Douglas O'Neill and Susan Czyrny

Recorded August 26, 2021 Archived August 26, 2021 50:59 minutes
0:00 / 0:00
Id: ddv001101


Douglas "Doug" O'Neill [no age given] and One Small Step partner, Susan Czyrny [no age given] discuss political values, their respective degrees in Sociology and Creative Studies, and their function within their career, mental health, importance of education and elders in our present society.

Subject Log / Time Code

SC and DO share how they came to hear about One Small Step and their interest in having a conversation. They describe influential people in their life.
DO shares political views. He gives thoughts on misleading in media and connects that to his background in government. SC shares her political path and her thoughts on Afghanistan, climate change, and human rights.
SC describes her creative studies degree and the usefulness of the degree in problem solving and it application in her work. DO shares his reasoning for going into sociology. He was inspired by a life event as a widowed male with five children.
DO shares thoughts on social isolation during pandemic and education around mental health. SC shares thoughts on the disservice of the current educational system. DO shares the impact of labeling. They discuss other political topics, including electoral college views, corporate impact on social mind shaping, representation of the Senate body and elders in society.


  • Douglas O'Neill
  • Susan Czyrny

Recording Location

Virtual Recording

Partnership Type




StoryCorps uses Google Cloud Speech-to-Text and Natural Language API to provide machine-generated transcripts. Transcripts have not been checked for accuracy and may contain errors. Learn more about our FAQs through our Help Center or do not hesitate to get in touch with us if you have any questions.

00:02 Today's date is August 26th. 2021 and I'm here today to speak with Doug. Doug is a retired. Sociology Professor from South Dakota State University. He's been married for 27 years with six children. His first wife died of breast cancer and he was widowed with children. The ages of fourteen months, to 12 years. He went back to college to get a PhD in sociology with an area of concentration and dust dying and grief has a Bachelors of Science in world history and a master's of science is geography. He's a Vietnam theater veteran, as a medical error, aerobic medic. He worked his 14 years in the National Imaging map. He worked 14 years for the national image and mapping Agency for DOD, and he is the co-author of Greek Odyssey.

01:00 All right. My name is Doug O'Neill and I am talking with Sue today and her background when she was born and raised in Buffalo, New York, Chess Masters of Science and Creative Studies from Buffalo State College. She is a person that loves to learn open to new ideas, left to discuss and debate ideas. Have high tolerance of ambiguity, and active community. And professional associate volunteer. Today is August 26th, 2021.

01:38 Okay, thank you. So Doug, I'll begin with this first question for you. And then sue. Please follow, please tell us why you wanted this type of interview.

01:55 I would have never known, except I was listening to a radio broadcast of Glenn Beck. Why listen to off and on? And on one of his programs, he had an individual, I believe from your organization that was talking about this to get people to communicate and not argue. So they speak. Just to open up the channels of good conversation without always arguing about everything. So that that's how I found out about it. And this is sociologist, and background of military intelligence stuff. It kind of came right down my Iowa interest. And when I did my dissertation, I had to come up with you creative objective survey. And so trying to figure out how to talk with people on paper and then interviewing them afterwards. It's just always been a very big interest to my list. This all came right to the point of this type of presentation.

03:02 So, I wanted to do this interview today because I am very concerned about the state of democracy. I am very active in the nonprofit. Not-for-profit space. I survived a number of Dei diversity, equity and inclusion committees. I am also a rotarian.

03:25 I serve on the board of directors, for the League of Women Voters, and what we're finding is, having these relations is very difficult. The polarisation is off the charts, and I feel that we really need to make an effort to connect and understand one another. I feel we can't be back off into our corners and I feel this is a learning opportunity and I'm here to learn and to listen, and to actively engage, and hopefully be able to engage in other discussions of this nature.

04:05 I would like for both of you to answer to outside with you. If you would talk about maybe two to three, influential people in your life may be past or present and talk about what they taught you. And then the police follow, once he finishes.

