Jessica Simmons and Liam Carey

00:02 Hi, my name is Liam Carey. I'm 45 years old. Today's date is Wednesday, June 9th, 2021. I'm recording from Brooklyn, New York.

00:13 With Jessica Simmons, who is my wife.

00:16 Hi, my name is Jessica Simmons. I'm also 45 years old. It is Wednesday, June 9th, 2021 and I'm recording from our home in Brooklyn with Liam Carey.

00:31 So,

00:34 I want to start off by some questions about the first time.

00:39 You voted for when inside of voting booth look like,

00:43 You remember it?

00:45 Yeah, I used to go voting with my parents at my elementary school and not the old kind of voting booth where you hold up the curtain over, but very Christian metal. And so when I turned 18, my parents sent me to the City Hall where I grew up in Pittsfield. Massachusetts and said, I had to go register to vote. And so I drove myself there and I walked in and I told him I wanted to register to vote and they were like, what's your party affiliation? And there were multiple choices, and I knew my parents were Democrats, and I knew that, I thought I was more liberal than my parents. So, I said, I'm a Libertarian. And they said, do you know if that means? I said, no. I said, I think you're probably a Democrat.

01:45 That is how I registered to me. Don't cry when I was 18.

01:50 And I'm not a libertarian.

01:56 What was the first was the first presidential election?

02:02 Well, I would have been 18 and

02:06 94.

02:09 So, in the fall of 94, what election was that?

02:13 Oh, I was thinking like I was thinking 96 like presidential absentee cuz I was in college in Rhode Island. So that must have been for Clinton in 96, right?

02:33 Because at that time, I don't, I remember the voting absentee and then I remember

02:40 Because it was 1996 and I was in a dorm. It was very difficult to get information. Like you wouldn't know who won the election. If you didn't have a TV and people didn't have TVs in the dorm. So I remember like having to hear about it like in the hallway because someone got the information and told everyone else just so different than it is now.

03:04 Did you vote in the election? Actually, Stockland speaker housing. California, Berkeley, California?

03:15 The first time I voted and it was the first presidential election.

03:24 So you work in principle before you work already in the community?

03:33 What's first started you?

03:35 Thinking like how I can make an impact in my community. I want to work in.

03:40 Education.

03:44 I started working and education because I was in graduate school for women studies. And it's an interesting thing to be in grad, grad school for because it's very academic, but women studies is based in activism. And when I was in women's studies, I worked at a high school, a very diverse High School in San Diego, where I was in grad school and Iranian women's studies club. And at the end of my two years of grad school. I realized I didn't really, like, writing academic papers. I did really like working with young people and so,

04:23 I found out from there. I found an opportunity to teach with Teach for America, which is a program that my friend had found out about her campus at UCSD. And then she told me about it and I applied and that's all I get is teaching it. Once. I started teaching and saw that I could have that impacts a positive impact on students and their lives every day. I wanted to do that more than I wanted to everything. I wanted to teach women Studies English at the University. But once I started teaching 7th grade English,

04:55 There's there was change involved in that.

04:59 Can you remember a time when you thought?

05:02 I'm a terrible teacher or time that you thought. I'm an amazing teacher actually populated schools in California about 3,500 kids and three grades. And so they had to go to have to go every day 365 days of the year. So what they did was they track students and they put the students that they thought we're like the lowest academically performing students in a class and they gave him a sub. And they said, your teacher will be here in 6 weeks and they waited for me to get there. And so obviously, when I arrive, does a brand new teacher and the kids are going to school for six weeks and I didn't totally know what I was doing it. When I'm in a smoked ham sandwiches. They still give me a run for my money. So that those 6 weeks of that quarter were really hard as I was still trying to figure out how to Be an Effective Teacher and also the

06:02 Feeling of every day of knowing that I wasn't having an impact. I wanted to make. I think that was hard to think. My first success as a teacher was at the end of that year. I was teaching eighth-grade at the time. It was called Ela and advanced DSL was the name for the class and I got my students to be the second, highest performing students in our school, on a district-wide writing assessment and the person who had the highest performing students honors. And so, everybody was questioning how my students who had been trapped as the lowest for able to score of the second-highest in the school. But ultimately, what my students and I were able to show the school Community is that the tracking of the students, didn't matter, if you were a teacher and hold your head.

06:57 When did you think you want to be a principal?

07:02 I think any.

