Jenny Lee Corvo and Ralph Bonna

00:03 20/20 located in Jacksonville where I actually Orange Park, Florida. And my name, my partner's name is Jenny and we just met.

00:17 All right, and then you can go ahead.

00:21 My name is Jenny Lee.

00:23 And I am 36 years old. Today's date is December 9th 2020. I'm in Jacksonville, Florida. Your name is Ralph and you're my one small just like you.

00:37 And I will go ahead and throw in the first question and Ralph. Why don't we have you read that off to Jenny?

00:49 Jenny. Yeah, why did you want to do this interview today?

01:00 Super divided right now and I'm interested in that Division. And I'm interested in how everyone came to be where they're at. And on a personal level it affects me because I am the only Progressive person in my entire family. I have a really big family, and everyone is super super far-right. And I'm super super far left, and that obviously has to be created a lot of tension in 2020. And so I'm interested in hearing more perspectives from people who aren't related to me.

01:43 Now we can do vice versa and Cheney wants you ask the same question division in this country. It is really bothersome. I'm quite a bit older than you and it can weave. I've been through many elections. I've known many people who did not agree with me politically and so forth, but for some reason, this is different. I got when I now when I find out someone is super far, right? Look at them differently. And I've never had that feeling before. I, I would class myself as classify myself as left-of-center, but not super far left.

02:29 Okay.

02:32 And so, did the next thing I wanted to do is have you guys read each other's bios to each other. So Jenny I'm going to have read the bio of Ralph 2 Ralph. And then with that, you will if there's anything in there that you find interesting to ask him about it.

02:56 So Ralph your bio. I am a white male. 74 years old. I have been married for 53 years with two children and four grandchildren. I retired from the Navy in 1989, after 21 years of service. I consider myself an optimistic person, but I'm deeply troubled by how our country is divided and how it will affect the lives of my children and grandchildren, long, after I'm gone. And what are you most afraid of?

03:26 I'm most afraid of the fact that you can't get anything done. When you have people divided as we are today. I mean, it's kind of Portage point counter point counter point counter point counter point is just pick up the paper every day and then we'll watch the news and and it's really Troublesome because other countries who are not democracy, like the democracies like us and have dictators. You can get really focused in China and in particular is really focused on becoming the world leader, and willpower, and him. Here. We are just, we can't even decide this election. Yeah. It's very, very bothersome.

04:18 Yeah, I get that.

04:21 And here now we could do Ralph you read this off to Jenny and yeah, we can go from there.

04:32 I grew up in the front of fundamentalist Christian bubble. When I got to enter college and started meeting people from all over the world. I realized, I couldn't know. Did my religious views? And worldviews were correct that open-mindedness was not accepted in the church and it caused me to rethink and reshape all my political beliefs. Now lgbtq issues, Health Care issues, and women's rights by the foundation for my political stance.

05:06 I found that the Christian bubble comment interesting. While I I don't think I'm, I am a Christian consider myself a Christian. I grew up Catholic and there was a bubble there. Also. I can remember when I was a child. I have been people in the church. Tell me that I was lucky because only Catholics went to heaven and then As I Grew Older and became a little bit more knowledgeable of things. I quickly realized it.

05:48 Except that couldn't be. And so and now, I'm really none. I do not go to church now because of many things that have happened in the Catholic Church, which I'm sure you're aware of.

06:06 Yeah. Yeah, same things happened in the

06:14 And I ended up leaving the church as well was because, you know, the source of terrible things that were happening. The Catholic Church were also happening in the Southern Baptist Church that I grew up in. So we have my wife and I have a friend who

06:34 We knew very well. We thought we knew him best as could we did, I guess who we were within the military to TV stations over four years, and they

06:49 You know, we thought we knew him really well, but long story short, they have a daughter who is same age as our daughter, and a son, the same age as us that they have abandoned their daughter because she told him that she was a lesbian and they have disowned her completely. And in my mind, I cannot imagine ever doing that to one of my children for any reason and so, you know, and they are very much into the church and I'm pretty confident that that's where this leaf and the reaction to it is come from. So

07:31 Yeah, yeah, for sure. Yeah, I have similar stories and in my family, unfortunately, not with me personally, but with a, I'm sort of distant relatives that reached out to me. And, you know, when she became an adult and said that the family had sort of abandoned her because of her.

07:56 Right. Yeah, I don't I don't have kids but I have nieces and nephews and I can imagine what it might be like to have children and I can't find them. I just can't buy them, you know. Disowning someone you brought into the world is yeah, but it's very prominent.