04:24 People in my life, but they emphasized, the importance of education, and learning and asking questions. And being curious. My dad was a history teacher or social studies teacher. So, we were instilled with the history of every day. So they were the ones who shape me and and, and gave me the motivation to learn and to go to college and continue to try and Excel and to be kind to others. So that's that's where I am with that.

05:09 Oh, this is a difficult question. That sounds. It it for me. It's very difficult. Cuz I don't have a person. I have so many people that have influenced my life to where I ended up this far on a Weber. I'm going to, I'm going to try to say it maybe in a different manner. I think, the most influential person, that's affected my life presently. And in the past is my current wife. She was a professional woman and still is in the University here in South Dakota. She retired recently. She was a big into satellite imagery and stuff like that. But, hi, we met with my background in hers.

05:52 She was never married before. She's we're both Protestant, but you should be ashamed of the Catholic religion or being able to come in to marry somebody with six children. I couldn't do it. She could and we've been married for 27 years and no head ups and downs like a relationship, but she definitely has to be the most important person.

06:19 But to get there, I had to go through a lot of different parts of my life, different world Network to get where I'm at, and I could be happier.

06:34 Or inside waiting for you to focus on. As far as influential individuals in your life, say you could take the time here if there's anything and I know that caught your eye or sparking interest, I would say, you know, one another my my last question and then I'll kind of blackout.

07:06 I would say to describe your personal political values, the God. I have you starting to please follow. And then after that, you know, you can dig into each other or whatever may come up and answering this question. I would ask you to describe your personal political values. The issues that are important to you and your family and and give some examples as to why those things important, maybe where they came from. So maybe you can take your time here to describe a blackout. Once you, you start.

07:46 Start this Friday, boy.

07:51 For me, the reference point for political leaning Left, Right? Independent, whatever.

07:59 It depends on what was occurring in my life at that time of the political movements. I think I've been extremely conservative. I've been extremely liberal and right now, I'm independent cuz I'm just fed up with both of them completely, but the reference of where I was born in South Dakota to conservative state. It always has been basically, I hate using parties because the Democrats used to be conservative in the twenties and now it's your phone but none of that is basically a Conservative, Republican state, being a child of the sixties. I'm 70 years old, Vietnam Watergate, the white papers in all of this was very influential George McGovern. I've known him a message a couple times. Very liberal, Senator ran for president.

08:50 Lost by a landslide, but we ahead of his time and very Progressive. I moved into after my service that came back and got my degrees and moved into an apartment lease mapping. There. I had a top secret clearance with access, which means it's Above Top Secret. I learned a lot of things. I didn't know before and what really, really change me is that I cannot and will not believe the media. I don't care if it's boxer. CNN, the misleading information flow is unbelievable. First things you do not need to know. You don't care to know, enjoy your right. But when you see things that are just, blatantly incorrect, bothers me greatly. I became from a liberal at the time of the 70s to a very conservative person in the 80s and 90s. I was fed up with everything.

09:50 I wanted to some type of mechanism to get things out somewhere. Road some leader that have apple. I like Reagan. I didn't care for push, mower equipment, Fair. Now, that was just a media soap. Opera and then I came along Bush and Gore, I voted for Bush.

10:12 No reason other than I thought he liked him better than Gore because I'm not a climate change expert. But what I do know from my studies without there's a lot of misinformation and will be in meth lab. In my opinion. Then comes President Obama. I did not vote for him, had nothing to do with race or anything. I just didn't care for his agenda. Then I'm comes into being, I voted for Trump to, that still fed up with it.

10:46 And I voted for Trump. I right now, despise Trump greatly.

10:54 He I believe that his policies his ideas of cleaning, the swamp. Etcetera are not mad that she is personality his approach just literally took me out of his camp.