07:04 Ennis goes to running for office, two in each of the stages in my life. When I was growing up. I never thought I would be a principal to run for office or anything cuz those weren't jobs that I saw in close proximity to my family, but I think

07:19 When it's hard to be a teacher and then you have a success as a teacher, you see yourself being a successful teacher. I never thought I would be a principal, but I, I had an experience of its not. It's a very inspiring experience, what I was doing a workshop at a school and the principal, the school had paid all this money for me to further. I work for a program that ran writing, workshops writing Workshop. The principal spent an hour talking about the lunch system at the school and whether they were going to have lunch in the classroom in the cafeteria. And I just remember thinking, wow, like so much of being an active principle. Just seems like being focused on the right things. Like this person wasn't focused on the right thing at the right time and is almost in that moment that I saw. Okay, like I want to have an impact. Two more. Inspirational reason is I want an impact on more kids and just to my classroom and in that moment it became real to me while I was like, oh, okay. This isn't as far away from my current experiences. I think it is.

08:19 I know that there should be a time to talk with teachers about when to do the lunch. And there should be a time to talk to teachers about how to Be an Effective writing teacher. And we need to be able to do all of that and the Right leader will make sure that all of those things happen. So kids can have the experience that you want.

08:40 Nothing about your family, growing up in your family.

08:43 What are things that you experienced in your family that made you good at what you do now? Let's think being a good teacher, principal or or ineffective.

08:53 Coach on the things that you learned either on purpose or by accident from your family that made you.

09:01 Have the qualities that make you affected with those things now, so I thought I should try to do something different than be a teacher. But I think my mom, my mom is always a very strict teacher very good at making sure that kids were learning what they needed to learn. And make my mom also taught me something. We call now student ownership ownership or putting the cognitive thinking back on kids. But this idea that you don't just do something for a kid or tell them. You ask them and you make them do it. And that's how they build their own capacities. I think I learned a lot from her for my dad. I learned more of my life after this sensibility. I have a strong memory of being very young like

09:52 In elementary school and my dad was watching eyes on the prize and they called me over. And I remember seeing violence perpetrated against blacks from whites in that video. And just this moment of thinking. Oh my God, I can't believe she did that to each other and my father explaining to me that that was so I don't remember his words cuz I was a little. But I remember that moment of watching that video and I think both of those things really helped shape who I am. I think I mean, you know, I'm more outspoken and social and do things a lot differently than my family, but I think that that those two parts of them definitely influenced by him today.

10:43 I guess maybe. Can you describe the work that you do? Talk about your work right now and we'll talk when I can't anymore pictures. Right now. I work at an educational Consulting organization and based on what we talked about having been an Effective Teacher ineffective. Principal. What I do know is I work with schools across the country and help them and over in Friday at work. So I could principles, I coached District leaders. I've done a lot of work in this past year to help schools restart with covid. And a lot of the work going into this year is talking about, how do we accelerate learning out of school, or District level for kids, who had all manner of experiences. This past year with covid, and make sure that students are continuing on a path of grade-level instruction. And not having people say, oh, they missed this part of third grade. So I went, let's not do some fourth grade. Let's teach them third grade, so I can always got to do some fourth grade figure out what they messed from.

11:43 Great, but I keep it moving. I'm so that's the work that I do now.

11:49 So you participate in schools Nationwide?

11:54 What is a thing that's in common with a snakes in white schools, as of what? For example, for covid-19, that you're seeing every school that you go to and what's something that you see? Like, all this only works in the school.

12:07 I think one thing that's coming across the country is that there's educational inequity. So, in every school and every distracts with Exceptions, there are students, who are demonstrating that they're learning things on grade level in their students at arms. And so, usually schools and districts call my organization to do work. When there is a gap and if not, if they're not, we always are looking for that to say. If our mission is educational equity for all students. We need to make sure that no matter where you're born, no matter what neighborhood you're in, or zip code, you're in, when you show up at the school, you're getting the same education. This email comes. So I went to the school. This year. We're white students were performing better on their District assessments and black students. So we have to look at that dad and say, okay, it's going to be true that anyway, so what are we doing to make sure every student at the school is performing, well,

13:06 How did you get into your line of work?

13:10 She get into. How do I say you didn't teach him?

13:20 This line of work with Samsung pay.

13:23 What was that? Leap. Like a left-handed person?

13:30 I think in my work, when you're

13:33 When you're a teacher, a lot of people want to move up and be a leader and be a principal, which is what I did, not everyone dies. Or should everyone do that. I think once I was a principal, I thought. Well, I like this work. I like working with other principles. I know what it means to Be an Effective principal. I know what it means to work hard to do things even better. And so I came into my work because because of the nature of my work, we have different projects that we work on. And so when I came into my job, it was to help. Run a training program for aspiring principals across five cities and that got me excited.

