Dennis Danziger and John Rodriguez

00:04 My name is John Rodriguez. I'm 28 today's date is Saturday, February 1st, 2021 in Santa Monica, California. I'm here with Dennis danziger and his relationship to me is a friend also Mentor, but also on the scent of Father Figure.

00:30 My name is Dennis danziger. I'm 68 years old today is Saturday February 1st. We're in Santa Monica, California. I'm here with Johnny Rodriguez. Who was my student Venice High School.

00:46 10 years ago 12 years ago and a friend and a surrogate family member.

00:57 So

00:59 Something that I was thinking about was

01:07 The first few days that I've been Rosa inside and I remember she receiving your letter initial something that I think about was just like

01:16 What went through your head while you have for you to receive to send a letter out like how did you get there first or remind me where the first letter went to this is and I was in the county jail in case we're going out like that. So but when you were in my class was my seventh about my 17th year of teaching and I was about two years into my teaching English at Venice High School. And the reason I thought for the most part is I want to hear my student stories. I was a class about you and my students were the textbook we kind of put the textbook away.

01:58 And we focused a lot on short Memoir writing because I want to know where my students were from who they were or what they were about.

02:07 I don't really care about their interpretation of literature and the first essay that you turned in was called the left and the right.

02:18 And it was about you being bored on a Sunday afternoon and going.

02:24 Burger King and you got jumped

02:27 And it was

02:30 I thought to myself this dude read a lot of time anyway, because it was short powerful No Frills and simple on the surface and really deep and it's hot.

02:43 In south-central I talked to Rich Kids School up at Valley Hi. I thought UCLA for summer programs for high school kids Mall of the world and you were only the second student.

02:55 I've ever taught out of maybe 2,500 students who had this extraordinary writing ability.

03:04 And

03:05 I was amazed by that. In fact, I know if I ever told you this but after you wrote that when I took it home to my wife Amy Freeman who's

03:13 Surrogate family member to you also and who's been a writer and a teacher all her life in the college level my said read this and she was amazed by it. And so I thought

03:25 He plagiarized.

03:27 No one is good. No one is 17 is this good? So we have another assignment and you came back it was about you leaving sneaking out of the house at midnight to go tag highway sign is really good. This guy's too good and I went home I Googled I Googled all your work to see if you were cheating.

03:47 I couldn't find it.

03:49 So then not long after that.

03:52 I gave an assignment in class and said this is a timed essay and it was total nonsense. I just want to catch you cheating.

04:01 Am I gave you the assignment? And I read it and I took it home to Amy and went to Skies really good.

04:08 And she went I think he's a savant.

04:13 I didn't want to lose contact with you. I didn't want that talent to die just because we were physically separated.

04:22 So I wrote.

04:26 I know it's a

04:31 It's weird because I I I do think about.

04:35 I got into at the moment. I don't know what that meant. Right? What was the impact of that would be was to have somebody who meant nothing to me at the time who was for no reason had no reason to be included in my life. Especially somebody who at the time didn't I think I didn't know first of all, let's go back a bit, but for somebody who you had a belief and I I do understand that. I didn't do some of the things that I did that you believe that I was just in a bad situation. They was just miss Fortune.

05:08 Anton

05:11 To find out that know this was a part of me that I didn't gauges certain things. I

05:19 Not explicit explicit label on to a community but indirectly and for you to like know that I had committed a certain type of crime and for you to be like, okay, I'm still going to choose the right this person that for me was just say at the time again. I didn't know what that meant.

05:36 They just thinking about it. Now that guy I sit back sometimes right now and I'm just saying what if this person did not continue to write me.

05:47 I'm glad was impactful for you to be honest. It wasn't that difficult for me. And I was like, there's this guy who has enormous talent and he's sitting in county. And what is it hurt if I reach out right? I mean if you'd been home with if you can out with the flu or mono for four or five weeks would not have reached out. Anyway wouldn't any decent teacher would have reached out and how you doing when you coming back what's going on? Well, you know something else just occurred to me I said it was too extraordinary students are raised and many many gifted students for two that were just like off-the-chart. I couldn't figure it out.

06:30 I noticed I've ever mentioned into his name is Dylan Henry that ever mentioned Dylan to you think so. I don't was at a Lehigh and he was the first of the two brilliant writers and he came in. What about you? Did he read the first thing he wrote I was like this, I wish this kid come from and

06:54 Do the summer before senior year died in a car wreck on sun Sunset Boulevard?

