DeBorah Boneta and Adam Soltani

00:05 My name is Deborah Boneta. I am 55 years old. Today's date is October 29th, 2021. We're recording from Oklahoma City. I am interviewing with my partner and my inspiration over here. My mentor Adam soltani and we're co-workers. My name is Adam soltani. I'm 38 years old is October. 29th, 2021. We're going to Oklahoma City, Oklahoma. I am recording with Deborah Boneta, the most amazing superhero that I know Shero, right? You were like, I think the first most time of the year where you know, one of the first one, the first one of the first and we are colleagues and good friends for a long time. And so Deb, I'm going to

00:58 How often can I call you Dad for short? Are you okay with that? Perfect. And I never asked you before, I was just like, it's always been, you know, one of the things that I do, I tell my students at Oklahoma State University, or even when I go talk later. I went to Heritage Hall, which is, you know, the local Christian School here in Oklahoma City. And I was telling my story about becoming Muslim because I did. I mean, that's, that's the reality. Like, I was, I was born to a Muslim father, but a Catholic mother, and so I was not raised as a Muslim. I mean, I think, people often times assume that because of my dad. I'm actually my mom, you know, she became of Sam in 2002. So, I mean, that was really amazing in the end. I'll tell you about that in a minute. But, you know, you also converted to Islam. You, you were not raised in the faith. And I think, one of these people don't realize, there's a lot of challenges, like, when you're not,

01:58 Raised in the faith community and you search if you don't fit into certain groups, you know, but that being said, like, what what's your story? I mean, my story is a little it's Unique, right? Like I was raised by a Muslim father and a Catholic mother.

02:18 Void of religion for most of my life. I want the Catholic school when I was a kid. I just remember Catholic school. I can't remember much about it. I remember the nuns. They weren't very nice Halloween. They like, I got into a thing with another kid and he tripped me. Maybe kid tripped. Me. And I fell flat on my face and busted my nose and they blame me for it, right there. Like, oh, you had very much candy. Yeah. You too hyper, you know.

02:46 They were really mean, but the other thing that this is one thing that always stuck out because I went to Catholic school when I was kindergarten through second-grade. So one thing that always stuck out with me was that I had questions. When we go to the church, the cathedral I should say, you know, they start taking us I think first and the second grade because I want to get you used to that and then is your older. You actually go on a regular basis. And then I remember some of the older kids would, I don't remember what they called them Altar Boys. Is that the correct time, right? But I remember I had questions right? There were pictures on the wall with a blank of Jesus and all this, you know different things. Questions. I was told you can ask us questions, right? And for a curious young kid. You don't want to hear that right? You want to answer what an answer, right? Like you cannot ask questions like that. You just have to believe, right? I remember that. I'm like, believing what you did answer my question. Like, how am I supposed to believe? Right? Yeah. It's so different because you do hear you believe in Santa Claus.

03:46 Easter Bunny and the Tooth Fairy. And then they tell you to believe in white, Jesus has the same. So you're not at all.

04:01 I know. I know I said, I'd think about it. I don't tell him, Jesus wasn't while I asked him, but I asked him. Was Jesus a white, dude, not at all. Not at all. But some of them understand that those that don't explain. Look at where he was born. Okay, we're not talking about like, Faith or theology. We're just talking about the fact. He was born in the Middle East. There is a very, very, very good chance. He did not look like a white European, right? Was my issue was like, I had questions. I couldn't get the answers to. My mom. Also grew distant with the Catholic church, but she always kept a relationship with the Bible that she would read the Bible. So I admired that

04:50 Long story short, you know, I I my my interaction with Islam was very minimal before coming to Oklahoma lives in Kansas. No interaction with them. Some communion know, I never been to a mosque in Kansas and tell her I don't think I've ever been so lost and can't even, that's where I was born, Alabama. I have been to a few months when we lived in Alabama for for some years, but I never liked had this like connection with the face, but ironically hear the by happenstance. I end up walking into the Moscow on Friday to get my dad, you know, and he standing with Imam, suhaib Webb, you know, who is now for Muslims, in America, like one of the Premier teachers, that's the dollars of Islam. Love that, man. Write a huge motivator for a lot of people and he invited me to the Sunday class for youth.

