Heather Lustig-Curran and Greg Lingo

00:00 My name is Greg. Allen. Lingo, my age is 67.

00:06 Today is June 24th, 2021 and I live in Henrico, Virginia. And my partner today would be is Heather.

00:19 My name is Heather current. Actually, my full name is Heather. Lee loustic Kern long name. I am 49 years. Old. Today is Thursday, June 24th, 2021. I live in Louisa County right outside of Richmond. My recording partner, is Greg. And he is my one small step conversation partner.

00:41 So,

00:43 Greg, I am curious. Why did you want to do the interview today?

00:58 I think since I retired.

01:00 I bugger too much when I want to have conversations about what's ever happening in the world today.

01:09 Politics War. I don't care what it is and she's like, you know, you really like to talk about this stuff, but I got a job and you're driving me nuts. So this might give you a

01:20 Option, you know, a way to get the vent this stuff out the some of them may be interested. Go ahead and go for it. So that's cool.

01:40 Yeah, I heard about, I think I want to say, I either heard about it on the radio and I was driving into work or I may be read about it on an email. But I remember hearing about it and I thought I was just really excited about the idea of you, know. I don't know. Just like, you know, trying to trying to do something because I bribed work, you know, it's very much, you know, there's definitely a political divide in the county and you know what to see in across the country. And from me I was like, well, maybe this is a way we can show how to have a you know a good conversation with someone. Even if maybe we don't completely agree on everything, talk to one another and do the right thing and be kind to each other. But again, civil discourse is somewhat lacking and almost everything you see today and I'm and it's sad. But you know, I am. I'd like to

02:40 And I think my wife feels too sweaty. We both are very moderate. We don't particularly care to

02:49 To get into it. So when we're with our friends that we know are on more further from the center. We just don't we don't try to go there. If we can open that all avoid it. If it goes that way, we just figure a way to not get too far out there. But yeah, but no go for. It is interesting.

03:25 I guess it was for ya. The governor and I was surprised because he was African-American and I guess that's you know, you know Democrats so we were really. We talked to him on the porch for a while and we had a really nice discussion, but I don't you know, I don't see myself in any part because I don't I just I'm kind of not a party guy anymore. I think I was but I'm not anymore. So

03:58 And I told him my wife and I both so we try to take the commons Common Sense approach to all of this because if you get too caught up in other, it just we just drive it. I guess we just want to take a common-sense approach.

04:15 So I'll ask you your teacher. You're probably more on the front lines of this. We say this, if you want to call it a dichotomy or whatever, in our culture.

04:27 And you have to make decisions that are really like, you know, there there there. It's happening right now. You've got it. It's not like I can talk about it, and it's kind of a cereal and its philosophical. Even that yours is really where the rubber meets the road. I guess it's a term many things we can talk about it, as a teacher, is a tough, and plus the pandemic you've been kids haven't been going to school. So, how's that working out for you? Well, with Louisa, we are actually started on day one. We actually brought students into the building, we offered them. And so, for the last year, I had two classes with students in the classroom, and I would see each group 2 days a week, and then I had a class of birth wall and that I will be honest.

05:22 I've been teaching since 1994 and I felt like I was student teaching and being a first-year teacher all over again. I have not been this exhausted in a long time. Having two children, who was easier than his last school year, but you know, it's kind of like when my child. What I was told my kids, you know, it came, it happened and it went tonight. I did my best I could, and I put my best foot forward. It's it is hard, you know, because as a teacher, my biggest goal is to have my students learn about critical thought. It's not an answer on the test. It is how do you arrive at your answer? And how do you prove and validate your answer? And it's hard because my students come in and, you know, they have so many different types of opinions and they want to hear mine and I'm like, my opinion doesn't matter.

06:14 I have my diplomas. I have my certifications. I I can think. And I'm I'm actually a lot like you. I am I consider myself an independent when it comes to voting and that's the other thing is like I don't really have an answer. Like, what, which way do you vote? Miss? Colonel likes doesn't matter. I was like, I actually teach a collaborative freshman. So these are a lot of students who have been, who have special education needs. And so I was in 4 years from now, you'll be the ones voting for president and you need to know how to think for yourselves and it's hard. It's it's especially this last year because

06:58 They quickly will didn't, you know, students reach their exhausted as well.