08:17 When I read your bio, I was afraid that was probably not going to have anything we disagree, but I'm sure we do, I'll find something. You will find something we disagree on. But

08:38 Yeah, they got to take one of the questions that that I read was, you know, do you have a problem with someone who who has your same beliefs that they was referring to political beliefs, but any and that you feel uncomfortable with an, I do feel uncomfortable with some of the people who are very far left because

09:04 That becomes.

09:07 To me when you're when you're at those extreme shoot, you're not willing to compromise and compromise, to me is extremely important. It's the only way we'll ever get anything done because no one's always right. And no one's always wrong. No one has all the answers to everything. So,

09:29 That's how I view people who are at the extreme stupid uncompromising and correct me if I'm wrong, baby.

09:38 I mean, I think uncompromising is probably a good word in for me. Personally. I don't think that it's that I think that I necessarily right? And everyone else is wrong because that's like a really dogmatic sort of viewpoint that I I don't take but for me the sort of extreme view that I have on especially human rights comes from the fact that there is, we have a lot of work to do, in my opinion. In this country. We have a lot of work to do in order for everyone to be as equal as we like to shout from the rooftops that America is, you know, USA, this great land of opportunity, but it's not, it's really not for so many people. And I think that in order to make those changes for me, it has to come from an extreme place because we're in an x on the Other Extreme right now, so,

10:38 That's yeah, I think I think I am uncompromising when it comes to Human Rights and I can understand that.

10:47 You know, I got in got into a little bit of trouble with friends and it's my bio said I've been, I was in the military for 21 years and with these black players kneeling for the national anthem and stuff. It didn't bother me at all. Cuz I had to me, I understood what they were kneeling for some of my friends.

11:11 Wrap them up into the flag issue and, you know, dishonoring the military and you know.

11:20 Like my comment was, what what did you want him to do to get attention, write a letter to the editor or something. Get out like that would really, that would really shake up. Everybody wouldn't have it. So, you know, I understand the human rights issue. That's that's certainly one. That's its.

11:42 When I look at that, you know.

11:46 You do have to compromise at some point to get make some progress. I think there has to be a willingness, but it's hard to argue with it, you know, any human rights issues?

12:08 You know, I ain't worth fighting for, I mean, to correct them and stuff. So but it's the same with with African-Americans and stop fighting Chick-fil-A here in this house. And then I got a northerner. I always had this perception that Southerners were all racist, but I got and I've certainly learned that that's not. Not true. But you know, I got a conversation with her real estate agent who sold our house recently in her opinion was well, you know, if they're in the ghetto is all I got to do is go to get education and, and get out and stuff. And I said,

12:54 Is thistle whole life. It is it is still not a Level Playing Field for those folks and you know, if they were running a mile race, the white people would have a would be at the half-mile point when the gun went off and they'd be at the starting line. Then, you know, they have not had the opportunities that white people.

13:15 Yeah, that's fascinating. Right but she couldn't understand why we got to find something we disagree on here. That's okay. I'm sorry. I think I see that I got kicked out for a little bit.

13:42 We'll miss you at all.

13:46 That's totally fine. One thing. I did want to ask you about both from both of you guys, and I'm at, and this isn't written down. I just wanted to ask about you guys, both talked about how you grew up in a religious household or had some influence in religion, when you were growing up. Do you still believe that those belief systems have impacted either of you going into today? And, and right now, would you even say and I guess Jenny I could ask you that first since you're the person that that brought it up and in your body.

14:25 I mean, yeah, my religious upbringing had a huge and still has a huge impact on me to this day. Simply because it was so, I mean, when I say fundamentalist, I mean and you know extreme aggressively puritanical no religion and very unclear iced. Like I'm not really a Christian. I wouldn't really consider myself one, but just understanding that the sort of whole idea of Christ how I grew up was very opposed to that. There was no compassion. There was no love. It was just a greshan. It was just a hater. It was just all of these sort of things that you weren't supposed to do. And if you did them, will you were going to burn in hell for eternity. And why would God even create someone just to punish them for eternity? It just didn't make sense.

15:25 Really harsh. And so it definitely impacts be today because, you know, I kind of I guess because I know that exists my family is still that way. So I am still in a place of knowing that that sort of thought is in the world and that Evangelical Christians Viewpoint affects a lot of the religious, right? And a lot of politics. So I'm kind of like always battling up against it for Euro.

15:56 Well.