05:45 I went out of reluctantly, like, I was really wanting to go, but my father saw that as an opportunity, right? So he took me and I tell people, I don't remember anything about what happened that first Sunday. I went to the Moss and we were talking about the Islamic Society of Edmond in Edmond, Oklahoma. I mean, probably a thousand square foot structure like teeny tiny. And there's about 20 teenager sitting in a circle. There's a dude with dark skin and a black beard talking to them and I'm like, where am I away from them against the wall? And for the life of me? I can't remember anything except that, the person who I came to know, as Abbot, who became my, his name was David and he became my mentor for many years. He talks about Tupac and Biggie, right? And you were hooked and you haven't yet?

06:45 Biggie, I'm like, oh gosh. And then I have to give him a whole course, on 90's, hip hop, you know, but the best. But I mean like, the, you know, I don't know who's popular. They Travis Scott up today, or, I don't know, Lil Wayne. I don't like either of those people, but he is a long story short, you know, he talked about two of the most prominent, you know, musical artists of the 90s not in a positive way. It was when I go out and buy the CDs or anything, is it? We don't want to emulate these people, right? We want to follow the way of the righteous people who came before, but the point was, he made a connection with me at a time. When I felt lost and I was searching for what I didn't know. I had just felt like I had lost my way. I felt like I didn't understand my identity. But yeah, but I mean it took time, you know for me it wasn't like y'all want to be Muslim it? What it wasn't like something. That was like. This. Is it from day one? I kept going.

07:45 I was just intrigued and I was asking questions and when I ask questions, the difference between my experience and this was just my experience, I emphasize that like I'm not saying I'm not blaming the Catholic Church, you know, or the priest to one answer my questions. I'm saying that was my experience, you know, but my experience in the mosque was I was getting answers to the questions and that I felt like the scripture. The core on was accessible to me, right? And then when I when I got introduced to the five daily prayers and students asked me like, what was the biggest change for you? When you became with some essay structure? It gave me that I lacked do for me. I told my students and and I felt when I speak in public, I tell people that when I became Muslim, it wasn't like this Epiphany, you know, moment. It wasn't like all the sudden. Aha. I figured it out. It was just gradually, it grew on me and I felt like, man. This is it, you know, that's all I still make that decision every day when I wake up to pray. Fudger you

08:45 Morning prayer. When I, when I commit to doing something that is, you know, required of me or encouraged of me by my religion is staying away from that, which is not good for me. According to what is in the core on the scripture or prophetic tradition, as I'm making a choice everyday. So it's, it's a constant battle, especially living in the United States of America where we have access to everything. So that's kind of what happened to me. Like I was raised in this somewhat religious atmosphere and then I was intrigued by by something and I just started following it and I feel like it, just egg rolls, you know, you grows on you, but you have to grow on it. So, you know, so say like you have to make the effort and then the religion does grow on you right now to where it envelops, your heart in a positive way and it really does. So I actually didn't know a single Muslim when I became Muslim.

09:44 I'm so the popular ones like Muhammad Ali, Muhammad. Ali is a boxer. You know, I Cassius Clay, you know, I knew him as an African American Icon, but you know, his face was, was totally totally on me. And and might I add, I was 39 years old. And so, you had lived overseas. My parents were military, my father, then we moved to Oklahoma and we were like, where in the Sam Hill is Oklahoma. What why are we being punished? And so I got married, I Married an amazing man, and he got sick. And so we were in a restaurant eating and someone up at the counter. Had some literature about Islam and so he picked it up and he brought it home. And you know, I vaguely remember some kind of little conversation. We had that night at dinner and we were

10:44 We were like Christian. So, I grew up a hardcore. Christian, parents gospel singers. My son gospel singers, you know, we call that drug, that church drug the Sunday School drug, the Monday meeting drug to all the stuff's up, you know, I was in the choir on the Usher board. You do all of these things. There was always something in the black church. There was something to do everyday that you were not going to get away from. You know, that I'll but going up. I did have questions. I wanted to know about why Jesus, I wanted to know how you could be three in one. Why did God need to have a baby in? There were just all of these things and

11:27 That went around in my head and much like you. They will question that warm at stop asking questions. Sit still take the gum out of your mouth, be quiet, you know, kind of things are. So I never really got an answer and so fast forward to 1999. My husband passed away and the absolute love of my life. And I was mad at God. I was livid, what you went through a very traumatic experience. It was horrible. So I had actually been given six months to live in 1999, then so my medical file said I was terminal and so we had done all the paperwork and everything for my husband, to raise, the three kids that we had. We had three little ones. And I'm so we filled out all the paperwork and Thanksgiving Day. He coded and about midnight, little after midnight, he passed away. And so, then I was left with these kids.