11:11 Completely, and now I'm independent and kind of concluding with this right now. What's happening in Afghanistan is just being an ex-military. It's it's a tragedy and I do not know how we're going to recover internationally from this Fiasco and it wouldn't matter. If George Washington was President. It's not the president. But somebody's got to have a back to protect these people because it's going to become our new Jewish Holocaust or what's going to happen to these women and families. It is going to be in the city.

11:50 What dogs, thank you for sharing, so high. I since I was 18 years old. I was registered as a Democrat, and I am still a Democrat. However, on the spectrum of a conservative or liberal, I tend to be in the center. I don't deviate too much from a center. It may go to the right and make you have left. I don't like generalizations. So I don't like to put categories. I like to look at the the issues and the facts around the issues. And, you know, I want to hear different perspectives. I have my own perspective, but I I realized that my perspective is limited based on my experience so very much open to learning about other people's perspectives. And it's one of the reasons that I'm here today is because I I I feel that I need to have conversations with people who think differently than I do.

12:46 So, the issues for me, I am very, I am concerned about climate change. I am very much concerned about human rights. The situation in Afghanistan. Afghanistan, is is a tragedy. I just don't understand how, how we are in this position. The more I've learned, I guess, I really didn't pay enough attention to, to the, to the actual facts of the situation. We've been there, 20 years, things are coming out that I, I had no idea. This is what we did and why we did it. So it's a very, it's a learning experience and it's it's difficult to watch this. I'm very much a community-minded person. So I do feel like, I need to support the community. I feel volunteering and giving back to the community is one of the ways I can do that human rights to climate change, a very concerned about a democracy in general. I, I feel that we're so polarized and we're still at opposite ends of the spectrum and we can't have simple carbs.

13:46 Another reason why I'm here. I really feel like we need to get through.

13:52 Rudy the

13:56 The noise and really focus on on, on what we can come together in terms of our core values. I love my family. I love my friends. I want everyone to be healthy and happy. I want my my my kids. My niece is my nephew's to have a great education. I want them to prosper in life and be able to follow whatever career path or paths. It is that they want to choose in life and as a kind of that's where I'm at. I I I

14:27 And I am involved.

14:31 In this discussion because I feel, we need to find a way to talk with other people who don't think like ourselves and be able to come together on Solutions and and tame down some of these extreme. So that's that's where I am.

14:46 So I have a question. I found that your masters in science degree was interesting. The topic called Creative Studies before I like you. Like, obviously you enjoy education. Are you one day when I'm in the death and did the timer truck? I'm just curious. What does a Creative Studies in pain? And where does it take you or where has it taken you?

15:21 Soda Creative Studies program is a program out of Buffalo State College. There is the international Centre for studies and creativity, bad rest at Buffalo State College. And I had to say it was a life-changer, a game-changer for me. It really focuses on Creative problem-solving. And transformational Leadership still gives you a lot of the tools and the training and the thinking and the academic research behind was involved in Creative problem-solving. What's involved in taking creating ideas and taking an idea from just an idea to an innovation that's marketable. It is the staff and faculty and student body. There is just phenomenal and it really gave me a different perspective and a tools. Or approaching life and approaching work that I didn't have before. So it's allowed me to really get

16:21 Into the weeds really clarify, what it is that, whatever the issue is that I'm working in. Whether it's work, or whether its volunteers or what-have-you with her education, at work in those spaces and it has just been a transformation has been phenomenal. And I've connected with so many people, across the spectrum that the Creative Studies program is Buffalo State buffaloes eccentric program. It is available worldwide. They have number affiliate universities that they do this program through. There's a bachelor's degree and there's a master's degree and it was really helpful for me and and in life and in in my career is an answer, the question.