15:59 I guess I'll always consider myself a Catholic, but I just the things that I grew up with, just looking back on them just made no sense at all. And, and I agree with Jenny, you know, it's supposed to religion should be so compassionate, loving caring people, and helping people and so forth. And

16:32 Well, I did see that. I mean, I did see many people are, you know, I don't know how familiar you are Jenny with Catholic religion, but to me that the nuns of the other real Catholics, do, you know, not the priests the nuns, get nothing at the pictures. The priests get. Nice homes. They get cars. They get, you know, they get when they retire, they get a brand new car from the church, should not the nuns just work. They, they don't have, they live in, very modest places communal type living. Say they go out in the field. I help people to me. They are the real Catholics in the church. I'm not there certainly nice and good priest. But but the nuns were the ones who were really doing the work and I did and they get nothing hardly anything from the church back in terms of

17:32 Items and in consideration for the things but yet I still do consider myself Catholic.

17:44 It's just that.

17:49 Hi, I just don't see them being I think they're too concerned about raising money and in building beautiful churches. In pain. So close. It's not what I think religions about and I do see the front of fundamentalists. Would I little I know about them that they can do the literal Bible reading the Bible, which can be done many different ways. You can. You can you can take those phrases and chapped, you know, sections of the Bible and apply them to anything whatever you want them to say. You can make them support your your position. I don't believe.

18:34 And I'm not a Bible person, so

18:40 I didn't want to throw in the next question, if that's okay with you, guys, and here we'll have Ralphie. No, actually will have Jenny. You read that off to Ralph.

18:53 OK, Google

18:59 They teach you.

19:01 Well, I think

19:04 Flight from Oster. Many certainly, their parents, you know, most influential I'd shave. My vagina Grandparents were also because when I was younger than my parents work, I spent a lot of time with my grandmother and grandfather and in and they were, you know, they had moved to this country from Portugal, you know, they were still learning the language. They, they didn't have education. You, no formal, education per se and, and they worked hard jobs in skin.

19:44 And I just saw that growing up which influences my feelings about immigration to a large degree because you know, I feel like many of those people come.

19:57 To the United States. I just like my grandparents. They just trying to find a better life for their, their families, and their children. Most took, most of them are hard workers. They will do anything. You don't see many white people out in the fields, picking let it in and N Stuff in there. Not taking those jobs away from anywhere cuz most Americans would not do those that work. It's too high. So I think that environment growing up with them too many respects. I know it influences how I feel about immigrants today in the Mexicans and then from whatever country they they come from, I think we're better off for having.

20:46 Different people, come to our country and you know, we can learn from them. They can learn from us and I just think it's a plus. I don't share this with negative. City is never a negative and a negative.

21:07 And Ralph, aren't you had sent it? Okay to spend the most influential person in your life. And what did they teach you?

21:21 That's a tough one for me, because

21:26 I didn't have a lot of positive influences. I'll be honest. So a lot of the influence has been negative. It's, there's just a lot of negative influence for me, but I will say like, this for the one person that stands out as influential would be, my grandmother. Like you, I spent a lot of time with her because my parents works a lot, and my dad actually worked night shift. So he was always asleep during the day and my mom worked like crazy hours during the day. So, she actually lived with us and took care of me. And, you know, cook my meals and took me to school and really hurt and raised me. And, you know, there were definitely some really negative things about her. She grew up it, like kind of a small town outside of Tallahassee didn't have electricity. So she was 16 years old, grew up on us.

22:26 You know, they literally bought and made everything. They never went out. I'm sorry. They made everything that bought it, they stole things to make money, but not a lot. I think they had like a cane sugar farm. But yeah, they just grew up in such poverty with tons of brothers and sisters on the farm. And that's what is isolation in the South and really racist. And, you know, continue to be a pretty racist woman throughout my life, but on the flip side, she was also dislike incredible force to be reckoned with as she was so powerful. And, you know, she also had like an incredible compassion within her and incredible kindness and generosity would give

23:21 Anything to the people that she loved. So she influenced me in a lot of ways taught me how I can be, and also taught me a lot of ways that I shouldn't be. So I guess she would be my biggest until she died a few years ago. And I'm yeah, it says it's a tough one. It's tough because it supposed to negative and positive influence. I know no one's perfect. But the bad was

23:55 Could be pretty bad. I think we all learned from negative people. Sometimes that means you just learn what not to do or what not, how not to think. So.

24:08 Can I have a another? I think they'd question considering seems like, you guys share any of the same beliefs? So, she right. And who isn't the first one? The last one first. It was over to Jenny.