12:27 And lots of questions. And so I remember, even in my anger, I couldn't get away from Faith. Where is spirituality because I would pray, God, please protect my children. Give them peace, you know, as a Christian, you know, that peace that surpasses all understanding, blah, blah blah, but I'm not speaking to you, leave me alone. You know, I was just angry and this went on for a while. And I remember going to church one Sunday. I took the kids and I was just going to drop them off and go back home. And something happened with one of the girls and I had to go in and I went into the pastor asked me was I coming to church and I was like, no. None to do what you and your God. I'm angry, you know, and I stormed out.

13:14 And so my sister invited me to her church, because then I knew is about Ed been about a year and I knew there was something I needed. I knew there was something missing in my life and I need it. All of these questions that I had asked over all of these years. I needed them to be answered for me. And so I went to my sister's church and I'm sitting there and this.

13:35 So call Pastor was sitting there and he was giving the sermon. I will never forget, and I'm sitting here with my three kids, who, you know, is still trying to adjust to life without daddy and his sermon was, if you don't have enough Faith to bring the dead back or keep your loved one for dying. Then you need to call one of the Elders of the church. If your loved one dies, it's because you're not faithful to God, you know, so my kids look at me and I'm like, don't look at me. We prayed, you know, and I got up and left in the middle of service. I was just living and so I left and I didn't go back to church for a while and then send the kids back to church and I was cleaning out one of Charlie's drawers and found the Islamic stuff in the bottom of his doors and I hadn't cleaned out or taking any of stuff out the house in over a year then. So I found this stuff and I read through it and the information in these little brochures, easel tracks and in the Quran that they gave

14:35 It just resonated it just lit up something in me. It just for the first time. I really felt alive about what I was doing and I wasn't following the face of my parents. I this was mine now and so I remember calling the mosque and saying, hey, I think I might want to be a Muslim nowheres, which monsters I called is g. O, c h, u b. O w. A email and Chelsea and he says, just come comfortable. Well, I'm thinking. Okay, so I'm in my grandmother's words. I thought I'd wear my Sunday go-to-meeting clothes, you know, and so I wore a knee, length skirt and a shirt, and a little blazer, and I walked in the door, and I have to say, I was really disappointed because no one greeted me. They looked at me, like I was from another planet, no one.

15:35 Spoke. And then if I was sitting on the floor and I'm like, okay, I can't sit in the floor in this, you know, I I I can't do that. So I left and it was probably 2-3 weeks later that I came back and there was an elderly lady in the back. She must speak any English, not a lick of English. And she came over and just took me by my hand and took me over to the carpet. And I sat down at work pants that day and and set me down and then she went on to wherever she was going. And

16:10 I listen to the Hood by that day, and it really resonated. So, I went back maybe a week or so later and did my shot on my Declaration of faith, and I became a Muslim and life changed in several ways. For me, at that point. I'd always been a spiritual person. I had done Ministry work before on my job. I was so excited to be able to tell people that I had found this new path. You know what that it was for me, you do not convert me to bother, you know, not to put you in a headlock until you what you have to do. But this one for me and I was super excited about it. And so it, my job. We used to have this. I'm Wednesday prayer. Luncheon. Will you just bring your brown bag lunch and we sit around and we talked about maybe the things that God has done for you that wait or something that you wanted other people to pray with you for or something like that. And so I've got to the door that day and I saw a big black. I've always been very Afrocentric and so African head wrap.

