Jennifer DePaola and Peter DePaola (IV)

Recorded November 3, 2019 Archived November 3, 2019 37:46 minutes
0:00 / 0:00
Id: mby019351

Description

Jennifer DePaola (49) and her son Peter DePaola IV (21) tell the story of Jennifer's journey on the Camino de Santiago with her father, Peter's grandfather. The story takes a turn when Jennifer's father passes away during their trip and Jennifer describes the experience of losing her father yet being encouraged by her mother to complete the Camino and she does, with her fathers ashes in her backpack.

Subject Log / Time Code

P asks J to describe her father/his grandfather.
J talks about deciding to walk the Camino de Santiago.
J talks about how she and her dad left for Spain on her mom's birthday and feeling guilty.
J describes taking time every day on the Camino to think about her life and what she was going to do next.
J talks about how she would interview her father every night on the Camino, an idea she got from her mother who did the same with her own father.
J describes finding her father dead in his room at the place they were staying that night of the Camino.
J describes her mother telling her that she needed to finish the Camino.
J describes bringing her fathers ashes on the rest of the Camino.
J describes her father's love of the musician John Denver. After they left for the day, she saw an eagle overhead, thought of the John Denver song "I am an Eagle," and knew everything would be ok.
J describes having to explain the ashes to customs and TSA upon returning to the US.
J gives advice to people after having had this experience.

Participants

  • Jennifer DePaola
  • Peter DePaola (IV)

Recording Locations

Dallas Public Library: North Oak Cliff Branch

Transcript

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00:03 Hi, my name is Jennifer. I am 49 years old. Today is Sunday, November 3rd 2019. We are in Dallas, Texas and with me this morning is my son Peter and he'll be interviewing are conducting the interview. I suppose Sunday, November 3rd 2019 in Dallas Texas near viewing my mom today. So we're going to talk to you about a grandpa and the story behind him. So first off, how would you describe and Grandpa?

00:40 Grandpa was an independent person. He grew up in the Valley in California back. Then it was still dirt roads and he went to Catholic school and he lived with his mom and dad and his dad died when he was 16 and so he had to take care of his mom and his sister and he ended up joining the Navy and he bought a house up in Hesperia for Grandma to live in while he was in the Navy because it was right around Vietnam and so he decided to join instead of get drafted right so he didn't want to get drafted. So he joined the military and bought a house to let Grandma and Aunt Nancy lives there and then when he came back from the service he started to work in construction up in the desert for one of the big Builders at the time.

01:40 And he didn't like working for other people. So he started his own business. So he was very independent and he cared a lot about the customers that he served. And so I just remember him always out on the job site always working he worked a lot but it was important cuz that's how we made money. Mom grandma didn't work at the time. So he was very independent and I just remember he cared deeply about his work at one of my best memories was going hiking with him when we were kids. We lived out in the small town in dirt roads. And so he and some other dads in the town would take us all hiking on Saturday once a month and I just remember every Saturday going to the Stater Brothers shopping center getting sandwiches and then spending the day out in the den.

02:40 Hiking and I bet I remember at the time not always loving that but as a memory, I have my memory. I remember it very fondly.

02:50 This is one of my own questions is what is one of the most frustrating questions frustrating things that I grandpa that you remember?

03:01 Grandpa was

03:05 He was a perfectionist and he used to have a temper when I was growing up. He you just would get very upset. If we used his tools or touched his tools or misplaced his tools and I remember him getting really really bad several times when his tools were not in the place. He remembered them to be

03:29 So what are some lessons you learned from Grandpa? I learned to do good work to take pride in my work and to work hard and and to do good work. That's probably the best memory I have are the best advice that I learned from Grandpa. He always put his heart and soul into the work. So my perfectionism probably comes from him. Sorry. So how did the Camino idea, and what the story behind that the Camino idea came up one Saturday night Danielle and I were at home you and Dad were somewhere. I have no idea where you guys were but Danielle and I were home together and we watched the way which was a movie about the Camino and at the end of the movie. I looked at your sister and I said, I'm doing that. I'm going to walk the Camino and she laughed and then when you guys came

04:29 I remember telling dad that I was going to walk the Camino and he was not fond of that idea.