24:29 Do you ever feel misunderstood by people with different beliefs than you that is by people from the other side of the aisle house? Yeah, I feel misunderstood all the time. Pretty much. Every political conversation. I just had this year, certainly has made me feel really misunderstood. There's this sort of belief that's present from the other side. I guess release the other side that I interact with that. Liberals are just lazy and want everything handed to them on a silver platter and they're immoral and their heatonist. And they just want to go out and be able to, you know, do all kinds of terribly immoral things without consequence and then have the government feed them and house them and paper.

25:29 Healthcare. It is really bizarre, you point. And that's not who I am at all, and it, but it really doesn't matter.

25:42 How much I try to convince them that I'm not that person. They still sort of see me that way even though I'm actually like, really vanilla Square person. I just don't like it. You know, it's weird for them to think that I just want to go out. I just think people should have basic human rights and health care and a living wage, but that's extreme to them. So, yeah, totally misunderstood.

26:17 Well, I guess I can answer that question also like Skype. Let's make

26:24 Get a what? What are the things that drives me nuts when I talk to people on the other side of the aisle is gun control now. No, I am not a gun person.

26:41 But can I have family members who are Hunters? I went to school in Maine. They hunt deer up there all the time and so forth. But when you say something, you know, you always get categorized as you're going to, if you want to take away my second amendment rights. I've never said that, I don't want to take away people's Second Amendment right now. Should we have some really strict rules about who has guns. You know, what type of guns. Do, you know, checks on getting a gun?

27:18 To me that makes sense, but I'm not saying.

27:22 Take away. Everybody's gun. Although we've got 300 million, + guns in this country. One more than one for every person and I don't understand why we need guns that can we designed for military purposes to kill people. I don't understand. I haven't had one person. Give me a good explanation for why we need that type of gun to be in everybody. Anyone's hands, and wants to get a gun. It just doesn't make sense to me. And that's a very frustrating talk to me because no one has given me a good answer other than it's my second Amendment, right? I can have guns, if you can, you put it in the context of the time that it was created with, you know, when you didn't have police forces in and have the state troopers to call or local police or

28:22 You know, there was a reason why it is what in place at that point in time, but now we get our Twisted that right into an excuse for having all of these guns. Particularly the ones that you know,

28:40 Can shoot multiple rounds in very short. I don't understand why you have to have that type of gun in your possession. I don't either and in conversations I have

28:55 The other side, you know, it's always this. Well, I'll let you know that the government is evil. We should be afraid of the government. The government shouldn't have any business in our lives. And we need our guns to protect ourselves from the government. Right now. I mean, other day, for guns threatening, I think there's Michigan Secretary of State in Michigan, because they're the voting, and, and why Michigan voted for Biden. And instead, they, you know, they were out outside her house, you know, shouting obscenities and threatening, you know what, guns, and

29:40 There's no call for that, none, at all. So that that's one thing that always gets me going.

29:49 It's my right to have a gun. The Second Amendment says that you're going to. You want to take it away from me.

29:55 I've never said that and really I just wanted to leave with that question to bring up this topic and Dom will do Vice verses. So can you read this off to Ralph? And I think this one is kind of weeds and really well.

30:18 Turn my fan on real quick.

30:29 Okay, sorry about that. It was like freezing this morning and that was hot. So you want me to read it?

30:40 Do you ever feel troubled by people with the same beliefs as you? So people from your own side of the aisle and how they communicate those beliefs daughters?

30:50 Well, I think I owed it to this before when I talkin about the extrange, You Know Who sampled climate change, you have people is as I see it on, on the far, left you who are really pressing for measures to try to get her arms around climate change, and some of them are pretty extreme, you know, and I think by pushing that to the extreme, we're only going to get the other extreme to counter-balance, static that position and it's going to be like

31:35 You know, a long rope with a knot, in the middle, and you can people on the other ends each end. And the only way to get that knot out of it just to come closer together. But you going to have people, if we take extreme positions, pulling their runs out in that knot is only going to get Titus. I think the extreme position sometimes have to be willing to move closer together so that we can loosen that not at least end and work at it. So I feel sometimes to extreme positions.

32:10 Cuz result in extreme positions that counteract in and we get nowhere. So, you know, we're in an extremely dire situation. Environmentally. I'm a birder I love birds so much. I bird watch all the time. Just a huge bird nerd. And the you know, there were like 100 different regulations at the Trump Administration.