17:10 Can take lots of stuff like that. We're just a part of my wardrobe. So my head was usually wrapped in like an African American style. As I had started donning, a more traditional hijab at that point. And I remember one of the girls stopping me at the door and telling me I was not welcomed that. This works for people that believed in the Lord, and I couldn't come in and I was like, woah,

17:37 First of all, I started this ban me from my thing, you know, but secondly, I was hurt and no one in the room, you know, I kind of looked around her into this room of all of these, what I thought, we're believing women, you know, and no one stood up for me. No one know if nothing else. I would have expected them to come in. Let me come in so they could pray for me if they thought I was making the wrong decision, but they shunned me. And one woman that I really looked up to couple weeks later asked me out to lunch. And so we went to lunch and she said, you know, I just wanted to tell you that, you're no longer welcome in my home, as for being the Lord. And my house, we will serve the Lord and we don't let demonic spirits and, and stuff going on in our house. And I just wanted you to know that you are going to hell.

18:24 And I was like, okay. Well, then I'll order something a little more expensive on them. It's so on my mother's side of the family, almost a similar experience. You know, I think, I think for those of us who were not raised in the faith and we have either our entire family, are we have parts of our families, aren't most of them and I I do and I still do, you know, because I was raised in a mixed home. We got the Catholic and then the most some side and then my wife comes from my most, some Catholic home, you know, I mean, listen to some Christian home, not Catholic specifically, but, you know, there are going to be tensions and challenges there. I mean, when holidays roll around, what are you do? I always tell people. I'm not going to give you a Christmas gift. You can give me one of my wife's like that's mean but I mean, unfortunately,

19:21 My grandparents.

19:24 In particular, my grandmother's, I got to be clear because I think my grandfather is is, is I think he's more understanding, you know, but my grandmother and we tried, man, you know, I always wish things could have been better with her. But unfortunately, she passed away thinking that we were doomed and we were destined for hell. Because number one, it wasn't about Catholicism. That's not the case. Because I know a lot of great Catholic people that are friends of mine and that have at least never profess or, or made me feel uncomfortable, never professed any types of hatred towards me, but, you know, the church in particular, my grandmother went to and coming from a small town, in Kansas town. I think it was just the environment and she's like, really try to convert me back to Christianity and Catholicism halftime.

20:24 Remind me to church on my first wyona already. Couple Bible second with my friends, right? And dialogue. And having you know, respectful relationships with people of other faiths did not compute to her and unfortunately it eventually the relationship is completely, you know, cut off and she was not willing to have

20:51 Peaceful relationship with her own grandson, you know, because of the faith, which is, which is really tragic. But I think that's something a lot of a share in common when we're not. So my mom would not even. Let me wear hijab in her house. I remember. And I remember going to my mother's house and her stopping me at the door. And her words, not mine. Take that damn thing off your head. You are not coming in the house with that and thought it was tough. It was me. It was really hard because, you know, you want to be obedient to your mom, you know, in the Bible, it said, raised, you know, honor your mother and father that the days might be long. Okay, my dad used to add to that and if you don't in this house will cut you short. So, you know,

21:34 I didn't want to be disrespectful but I have to be obedient to what I, I believe that I want to know what the last for me. So I will just wrap it up in an African head wrap. And even though it would be 120 degrees outside. I put on a turtleneck, you know, I'm but knowing, you know, and when I got to my mom's house so I could take my scarf off inside the house, but my mom was really, really angry and so hurt. She was she was really, she was devastated as she cried and cried and cried and they're still even now my mother, and I go to several places in, we speak to my mom converter from Catholicism to Christianity and then I converter. And so, and then she became a southern baptist. Oh, and so a big difference.

22:29 It was different from my mom. She she was ever my father passed away before I became a slim. And, you know, she was worried about the kids and you know, how I would raise the kids and would I get a Muslim husband and I did. Marry some person and very quickly. We had a child surprise attack and

22:59 She was.

23:01 Will put it, delicately a different individual. And his version of Islam was not one that I think anybody else follows. So, when I had the car e, you know, within three days of having him, he had a massive stroke and they said that, you know, he probably would not make it and if he did, you know, I was going to be lots of problems and I remember someone coming in and I had him at a Christian Catholic Church, Mercy Catholic Hospital and 4:30. Someone came to me. I don't know if it was a caseworker cuz everything was really a blur, the car had to be medflighted. And so, you know, trying to get all this together in my head and his father said will, is it going to be retarded?