04:40 So who who wins and how is the preparation for that? So when I told Dad that I wanted to do the Camino you were probably I don't know 12. Yeah, you were pretty young at the time and part of the reason dad didn't want me to do it is because you and your sister we're young. So I agree or we agreed. I think he worked he agreed reluctantly to let me do it when you guys graduated from high school. So once you and Danielle had graduated then he was going to

05:16 Let me go. Yeah, it was okay for me to go hike across Spain so

05:22 I waited several years to do that and when it was about at will after you graduated before Daniel graduated at dad a grandpa and I started training. So we started hiking pretty regularly to get into shape and type get ready for that hike.

05:38 And why were you doing at? Why did you want to go? I always loved hiking and that's one of the things I got from Grandpa is just being outdoors and it's the place that calms me and brings me back to just then and so the idea of walking this pilgrimage, especially after you and Danielle graduated from high school with sort of an opportunity for me to reflect on my life and decide.

06:10 What I was going to do with my life cuz I was done.

06:15 I was done raising kids and so

06:19 I wanted to sort of use that as a time to think about. What's the next phase of my life like and what what am I going to do with it?

06:32 I think grandpa just wanted to go because it was an adventure. He loved hiking in the idea of hiking for a month was a pretty cool idea and he's Never Been to Spain. And so part of that was what a great opportunity and so he he asked if he could go with me.

06:54 And so all these all this preparation came came to a head and tell me a little about the day you left for the trip. The day we left was Grandma's birthday and I'll never forget that because I felt a little guilty about the fact that I was leaving her that Grandpa and I were leaving for Spain for a month on her birthday and she had to take us to the airport. So she had to drive to LAX on her birthday, which she does not like to do right but

07:28 That was the day we had we had to leave in order to make the trip work. So I just remember being super nervous Grandpa and I had done 20 mile hikes. We've done everything to pack and I just remember being super nervous. I've never been anywhere for a month and to leave like that and just decided I was going to walk seemed overwhelming so I had tons of butterflies but I remember giving grandma a hug and a kiss and she handed me an envelope at the time and she said all of Dad's paperwork is in this envelope in case you need it and I remember looking at her and saying Mom, this is crazy. Why would I need this envelope, but she's like make sure you keep it and then we got on the plane and we flew to Spain.

08:16 Death grandmother the other sounds very much like her. She's the one said I think and worry about everything, but they're probably

08:29 So describe the first day on the trail when you're actually on the Camino your emotions how you're feeling how that went. It was Unreal.

08:43 It was

08:46 I had so many nerves because thinking about hiking at far seemed overwhelming but I knew we had trained and I remember the first mile everybody was chitter chattering cuz they're ended up being several of us who went it was me Grandpa Keith and then two women from Canada that I didn't know but that keeps new so that it kind of became a group Adventure, but I remember the first mile or so we were all chattery and you could tell everyone was nervous and after a mile a couple miles people started to spread out and get into their own pace and I just remember I was hiking near grandpa, but by myself and the scenery was so beautiful and peaceful and we were in trees and then by the ocean and I couldn't believe that this part of my life had happened and that this dream I'd had for so many years had come and

09:46 I really focused on my

09:51 Start of my what I came for it, which was what it what am I going to do? What is my life's purpose? And so every day when I was on the hike I would spend some time by myself just reflecting on Who Am I who do I want to be and I just remember the feelings on that first day being really profound the beauty of the trail seeing the Camino shells along the way and just really thinking God at the time for such a great opportunity and I couldn't believe that it had actually came.

10:27 So tell me a little bit about the layout of the trail, so.