32:45 You know, that our favor businesses and are so harmful to the environment. And we're just we're killing birds there, so many bird species, that you don't have anymore. And as such a huge drop in bird population because these regulations are cut and because we're not caring about our environment and and idle, you know, the fire is in the hurricanes and I mean it's sort of a life-threatening situation. That's that's rapidly, increasing. And it's one of those things that I feel like we have to have some Extreme Measures because we're not, it's not going to be survivable. If we don't.

33:29 Well, I agree with that in the

33:33 But getting you know, which we've got to do something probably. So and so it becomes a question of do. We try to find some Middle Ground enough? So that we can start making progress. And then I understand what you're saying because there are some pretty dire predictions about. We don't rain in CO2 emissions and and methane and the number of other chemicals and stuff. The impact is going to be significant the night. I think about my grandchildren, you know, I'm good. I'm going to be long gone, you know, when when those things happen, but can't even my children will probably catch the tail end of some of these things. But for my grandchildren and my great-grandchildren that, I

34:26 May never see and say, can I have to live with it? And I find it. We got to find some common ground as a starting point to, to do that night, and I'm afraid that sometimes stream voices.

34:43 Just become the the talking points for the other side to say. Hey, they just want to close everything down. They want birds to fly all over the place. While we, while we can do. We have to close up businesses and so forth. So dream to be the land of birds birds.

35:12 Lovely, I mean, you know, water in particular with rising sea levels. Other than that, I think we have the most Seacoast of any state and rising sea levels, are a lot of houses. Very nice houses, very close to the ocean sand, and so forth. So I can tell those shows to stop falling into the shade. We probably won't see anybody say, hey, and we may be too late cuz I'm like most things we can usually buy us out of it at some point, if we really want.

35:53 With the environment. We may not be able to buy ourselves which, you know, out of some of the predictions that the ozone layer and and so forth. So yeah, but then I'll be back to the to the question about the same beliefs on that, you know, on the same side. That's what I worry about when we get people are extreme stalking because then then we just pulling that rope in opposite directions. To that not just gets tighter. So

36:28 Let me ask you about that. Jenny. Do you ever get concerned? I know you just said that this is something that you care about a lot when it comes to climate. We're just issues in general. Do you think that there is do you ever have issue with how people approach? Certain issues that share the same beliefs as you is it ever difficult?

36:52 Certainly, not as much as Ralph any night. You know, like I said, I'm pretty extreme. I feel like there's a call for extremism and a lot of issues right now. I would say the one problem that I have is shaming and you know, we'll call it cancel culture even though I really just hate that phrase, but I guess it's the right phrase to do. I just don't think it's really ever appropriate to like, Shane people and and put them on a stage and say, terrible, this person is, and throw eggs at them and, you know, all of that. I definitely think when somebody does something wrong and they're in a position of power that it certainly should be made public, and we should be aware of who this person is and and what, you know what they've done. But when it comes to like small conversations, you know, and I've seen I have a lot of

37:52 Liberal friends such as myself and you know, on Facebook, a conservative things can get call then, you know, I just don't that's certainly not ever going to make progress at all. And it's certainly not every of my viewpoints coming from a place of compassion, you know, maybe points come from a place of Love or in the earth and love for other people. And I don't want to hurt anybody's feelings. Even if they're like a terrible, you know racist. I don't know. Should we call out Reese's people? Ya should we like should they change? Yes, but is just shaming them to Jack going to change them. Know, is a conversation like this. Maybe with change them. I don't know. Can you reason with them? Maybe? But certainly just publicly shaming them is only going to

38:52 Like, inside the fire in them, you know.

38:56 The heart condition to take, but that's sort of the one problem may be that I have.

39:02 Well, I guess is except I just feel that. It's some point you have to find a common ground. No one.

39:12 You'll never have everything that you want now. And so you just have to find some common ground is a starting point and then hopefully build build from there, but

39:30 You got to have passion to I mean you need people with with extreme passion to to keep the conversation going, but you can't in my opinion can't let them dominate it because then

39:44 Then you create equal, an equal force in the other direction. And in then, progress, progress stops. How you how you convert to raid? Spray sisters? I don't know how you you would do. You would do that. That's something that

40:04 Is is a learning experience and maybe if it's learned, I guess you can be unlearned.

40:11 I think so, George Wallace changed. I mean, he was truly a racist, but he changed it at the end of this life.

40:21 To some degree, so,

40:26 Having to get people the chance, but certainly

40:32 You know, shaming is itching is a tough one for me and I get why people do it and I don't hold space for real, but it's been a major issue.