06:59 And maybe the loss of Dylan that I have to

07:04 Beautiful Superstar writers who I knew were going to grow up to be professional writers. He wanted to be and I know he would have been and the idea that I lost one of them. Maybe the idea that I just couldn't bear the idea of losing.

07:17 Some fat might have

07:20 Motivate me to write I don't know but your might spoken to your mother. I met your sister. And of course my wife Amy Friedman, I knew nothing of incarceration before I married her before she was married to me. She was married to a man inside in Canada raised her two daughters and taught me what it was like to be the mother of the children who have incarcerated parents. So I had a little background emotional in any of the time I stepped out into a love. So I I knew he had some impact incarceration.

07:56 And then we forgot to write was it difficult to write back.

08:05 Not really know I think it wasn't difficult to write but

08:10 And it did I think it's weird that I think at that age. I think I'm only one 19 years old. I think at that age for me to like

08:20 Intentionally try not to write you just because one like I just had a separate separate myself from everybody because in my head I'm like, I'm in this for the Long Haul I won't be home until I'm 38. I'm not going to drive other people in this with me and that was kind of my mentality and it was just like

08:40 That was a hard part. The hard part was to not right because I would force myself not to write.

08:47 NFL City

08:50 But then even without responding sometimes you still send letters.

08:55 Yeah, I will not be ignored and I knew that you you.

09:00 You like to read that you like to write and it just I'm not here. I'm still teaching. I see students every day and the same thing happened when I went to your classroom has been inside it. When I return the Pali high after Dylan passed away is I felt the presence in the when I walked in the classroom. I missed him and I missed you. I wouldn't ever let anyone sit until and see it would never let anyone sit in your seat was like, you know, it was like these were sacred spots and then otherwise overcrowded not perfectly pretty public classroom.

09:40 But Mike my concern as we continued.

09:45 I remember when you got out and we went to I kept all your letters and I can drop you some mine and we went to Kinko's and I actually have the receipt with me. We photocopied all the pages and we'd written 264 Pages back and forth to each other over this time, but my thought was do you want to hear what's going on in my life? Do you want to hear what's going on with my family and me with our puppies. Do you want to know what's going on in school? Do you care about the Venice High football game or do you not want to know anything about the outside because you're

10:21 Away from it so that that was the always thought. What do I what do I say?

10:29 That to me was like I didn't I didn't even know what to say or anything. And I remember the first time I went to go out to eat and I got there like 30 to 45 minutes early your always through the phone. It's early. All your appointments and then I remember just sitting in the car.

10:48 Sitting in the car. I just waiting and thinking about it like kind of picture. What what is it that you would look like?

10:56 And for me, it was something I was still old the same, but what was so hard and I don't think I

11:03 I don't know if I ever mentioned it to you, but and I did this with several people, but you were probably one of my top folks that I did it was was to think about.

11:14 I had to convince myself in my head. I had a program this in my head that when I came home and you wouldn't be alive as possible. I'm I was I forgot how old I was when you went in but 22 years plus however old I was there was a really good chance I would have it here and

11:33 So when I came home and weeks ahead dinner that one time.

11:37 Lake

11:39 How did I felt like I was cheating death or something like somebody's death. I didn't feel comfortable because I know that.

11:46 That I was it wasn't supposed to be about like the minimum of at least 10 years before I went home, maybe 15 and

11:56 It just felt it suck because I know that this is something that many other folks would not have it. So to walk with that to know that I just felt like I know there's like a weird. I killed that you feel because I'm just saying survivor's guilt or kinda kind of why me. Why am I? Why can I still see this person that I love when I know these are the folks likely won't but then seeing you it just felt like I don't know. I'm like is this really happening with the words to realize it's my least favorite because overused seen you in the parking lot and having dinner with you and Amy was surreal speaking of not recognizing somebody when I went to visit you and you were new. Imprisonment and I had never been inside before

12:49 And I was the last visit her in because instead of going to new Folsom. I went to Folsom and you were standing at the base of the steps of the plank kind of in the in the waiting area, which is like kind of an ugly bus station waiting areas visitors day there a lot of parents are with their their sons and loved ones and you were the only person there waiting.