10:33 Like we're like in the beginning is it mountainous in the end? It's flatter what days were you most worried about things like that? So we decided to take the northern route in the original route, which most people when they hear about the Camino. They think about from the border of France to Santiago. We decided to take a Less Traveled route. I didn't want all the people on the trail. I wanted to have less people and it's also a more mountainous Trail. So there was a lot less people in the beginning and it was fairly the first few days was along the ocean so it wasn't very hilly. But I knew that after ovieto it was going to get really mountainous and that's where it that's considered the hardest part of that trail. So the first four days I remember being really sore it was beautiful but I all I could think of was what am I going to do?

11:33 Second segment because it was a nine-day segment and super hilly and I was already sore my feet were killing me, but

11:46 Those first four days, I think really helped us get into shape. And one of the things people say about the Camino is that it happens in three segments. The first segment is very physical. The second segment is very spiritual and the third segment is very emotional and I didn't understand that at the beginning but I do very much so understand it now.

12:10 So what size typical day on the Camino life so you get up early early is about 6 in the morning. You have a cup of coffee and sometimes pastry they don't need a lot of breakfast in Spain. So it was usually a cup of espresso or coffee and a little pastry and then you'd hit the trail pretty early usually as the sun was coming up or just before the sun was coming up. We would hike until around 2 and 2 so anywhere from 10 to 15 miles a day by the time we got to wherever we were we were all pretty exhausted and it usually involved. Okay who's let's take a shower and then we would meet and have usually some snacks and beer cuz in Spain they don't eat dinner till like 9, so it was always painful cuz I am not at 9 dinner person. So so we would always

13:10 Take a shower. Go have a beer have some snacks and I usually interview grandpa. So one of the things he didn't know about the trip was that I was going to interview him on the trip. So I had prepared all these questions and each day. I would interview him usually over a beer. I decided to interview him because several years before that Grandma's dad had passed away. And before he passed away. She had spent a couple days interviewing him and I thought that was just a really neat idea to learn about who he was before. He was my dad. And so we would I have all these great videos of him telling stories about when he was a kid and growing up in the valley and his sister and

14:01 It was just a neat experience and a great way to kind of spend the afternoons.

14:07 So tell me about how the second segment was different from the first which he just talked about it and have the mindset is different. So the second segment after in that nine-day segment. First of all, the train was much harder and it rained almost every day and there was a I remember the third or fourth day. I lost Grandpa. It was a really long segment and it was really pouring rain and he missed a turn and then I went back to find him and then he passed me cuz I went the other direction it was this big mess and I remember sitting in the rain for like 2 hours trying to find him and I couldn't find him.

14:53 And then I got lost trying to find where we were staying and it took me an extra two hours past that to find where we are staying in by the time I got to the the house the farm house where we were staying Grandpa wasn't there and I was like panicked because I had hiked 20 miles and I was lost grandpa doesn't speak any Spanish and I couldn't find him and we ended up having to convince the owner of the farm to borrow his car to take us to go find grandpa. But it was this crazy crazy afternoon. I thought oh my gosh, how am I going to tell Grandma that I lost Grandpa somewhere on the trail, but during that segment of nine days. I remember talking to Grandpa. We did find Grandpa, by the way. He had walked to the next town and realized he went too far and went to three different bars in the town till he found someone who smoking

15:53 Who could give him directions back to where the Farmhouse was which was in another three miles and he was walking back to The Farmhouse. So he was doing just fine a little tired though. But the thing about that second segment was really the piece of it. I spend a lot of time thinking about my life and who I wanted to be and I'm really I remember talking to Grandpa at one point and saying, you know, I came out here to decide who I wanted to be and what I figured out is I really like me. I really like who I am and who I've become and

16:34 There's a piece in that and we had this really lovely conversation about being comfortable with who you are and not apologizing for it. And I I will never forget that afternoon.

16:48 All right. So now for the difficult day September 20th what happened that day?

