James McLaughlin and Lee Smart

[00:03] JAMES MCLAUGHLIN: All right.

[00:05] LEE SMART: Yep.

[00:05] JAMES MCLAUGHLIN: All right. So say your name.

[00:07] LEE SMART: My name is Jim McLaughlin

[00:09] JAMES MCLAUGHLIN: How old. How old are you?

[00:14] LEE SMART: 84.

[00:15] JAMES MCLAUGHLIN: Yes. And today's date?

[00:17] LEE SMART: A young 84. Yes. Today's date was a. In Boston, Massachusetts. Grew up in Boston, Massachusetts.

[00:32] JAMES MCLAUGHLIN: And what's today's date?

[00:33] LEE SMART: Today's date is 31st July. Yeah, 31 July.

[00:39] JAMES MCLAUGHLIN: And where are we now?

[00:40] LEE SMART: We are in Scarborough. Yeah. Scott Scarborough, Maine. Right here in the lovely parks. New England provide a lot of excitement and some beautiful beaches, great landscapes, fishing and hunting, and all sorts of things that are available here for most ambitious people.

[01:10] JAMES MCLAUGHLIN: And I'm his daughter, Leanne.

[01:13] LEE SMART: Oh, yes, this is Leanne.

[01:16] JAMES MCLAUGHLIN: So. So the reason why I wanted to do this, dad, is to have you have an opportunity to talk about your military career. You've told me some stories, but I'd be interested to know when you decided to join the military or why.

[01:35] LEE SMART: Probably never really had a point in time, if you will, to join the military. Had no real reason except sounded like a tremendous opportunity to go and see the world and other things, and in other cases, provide a service to the american public and hopefully provide a very accurate. Oh, an accurate viewpoint of the trials and tribulations of military people, all of which are very interesting. They're very exciting in a lot of cases, sometimes not so exciting. There's a lot of drab and downtime associated with many of the careers of these people that are willing to risk their life, if you will, out in the oceans. We don't always spend our time in the middle of the ocean, but for most cases, you signed up for a nazi career. You hope that you provide the best possible picture. Picture of the mosquito.

[03:14] JAMES MCLAUGHLIN: It's a dog.

[03:15] LEE SMART: My dog just bit my knee. But anyway, I did start out right after college. I went to the Massachusetts Maritime Academy up there in Buzzards Bayou. So I've always been around the oceans, always owned a boat, always provided exciting, you know, spare times, if you will, providing these kind of supports.

[03:53] JAMES MCLAUGHLIN: And so what ship were you on when you first joined the military?

[03:57] LEE SMART: Oh, yes, I think so. Okay.

[04:02] JAMES MCLAUGHLIN: What ship was it a long time?

[04:05] LEE SMART: It was. I believe the first commissioned ship was a navy tanker, which provided fuels, tons and tons of fuel to operating forces. So you spend a lot of time running from one port to another port to either load cargo without paying the oil, oil and gas or food or ammunition. Yeah, the fuel, of course, to keep the shapes of the ships moving over the ocean and also providing.

[05:04] JAMES MCLAUGHLIN: Maybe replenishments. Maybe. It sounds like replenishments.

[05:07] LEE SMART: Oh, replenishment. My goodness. How can I ever forget that? My job at the time, right after I was commissioned and things like that and started operating in the fleet, and I was what they called a main propulsion assistant, which was my responsibility to maintain that little oil light didn't drop off in the bottom of the ocean and we could continue steaming and sometimes steaming on the oceans on the ship this side, they're pretty exciting because you can wake up in the morning with the next watch and realize that there are twelve foot seas over your head and your ship is bowed down in the water, then back up again and everybody is all smiling and having a wonderful time, courtesy of Uncle Sam. And the last thing you want to do is you get too close because you're apt to slip and fall and bang your head. And sometimes that has actually happened, and it happens both times, but it's an exciting career. I know that none of my. I have seven rooms. Yeah. Six.

[06:34] JAMES MCLAUGHLIN: Six and two sisters.