13:23 I know you are everything that I never. I didn't know you weren't you had lost a lot of weight. I remember you was being kind of Round right away. And you know you were you lost a lot of weight you were thin and your hair was really long and I know you were studying and reading much about your Native American roots that you look very native American are much more so than the Johnny I knew with Venice High School. And so when we sat down I began to Pepper you questions to make sure it was you like which middle school did you go to and who did you sit with an eyeglass and I just asked you interviewed you because for a while I wasn't sure it was weird. And this is what I remember most about that day.

14:09 And I didn't know how long you'd inside Maybe.

14:13 Two three years or 3 years or whatever does the prison does to people you were not able to ask for anything that's going to buy you a Coke and I'll buy you a bottle of water out of a Snickers bar, and it was like, whatever.

14:31 Life force that you had before you went in.

14:35 You couldn't ask it was that that was the painful part of the day. It's like something and have the only thing you asked for was if I could get you cannabis subscription the LA Times, which is very difficult in the subscription of anything to inside if we can jump because that was 2 years in and in 15 weeks. You're going to graduate from UCLA.

15:03 With a degree in English literature and a grade point average of off-the-chart. What it what is it for now? It's it's safe at 3.9. But that might change his might go up. And what's that junk feel like you still are you still processing freedom?

15:26 I don't think so. I don't think so. I think I'm

15:32 I jumped in really quickly, which is a good thing, but it's also

15:38 It's right. It's weird. It was weird because

15:42 Like I I felt like

15:45 Is that this weird Gap? It feels like want to have to play catch-up to like I'm surrounded by people that I really care about but it feels like I can spend time with them. So it's really like the separation of bears are still there and I just went from my one institution to another.

16:03 And it's lovely like it's lovely in the sense that like

16:09 I remember doing correspondence courses inside and I was like fuck. I wish I could Professor. I wish I could ask this person about this question or what not and then now I have the opportunity to raise my hand and wanted to be called by my first name and then to like ask questions and then afterwards they asked me questions like they're the ones at fault want to follow up with me which is very very weird. But also very nice and

16:34 It just feels like

16:37 It feels very very surreal still and I and I think that's why I'm kind of scared to just pause for a little bit cuz I have a feeling that there's there are things that I have already sat down with all the way it just feels

16:52 If it's chilly in the sense that like I wish I could be more intentional with my time and be there for people but like school doesn't allow me to be so what happened inside and those eight years that you went from being.

17:09 Other than my English class not a stellar student at Venice High School. You were five years senior, right?

17:17 To graduating with honors in a few weeks from UCLA what happened intellectually educationally inside that pushed you in?

17:32 Enter reading and writing in Academia and thought and completely.

17:38 Resurrecting yourself what happened?

17:44 When it was just like a bunch of support a bunch of support from people like you who for some reason and SOS. Why did you all care about me? But

17:56 When I didn't care about myself, I know the other folks wear.

18:00 And once I started doing that, I think I was very very fortunate in the sense that I wasn't a complete dumbass. I'm a dumbass decision.

18:12 But I had to eat the the ability to process too like really grass material. And so when I went inside and I got to the first college program, I seen that there was people that didn't have that ability. And when I saw that I

18:30 Again, I don't know why I feel like guilty a lot, but I just felt like

18:34 I got no folks. I can't even read the letters that people sent to them. And so to me that I try to help them it just felt good to see them like finally.

18:45 Have the ability to do some of the things the process language to know what it is that they were engaging with and then also seeing

18:56 Also see in the faces of surprise on people especially a lot of the correctional officers when deep down they make you feel like shit. They make you feel like you cannot do anything and then

19:07 To see the look on their face when they light.

19:10 Damn, these folks are actually doing something that was ready.

19:16 If you love me if you love me and want not not for me, but to make it accessible to other people because I seen that your folks are engaging with certain things if I can keep their mind away from the bullshit that's happening on the yard if I could keep them engage in writing if I can keep it again or whatever subjects.

19:35 I see that little change a little spark coming in and then little by little if you got a bunch of little Sparks and then you got a little flame and we start building is a community who first didn't even talk to each other and then you got black and brown and yellow and white folks are reaching out. Hey, can I borrow your textbook? Can I do this and to see that and to see actual functioning like living community? That was that's what did it for me? And so

20:04 I keep that with me.