17:01 So we were staying mostly in hostels along the Camino, but we had booked rooms cuz we didn't want to necessarily stay in group rooms, but Dad and Keith were rooming together and I remember getting up and I was getting ready was really cold that morning and the night before had been really cold and I remember getting ready and I was packing my backpack and I was putting on my socks and I heard Keith wandering the Halls yelling my name and he kept saying Jennifer Jennifer cuz he had no idea what room I was in and I just remember thinking I got to get my socks on. So anyway, he found me and I said Keith, what's up because something's wrong with your dad. You need to come.

17:48 I need to come to the room. So I put my socks on and I followed him up the stairs cuz they were on a different floor and right before we walked into his room. He grabbed me and he looked me in the eyes and he said your dad's cold.

18:05 And I

18:06 It took me a minute to figure out what that meant.

18:10 And once he realized what?

18:13 But I had once he realized I knew what he said he opened the door and I saw grandpa laying in the bed. He was curled up on his side.

18:24 He was very peaceful, but he definitely wasn't there.

18:33 And I just remember thinking oh my God, how am I going to tell Grandma?

18:38 How am I going to tell Grandma?

18:43 And so

18:46 I went downstairs to the hotel lobby cuz that's where the hotel owner fed fed us breakfast and coffee and the other folks that we were hiking with were there.

18:59 And I remember saying that grandpa had passed away.

19:04 And another group of pilgrims were there and they didn't speak English, but the one woman was a nurse and she she drugged me back upstairs because she wanted to do CPR and we got all the way up to the room and she looked at him and she just shook her head. No.

19:22 Which I knew he was he'd been debt. He'd passed away sometime at night.

19:28 And then I had to call Grandma.

19:31 And so I called grandma and I remember telling her that Grandpa didn't wake up. And she said Wilco shake it like him up. I'm like Mom he's not going to wake up.

19:45 And I don't remember anything after that.

19:50 Until

19:51 The police came because we were American citizens in a foreign country and he had passed away the police were involved.

20:01 And I don't speak very good Spanish and I just remember these two police officers sitting me down and like interrogating me. They were very nice. But I just remember I couldn't answer their questions cuz I don't speak Spanish in Google Translate for an hour. They kept asking me all these questions and I couldn't answer them and then the because it was a small-town the the judge in the mayor came like they're all these officials from the town came and then the coroner came

20:41 And the rest of the group decided to continue hiking and they weren't going to but I told him they needed to keep hiking because there was nothing for them to do while I dealt with all that so all the other hikers hiked, but they took one of dad's hiking Grandpa's hiking poles with them and I stayed behind and dealt with the police and had to call the US Embassy in

21:10 Then the coroner came and I remember the corner.

21:15 It was this little tiny hotel and they were trying to get the gurney up a winding staircase that was too small and watching them try to get Grandpa down the stairs in the sky Journey. That was there wasn't enough room and I just remember thinking Grandpa's probably in heaven laughing at this because somebody should have engineered stairs big enough for a group.

21:39 All his contractor comments.

21:45 And I know Grandma told you guys at some point.

21:48 I don't know who told you God called me and he was like Grandpa didn't make it and I was like, what do you mean he framed it in like a way that I was like, what do you mean like, he's here. He said something like oh, he's not there anymore. I said no, he isn't staying like his mom and he's like, no, he's not there as like what you talking like that so I figured out but yeah, so Grandma didn't call me. I didn't talk to him about that. I was so Grant. Okay, so I must have called Dad. I don't even remember calling Dad. Hello. What was what was going through your mind? All that was happening and Eatery. Did you just kind of like

22:33 Zone out I went into shock. I probably went into shock. But I absolutely remember going into planner mode. Like I you know me I get into this mode of I got to get stuff done. There's got to be a plan. Let's get going and I just went into this mode of get stuff done and I probably went stone cold from an emotion standpoint cuz I couldn't deal with what was happening. And so we ended up taking a taxi into the big into the city cuz where we were with such a small town. They took his body to a hospital in the city for an autopsy.