23:53 And the doctor and I just kind of looked at each other cuz you know, how did daddy respond to that? And the doctor said he is going to have major hurdles to climb and my husband took off. So now I have four kids by myself and a Muslim. And I remember one of the pastors coming to me and telling me that was my punishment for being a Muslim.

24:19 That's a very insensitive thing. You know, that's that's the thing that I don't understand about. I've never understood how people who profess to believe in any faith. But okay Christianity in this case, right? I have that experience. You have that experience.

24:37 How can you profess to believe in Christianity? Jesus Proclaim, love ride for others and that's something that Christians preach all the time write love thy neighbor and you know, spread the love of Jesus. Yet. You can say such hurtful things for what, how could you love the Lord and think that he's like playing whack-a-mole with people? And I mean it was, it was so ridiculous to me, but I I really in that moment. I had to find a slime for myself, so I never felt

25:14 And I guess if I'm being honest, still don't feel 100% comfortable at the mosque. And when I say comfortable, I don't think that anybody is going to harm me. Or yeah, they're not going to dunk me or her even like that you do. But I'm used to the Southern Baptist Church and running. You walk in the door at the church, all baby. How are you doing? And you know, there's an usher to see two people to greet you, when you feel welcome and right from the moment, you hit the door, you feel this love in a mosque, you know, you come in the back door, the side door, where the women come in, and you just find a place on the carpet and you're quiet. There's no amen. Hallelujah boy, you better preach. And so it was a cultural change for me. But in that moment when I was alone with the car, you

26:06 I had to find my own faith. I had to find a less pain without love for myself, right? And know that I wasn't going to need to depend on. Anybody is culture or anything else that it was going to be me and the Lord that got through this together. And I think that's where I really really settled into my face because it's mine, right, you know, we all have those moments though. I think where I mean, it's not like I said, I'm happy came with some twenty twenty some-odd years ago, right out. I think it was like 17 years old because I don't remember the exact moment by. I constantly say 17 years old, but same thing, like, for me, I became lost them in the late 90s and then 9/11 happened, right? And then 911 like it's it, rocked our world and then all the Islamic phobia and anti-muslim rhetoric and hate that followed it. So I feel like I had to ReDiscover my face.

27:06 Many times over in the specially and I would say from like the year 2001 and sell at least I would say 2007. I probably had to ReDiscover my faith on on multiple occasions because, you know, as you mentioned, you know, you're introduced to something that's a completely different culture. And even though I was raised by mohsen, father, my father was never one of the people that went to the mosque on a regular basis and he was more like to eat most of them, you know, they would show up on a need and stuff. But that part of that has to do with the fact that he lived, he was born and raised in a very secular Iran before the Revolution Islamic revolution. So he was never all the varied about his face was never like, you know, into going to the mosque, a lot of stuff like that. But I feel you when you say, you know, even for men, you know, I think that's not talked about sometimes.

28:00 How uncomfortable it can be going to the mosque, you know, because you have to deal with all these cultural differences and then people criticizing you asking you questions. And then on top of that for me, I'm do people always look at me. Like I'm crazy when I say that I'm very introverted. I really am. And it's not because I don't like socializing. I love socializing, but it drains the heck. Yeah. I know. I have to go home and be alone to recharge and I often times sit in a quiet room and my wife. I think she thinks I'm crazy because she's extroverted, but I, that's how I recharge myself. So, when I go to the mosque, I don't want to talk to you like I'm the opposite. Like, I don't want you to grieve me. I don't want to talk to you. I want to come, and I want to have that Solitude. And I want to connect with, with my Creator, and I want to pray and I want to Center myself for me, this social things that occur in particular in the, you know, I say the Moss.