17:07 Looking at the, I kind of assumed it was kind of in that Realm by to see in the courses are the degree. Should get it because the indicator. So, the individuals interest in, weather going home to go, walk to go and and I kind of assumed it was something like that, but I wasn't sure. So, it would you get in there like arbitration or dispute management. If you are so funny that you should ask me that question because while we do some group problem solving and maybe it's

17:42 Not conflict per se but maybe someone's trying to pursue a business idea and their stock or what-have-you, but I just enrolled in a conflict resolution class at Cornell. So that and the reason I had the reason I enrolled in that class is because I normally avoid conflict. I I'd rather not get involved in Conflict. You know what? I mean? I kind of stay away from it. And I realize where we are today, that that's that's not going to be helpful. We need to be able to have a Frank conversation and and respect each other's viewpoints and agree to disagree, but somehow move forward with our thinking and with our Solutions agree, how to to approach a matter. But if we can agree that there is a solution as needed, we can come up with a reasonable compromise and how to do it. I think so. Creative problem solving.

18:42 That degree really is helping me with this next certificate program and I'm using the certificate program because I am involved in a duel and education or rotary and for the League of Women Voters, and for some other Professional Organization. We're really active in this diversity equity and inclusion space, and that takes a whole other language, and a whole other way of thinking to, to, to implement some of these new programs and policies. So it's all time together for me and what I'm doing now.

19:21 Rights.

19:23 So tell me, tell me about your background tell me about sociology while what what made you go in sociology exam sociology is because my first wife's death, that's the long and the short of it. She would just had turned 33 and she found the cello, get breast cancer and nine months later after she found out, she was she was dead. So I had never known anybody. One lies that have been widowed, let alone have six kids and I was working for the Department of Defense at that time. The nature of Pi work, really didn't allow me to continue. It would have been just impossible to continue where I was going or what I needed to do, but being a father sick, so I decided to do something with this.

20:19 You been to my life. So I look far and wide and maybe some smoke stuff to find out how the weather is supposed to react as usually, the guy dies in the older in life. What a reception where you out there except for divorce, man, or divorced women that have children. I wasn't divorced and I found out that in any given year. There's only about two hundred thousand men of the United States that go through something similar to some nature.

20:49 So with that in mind, I decided, Well, I'm going to do something with this experience.

20:55 I came back to South Dakota, State University went through all the courses, all the studying, all the while the prelims and, you know, the whole day and that in about 66 and a half years, I completed and I got my doctorate and might have in the study. What I did is I did a study that has been done before and how do men react when they become a single parent by death, so it forced me to observe to write.

21:27 Degree 33. I'm a bibliophile. Anyway, I love to read I read not stop. So it it broke new ground that I wasn't the only one obviously, but I learned it from other men that if you think your tragedy is bad, that you're you're wrong because there's always somebody that has been knocked down harder.

21:49 And more tragic. If you also that with a real and lightning, I used to be more cynical.

22:02 I also at times going on. I was sociology. I've got involved with mental health. We have a relative said, you have mental health issues.

22:13 I think that was probably just about as it's important to some degree than being a widow because what it forced me to do is to acknowledge that mental health issues are real and no matter how hard is it to pull yourself up by the bootstraps and get over the self-pity that was wrong. And so I had to learn that and then I got involved the state legislature and I helped pass a couple bills in South Dakota, that would just help families. And so that's kind of why I went into sociology. It wasn't my choice. I had no intention of going back to get another degree after my masters in geography. I love the job. I was doing prior but

22:56 Situations might dictate and suddenly change your whole roadmap to where you think you're going.

23:05 Do you help people with that degree? Do you help them cope with them death and dying situations? Or is that, is that what you do? You help people or was it a very close friends? I met in the military. I was a medic. I helped deliver hunting children and on and on and I became involved in the medical field and now presently, we've been friends for over 50 years now and my very good friend. His wife is in the hospital and he was a pallbearer for my first wife's funeral. So he calls me off and on or text and he just, he doesn't need help. You just need somebody that will listen and listen to listening this most difficult task. I think humans

24:02 Because everybody has their opinion and everybody Cuts other people off before they listen to what the man said.