14:13 Is your line of work? Impact your politics?

14:17 Absolutely.

14:22 Absolutely, because I think in my work particularly, I mean, this is always true. I think those of us in this work now from covid-19 people many of the inequities that we had before and so my politics is 100% in forms by what I've seen. Both the inequities I've seen for students across the country as well as the impact. I've seen that help students. So, for example, if schools have a curriculum, that provides all students access to Great, appropriate instruction, then that has a positive impact on student learning. And so,

15:12 I want I'm in support of programs where there is effective, instruction. I know that one thing I really believe was just talking about this last night before I miss that, every family in this country should have the opportunity to send their kids to a school, where they feel their kid is safe. And their kid is challenged. Unfortunately, that's not the case. In many communities, are in many areas. I mean, you know, when I started my school, there was no option for families in the community where I started my school that had that, that they can demonstrate that their kid was going to graduate from middle school, nevermind, high school or college. And then we started to school and every single kid, graduated from middle school, high school and in college. And so when I'm loading, I'm thinking does this person recognize that there are educational and equities does this person?

16:07 Have solutions to solving for those educational inequities. And is this person willing to say things that may sound unpopular in particularly in Progressive circles, if what it means at the end of the day is that we're putting kids first. Cuz I think that's the hardest thing about setting for educational Equity is that putting kids first Sometimes results and policies that are not necessarily accepted by progressives and I identify as a progressive. And so that's the area where I feel like I'm thinking most critically when I'm working at politicians died before.

16:42 Mean example, where are you? Think putting his first doesn't mean it is at the expense of some with some of the priority or something else.

16:50 So this morning, you know, I'm on the PTA board and this morning we were talking about next year. And the PTA at our son's school has an enormous budget. Nearly half a million dollars.

17:02 We need to allocate somewhere between 35 and $70,000 for the PTA, to pay for supervision of lunch, for our son, and the school. And that is because

17:19 The contract that the teachers have and I want to be clear. I was a teacher art teachers work incredibly hard. They teacher contracts can often appear to prioritize teacher needs of our students. So the teacher contract prohibits teachers from supervising lunch, but the principles don't have money or staffed have someone whose job it is to supervise lunch. So, it means that either the school has no one to supervise lunch or they have parent volunteers and then that becomes an equitable because parents, you know, naturally spend more time with their kids with other people's kids or the 35 to $70,000 which is paying an outside agency of essentially an after-school program to supervise our kids at lunch and by all anecdotal evidence, that's not very effective. So that my belief on that is it shouldn't be up to PTA. Like why are we talkin about that? Like, why is the PTA paying and raising money?

18:19 She have our kids supervised at lunch with our son and his classmates should be able to go to school and have a safe line with no bullying and like relative, you know, just know why is not screaming or whatever happens in the cafeteria. And schools should be set up to be able to provide that first events without. So, you asked me like an example of putting kids first. I think if we put kids first, we will be asking what will help children have a safe, social fun, lunch time. And what they'd seen this year with covid? Because they had to make adjustments to the schedules, is when the teacher supervise lunch. The lunch is so much smoother, the teachers know, the kids and all that stuff about the kids, and it's just a lot smoother. And so I think in a system that prioritizes kids first, you're always asking is this what's best for the kid.

19:20 We'll talk about your campaign to get up in a minute. One of the things stuck on your campaign and you mentioned it here through a couple. These questions is the word Equity framed it to, I know, it's important you first lay it's important to you.

19:37 Professionally.

19:39 Can you explain that kind of a different language in your body use? Like what does it mean? Why is there an equity?

19:46 What can we do to change it? What are you trying to do to change it?

19:51 So I Define equity as ensuring. Everyone has the same outcome regardless of who they are and that is a positive outcome. So, excessive the same outcome. Well, the access both, but it might be different. So the second part I was going to say, is if our son grows up in our house and he has tons of books. It doesn't matter if he goes to a school that has tons of books or not, cuz he has them in her house.

20:20 So a kid who may be brought up in the house. It doesn't have as many books. They should have like they should have access to books their classroom. So it doesn't we talk a lot and education about Equity doesn't mean equal. It means Equitable outcomes. Another way we offer, Define equitable outcomes is there's no difference by subgroup that an equitable outcome means and if you look at our school district that every school would have the money they needed for their kids.