29:00 Screamer's still male-dominated. And so I think the men are pretty social there to me. That's a distraction from why I showed up, right? So, to me, when I enter the mosque in, Americus, like I'm escaping the distractions of the world. I'm escaping the materialism. I'm escaping, any temptations that exists outside of the, the walls of the mosque, but then you get hit with all these things. The socializing that the cultural difference is, sometimes, I don't even get me started on to bleed them out, you know, you know, I called like Pakistani missionaries. I really just what it is, right of a Christian Missionary, but you already in the mall to go to the mall and tell him that I will ride, you know, fine and even that is different. I remember so, you know we all

30:00 So that I'm not a timid person. I'm not shy at all. And so, I remember going into the mosque, and someone telling me of sister. You have to go to the back door. How you doing? My quick response was, my people haven't come to the back door in a long time. And I walk right through the front door. I like Rosa Parks. She did not give up her seat on the bus. I'm learning. You know, I would have been came with my did not give up my Petty card, but I'm working on it. I'm working on a minute, will you know, I think that's also a good thing like I think this concept. So there's this concept in, I think many religions, but it's not particular, you know, of being humble and having a sense of humility, but yes, to a certain extent like right in front of, in front of a lot in front of God, you should be humble. You should have a sense of humility, but it doesn't mean that you just let people walk all over you guys. I think that's one of the challenges that

31:00 We as, as Converse face, right? It's like, we want to be humble when I have the sense of humility, but then people try to walk all over us. Now, has the most of the mosque in America with the exceptions of the original ones. Right? Like the, the ones that were found it back in the 1950s and 60s as Nation of Islam temples and later converted over to Orthodox. Mosque under the leadership of Imam, Ali Muhammad, right outside of that. Most of them are dominated by, you know, the Arab culture, stand up a culture and I'm sorry, you can't tell me how I live my life. As far as you know, trying to profess Islam from your cultural perspective. Do you want to correct me if I'm wrong in many years ago? When I was a young new Muslim, I walk in the mosque and he tries to tell me.

31:54 Did the prophet Muhammad didn't wear jeans and a ball cap and he's wearing corsets traditional closed. My dad looked at me and said is that your Corvette outside and he was so happy with it. Yeah, that's on my Corvette. That will the prophet Muhammad didn't have. They either go get a camel.

32:14 And, you know, I think some of those cultural things are, according to my children, what really drove them away, you know, my kids were young enough to make a decision, right? To be Muslim or not. And there was just a lot of things that were hard to swallow and behaviors that were difficult. And that was, when I learned, you can't do me and screw me over in the name of assalamualaikum. Wow, that was, that was a hard pill to swallow. But, you know, there are so many great people in the community. And I think from me, the social aspect was, I didn't know any other Muslims. There was no Muslims at home. I didn't have any in my family or anything like that. And so I wanted to learn and I wanted to learn how to behave as a proper. Proper Muslim woman. And what were the interactions? I should be doing in the things. I should be saying and fries and stuff like that and and more than a new Muslim class.

33:14 You know where you learned about the faith. I also needed to learn how to behave and I didn't have that. So I was looking to the women in the group to, you know, show me. Okay. What am I supposed to do? What am I supposed to say? How am I supposed to say it? How do you interact with men? How do you know, what are these things? And there wasn't and isn't, you know, class for that. So I have a group of women that I mentor, and that's what we do. We talked about the conversations and are we have the conversation that no one else wants to have? You know, can I do this with my husband? Can I do this with my husband? How do I find a husband? That's the part of the prophetic tradition, right? Like you had those conversations with men and women of his time in and women, right? And something had occurred where you know, 1400 + years ago. These conversations are being had by the prophet himself, and now people don't want to have

34:14 These conversations with subject, right? And then it I think that's what led to a lot of issues within our community is that we want to not talk about things and that's not prophetic tradition of my father used to have this phrase and he used to say you can be so Heavenly bound that you're no earthly good. Wow, that's deep and I think a lot of us have become that. I think we have become so Heavenly bound that we're not good for the people on Earth, you know, we have become spiritually, dead and we are just this Gang Green that's looking to infect other people and I think that it takes people that want to have these really true conversations. And sometimes our conversations are hard, you know, there's been things in Islam that, you know, I know that we're supposed to do according to our faith and that's a hard conversation for me to look in the mirror and say, okay today. I really don't want to wear hijab. I really just would like to go out and feel the wind in my

35:14 Are, you know, or I'm in a hurry and why do I have to pick her up? And why do I have 50 million hijabs? You know, why do they make so many colors of the green, you know, well, that may be another issue altogether, but you know, it makes me think about it, like what you're describing. I feel the same way. Like, I mean, praying five times a day is not doesn't come naturally. Like, you know, it takes commitment, you know, fasting during Ramadan is not easy, you know, I mean, there's so many things we can mention, but it always, I bring it back to the, the idea, right. The religion of Islam is not just merely a religion. It's a complete way of life in that sense of Islam means, you know, submission to God, right? Like a TV in a sense of peace and Tranquility by submitting to God. And that's where we fight against those, you know, those inclinations to not want to do things are those desires or our weaknesses. So that way we can live a life of submission is a process.