07:05 Yes, I would imagine. Do you think the parents? You think the kids today? Okay, I'll I'll I'll probably I'll bring up. My I have two kids. One of them just graduated from college and the other one dropped Outta College. I find it. I think my son mimics or follows my wife and I more. But my daughter goes the other way. How much influence do you think parents still have? Considering there is so much social media there. So many other sources, I mean, when an egg, and I'm older than you, so growing up, there was a half hour of news every night. It was either Walter, Cronkite, huntley-brinkley, or Harry Reasoner, you know.

07:54 So, do you see parents still having that much hard for you to see? Cuz, you know, you only got the kids in school. But do you know, how do you feel that? Where are they getting their influences from? I guess that's a better question. I think when it comes to political influences, I think that does come from the parents. Just looking at students, whether it is the students who were very Republican and, you know, the Trump t-shirts, or my students who were, you know, where Democrat in the bike riding shirts? Or even the mask that was interesting. Watching them walk around wearing masks.

08:35 Advertising their political ideologies. I think that, I think their political viewpoints definitely come from the family. I do have, you know, some students who definitely think differently from their parents. They would talk about their private beliefs, or their personal identities. And it was clear that they were in conflict with her parents. It was hard because sometimes the kids really, please don't tell my family and I'm like, I got you. And, but a lot of times, I think when it comes to lytic lie, I've always told myself as like, you know, when you're 18 and a lot of times you're going to vote with your parents. It's somewhere between 18 and 22. Is when you'll start making your own decisions for yourself because you're going to come and start being having more influence as whether it's, if you go to college, if you start flow, is he going to the business sector? And if you go into the military, is that what I think?

09:35 A lot of things, a social media influences, that's going to be more in terms of us, can be more personal choices. My son is 20, and he and I talked a lot about politics and letting my daughter is 17. And I would say that the two of them, we'd let you know, we share a lot of political, a lot of political similar points there more left than I am. And my husband has in the last election. He's definitely because he's moved more conservative and so definitely for my kids, but

10:17 I don't know that social media has influence them so much as their own research cuz that's something also teach my children, the same thing to teach my students. Whatever you see on the news, read it, listen to it. But then fact check. What is the reality? What is the truth that you need to find really took it more? I said, you know don't go to One Source review.

10:50 Sources. But from different directions, if you will, the thread, that's the truth of it, I started late. That's okay. Stuck in such a big part of

11:28 Our reality today. And again, you know, since we have children that are close to the same age.

11:36 That you know, they they do come to you and they're like, you know, what do you think of this or what just happened today? Or, you know it?

11:43 You know, you try to, you know, you try to season it a certain way, you know, I mean, you know that was weird back in the day, but now everybody's doing it because the pandemic. So now we're mainstream but

12:08 Again, it was kind of like we were this a liar because we didn't do it for religious reasons cuz you look, there's a big home school and we didn't do it for any other reason. Why I think my wife we had the kids in public school for about a year or two on a couple things happened. That just weren't really good. I'm so I said fine. I'll do it myself and my wife was a publicly held Corporation when she was 29 years old. So that classically shattered a long time ago, and I know she's always was anxious to get back to work. And then she said she want to be close to kids or just felt like she could do a good job at it. I don't know to me and like my wife.

13:08 You're not going to go back to making a six-figure income. Again. What anyway?

13:16 But yes, I should be. So that's, that's what we did. So I guess we have a lot of. We had a lot of influence on them since we were there. My wife, my kids slur for younger, because the large territory had the whole Mid-Atlantic area that I had to cover. So I was gone a lot, so and a lot of national travel to so wow.

13:41 Yeah. From me and my husband are both civil servants. And so, you know, when it, when we had our children, there was no choice. But, you know, we both knew we had to work for the high school where I taught at the time. We actually just moved to Louisa about two years ago. And so, yeah, we until we had no choice and, you know, cuz we had talked about whether or not I would homeschool her kids and I'll be honest. I also knew that I'm not, I would never be a good stay-at-home, mom. I I would just I'll go crazy with the constant, you know, cuz I tried to teach our kids, how to read and well that was perilous it fast and how to make the th sound and so, but yeah, cuz I'm thinking about that. I think the probably the biggest influence

14:41 I grew up in and I'm an army brat and I spent about 6 years minimal in Germany and then I was still continuing going back to in college. And so, my parents live, there 6 months a year. So my children have gone to Germany. They have seen in a various. You know, they've my daughter's been to Italy and I was one of the kids realize is that the zip code in which we live is not what the rest of the world is. And I think that's probably the biggest and most important lesson be imparted to them. And so I can't remember where I was going. I was bouncing off of something you said, but yeah, I'm homeschooled.