20:52 I'm having some try not to write, there's something called fair skin, and funding, which means if your student who English isn't your first language and special needs to get a little more money. If your student was a special program. You got a little more money, but some kind of Equitable funding is one example of

21:10 At a school that has left kids that got lost money. They might need more money from the district for books vs at a school. That is fully enrolled. They get more money on things. But I think your question that is a focus on outcomes. But the Acme of the outcomes are equally and head for College and Career. Some people will disagree. Should every kid go to college or not. I would argue. Every kid should have the choice to go to college. They shouldn't there's going to be a kitty wants to go to college and I can't cuz I don't have money. I can't because of their immigration status or can't because of the store that is in the access to do that. So that's another way we think about equity.

21:58 What about you? You're camping you running for city council District 39.

22:05 What made you decide to run?

22:07 Well, it was it was up to. It was actually this idea of educational Equity that got me to run. I work with a group of leaders for educational equity and their purpose is helping people with my backgrounds, get into office. Because so often those of us with this backgrounds are not necessarily getting into office cuz we're helping schools and leaders. I'm so, they were really instrumental in helping me see that. This was something I could do and see it at this. This window. I have to the world of educational Equity actually translates to how I see housing to how I see Healthcare to how I see workers rights and that

22:52 The the work that I've done for the past, 20 years to work with communities to listen to people to solve problems, to figure out things on both of micro macro scale that like work. Best for communities is actually what politicians should be doing, especially at the city council level. And so, you know, one of the examples I talked about early on is that your principal and you have student teacher conferences and you have them at night and you only got 30% attendance as Prince, Ali have to ask yourself. Where is the 70% go to people, I need to talk to them and figure out why you talk some parents you find out, you know, they couldn't get away. They want to do it in the day or, you know, now we probably didn't want to do it over Sam. You're constantly doing this problem solving to ensure that everyone has what they need in a net, specialist once a customer service my side, but this orientation toward supporting our community. And I think it's that orientation or that mindset that we need to be bringing public office to stay. Not just, I'm so smart. I have all these policy ideas.

23:52 I think I can be great. But actually, I am going to listen to my community. I'm going to lift off my the voice of my candy. I'm going to ask my community what they want and what they need and then because I have access in this political position. I'm going to say, okay. What can we make sure the city just for you to solve your problem? Because there's, you know, so many different communities of people in our district, what you? And I experienced on our block in our street as homeowners, that's white people alive.

24:19 Two working parents with one kid, like that's a different challenge than some of our other neighbors experience and I think the best politicians will be aware of what they know and what they don't know and partner in their communities to make sure they're so.

24:35 What do you say to people who hear the word equity? And think that means, like, I'm giving you something that I'm not getting to myself, or like, they'd see it as like, a zero-sum game. What, what I can buy for my kid is something. I'm taking away from your kid. Is that does not plan to discussions that you have correct? Is that some of them reticence of parents like, well, I don't believe it because it means I won't have the same resources or

25:03 Yeah, I mean, I hear that in two ways. I hear that from people when I'm communicating with voters, who hear words like diversity or equity and accuse me. This happens, his lesson conversation texting voters. So I would say, the nature of the conversation is a little different, but but her saying, like, that's racist because you don't even know what Equity means. And you know, a lot of

25:30 Rhetoric around this, the word Equity becomes very problematic for them. It becomes a very like, a theoretical conversation about why I shouldn't be using the word Equity, I think.

25:42 As a parent working on the ground with other parents. And I seen this in my elected position on Community, Education Council, you know, we have this working group where we are staying at, we are asking a question. Would it be Equitable to pull fun, PTA funding across schools? And in that conversation what we hear from a lot of our parents, not always why I'm not a waste of other white parents. The offense mother white parents is a more nuanced version of what you said, like. Oh, well, I would maybe cool, but why, why would I give all this money for my kid? And I don't know how they're going to spend it. What are they going to do with that money?

26:22 And is someone listening to that? I think. Well, they're going to do the same things we do with our PTA money, like pay for a $40,000 art residency. That the school district is in funding, but I definitely hear a lot from people and people who would call themselves Progressive, would call themselves focused on Equity, but I think it's very difficult when you're talkin about parents and privileged parents to help people understand why all. So, you might have to give up some of your privilege to benefit another kid. I think our communities only going to make these changes. If those of us who have more privileged are willing to say, what do I do for the benefit of whole and not just a benefit of my own kid? Cuz if you're just operating on like, what's best for my kids, you're not thinking about all the other kids, that might not be served. Well by that decision. And that shift, that would really help us address the issue.