36:15 Recognize that. And it's, you know, sometimes it's it's difficult. But I think do I want my difficulties in this life, over a scarf or long sleeves in the summer? Or do I want my difficulties in the next life where I will either be in heaven or hell. Wow. And so, you know, this life is so short things are so short and so, you know, it has made me. My mother who is still Christian says that she's a better Christian because I am a better Muslim and in that I've learned to slow down at a red light. If our green light is somebody in front of me doesn't go as soon as it turns green and you don't maybe I'm being spared from an accident. That would happen if I just took off or you know, my son who's now a quadriplegic.

37:05 You know, looking at the life he has and how this little boy can open his eyes every morning and mile the biggest, you know, just fill the room with love smile and I called my other home than in that baby. You know, I'm 40 plus surgeries and this child still finds a way to smile and I think if he can endure everything that he endures, what's wrong with me and now why can't I accept, you know, things that I can't change and sell him to lie, lie about it and it really charges me to be better. Most a better most, but I've also, you know, people like you and even some of the people that we work with these people that are energetic and serving a lot of time with Allah in the way of serving others. I think that's what invigorates me. Yeah, you know, I want equal or better for other people than I want for myself and that such a powerful life-changing thing for me, that I will always.

38:05 Always with my last breath in Shala strive to serve someone. I guess that's deep. Yeah, I feel like

38:16 We can wrap up. I was actually leaning into wrapping up.

38:21 Yeah, I mean talking about service. You know, that is I feel like where I found my faith right? Like I really I mean, you're right. I think we all come to a point where like have to figure it out for ourselves because I remember one of my friends once I'm said, I'm glad I learned about Islam before I met Muslims otherwise, I might not be one right there. A tendency to mess things up, right? Where we're human beings. But the actual message when you learn about it and its pure State, it's hard to argue with that, right? Whether you choose to believe or not, but you don't get all the, you know, cultural baggage and all that kind of stuff. But you know, for me, it's the same thing. I mean, the service being able to serve others, the reward, you get from serving others, but also service to others as a means by which, to live your face. That's what keeps me going. And I feel like at the more, the older I've gotten the more I have.

39:21 Read and understood the prophetic tradition and a life of Muhammad. Peace. Be upon him. The more I realized that was his life to like, he lived a life of service. And what we have is most of the mustn't have gone away from that. Yes, and those of us who are doing service. We're trying to follow in those footsteps. So that's what keeps me going, you know, and that's what keeps me focused. That's what keeps me grounded and I feel like, you know, serving others combined with being able to pray 5 times a day and read the horror on those things like balance each other out and keep my head in the right direction. As we wrap up our conversation.

40:03 What would be?

40:06 A piece of advice. Like if, if you can only say, you know, something to somebody who was really searching for Faith, and maybe they heard about Islam or they kind of pain it and they just don't know what to do with themselves. What they like a really really searching. What advice would you give them? Like, what would you tell them? As far as you know, this is how you can find the answers you're looking for?

40:29 Wow, that is, wow. So I think I would tell them to dig in it for themselves, you know, to really pray for her diarrhea for enlightenment for understanding for

40:45 Don't look at other people don't lose, you know, someone of the things I'll say that was difficult for me. As I thought, when I first became a Muslim and I talked to other African American Muslims here in Oklahoma. And our concern was, would we lose our, our culture would? I lose who I am. Would I be able to continue to be this afrocentricity?