24:12 The mental health issues. I do have a family member who does supper suffer from some mental health issues, and I agree with you. That's an area that I think. As a society. We really need to do a better job of addressing and working with with our our friends and our family members who are in those situations Camp. Damn. It has really brought to the Forefront, what it's like to be socially isolated and people. With mental health issues. Her daughter has schizophrenia and now you're sitting in your room and you're just I slightly these people are always isolated and that's why self-medication drugs and alcohol is such a huge issue cuz I have nobody in their life and it's understandable that they

25:12 Because whatever normal is just can't associate with these type of people out. Where do you think we can do? I mean, what do you think from a mental health perspective, over this really resonates with me? I hear that resonates with you. What, what, what can we do together? What can I do for a breathing tube? What do you think? What do you see us needing to do? Or what? Can we do as individuals to make a difference in this mental health issue area?

25:48 And right now, we are been working the last couple years. I'm a part of its called beppu Nessa.

25:56 I'll volunteer group of people that try to help families with education is the number one issue across this nation and lack of understanding and knowledge of what mental health is and I think the issue that go with it. The caregiver role is just how life is. But one thing that I think really, it's brought me in at all. What should I do in life? It's my dislike for social media. I dislike for internet in my dislike for TV. Now, I use it just like everybody else does in today's world. You really have no choices, but letting people talk like, we are even though since technology 121 and everybody suddenly becomes an x-ray by a fox or CNN, 1 minute to s,

26:54 Presentation on the war in Afghanistan Sunday. I know everything there is to know about that and it's that's going across everything. We think we understand. And know this is a major, major problem from

27:09 And I cannot from from that point. I think that falls back. So to speak on your creative degree, what you do with with this wound. Who knows? What's right or wrong anymore. I really don't.

27:22 And I really used to think I had some knowledge, but right now with all the misinformation, by both sides.

27:29 How do you teach, how do you prevent, how do you discussing?

27:37 Interesting. I am with you on the education. Peace and not just on Mental Health, but just done basic education. I think I think our educational system has not done a disservice to to Americans in general because I don't feel like, like we have a good understanding of our history. I don't feel like we have a good understanding of how our government works. I feel like people do not have the skills to think critically. I'm in evaluates and and have them the media literacy skills in an able to determine, you know, what is what is good information versus? Maybe not good information. I am hoping that having this conversation and telling people about this conversation. And actually I've got some I got a couple of people to actually do this. I told him what I was doing and I got a couple of other

28:37 How to do just as well. I don't know if you were able to do that, but I was able to do that. And a couple of my colleagues did just do this this past month. So I'm going to be actually talking with them later. This afternoon. I'm going to hear a but I'm going to listen to what they had to say about their experience has been continue talking with you and continue the conversation Beyond this into how you and I being somewhere in the middle. Sometimes, I think either. And depending on what the situation is, collaborating using your degree in sociology, mine and creative problem-solving. Maybe we can bring not only those disciplines but from where we are different perspectives in the country to maybe spark a bigger conversation and and move this concept forward to you. Did you share what you were doing?

29:37 With other people in your family, or your friends, just let you know, he had to go to her meeting today. So she left the house was quiet here. No kids. No grandkids. Other than a thunderstorm going through. It should be pretty quiet. One of the things that I learned, I taught at the University, a satellite, from the main campus, where we left is, how much I enjoy teaching

30:07 I probably I probably learned more from teaching that I caught a strange, but we try the in here, is one of the things I see now and it bothers me greatly, if the teacher performances are a complete and utter joke, because if I give everybody in a, I'm going to get perfect ratings and I'll be best person that ever existed students. Today in our society cannot accept failure. Failure. Is it is that acceptable? We have to tolerate everything out. I think there are words that are being so misused and skewed in the public in public administration like tolerance and diversity and stop being a history, major and stuff. I really read a lot of history and geography. What are the things that Teddy? Roosevelt said? It said, if you put an adjective in front of your, at your, your country, you've already causing division.

31:08 I don't care for white. American black American Native American. I don't care. I really don't affect. I refuse to use it.

31:17 Number one.