20:07 And when I was supposed to like I sent pictures inside and they're like a year at UCLA you doing this and I'm like not we're at UCLA cuz I carry y'all with and I'll make sure you get here. So what you carried other people in?

20:23 So when I visited you at new Folsom and we've been corresponding I came back. I came back back to LA there two later and a few days after that. You wrote a letter to me. I have it. I have it end this letter just the way you touch these people fly to where your classes at. That was at Ironwood state, right? This is the letter you wrote dated March 3rd, 2012. Maybe you should be the first paragraph so nothing.

21:01 Dear students

21:03 Thank you for taking the time to listen. I'm sure you're asking yourself. Why am I reading this or why do I have to listen to this crap? This guy is in this guy's a loser. He's in prison. Not me. You're right, but please allow me a few minutes of your time.

21:20 I was a kid once in the same shoes that you strolled in. I used to sit in that same classroom and probably the same desk that you're in a what which I learned that you're not sitting in their desk staring at the clock open the Belvedere rain to end the. That's all classmates take take their phones out checking to see if they received a text from their buddy standing at the other end of the classroom. I heard Mr. Down to go tell stories about him catching kids doing lines of Coke in the back of the classroom for having parents trying to sue him because he felt the student who honestly and then I found the report card, but I remember most about the class where the journals Benson Downs are going to give us 10 minutes each day to scribble anything. We want it on a piece of paper how many teachers gave us that freedom day. I was told us what to do and how to do it our donors with private secret free from their eyes and people who would criticize our writing. It was lovely.

22:13 I'm so this is like a three-page letter. It's well over a thousand words and it ends and this is I'm going to read the last so please take these words into consideration. Do you like me wishing? I could retrace my steps Your Time Is Now make the right decisions before it's too late. If you don't want to get an education to satisfy someone else do it for yourself prove to everyone who put you down, but you can achieve something. If not for these reasons do it for me. You'll be able to say you made a prisoner smile, which is something I do. I don't do quite often enjoy though. Thank you for your time. Best wishes Johnny Rodriguez. So I got this letter I took it all my classes. I wrote to all my classes and in my last. Of the day it was a young lady named Kara who would come in and put her head flat on the desk. He wasn't High she wasn't stoned. She was just exhausted from life.

23:09 And she has a zero average should never done any work in my class. You never looked at people have to see her face and I read this entire letter.

23:17 And when I finish with those words she sat up and she raised her hand and she said my brothers in new Folsom. I wonder if he knows Johnny that he's there and parole violations not a big deal. But you know, sometimes we get up at 4 in the morning and Sunday. We drive all the way up to new Folsom Take 6 hours and we get there. There's a lockdown my brother hasn't done anything, but then we have to turn around and get all the way back and she talked about what it was like to be the sister family member of someone who is incarcerated and everyone in the class was honed in on what you said and she kept talkin and talkin. I remember High School anything over if a student talks for more than 20 seconds. It's an aria right? No one she talked for about 7 minutes.

24:02 I kept looking going shy stopper but like they will listen to her more than ever. Listen to me, right and thought and she and she gave this talk. She came alive because of this letter. I'm at home. I gave it to Amy. I told her what happened and she said we're going to start a club.

24:22 For students whose lives have been impacted by incarceration and which we did and what you know, it's called pops now their fans for paint of the prison system.

24:32 I think back of all the people we talked about the community that you created inside of writing.

24:38 Because of the slaughter cuz of Amy's background with incarceration being brought the life because it's got by Nick who's

24:50 Mentor mover Shaker who's Padres new here. We started this club. It started at Venice High School in my class with Amy and I'm making brownies if anybody whose life has been impacted by incarceration come to my class at lunch. We start out with 10 people in my class. We made brownies and

25:12 Peanut butter sandwiches that was seven years ago this month and now we're in 14 Schools.

25:21 In LA in New York and Pennsylvania in Atlanta and your letter and these other people Amy Scott Budnick are the spark of pops and now over thousand students if we serve over a thousand students, you know of the anthologies we publisher the intelligence a thousand students have written their stories that wraps are Memoirs published in their artwork for photography and you were part of the drive.

25:52 That lovers has touch now a thousand pops kids coast to coast and growing all the time. So

26:00 I hadn't expected that when I read your Foreigner word essays in my class, but kind of the beauty of writing is if you write something and feel that you work on your craft you put it out there at you. Never know.