41:09 And the answer is, yes, you know, Islam will not do away with your culture where it does not conflict with the faith. And so,

41:19 Islam is a way of life, it's not I don't ever look at it as a religion. I grew up with seeing me Christians Christmas Mother Day and Easter. And so this is a complete way of life and it answers everything. From the way, you wake up in the morning, to the way you lay down at night, the way you walk into a room and everything is in order. And it's laid out so perfectly and it is such a common sense, and loving religion. You know that if you were lost in you needed something, this is it be now, but you have to tailor it for yourself. It's like a a bolt of fabric, you know, you will Stitch it up to fit you, you know, and it tells you the instructions of how to stitch a sleeve and how to do this. But this is such a perfect and comforting religion. I have had an extremely rough, 55 years of life.

42:19 This planet and it has been fraught with disaster. And the piece I have is this religion? Beautiful. Yeah, you know, I think of saying I've heard before that Islam is a recipe for a beautiful life. It's not the results, right? So it gives you the recipe and then you decide what the result will be. You know, and I agree with you. I mean, I think all of us have had challenges within our lives to different degrees, right? I've had moments of my life that I would call tragedy, right? I've had moments of my life that have been Triumph ride. So, I think we all deal with those ups and downs, but Faith keeps you grounded and keeps you focused. And I've had people come up to me before me, like, how do I know what religion to follow, right? Especially because I teach world religions and stuff like that. I said, I can't tell you that. I can't tell you that because well, first of all, I'm your teacher. So I'm not supposed to tell you that.

43:19 More importantly. I feel like that's an answer. You have to answer for yourself. Right? Like if somebody tells you the answer, you're not actually figuring it out for yourself. And what's in your heart and your soul. And I think, the reason I am a Muslim today is because I figured it out for myself. Nobody forced me to write as what I tell him, you know.

43:40 You get educated. You learn about religion and you find the truth and what you learn and you follow it. And you know, I'm a huge fan. And advocate for the life of Malcolm X. I've read his the autobiography by Alex Haley dozens of times. I've listened to the audio book several times. Gosh the movie, who knows how many times, you know, but if we dug into his life and watch, his interviews interviews with his wife, with Betty Shabazz with the his daughters. And what I see about his life is that he followed the truth, whenever it came to him, but he never stopped searching and having an open mind. And so that's what I tell young. People. I say, keep learning, and keep searching for the truth. No Inn in that true, that has to be delivered in a way that people can receive it. And so Malcolm X and email to help with

44:40 Are the two people I really look to one of the reasons I loved m e Man. Web was he's a real person. Yeah, you know, I was on a call with him recently and he was talking about, you do southern food and basketball and, you know, he's so real. But, you know, I'm he served this up in a way that you can receive it, you know, the language of the people. Yes, you know. I think we need more of. We, we do need to know the sooner. We do need to know of the Legacy in the history of the prophets in the companions, but we also need to have it every day, you know, so my grandmother makes a butter pound cake from scratch. Wow, sounds good. Now it is amazing, but it takes a long time, you know, and so I have switched it up. I make a pound cake. A mean peach cobbler pound cake, by the way, but, you know, I have

45:40 I've done things a little differently. I don't put it in a cold oven and wait for it to heat up and I don't do this and don't do that. And so I think that this is the same thing. We we are making the same thing. We are we are showing displaying educating speaking giving dawa on the same religion, but sometimes it doesn't need to be in a cold oven. Sometimes we need to heat things up, and give it to people and give it to the more, you know, you can't go and speak Arabic at the local gym and, you know, expect them to understand, you know, you need to go in and speak to them the way they are. And one of the Beauties about these kind of conversations are that, you know, this thing I'm listening is an act of love that we can stand in front of us and, you know, not only to listen to what these people have to say, but to be able to respond and love and respond with the truth about the religion, so that they can see how beautiful. And loving and warm. This religion is

46:40 Well said well so why, you know, it was said that the the prophet Muhammad said that God never sent a message to the people, except they spoke the language of the people. And I think that's the thing is that we have to learn to speak the language of the people. And there's a language that, you know, people who are born and raised and and was some societies speak from the Middle East or Africa, but there's a language for those of us who were born and raised in in America speak. And you know, that peach cobbler butter pound cake. That's my, that's my language. They're so, so will end with that. Thank you. Thank you for having this conversation with him a Soma. And thank you just for everything you do for a for your commitment to service and it's all forgot. Thank you.