[06:36] LEE SMART: Yeah, two sixes and two six year old. Two six brothers. Six brothers and a couple of sisters that didn't go to sea at all. They kind of hang around and wave their flags and. But anyways, getting underway for ship is pretty exciting business because, number one, it's all business and there's no messing around. There's no goofing off to speak of. Sometimes a little skylark in the hair and skylarking there. But nobody really ever takes a lot of notice of that because you're there for one reason, is to keep that ship running, to keep it operational, to keep the bad guys away and the good guys warm and comfortable in their bunks. And during that period of time, I spent numbers of foreign countries.

[07:43] JAMES MCLAUGHLIN: What are some of your favorite places you stopped at?

[07:46] LEE SMART: Whoa.

[07:47] JAMES MCLAUGHLIN: Ports of call. Where were some of your favorites?

[07:52] LEE SMART: That was always, you always had a favorite, favorite protocol. And it all depend on a lot of times driven by the weather. If the ship has gone up and down, bow coming up and splashing down and people holding on, that's not such a fighting a fun time. However, you realize in the back of your mind that this is a necessary and somewhat uncomfortable job. And I've seen a lot of stuff at sea, if you will. I've seen collisions. I've seen. I haven't seen any grounding. In other words, the ship going to the ship.

[08:42] JAMES MCLAUGHLIN: Well, that's good.

[08:43] LEE SMART: It should be moving. Yeah. Not very interesting. But mostly the ships are very well maintained. I think the average sailor is somewhat enamored by his unusual occupation. A lot of them sometimes spend a lot of time along the side and over the sides internal composition leaves you at the most, the most inopportune times, if you will. The crews as a whole are tremendous. They are very, very well maintained. Most of them are happy to be where they are or proud to be there where they are, out of the ocean. And then it's a group of them that would never be happy with anything. So you get the big cross of personalities and there's no doing or undoing how they feel. Their own private worlds are their own private worlds. And I've seen a lot of people who not very happy. I've seen people who are very happy, even though they're getting soaked up on the bridge of a ship or higher position, people screaming at them because they're doing everything wrong. Then you really, really work to correct those errors. Because I won't say it's a sign of weakness. It's a sign of learning your job and doing it, and doing it well. And I've seen some of the most fantastic sailors, I think, that sail these ships, I mean, really fun people, serious people, honest people, and there are some that aren't so, so sweet and nice. You know, it's something you have to do, really, because you're out here and you can't do anything else. And you find there's a great range of personalities of people who, number one, didn't want to be there because they get drafted. Other people are. They went out to make a name for themselves, a career, meet other people. And then, of course, the foreign ports, that goes without saying. All sorts of people, various sizes and colors, what all sometimes provide entertainment, sometimes they don't.

[11:45] JAMES MCLAUGHLIN: What was your favorite port like? Where was your favorite place that you stopped?

[11:49] LEE SMART: The most favorite, favorite place I stopped. Usually your most favorite port is one which wasn't your doing. You know, you kind of hope, yeah, I'd love to do that. I'd love to that. But no, times that doesn't happen. So what you do, you do the best you can with what you have. And my favorite port, you just, I don't think it can be measured in the sense of, yeah, this is my favorite port at abcdehenite country or that, because it always changes. Always things are happening. And by the time you get ready to really feel good about something, bank, something happens. And it's not because they're not doing their job. It's just that nature takes a huge, huge part of how, how good you feel, how lousy you feel, how wet you feel, how roll sideways and backwards you feel. And then you sometimes can talk to people who are very, very Smart Sometimes you feel some odds, old Smart and that's a rarity, because the Navy people, I think, are overall very well trained. They learn how to put up with things. They learn how to just kind of go with the flow when things get tough. And when you come in a port, you just not want to hit anything. That's a no no. You don't want to run the ship around. Of course not. You stay out of the way with the people you don't like. And then a lot of times you just have a really good time. And we do have a lot of, I think, valuable lessons learned to say. I mean, you can't learn everything, but you can learn a great deal. And those situations sometimes come out of the clear blue sky. Other times they just kind of sit there and drift and not drift in the sense of the ship sitting there doing nothing. But they're doing the best they can and to make the ship a better mission, if you would, for supporting the United States and its.

[14:30] JAMES MCLAUGHLIN: Freedom.