23:15 And I remember spending several hours sitting in this cold room waiting for them to do the autopsy, but fortunately the embassy the US Embassy got involved and really help things move along quickly because all of the paperwork in the police and like they weren't going to let me leave until they knew why he had died and it came out. I mean ultimately he had a heart attack while he was asleep. And so I'm not even sure he knew what happened but

23:47 I just went into this crazy. I just got to get stuff done mode. And then I remember talking to Grandma after we knew how he passed away and I was starting to make plans in my planner mode to go home. I just like we got a pack up and I'm you know, once once we figure out how to get his body home or whatever, you know started making plans and I remember Grandma saying to me you're not leaving my so what do you mean? I'm not leaving. She's like you're going to keep going you're going to finish the hike

24:20 And I was like, how am I ever going to do that? There's no way I can do that.

24:27 What did you end up doing with?

24:31 Well in the packet that Grandma had given me on her birthday was Grandpa's medical directives and his Neptune Society card. So he had always planned on being cremated. So as I was going through that fortuitous envelope that Grandma had given me

24:56 I called grandma back and we talked about what should we do? Should we have his body moved to the US and she said no just have him cremated. There's no reason to sort practical. Grandma's very practical.

25:09 So

25:12 We had we decided to have him cremated after the autopsy determined how he passed away. And then the other thing it was happening at the time was that my cousin was flying in.

25:26 To the end of the trail the end of the trip. She couldn't do the whole Camino with me, but she was going to come for the last week. And so all of this happened the day before Leslie was flying in and so as I'm dealing with all the hospital in the autopsy and all of this, I knew Leslie was coming and I think that

25:48 With my hope in the whole situation because all I could think of was okay less is going to be here tomorrow morning and that's going to make this better and it's a time. I still didn't think I was going to stay but Grandma kept saying no you need to keep hiking and when Leslie got there.

26:11 She agreed. She's like no, you've got to keep going.

26:15 And that's when we decided to take Grandpa with us because the

26:21 Oh gosh.

26:25 The funeral home was able to to cremate him within two days.

26:32 And so by the time Leslie got there. We were supposed to leave the next day for the rest of the Walk.

26:40 And so we decided to take him with us. So we agreed to carry him.

26:45 And carry his ashes for the rest of the Camino for that last hundred kilometers with us this whole debacle put you behind on your community, ironically. No it did not because at the end of the nine-day middle segment, we had a day of rest planned and he passed away the day before the day of rest. So the whole day that I dealt with all the stuff happening was supposed to be the last of the nine days of walking then we we had a day of rest and then that's when Leslie was coming and then we were going to do the last week so full of rest rest, but I often laugh at the fact that at least he timed it right cuz I didn't I didn't have to

27:37 Mister plan

27:41 But

27:45 Yeah, I'll never forget having to go to the crematorium to pick him up. Leslie went with me and we got there and this little jar and it was still warm. I'll never forget it was still warm cuz it was so weird to pick up a face that that's all that's left. And thank goodness. Leslie was with me cuz I'm pretty sure I lost it at that point cuz I don't think I cried until then until then.

28:18 So now that you've decided to continue on the journey, what was that first day like in the rest of the group is already continued. So it's just you and Leslie.

28:32 No, cuz everyone had addressed day so so by the time we started the whole group was back together, and it was really quiet.

28:43 Like we met in the hotel lobby the Santino usually get up early have your coffee and I remember carrying my backpack and carrying the the urn and we took a picture and then I put them in my backpack and we just started walking.

29:04 And it was really quiet everyone know when nobody spoke and Grandpa love John Denver. That was one of his favorite artists and about an hour into the hike.

29:20 I was walking and I looked up and there was an eagle flying right above me.

29:27 And I just started crying.

29:32 Because all I could think of was the chant.

29:37 I am an eagle.

29:44 I knew it's going to be okay.

29:55 Said it was supposed to happen that way.

30:02 That eagle flew over for about 20 minutes and then flew away.

30:10 And I have some really good pictures of that day of the Sun.

30:16 The reflection of the Sun and all of us are shadows in

30:21 Of Krampus earn sitting on one of the Camino posts, but it was a pretty

30:29 I'll never forget that eagle.