26:13 Where it's going to land, so you've told me with this 3.9 UCLA average you're going to do what with it.

26:23 What's the next step?

26:26 I'm trying to figure that out. It's scary one because I'm like

26:32 I'm used to being a student. I like it. I like being in the classroom because I've been away from it for so long.

26:40 But

26:42 I don't know because like I'm getting my feedback from folks I'm hearing folks. I know what I want to do folks feeding you back like

26:52 I have to do with financial stuff about what time make sure I go to get a graduate degree or should I go for a PhD or tomorrow 4 to go at the end of the day? I'm just saying.

27:07 Imma get imma go back inside prison

27:12 I want to use the deter.

27:15 To help people want to understand their histories cuz I helped me a lot once I was able to tap into that. It really helped me just couldn't get comfortable myself understand where I was coming from and I'll be confused as confused cuz I'm so confused, but you confused about things like I'm not 100% sure of myself. But this I want to do that provide that like here these are your histories, but also, I think it's important to understand the kind of pretty much.

27:50 It's modeling what you did just haven't lined up somebody the ability to just talk.

27:56 Say your story on it. But one thing that I want to do is further it is and body it so I can probably use performance art and another piece of it. I think it's important is to not do it in an on an individual level but work with the folks around you because I seen that that's when Mike I feel most comfortable when like super uncomfortable but I ran into a group of strangers and it was like, okay, let's put the bullshit put the boss of the Silas figure out who we are and that's when everything just moves that he's so that's what I that's what you're going to be wherever you teach Brothers insiders High School to college wherever you're going to be really good cuz I've seen you.

28:36 I seen you when you come to Pop's meetings both of Venice and El Camino. I don't know where else were always trying to grab you to be a guest speaker. But I've always move that when you come back how you connect with the students at these pops meetings, and I'm wanting to know what happens for you.

28:54 When you come back to the classroom when you came back to our classroom for the first time and sense.

29:02 Is this it?

29:06 It just feels like a good one to be back and then to it's also a little weird not in a bad way and I won't use her real cuz you don't like that word, but

29:18 Play that's it. Those are those are like that the younger version of me sitting in front of me.

29:24 And although I for some reason like them the farther away from being released from incarceration the more I think like the world challenges challenges you to stay in tune with yourself, but I do try to bring myself back and just like put myself in their position like remember what it was to feel like this like what was going on with the feelings. What did one care about what was, which is like

29:51 I was unhappy with myself. I wasn't happy with my situation.

29:57 I didn't know what I wanted to do. I knew I that likely would not have graduated on time. And then also the the financial expectation of like being an adult right make technically legally classified as an adult why I'd like to know more like that because schools I really pushed college and we know only 30% of people go to college and we know it's extraordinary expensive. So what happens in the mind of you when you were a teenager other people, you know young people when you have that pressure,

30:34 And you know, that's what you're supposed to do, but it seems insurmountable which is a community college community colleges are awesome and very financially smart decisions. But at the time like that wasn't going through my head I didn't College was in the thought. Did you have a thought of what what you would be doing the day after you graduate at the age of 18 and I wasn't thinking that far. I was just saying more concerned about

31:12 Yesterday today when you were working or working and taking care of my little brother and sisters.

31:21 I would act surprised and look forward to writing to your assignments that was about the only thing.

31:29 I remember after you turn in one of these that he was your third outside and I said dude, what do you read? And you looked at me like haha. Like what do you read in with Luis J Rodriguez? Give me a box Santiago Baca Gary Soto stop me when I mentioned it to kind of writer, you know, and it was just

31:53 You didn't you said I read the sports section when you bring Allie X in.

31:58 So my question that I never asked where did this writing Talent come from if you weren't reading avidly or at all when you were teenagers were you writing?

32:09 No, I don't think I was writing. I think it was drawing more. Okay, and I think

32:15 I don't know. I think it was as always just like this ability to like make things right light to the kind of like externally show that shit is okay. And I did that too many ways. One of them was like, I guess you the ability to detail, you know, what what what's real and it says like, you know how to connect Focus people's attention elsewhere. So when things are going on in the home or removing or everything's hectic at home or just like you show up and it's you show up to class in like not everything's good. And so I think that abilities what came in and then the first where I think I started like channeling or like processing that someone was through through tagging in three trying and that was a way to connect let that out and that was like my way of Storytelling in the beginning

33:03 And I just popped my head are used to you. Right do you have friends were inside of your still? I do not go to an end. What you write what you write what they want to hear and I also

33:19 I think what would you tell people who are listening about the people, you know, he would be contacting you still in contact with her inside for me. Like I don't watch TV out here.