[14:31] LEE SMART: Really? Yeah, the freedom. Of course, that goes without saying. And I, unfortunately, have seen some very serious accidents at sea, all caused by weather. In my estimation, I've lost, unfortunately, people at sea, and that's a tough job to see a guy go over the side. And I experienced one. It was during a hurricane in the middle of the. I forget what they call that sea over there in Europe as a name, that name escapes me. But what it was, was called a mistral, and a mistral is a very strong, deep, very strong and very deep driven ocean storms. The oceanstorm, I guess, is the best way to characterize it. And I have seen more than my share in my short life of people not doing the right thing at the right time, goofing off. But for the most time, they were standing up straight, tall, being proud. And I enjoyed that more than anything.

[16:01] JAMES MCLAUGHLIN: So what can you tell me about the USS Richard E. Bird?

[16:05] LEE SMART: Oh, the Richard E. Bird.

[16:06] JAMES MCLAUGHLIN: What can you tell me about that ship in your time on the bird?

[16:10] LEE SMART: The Richard E. Byrd has an interest. Well, it's not an interesting name. It's a very proud name. Happens to be a New Englander, I think he was from Milton, Mass. And he was a world famous. He would go out and do all sorts of, I'm trying to put it in the right text, would go out and do scientific observations. They'd go out and there's a longer tour of duty you would be involved with going out and being part of that exercise or maintaining a very safe and very happy environment.

[17:05] JAMES MCLAUGHLIN: Were you not a plank owner of the ship?

[17:06] LEE SMART: Huh?

[17:07] JAMES MCLAUGHLIN: Weren't you a plank owner of the ship?

[17:09] LEE SMART: Oh, yeah, probably. You don't know what a plank owner is, you know, non sailor people. It was a plank owner. Plank owner was what you think it is. It's a piece of wood about x feet long, and it's x eight thick and this big. And a plank owner is that sailor who's sailing the ship because he was the first one aboard or one of the first one aboard. And plank owners tend to be very, very proud. I've been on. I've been a plank. I want to run a couple of ships. And, boy, I tell you, I'm a small guy. I stood tall, I thought, and we had a very, very, very competent ship. I was a guided missile destroyer. It was built up in bath, wasn't it? Yeah. No.

[18:03] JAMES MCLAUGHLIN: Was it in bath, or was it.

[18:05] LEE SMART: It was. It was in the Washington state.

[18:07] JAMES MCLAUGHLIN: Okay. Okay.

[18:08] LEE SMART: And it was built to Todd I, what we call Todd Seattle, that being the commissioning ship. And I, fortunately, was a plank owner. I was issued a plank, so to speak, as I walked aboard, stowed my sea bag on the ship. But anyways, everybody was proud to be a plank owner because you owned part of that ship. The actual work and the challenge of a plank owner is to make your ship the best ship, the cleanest ship, the one with the most rewards. Not rewards, but examples of what a fine navy ship does. And in my, I won't say short career on the bird, even though it was. I spent probably a little over, just over two years on the bird, that being almost a standard. A standard tour. And my goodness, you can see an awful lot of goods and bads of people and machinery, especially machinery that can really drive you crazy. And most of, well, again, these little things tend to happen, but by and large, the officers and men of a naval ship stand up for one thing, and that is to keep that ship operating, to keep it doing its. What it's supposed to do. To be as proud as you can, I guess, is the easiest way to describe how a good ship operates. And you have fine offices, fine the listed men, and then you have a few that you don't like to talk about because they just. I won't say they're near the walls, because most are sailors are top notch. But there's always, like in any society, difficulties with the management of the people and listening to the upper gas, upper guys or the upper sailors management that nobody liked or they disliked. But by and large, it's one fine operational unit in the United States. And I had a ball because, number one, it was one of the highest pressure ships that was available in the navy during that time frame. We had all brand new equipment. We had, well, we had torpedoes, we had bomb, not bombs, but other type of munitions. You know, little shells like this, shells that big, and they make an awful lot of noise. And you just hope that youre still awake when you're lying in bed and listen to that nice, smooth sound of a five inch. 38 going off right at your head. It's a lot of fun. And same thing with the deck. The deck crew, they were proud. Bunch, don't come on my deck and spit and throw a cigarette over the side. You don't do that. So not that all maybe ships are clean and spotless and friendly. They are probably inside. They're very proud of what they're doing. They will. Let's see, I'm trying to think of the word dambd, five letters of this ship, and let's run up into another ship that usually ends up with one of the senior petty officers. The old salts kind of laid a little heavy hand on the guys that are not performing. But most of the sailors are very happy people on their ship. They're very proud of their ships. And most ships who live under that type of an environment go around the world with their shoulders held back and stuff.

