, but never, you know, never knew what it was or whatever and so that I went there and then that whatever that you know that two or three years I was there then just took like a train left the station I was gone, you know, and I just never I just never look back, you know, like in terms of thinking of want to do anything out there was this woman. I'm a Lopez pretty well-known artists and they just brought in all kinds of people to talk to us this African-American or temperature Wyatt.

34:52 Drive to was a mirrorless and then then they had shows there and I met you know, and then ultimately I ended up going to school take me awhile. But I but I did it and I was mainly to Salamone he was showing with an all these functions and everything is fine. But and he was just starting to UCLA's that get you really need a third degree. Yeah, cuz you know, she's going to go down here in LA and he was right, you know, very very good.

35:27 So yeah it so access, you know, I think that's a very important thing is that you know somehow.

35:35 I realized that I needed access to a 2.

35:41 Or to get access to this whole other world that was out there. Yeah, right, you know now, you know the more education you got, you know, the more access you then once you kind of you know build up a relative amount of confidence than you like one give give it to him but it's like a while, you know is like doing all these programs. But you know, it was great because I got all of these these different, you know that all that. Even before our schools and education in and of itself, but it was to No, Lie was like happening, you know, if your spark it's like street-level, you know.

36:27 They're telling you yeah, yeah. Yeah, you can do this. You know that you don't need permission you special with artists man, you know, you're wrong, you know, yeah. Yeah, you make your own rules or no rules at my mom's place from the time. I was sixteen during the summer time every summer. They had me working at that. Was there a nice day loading boxes unloading boxes and I had all these delivery gigs in my twenties and I just hate straight up man. It's like I did I hated someone to let you know that comes from my old man my do you know my dad was in the military was a fighter so it's like when I work with him and it was like anything we would my dad's like he had me like remodeling garages and I was like twelve I'm like 12 trying to rewire like

37:27 Wiring with like keeping the power on and not turning the power off if you didn't want to disturb like the homeowners. So I'm like trying to like wire this being shot a man. Oh absolutely man, you know, you know, but ultimately all of those those that life experience is helpful, you know, but I'm glad that you know that I was still able to have the guts to kind of find my way in and break off and do my thing, you know, which I think is important than you know, I think if you look across the field that we're in and Contemporary Art, there's not enough of us and by us I mean Latinos Mexican American Chicana that are

38:18 In the Contemporary Art Royal right? So I think you know going back to when we first met. You know, I'm always excited to meet a fellow artist that is either from LA or had not as serious similar upbringing but somehow ended up at the same place that I you know, that's really like for me. I think it's amazing and it doesn't happen enough that the okay Ellie artist you a nickname in La artist, you know them from whoever a person on the street or someone who's in the know that I never share this and that but all those lot of those people most of them came from some of the play.

39:16 Yeah, so it's it's funny. You know, it's like yeah, that was my experience kind of growing up. Your nose is meeting people on the way like yourself and other folks that we were the ones that were in LA and and doing our thing and from day one, you know that our experience in our work is a reflection of that day when experience and it looks so different because especially with in the art world, you know, there's not a lot of our stories being told by another result our work looks like we're we're just completely like who the fuck is this? I'm actually really glad that we got to sit down and talk about our histories one side note when my parents and I when my family emigrated to La the first place we landed at was Venice in Oakwood. Wow, and my parents work their asses off to move out of Oakland A felt. It was really dangerous and we moved into South Central.

40:16 Absolutely. Thank you. Yeah, thank you one and it's always a pleasure and we'll talk with a microphone Zaroff man the flip the flip side. Thank you.