33:38 And I'm always for some reason why there's so much stuff going on and people especially people's ass like oh you went to go do this or you visited this place. I've had awesome and whatnot and realistic and I tell them especially if I if I trust him I think a lot of people look at me because I'm like, I really don't care about this other place or that I ran into the Superstar. This is this and that like I really don't care I for me like when I get a letter,

34:06 Headlights me up. I got to get to like get away from the world for a bit and just like be there be present in to read and just kind of be reminded. I hate that these connections are lost. And so

34:20 We just write about like like a regular conversation is feeling nothing and then a lot of the times to I have to remind myself that sometimes like when I write back.

34:31 As a writer I know this is wrong, but I try to light cover myself writes the kind of like sensor some of the things that I'm doing and because one I'm like, I don't want to accidentally say something that will make somebody feel bad which would like a visit this place with each other things I'm doing but then again I get reminded and I know how it is where I have my friends and they're like no tell me what the fuck you're doing. Like I want to hear about it and resend that sound like a stack of photos to my friend and he just I just got a letter this morning. I mean last night that I read this morning and I was like,

35:08 I thank you for that little journey cuz it was about like 30 pictures and just showing him and writing on the back of them into tunnel. Hey, this is this is this person with little vials and everything and he was just like

35:20 It was nice to do that for a little bit. I got two more questions before we call it a day one it is if we were come back here.

35:30 For 5 years from now 10 years from now. What is it? You want to write?

35:35 But you haven't written in what form?

35:38 Perform, what form do you do have that manuscript in your mind, but what of what's inside you you're in school full time right now, you're not able to write creative like to 24 hours a day. What's the peace in your mind that you wish to write one day. That's still inside you.

36:00 I think it's a I don't know how to like a master plan. But I think at the end of the day, I just want to I Really

36:10 I like seeing people connect. I like seeing people connect then one especially through hardship and all types of ways are forms and engraver even talking about like my little brother and I like going to the now I'm on the same going to the court system right being a supporter. I mean, he's hiding his trial and then also like seeing the other side right at the people who are affected by this other families. I don't want to use victims cuz can integrate them in a sense, but those people

36:39 To see at the end of the day that no matter what was being done through a core processor through system like we're all hurting

36:47 Hey, I think if my brother goes away for a long time and the other folks who lost a child.

36:55 Make a profit in the end and I want to uplift that like we're hurting but we can heal and we can heal together and really my

37:04 I want to just bring understanding and make some peace with whatever I do and that would be my next project. I don't know what it is. I kind of was thinking about maybe community.

37:15 A community play where folks from the community from certain types of backgrounds can connect right which in a place where they likely would it have and Brooke together build your story build your narratives come together, and I don't want to ride and I want them to write it because it'll be much Broncho. Yeah, that's a great project.

37:35 Community I just want a tattoo questions, but after work, I know I was probably a community Amy Friedman spotted you community Scott Budnick was important part of a community Governor Brown Community or sentence was part of your community how many people

37:53 Had their metaphorical arms around you to lift you to help lifter you did you did the work you I always say you wrote your way to Freedom when you were inside, but how many other people

38:09 Who am I missing?

38:11 I think it's the people who go unnoticed into song small simple acts and the sense that you can have it one correctional officer who makes you feel like

38:22 A human again and I could just be one movement right one word or two. Hey, how you doing this morning to like people who you probably never interacted with so I know it's like not now everybody's visible.

38:40 But yeah, I think that that's what that's what's been. Those are. Those are the folks involved. It's hard to grasp everybody and everybody but we affect folks that we don't think we will.

38:53 I promise this is my last question. Are you going to graduate from UCLA in May of this year June? How many tickets do you get for graduation to get about 4, I think I'll drive and you will have one or two or three graduations. Okay, so our department in there for underground Scholars, and then so that way y'all will be there. We were at you when you get your AA degree in sided Ironwood State Prison was very moving day and very special day for us. So UCL, I'd be better cuz been gotten eat afterwards.

39:39 I'm looking for it to you to thank you for having this conversation with thank you. Thank you Dennis for everything. Love you.