[22:42] JAMES MCLAUGHLIN: So what kind of lessons did you learn being at sea?

[22:47] LEE SMART: Oh, yeah, yeah. Lessons at sea is, you know, try to stay out of the water because, yeah, that'd be good because nothing good comes out of it if you end up in the drink, because now you got the whole crew, maybe two. We had just under 300 people when we first commissioned. Then it was a lower number, not because we needed lower number of sailors. It was just the way it was. They were put together, and you were either damning them or, you know, patting them on the side and ship going up and down. But it was, to me, very exciting on the destroyer. And we also had the prettiest, fastest, best skipper in the Mediterranean who had a speedboat for the captain. And the speedboat was a trying to think who made the engine, but it went like a son of a guy. He would go out bang, bang, bang, trying to get ashore. So you go first guy at liberty. But that type of stuff was always fun. And the fold was generally, generally pretty good. The guys who are the chefs, cooks, or whatever you want to call them, are very proud of what they do. And if they get a couple of attaboys from the crew or the captain or part of the crew that made you stand high because you knew you were satisfying. One of the first wants of a sailor to be warm, comfortable and well fed. Unfortunately, they're unisex. So that's just a big, shiny, gray ship that goes up and down and makes you a little nauseous sometimes. But you're not looking over the folks and really pretty girls out there water skiing. But it was a fun tour. I mean, a tour. And it was very well looked at because a brand new ship, and there aren't that many brand new ships in the fleet and the people on shore are looking, oh, man, what a beautiful ship. Well, some of them aren't so beautiful, but most of them are very well kept, very well maintained and generally well mannered and a good deal of fun. I know I had lots of fun in the navy, but, of course, being as an officer, you get away with a little bit more than you would support sailor out there.

[25:53] JAMES MCLAUGHLIN: So what kind of fun did you have, dad?

[25:55] LEE SMART: Well, very low.

[25:57] JAMES MCLAUGHLIN: You said you had some. What did you do?

[26:00] LEE SMART: Well, my fun was number one, maybe. Maybe making something brighter or sharper or more manageable than the next guy. You have a personal sense of pride of having done a well done and being patterned on the back floor, or if your ship performed well in a super manner that looked good, they were happy, they were smiles, they were well dressed. And then you have the other side that people didn't care. And normally that was done by, unfortunately, some ne'er do wells in the fleet or some officers who weren't quite as, I don't know, professional, maybe. Yeah, I won't go that far. But I would say they tend to use lousier language to no end. And it wasn't well tolerated, tolerated ownership, because then you. Then you can develop reputation of being a near do well or always complaining. Never has a nice thing to say. Always. Whatever that four letter word is mentioned, I don't remember what it is. And always looking forward to the first port. And then when you see a beautiful blue ocean in the Mediterranean, calm seas, these women that have these fantastically expensive boats that make fun of you as they drive over your pile and then turn around and come around and, yeah, we'd be sitting there and we won't be shaking our hands. We'd be probably, you know, screaming any yelling at them. But normally the foreigners liked us because we were. We had number one, a lot of classy shirts, a lot of performance ships, a very well maintained group of men. And nowadays there's a lot of women in the Navy and the officers, most very high class, and try to keep that stand, that, those standards up. I know as I. We went steaming, all of a sudden the captain would come across what they call the one Mc, that's the speaker goes over the ship. It comes up and we had to go something spectacular. We would all seem to drop everything, all the old, hey, this is not going to work routine. They would all get behind the skipper and the hex shows into the heads and said, okay, let's make this. Let's make this thing work. And nine times out of ten, it made it work. And then you all stat yourself in the back. Except for a few hard hits, they're going to be that way anyways. Any environment. But the people on the ships are from all over the United States. They have their own way of speaking. Sometimes not very well understood. A lot of them have the other type of verbal discussions that you might as well just turn your back and put your hand over your eyes, I mean, over your ears. And I'm not going to listen to this, but they're overall good, great, great people. And to have one meet after you've left the Navy, I mean, as well just shut that day off the calendar because you're not going anywhere. You're going to be sitting there talking about all the good times you had and how well that ship was, you know, put together and maintained. And a lot of times it was a little less than truthfulness exhibited. But anyway, by and large, to me, I thought, and I spent a lot of time at sea and I basically enjoyed it. And people say, there goes that crazy Irishman he likes to see. And by and large, it's the truth, because the guys take pride in what they're doing. They work hard at what they're doing. They are basically a friendly, friendly group. And some of them are bent to telling stories a little bit out of context. But it was a good time. I really, really enjoyed it. And that was one that was, let's see, that wasn't the first one. First one I was on was a tanker. It was, I think it was around 60, 60,000 tons. And what we did basically was a floating gas station. And what we would do is, and this was just before the cuban situation, and our job was to refuel anything in the US Navy inventory to keep it topped off. In other words, keep that ship full of the oils and ammunition, if you will, if they're shooting at you. But by and large, it was successful because we could generally get more boats off than anybody else. And the cruisers were fun, a lot of fun, especially the first cruise I went into. I forget what, what country it was, but it was exciting and enjoyed doing that.