31:19 I don't care who you are. But if you live in America and you're a citizen, you're just an American citizen end of discussion. However, no good politician can have people get along. They have to solve problems that they create.

31:35 Almost, if you think about it, most of the problems that we encounter in day-to-day life are not created by me in Brookings, South Dakota in Buffalo, is people that we send the Washington and suddenly, they're on a new drug power and you don't know who I am. And took make me come up with these ideas with good intentions and bureaucracies that never die. You create a bracha, see, it doesn't die. So, I think it's things like that are just causing more problems than individuals talking like us because you can't control

32:12 That the bureaucracy and so many areas and it's frustrating for me.

32:17 And I, I don't know if that fits in anything into yours or push. It's the other way that I just hope it's just a big picture. Do green, we're being divided there cuz the division is being is out there and people are are

32:39 Rocketing or gaining power from the division. And I really think if we could if it really if we got together as a people in a room without the politicians and without the news media. I really feel like we could we could get into a room and and and come up with common issues that we care about it and come up with Solutions on her own. Without the one thing. I was wondering as you were growing up in, this is what I've been thinking about the 22 points in the first one is when I was growing up, all we could get on TV with CBS and it was only at the antenna was in the right position and my dad had me go up and change the rabbit ears. Well, now, you know, what is it about? The American psyche yourself, that can understand that New York La Denver in in Chicago are not the heart and soul of this country.

33:37 To be honest, you're a pain in the butt because everything that we look at is always geared towards, what, what? California doing, or what's New York City doing, or you not get. It's a major metropolitan areas. And this scares me. I no matter if you like the electoral system are not any candidate off. They have to do is win 12, major, metropolitan areas and the rest of the country doesn't matter.

34:05 And this is a big concern of mine, you know? And politics. I took a concern college would be Howard. Wiki. How is this? How would you change it to make it like that college was actually set up for just the opposite game that we're playing out when the colonies and stuff came together. It was all real American, like 3% of Americans at that. They were in New York while you look at it. Today is change Dynamic, like solar power is moving.

34:47 It's worth from rural to the cities. And now I think you're starting to see kind of a backflow from the Dust Bowl areas of people from the big States. Let me see if they were fed up with all this and then I'll turn it back to South Dakota will soon have a whole 1 million people population for the whole state. So, you know, if they're coming here for different reasons, but I think this is what people, you know, they're always my thing back and forth because of you treat, and I think the Electoral College keeps its balance if possible and Chris Harvey has fear about rigged election. I don't know. I'm so confused. What do you think? My observation is that now that we've been through this pandemic and I've seen the city's empty like everybody has left the cities and they've bought houses where, you know, they've gone back home or they've gone other place.

35:47 Now they don't a lot of them have been working remotely and don't have to be in the the city's. So I'm wondering if that's going to have an impact on how population gets distributed because people don't need to congregate. If your if your virtual work right now you can work anywhere. The Moore company said that gold virtual and get rid of office space. What time is it and what this is going to do to the distribution of the population cuz I feel like if I was in the city, you know, whatever financial markets were happy, but now I don't have to be in the city. I could be at my country house or my beach house or wherever it is that I am and do my work. I think that's going to change the dynamic of the country and possibly the pilot fixed. I'm not sure about the Electoral College. I really feel like I I need to educate myself before. I don't, what I know is that I don't know.

36:47 The more I look, the more I try to go out. I really need to get to work. So I really feel that I am glad we're having this conversation because, and I feel like, now I need to have more of these conversations with many more different perspectives across the country because I, I have my little window that I operate from and I really need to expand my horizons. That's what I've come to the conclusion that I need to do. One of the. Yeah. Make me also, I love these texts conversation. One of the things that I think I've learned. I'm not sure I understand it. But his story, anytime you have a large Congregation of people did ancient Rome to New York City to whatever today. People are naturally more Progressive open-minded and liberal, if it doesn't matter.