15:27 He was being bullied for a while and it was hard to tell know and it wasn't because I didn't want her that time. He was in Middle School and I would have been a much better teacher for him. Except I would have really fail them. At math. I learned how to do it. Just your basic multiplication division everything and then there was the new math and then there was her brother. The answers to biology degree. So, you know, what's ironic is, I wanted to be a marine biologist that made me decide not to go into the field.

16:27 I did to muscle physiology and then I took, marene microbiology, ichthyology, and these other things. Cuz when I was living in Norfolk in this, cuz I'm from Norfolk. I say no. If they were building Nautilus or actually before that it was supposed to be the Jacques Cousteau Saturday. Remember that? I've actually been there, remember petting the nurse dark. It was really cool. Cristo at his Center there and something fell through, it didn't work out. And now of course, it's a naval museum. I was like, you know, that's what I want to do. I want to come in and

17:18 And actually one of the guys I went to school with his I think he's still head up. The the Marine Museum in Virginia Beach to so I need the North Carolina. Have a state have like three or four aquariums along the coast in North Carolina and I worked at the one in Manteo was really cool baby turtles and that we had a couple albino loggerheads and it was just really very fascinating just going in and feeding. I end up going in more to healthcare then money's better. I just wanted to do and then I hit chemistry and was failing it and I had a good teacher and I just, but I figured nor did it, you know, give Dolphins shots or something. I can have no chemistry. So my joke is

18:18 Right now. And then I'll come into my into my classroom with my Swedish Fish and like one guides.

18:25 I'm not a good teacher, but I can entertain you.

18:31 So sorry, I have a curiosity and reading your bio. You wrote about you wrote that you attended school during the massive resistance and segregation. And for me, I mean,

18:44 Like, you know, that was such an interesting thing to read about and the teacher, and I'll be on the right. And I'm always collecting stories wherever I can snag them. I was wondering if you could talk, or if you'd be willing to talk more about what that was, like, seeing Massive Resistance. I think went from, like 57 to 61 or 62. I grew up in my dad was a white Anglo-Saxon redneck. From Princess Anne County in which is now, Virginia, Beach, New York.

19:34 And so I grew up in a family where I never heard anything about race. I never heard anything about rice.

19:44 And when I went to school, there were no black children in my school, but then I noticed the school next door, which is a Publix to olders and

19:58 All the sudden when we went out to play Recess, there was nobody out there playing recess because they did they shut down the school. They basically before they would integrate and Norfolk again where I was from is one of the centers as well. As you know, Warrenton is a lot of cities and I don't know how tall is brought to court black children. Trying to get into the Norfolk school system of like 13 kids and have a lot of history and keeping up with all of it just pulled up here. So it wasn't all I know is that when we had our first black student come in I felt as a as a kid. I didn't think this way is a kid. It was like

20:58 More the side shows at the carnival bearded lady. Let's go see the whatever the snake headed man. It's like wow. There's a black kid in school and it was looking back today. How terrible it must have been for him because he was a spectacle kids to be wanting to see this black kid in school for the first time as time went on and the schools became segregated, but still I'd never had that many black kids in my school. So again, very few interactions didn't see a whole lot of black kids. I remember when I got to Lake Taylor. I made a friend that was a

21:58 Young man, and but then things got bad when the busing started and we actually had a walk out in the police were there with their dogs and it was peaceful for the most part, nothing bad happened, but it's still pretty bad to look out your window and seeing, you know, 50 or 60 police officers with dogs and, and the marching and but anyway, there was a lot of kids at Lake Taylor. Apparently, Taylor didn't want their kids having to go all the way to Booker T. I'll bet it did, they did it. One of my good friends all the time here in Richmond.

22:46 And he said my mom remarried when I was 15 when we moved to Virginia Beach. And again and said, I never heard anything. I never I think I started hearing things.

23:16 Call the Middle School negative, and I'm going out to the Disco and dancing with the I look back and I can see things that I didn't see when I was a kid, cuz my mom, I guess growing up in Connecticut and Italian family. She used to bring lemonade or tea out to the garbage man and summer time. And as I look back, I'm thinking that probably rub a lot of people on the street, the wrong way and see my mom going out and giving.