[32:34] JAMES MCLAUGHLIN: So we've got just a few minutes left. Is there anything you wanted to like?

[32:39] LEE SMART: Oh, yeah.

[32:40] JAMES MCLAUGHLIN: Any short story or any last parting words regarding your military service, whether you.

[32:46] LEE SMART: No, I was always a easy going sometimes, but I really. Well, you meet will probably tell us, you know, that little guy, what a painter, the neck he is. But if you got the responsibility of. I had about 80, 84 people in my division in the engineering group. I made sure that every one of them knew exactly what they were doing, how well they were doing. And you see the guy step out of line. It took a little encouragement to have him see the light. And most times it worked without any violence or any of that sort of stuff. An early word once a while would work just as well, but it was, it was fun. That was my career on a high, high speed, high performance, high pressure. We had, I think it was 2000 ps, 2000 pounds per square inch boilers. We had four boilers. We had all sorts of neat things that allows you to do things that most other ships can't do. And especially when you're the boss, that's the best thing. You know, hiding isn't so hard, but it was a lovely, lovely time. Well, not so lovely because it would get, you know, the ship goes this way and that way.

[34:33] JAMES MCLAUGHLIN: Might get hot down there.

[34:34] LEE SMART: Yeah. And I wasn't very much of a. I kind of, when I saw those waves coming up over the bow, I would be looking for some other easier place to get welded. But really, I think the world of the United States needed. And my, oh, here's a product of heavy braid here. Only she's come up with more than I had, than I have. And I've had a couple of brothers that were Navy and they did very well.

[35:08] JAMES MCLAUGHLIN: You have a son that works for the Navy.

[35:11] LEE SMART: Oh, who's that?

[35:12] JAMES MCLAUGHLIN: Michael. He works for the Department of Defense.

[35:16] LEE SMART: Yeah, but that's. That's the submarines, that's the nuclear. And I do acknowledge his position as a nuclear engineer on an underwater thing that you can't see any ocean. You can't see anything. Just goes this way. But it's. They're tough guys, believe me. And he's a tough guy. He comes back, even to this day. He's. He's an engineer, basically, and he's a graduate of the. I'm trying to think of Michigan.

[35:54] JAMES MCLAUGHLIN: Michigan. University of Michigan.

[35:56] LEE SMART: Oh, yeah. But he's a graduate of University of Michigan School of Naval Architecture, and that is one fine school. And he is. He's done very, very well. He suffered a very serious illness underway one time, and it was close. And he ended up now as a, let's see, he's probably one of two of the top nuclear engineers, United States Navy.

[36:26] JAMES MCLAUGHLIN: He supports the military. Yeah, he.

[36:30] LEE SMART: No fooling around there. And he's been in thousands and thousands of.

[36:37] JAMES MCLAUGHLIN: So how do you. How do you feel about your legacy with me and Michael and your brothers joining the military? How do you feel about that?

[36:47] LEE SMART: Well, they weren't as good as I was.

[36:48] JAMES MCLAUGHLIN: Oh, yeah, that's a true statement. It was. We're different. That's all.

[36:55] LEE SMART: Five brothers. Six brothers. Five brothers.

[37:00] JAMES MCLAUGHLIN: There were six of you, so you're one of them. So five brothers.