37:47 It just always always is in. The reason for that is that was so many people together, you either get along and and put up with each other even though you despise that person or falters in classes with your class have Anarchy. And I think what's happening, is that the big cities because of buying power and so are so influencing the market? And this is where I was going before. Is that what scares me even more than crazy? Republican some crazy liberals and crazy Independence is Coca-Cola Google Amazon because what they are doing is, they are taking your boat in my boat away and they are now controlling us more than our government because suddenly, their power is to influence of social change. Whichever way they believe is the best for them. But like, when they're doing, is it Coca-Cola at the classic ends, or other words with Coca-Cola? I did not tell

38:47 The world that because of their pop and all the sugar is in it, that it's really making the diabetic situation worldwide worse. I mean, they're not a law but, you know, it's so what do they do to make sure you don't look like a magician? You don't let one hand know what the other is doing this. You're entertaining the troops so to speak. And this has all these social justice programs and things that were helping Community climate. We're giving money to mental. Help me out. We are so good. You guys have got to just love our products. Look at all the hits self centered and it's the one thing we got to make money money drives. Everything and money is essential, but when it drives a whole social program where you, and I don't get a choice but to speak, that's, that's terrifying to me.

39:40 So then that leaves me to money and politics and how do we? So we don't have a voice. The people with all of the money in the resources, have the boys and we're kind of left to

39:55 We're kind of left to whatever comes out of that. What are your thoughts about money and politics? Should we have? So there be limit? Should we should there be some sort of change in our laws to limit money and politics?

40:12 I think the water if I knew, if I knew the answer, I'll be running for office. But I don't know the thing that I think there's a couple things really have to be done. Number one is in the political process. When we do our nomination for the president. It should be 90 days. Max troubles me so much is after every election. It doesn't matter. Who's elected on the next day. We start already running for years. They have people are burnt out, they don't care. And that's what's dangerous, when people don't care because of the burnout Factor even more than the money.

40:54 Because the people that have the money always know what they influence politicians with donations. And so they they just watched the tide and they take the appropriate time to insert their money and they're in my money is not going to insult anybody. So it's it's big business.

41:18 So, so term limits, what about that? We think that's not a good idea. I used to always be against them. And the reason for that is because it's too easy.

41:41 Or people just to say he was him. I'll just check them off again. He did okay, but there's no thinking process if you keep somebody in power too long, they become fixated and people just put them in because if if we get something in South Dakota that I represented the put in and he or she's been there for 22 years old, but they have been done good for 20 years. And I think in an AR State, I don't know about New York, but we have term limits for the governor and all the other positions and I think that should be

42:12 Put back on the federal quickly, throw this in, for what it's worth. I wish the Seventeenth Amendment never existed and that's where the states lost the right for the senatorial representation cuz it said it was never meant to represent you. And I it was for each state to have a piece of the federal system. So they could put their ears and that was a major mistake. I think they make the citizens vote for the Senators estate body should have done that. But I know the problems with that, I understand that but I don't know if you see that in New York or lower.

42:55 What happens. If the incumbent usually stays the incumbent until until they die?

43:05 But yeah, you know, our governor, our governor just resigned. So now we have a woman a woman in charge right now. So that's a that's a different thing for us in New York. And she happens to be from from the Buffalo, New York area. So, we'll see how that goes in general. Is the people who are a pathetic who don't vote who don't, who don't care, who don't understand, why they should be voting or they don't understand why they should educate themselves on the issues. They don't understand how the government work. They don't understand history. This, this really frustrates me when I run into people who who, who have who just stay on, you know, what else doesn't matter to me. Dad gets me upset and I feel like I need to educate them.

44:05 In NR process. What do you think about that? I think I think our educational system K through 12 is a mess. Now. They want the state to control going. I don't want any more federalism and but each day that they'd really have to look what our children were taken courses on how to how to write a website. What does that have to do with anything other than it's just a waste of time. The thing I would really like to see if she tries to education change from people to people don't even know where Afghanistan is because they never were given geography. And you know, just the base. I think if we went back to 1930s on how education basically was structured not always content with the structure of the other thing. I would just love to see if you can't have a Republican or Democrat symbol by the name.