40:47 With me with President Trump. I mean, he started, he started from the very first.

40:55 Debates with his other Republicans, you know, name calling and you know, head from that point on I could just I mean that's great school. Stuff that you try to stop right away when you know, when they're in grade school, we can do that bullying and he's just in my mind is just a zero-sum thing, you know, you know, if I win, you have to lose. If you win, I F I've lost and then that doesn't work.

41:28 For him.

41:33 Joe.

41:35 That has been my big issue with him.

41:39 Ready, but, so we're at at we're actually already at 41 minutes and it was just one closing question. I wanted to ask about you guys and Ralph will have you read that after Jenny first?

41:58 How can we come together after a divisive election this year?

42:04 Wow, I'm glad you got that first.

42:10 Take it away.

42:14 That one, you know, I feel like I would be shouting it from the rooftops, but I don't know how we can come together after what happened. I mean, I think you do conversations like this, but perhaps with people who have more disagreement are a great place to start because you know, we have to learn how to talk to each other again and we have to learn how to remember that we're human, despite how inhuman we have presented ourselves to be, especially over social media. I think that's probably a huge piece of this is that we're all just little keyboard Warriors and we don't have a face when we're behind the keyboard. And it's, it's not a genuine conversation often and I think we need to have genuine conversation. Even with the pandemic if it's virtual, you know, I think we just have to talk to each other.

43:14 I think that's that's the foundational step, but I don't know. There's a lot of hate and there's a lot of personal attacks.

43:24 In conversations and it's tough. It's so tough right now.

43:31 Do I get to answer that?

43:38 Several months ago, maybe, a year ago. I wrote an email to Mike to my grandchildren and Indus talked about the importance of being open-minded and I gave him some tips. I told him how I tried to do it. You know, I watch, I'm a News Junkie. So I for newspapers and and I watch news on TV. I try to watch Fox News every once in awhile. It's not easy, but it's not ideal, but I forced myself. I don't think there's an easy answer is obviously, this is not an easy answer to this, and

44:23 I am your new probably seen this on Facebook every once in a while. Somebody would say we need to teach our children curse. If again, you know, it's a lot of kids don't write in cursive anymore. Everything that is printed and sent my grandson can't write in cursive. He he was not taught that in school. I think what they need to do in school at a very, very young age. Start classes in critical thinking I mean, you'd have to dumb it down for the young kids, but they see ads for toys and stuff that did a really good make them look fantastic and stuff. And where to get them. They're just a little piece of junk, but I think it's important that we start teaching in school.

45:12 Weather be a separate class or weaved into other classes, critical thinking how to learn to evaluate something that shows up on Facebook. I mean, I've written more friends saying, no, this is not true, just go to, you know, stupid stuff snopes.com or, or factcheck.org or something, you know, don't just pass it along, you know, look at it. See who said it. You know, what's the reference? Can you find something? I wanted to prove or disprove your stuff, but people need to learn critical thinking skills, and then most people don't

45:58 The other thing is that they don't really like most people don't acknowledge that, we all have biases and we're all biased. And I think it's critical that we know that and understand what that means to our decision-making that week. We have everything comes through. I had just built it, true that those buys spices in, and if you don't realize that you never stop and say, well, wait a minute.

46:30 You know, I want to believe this.

46:33 But is it really true? You know, you know, maybe I need to check this out. Sometimes. It's not true. It's half. True. There's some element of truth to it, but it's been Twisted in his church presented differently.

46:52 Yeah. I think that mean dessert.

46:55 And I've had the same thoughts myself about that. We need to teach critical thinking in that way and we need to teach basic psychology as well. Like, that needs to be all about like all kinds of crazy science and math, which is great. But we learned nothing about the human mind in school Lionel. We don't learn about ourselves, but then my that I have this thought that like imagine if we did teach that what that would do to religion and what that would do to consumerism. I mean, when you become a critical thinker, those two things kind of thinking about your purchases to start critical thinking about you and I need, I mean it.

47:46 The religion would adapt and the consumer that, you know, the companies selling products with a adapt, if people, I think they would, they have, they would have to

47:59 They would have to do. That's truly wouldn't really have, you know, if they couldn't answer those critical questions.

48:07 Then people would leave people leave the church out of the church. And so they would either have to adapt or lose their two, people who attended churches. So I don't big, big fan of teaching critical thinking.

48:30 And with that, I'm going to stop there quitting, we did for.