[37:03] LEE SMART: Yeah. Five brothers, yeah. And then I had lesser creatures on the ship. Yeah. Those who. They weren't. They weren't Navy guys. They were other guys that are my brothers also. Yeah.

[37:15] JAMES MCLAUGHLIN: Oh, yeah. Your military brothers. But his, he had. You had two brothers, I think.

[37:19] LEE SMART: Right.

[37:20] JAMES MCLAUGHLIN: That joined the Navy. Well, Uncle Michael joined the Navy and then who else did Tom join the Navy? Or was he.

[37:25] LEE SMART: No, Tommy was in the army.

[37:26] JAMES MCLAUGHLIN: Army. Okay, so it was just my dad and your one brother, Michael, that joined the Navy.

[37:32] LEE SMART: Yeah, Michael was. Michael was a Navy guy.

[37:34] JAMES MCLAUGHLIN: And then me, your daughter, and then your son works for the Navy. He's not in uniform, but he works for the Navy, so.

[37:41] LEE SMART: Well, he's. Michael. Michael, as I said, is a nuclear engineer of the highest order. Believe me. He's got more of these little things they like to see on their uniforms. Oh, he doesn't wear uniform, but he doesn't. He doesn't. He's just one guy that ignore the Navy, that just refused to show somebody, you know, hey, look how good I am. He's not like that. He just takes a rag, which is a favorite hand towel, wipes off the dirty oils and greases and puts them in a place where they're supposed to be kept and then stands tall and say, okay, let's get those sovs. But he's a great guy and he's a great friend. He's a lot of fun. And he's coming to visit when?

[38:37] JAMES MCLAUGHLIN: Well, you have a brother Gene, that's coming to visit.

[38:39] LEE SMART: Oh, that's right. My brother Gene. He's a west point. He's a west point guy, but we don't recognize him. He's one of these landlocked guys that, you know, probably hoping to get up where we are or not. But Jane is a Smart Another Smart guy. And he's a graduate of West Point. He was the. Not the skipper, but the captain of the West Point hockey team when he was at West Point. He's. He's done all sorts of. Oh, yeah. He's done some platts, plates, plats. Plates. Plates. Yeah. Awards at west point for all sorts of neat performance, either on the hockey ring or rifling or something like that. Any other guys?

[39:37] JAMES MCLAUGHLIN: Yeah, they did a lot of stuff that your brothers.

[39:39] LEE SMART: Jesus. I'm still very proud of all my brothers. Even I don't admit it because they kind of put a little hint of, you know, damage on the occup. I mean, the position of my favorite brother, my younger brother. But they know they're wonderful, wonderful people, and they like to tell stories, all of whom I think are true. But you get that certain person that's willing to bend the trifle, you know, the truth of all. But by and large, it's a wonderful, wonderful time.

[40:25] JAMES MCLAUGHLIN: I think we're done.

[40:26] LEE SMART: Oh, great. Yeah.

[40:28] JAMES MCLAUGHLIN: And so what do you need from us? So now we're just going to do about 10 seconds of silence, and then I'll. And then I'll stop the recording. But before that, if you all have any final thoughts you want to say to each other, any, you know, anything.

[40:44] LEE SMART: Else, my experience is, except for, you know, maybe a bout of seasickness early on, I like. Well, I've grown up in the ocean, so. So what? I love it. So.

[40:58] JAMES MCLAUGHLIN: I love it. I just want to thank dad for your time and for your service, too.

[41:02] LEE SMART: Oh, yeah.

[41:04] JAMES MCLAUGHLIN: I'm excited that we got the chance to do this.

[41:06] LEE SMART: Yeah. It was go Navy.

[41:10] JAMES MCLAUGHLIN: That's right.

[41:10] LEE SMART: Beat army. But I wouldn't say that around thanksgiving, because that's what army played.

[41:19] JAMES MCLAUGHLIN: I love it.

[41:21] LEE SMART: Turkey running out.

[41:25] JAMES MCLAUGHLIN: Perfect ending.

[41:27] LEE SMART: Perfect ending.

[41:28] JAMES MCLAUGHLIN: We're just going to do 10 seconds of just silence now, and then I'll.

[41:31] LEE SMART: Stop the recording and we'll be done. Thank you.