24:12 Because it was dark and said, I did it again. Didn't think about it at the time, but as I've gotten older, I can kind of brush retrospectively, look back at the things in my life. And I think you're still relatively younger than me, but I think that really, really then you go back home. I've been like looking back at so much of my life and trying to figure it out what I did. Why did it? How I ended up here in? Oh, so I'm sorry that that get you too much of the massive resistance thing. I found myself teaching, African Americans about Massive Resistance.

25:12 Be a recital with my daughter and it's in the recital and they were like a, why is why they changing the name of Byrd Middle School to pee ottoson, middle school? And I wait, what's that all about? And they're both African-American kids. And they were like 13 years old now. And I'm like, what was Senator Byrd was explaining to them with massive resistance. I'm like why? I'm their parents taught them about this. Maybe they don't want to. Is it something that you want to share with your children? Is something you don't want to share with your children. I would think today from everything I see you. Do you want to share this with your kids but it's always cool. When I wanted to say that. I have a dream speech and I was going in, this is homeschool.

26:12 You're the right there. Are you too?

26:18 If you will figure it out for myself and may not like I said, I'm just under 50 and one of the most interesting things for me as a teacher's. I've also taught at the University level and I used to teach it at Strayer University, which is predominantly serving older adults ranging in a basically between. You are my ages and I remember really having this really important conversation. Once I was I had these three black women are my students and I would say they're, they were closer in age to you Greg.

27:02 And what they talked about and I can remember they stayed after class. We started talking, and I'm so thankful for these women, because they talked about what it was like, Marching In the civil rights movement. And the one thing they told, one of the things that they talked about, that really stuck with me, is they said they couldn't understand why, their grandchildren always sit in the back of the bus.

27:23 And these women talked about how they said they would, they will never ever ever sit anywhere, but on the very front seat, right? Behind the bus driver unit for the rest of their lives. And it was interesting. It was something that for myself. You know, I've always taken for granted. It doesn't matter where I sit, you know, just the spot that's available and, you know, and that stood out to me, it's hard for a lot of people that haven't, that aren't black to really go back through the history on. My brother-in-law was saying something the other day and I'm unlike any, you know, you wasn't, it wasn't.

28:07 Bad racist, you know, wasn't it wasn't bad words, things like that, but he was saying kind of a get over it sort of statement, and I'm like, you know, you have to fix the past 40 years doesn't make up for 400. Somebody raped your daughter.

28:31 In the South during weather 40s 50s, whatever you have. No one to go to, you had no reason to go to the sheriff. You couldn't go to the police. You couldn't go you just at times. And if you did, you could be hurt that. You don't understand what it's like that there is nobody, that's got your back and maybe some of your friends, but the wall is not behind you. The justice system is not behind you. There's nothing. That's that's a small part. And take the time to study this. Then it's going to be hard for you to understand.

29:26 You know, the Supreme Court decisions that pretty much reversed the Thirteenth Fourteenth and Fifteenth Amendments that I have found out that I have slave owners in my family, or at least one that I found slaves, and they might have been house servants, but it doesn't make a difference. I just know. That's, that's that's what it is. I do, I do. I feel guilty even if it was.

30:10 I don't feel I have the guilt or anything. I feel is more generalized. It's not my relation or anything. It's just what happened and how it happened. So, long before things were put right? And there still more that needs to be done. One of them. There's things that I would like to work on it, be involved in, but it's just hard to do.

30:40 That's another conversation that you really, really have to understand to be denied, education to be denied work to be denied, a place to live, a good place to live, to be denied all these things.

31:07 So when someone says something like well, get over it. I'm like, you know, I'm not now. There is no getting over it. To bounce off of what you said. I've been attending an education conference for the last two days and the keynote speakers for the last four yesterday, morning, in this morning have also have both been black. Women would probably get her name wrong. Her name is Ruby and I can on my roof ridges or Bridges. She was the six-year-old girl, who was the first child to basically serve at, to integrate, New Orleans schools, and she's actually the subject of the famous Norman Rockwell painting. And it was so interesting, listening to her talk about what it was like, walking through mobs. And we were not a mob of people and she was a six-year-old little girl. And people would actually bring black baby dolls and put them in child size coffins as a as a threat again.