30:33 So what was the last day of the traffic like for you and for everyone else on Journey the last day was the hardest because the whole point is to get to Santiago and to get to this Cathedral and so emotionally I was like a wreck. I pretty much cried most of the day to myself at least.

31:01 And everyone else was pretty tired. I mean, we all just walked almost 250 miles and so people were sore and beat up and just exhausted and I remember coming into Santiago.

31:14 And because you're out in the country and then all the sudden you come into this town.

31:19 And I I got really quiet and very tense and walking through the streets. There's all these cafes and people talking and drinking and you know having their coffee and I was just really

31:33 Tensei, remember being very tense when I came in and then the town was way bigger than I thought and by the time I got to the cathedral I was exhausted and I rock I remember walking into the square of the cathedral and I just cried I'm pretty much sat on the Square and cried for about 2 hours.

31:56 And the cathedral was under construction, which was hilarious. So you really couldn't see the cathedral cuz I was scaffolding all over it. But I remember thinking of Grandpa would have thought this was funny too. Cuz of the whole thing was under construction, but I was really proud of myself for making it and I was also very profound because going back to the reason I even started this whole track was the movie the way and the movie the way is about a father who goes to goes to

32:30 Spain because his son decides to walk the Camino and his son dies on the Camino and so the father finishes the walk on behalf of his son and I remember sitting in the Square at the Cathedral and thinking how ironic the whole thing that started this was a movie about, you know, the father and his son and someone dying and finishing the walk

32:58 And then it happened.

33:00 And it was

33:04 I can't even describe all the emotions of that day. It was exhausting. So what was it like coming back with her TSA wasn't so happy about that. No don't travel with ashes.

33:23 Because I was carrying them. I had all these special letters from the embassy in from I don't even know who cuz they were all in other languages but every airport I went through I had to go through security and when you're going through security with a metal Jar full of Ashes TSA does not like that and I had to explain the story so many times that day cuz I think I had three airport transfers and everytime security pulled me out of the line and pulled me into you know side rooms and I had to explain that these were my father's ashes and I was exhausted physically emotionally spiritually everything about me was exhausted and I got sick of explaining the story to people in airports.

34:14 And then I remember when I got to LA and got through customs.

34:19 Everybody was their grandma was their Aunt Lori was their Uncle John was there and I just remember I probably the most visceral die in scream and cry in LAX and grandma said Jen everyone can hear you and I'm like, I don't care. It's been the longest month of my life and I just remember breaking down in LAX Airport following because I was exhausted and emotional and

34:53 I had to hand the urn back over to Grandma and

35:00 I would say it was a life-changing experience.

35:05 So what is something that you learned about yourself in from this experience?

35:13 I learned that I'm away stronger person than I ever thought. I was that I'm capable of things emotionally and physically bigger than I ever thought I could do.

35:27 But I think ultimately it comes back to the whole point of the trip, which is I like who I am. I turned out to be a pretty okay person and only took me 50 years to figure that out.

35:40 So what has been the hardest thing about losing Grandpa to you. I miss talking to him and Grandpa was one of my best friends and we were pretty close and I miss just the conversations about hiking and nature and politics as much as I hated talking to him about politics. That's probably the thing. I miss the most now is not being able to talk about what's going on politically because boy would he have been having? Yeah. It's a good thing. You didn't live through this.

36:21 So last question, what advice would you give others about this and because of this experience?

36:31 Take time to do things with the people you love even if it's inconvenient, everyone thought I was crazy for taking a month off quitting my job and going to hike across a different country.

36:47 But it's probably one of the best decisions I made other than having my children and I encourage people to go take a walk like disconnecting yourself and being out and really reflecting on who you are. As a person is a life-changing experience barring the fact that this was a life-changing experience. The whole point of it was very life-changing and really helped me feel much more comfortable about who I am as a person.

37:21 Awesome, Thanks for doing the center dear Mom. Thank you for coming along to interview. No problem.