45:07 We lose your dog. I'm here. We've gone. So that's what I'm hearing is, we've gone through. We hear some Lots with, your scientific knowledge, engineering and math, where kids need to focus and they need to focus on the taking the test and teachers, don't have the creativity that they need. They are not able to interject the creativity that they need to address every student where they are. So I feel like we definitely need to address the education system in our country. Particularly Civics education. I really think we are missing the ball and there are too many young people right now in my Spear of influence, Devo know why, why should I vote? That is just unacceptable to me and I feel, we really need to get a handle on her population. The entire population of other junk people or maybe, now with the K through 12.

46:07 I don't know if we'll be able to reach people after after, you know, in their twenties and thirties. Unless something big happens to shake their world. I don't know, I try to have conversations with my nieces and my nephew's, but it I seem like I had a brick wall. So I really think we need to come up with some creative way to get people in this country to understand that. This is a democracy doesn't work. Unless your participate and you need to be educated and informed and you need to understand what's going on. Only locally, but nationally and how your government works. And I feel people don't understand how that works. And that's why we are in a lot of where we are with this polarization. So that's that's kind of where I'm at. And if we could do something and education and get more people educated about democracy in the process of the importance of participation. I would be thrilled. I would be too. If you don't nothing that I find. So fascinating since people don't marry kisstory could care less about it.

47:03 That one of the things I learned when World War 2 is one of my main areas of ancient Rome is that Adolf Hitler said I don't care about the 20. People note when you're older people. Give me your you and I'll change the world.

47:19 You know what he's talking about because he had all that brown shirts. And that, you know, the youth Nazi party. If he would have been in power much longer, he would have had a whole nother generation that would have followed him over the cliff. And so, I think this ability to educate and be in control of it and not being balanced or people that is a huge possibility of a problem in the very near future and that again become big business, cuz I'll get a Microsoft Windows and I'm going to get your school a million dollars, aren't I? Nice?

47:52 Thought, so it goes against.

47:55 Well, that's my two cents. I agree. I agree. Also, it looks like we so it looks like

48:12 What are both important meeting important to you? I think we're kind of, we can work together and really make it make a difference in helping to solve, you know, solve the problem or or make or get closer stuff, And I feel that if we can do more, if we can share more of what we just went through here with our people, in our Spears, and they can do the same and have the same experience. And we can share this experience and get other people to talk more about their feelings, and their thoughts, and what's important to them and in kind of tuned out the news media and, and, and, and maybe get some rain in our politicians, whether it's getting the money out of politics or limiting, the money and politics, and giving them some, some term limits. I think we can make some progress there, but we need a whole lot of us.

48:59 Coming bearing our way forward on the systems to be able to do that. One final thing I have quickly is that older or not horizontal yet? I have learned so much on one thing that I never gave any thought to. And that's the understanding of Elders in society throughout history in the world. We are overlooking the most important asset this country has. And that's our elders right now. I'm starting to get closer. I have left at the end that I have to be coming. We need to incorporate stories and reasons. Why elderly people should be Listen to Not Just For Good Old story, my grandma and grandpa if they needed this far for a reason they survived.

49:54 Am I a full that the generation come up this? Not have enough failure? Or enough ability to really survive, because if we lose electricity,

50:06 Your whole system will collapse. The one book I used when I was teaching social problems with called one second after.

50:16 It's the most only but I've ever had students asked me where they could buy it. Not what I heard that I knew it was a good selection and I've had more people comment on people who had Now read it because it tells you exactly how you can go from 2021 to about 1310 in 3 days or less.

50:39 It's it's just a fascinating book. But anyway, that's why Elder served 14 in the book gives you ideas and why?

50:47 That I'm going to get that book and read it.