32:07 I know I choose a 6 year old girl and then similar late this morning and I I wish I could remember her name is professor. And again, is talking about, you know, the uncomfortable conversations that need to happen. But at the same time and doing so of recognizing that through education, we can create inclusivity that we can teach all stories and that we can bring forward everybody's histories and those truths about ISM, actually building a creative writing program here with the intention of ever going to start La digital literary magazine where I want the students to know that all of their voices are important and that and that's what it is called, voices of the pride and it's worth. That's what I'm just really excited because again, it's about inclusivity where

33:00 You don't have to be within a certain demographic and hoarder had to have significance. Everybody, everybody. Bring something to this global global dining room table. What is your story? And that's what I'm excited about, you know, and, and so hearing what you're saying, you know, just like you said is, it's

33:21 You don't get over it.

33:24 But you teach it.

33:26 Everybody know I'm sorry. I'm kind of following, you know, a little rabbit rabbit hole in the Wonderland. So and more the number of books that I've read and actions has plenty of people but most people are not going to pick up the book. I'm reading two more right now that I'm about the great migration of blacks from the South during the turn of the twentieth century up until like 1970 and it's fascinating because it really gets into some of the nitty-gritty. Some of the smallest little things that you would never imagine what it's worth and the difficulties.

34:16 It just in in in that it's it wasn't like, you know, it's the promised land and everything's great now and we know we can sit back and relax. It wasn't, it's not, it was, it was really, really, really hard for these people to pick up and leave everything behind. So, I will just real quick. I said something about the Civil Rights, you might like this, but your Scottish even though my mom is Sicilian, which is DeMarco, but she do during the Civil Rights.

35:01 1960s, obviously George Wallace to infuse. I'm sorry. It's all good. His henchmen was a guy named Al lingo at the same time.

35:24 There was a civil rights worker on the other side.

35:28 That's named Al lingo. I don't know if you ever saw. There's a picture of a guy pouring bleach in a pool because there are okay. There's a white guy running towards to enforce the white guy in the white guy is I'll link up so you got to our lingos on opposite ends. Now first off you go in any city in the United States. If you pick up a phone book, which I know they're going to make some books anymore. But when there were so there would be maybe 5 lingos. It's just not a lot out there. And for those two to be to have that same name and be on opposite ends of the fight. Always struck me as so odd that you know that it would sadly for me that was with George. Wallace has gone. He died many, many years ago.

36:26 Pittsburgh. And I've tried to reach out to him to find out as much as I can, to see if there is a relation and Skip more about him but he's not responded. I even wrote to skates about, you know, doing the roots thing. Yeah, see if it would be. Okay, so

37:10 That's my little civil rights thing you there, but

37:15 I'm a Vietnam vet, too, but I did not go there. I want to make that clear. My dad served in Thailand during the end of the war right? After I was born the Army Air Force Army.

37:35 So I'm one of my good buddies with some and stationed in Thailand. He's there for some tile and yet, very dangerous job, just enough for something was shot down. Dad to send out somebody to where it was shot down. Take to get to it and pull out. All the equipment is safe.

37:56 Play that song I was up but I went through the same where even though I was never there. If you were in uniform, you still got slighted. You still got spit on, you still got a lot of them.

38:08 The bad rap so. So I guess the thing I guess the point is that even though I'm not black. I've been in situations before where, you know, people who made it just for the uniform. I wore or maybe because I was Sicilian. I look more like my mom than my my siblings and

38:33 I guess the other part, it just

38:38 It's just it's you know, I will put the other thing too. And I was in Biloxi, Mississippi. They despise it wasn't the Vietnam War. They just hate the military, they scrape with somebody because it was that dangerous to go off base. So, I mean, especially when I used to teach Tim O'Brien, The Things They Carried, I would have the Vietnam veterans come in and talk about their experiences and they said very similar points of one talked about when the day he came back from Vietnam. He walked into the airport and immediately went to the bathroom and had to change out of his uniform because he was, he was being accosted. And they talk

39:38 One one that talked about being punched by a Harry, Krishna of all people.

39:51 So anyway, so that will be. So, I've been in that bucket before 2 so I can remember one time. And again, it's odd cuz people think lingos Italian, I don't know why I even though it does, but I was dating a girl and I went up to her house to pick her up on a date, and I heard her, and her mother fighting with each other and it was summer time. So their windows were open and she said, I don't care what you say. I don't want you going out with that Gigi WAP.

40:31 Are we not? When I get in the time we got the 10 in the 5 in the 2. So, I don't know if we fit time or so.

40:41 So, I don't know if