27:22 Equity in our own community.

27:28 Can you talk to me about the highest and lowest moments of this campaign?

27:34 Sure, there's so many loans. I enjoy talking to people and it's really hard with covid-19. Just see what it would be like campaigning in a different year. But I love just talking to people hearing what their problems are and thinking about, what could we do to help them? You know, I had shared with you that I spoke to someone who is in line at a food pantry that was sharing with me that, you know, she had this flooding issue in her building and she had three feet of still water in their basement, and she had called the current candidates office, and I've gotten a reply, and then the smell of the water was so bad that she could smell it. So I said, she's on the third floor and how much water there was enough standing water, that she smells it on the third floor and when someone from the office, finally called her back, they said

28:30 You got to talk to your Block Association. She was like, I don't have a Block Association. And so

28:37 I appreciate just those interactions with people who are living in our community that want to be having a better experience. Like housing is a human, right? Like how does human right people in our community? Should be living in safe houses, not having to deal with that. And we are people who, you know, our politicians want to be politicians, should be serving our community. That should be like the number one thing. I appreciate being able to have those conversations with people one-on-one and also just being able to talk about why education is so important to me.

29:14 You know what? There's a lot of barriers as someone running for office, for the first time as a woman who has, who has not done. This before, isn't coming from this, background isn't coming from an establishment. And I think, even and, you know, before I came into this, I thought that the establishments were about in a Republican party or Democrat Party, but there's establishments and structures, Every Which in some ways, it's great that all candidates can get financial and, and Slick capacity support, but it's really, it's been hard for me to keep my day job, which I need to do. I can't afford, we can't afford her life for me to quit my job to run for city council, but to do my job, you know, raise our son, run for city council and then not have access to all these things, people know. So I know now that when you to run for office, you have to file with the campaign Finance board file with the campaign Finance.

30:14 Which is what makes it official. You have to get a bank account to get a bank account. You have to get a bank that understands what it means to open a political bank account and feels okay with that. So, I got so many rejections either from people who just didn't know, at the bank, or didn't understand it, or aren't allowed to, and then ended up talking to someone. Like it took me three weeks to get that bank account. And so when I talk to, who's been in this political world, more told me. Oh, yeah. I heard there's a secret list of banks that open the account. And I just thought about before I spent three weeks that I could have been campaigning racing money, just like trying to find a bank. And then, you know, as I wrote about in that Abed, this idea. I'd like to tell challenging was for the Board of Elections that we brought the petitions. You have to get signatures. We got the signatures and because you hadn't put the sticker on the petitions and just took the

31:14 That there was but you know, we could spend the rest of it but that that mistake then Lads like three other Corrections of mistakes, which then led to the Board of Elections. Kicking me off the ballot which then led to us having to pay a lot of money, but fortunately, a savings for to have lawyers. Help us arguing and course, I can get back on the ballot and then I lost time. And I lost my meds on my last fundraising opportunities. I lost the opportunity to be on the list of candidates earlier. Something. I'm still fighting to this day. Even yesterday. I was replying to an organization another website because they're listing the candidates and they haven't stood me and so it's I think that like I knew it would. I don't I think anybody runs for office knows it's going to be challenging and I haven't even talked about how men speak to me about it, which I think is another challenge. Just the sexism and misogyny that goes into politics. But these other barriers as the first-time candidate. I think we're

32:14 Really eye-opening to me. Because I thought when we went in, I just would work hard and be tough and try to not let things get under my skin. And that's all I would be dealing with. But to know that we could do, all the work that you and I both did to try to get things right with the Board of Elections and still have it be wrong. I think that's the stuff. That was a real low point that thought this, this shouldn't be like, that should be something that I'm doesn't hold people back. That was my next question was, how did you feel the moment you first heard you were removed from the ballot, but I can, I can. I mean I was in shock. I was devastated because I didn't understand.

32:59 That you could do all this work. You could do the bank account. You could apply, you could read all the websites and write everything down and gather the signatures and Google them all to make sure that there and distract and they qualify and bring them in and think you're doing everything and then make up paperwork mistake. That would remove you like I did. I did not know before I ran that the penalty for an error of like omitting a word on a sheet, would be removal from the ballot, and I think that that was so unjust. It was devastating. It also fired me up cuz I thought this is so crazy. Everybody. We told who's not familiar with the board of elections in New York City. Just was like that. That's why you got kicked off The Ballot because

33:48 I think if we're really going to live our vision of having a city that is more where city council is more representative of all the different wonderful like dimensions of diversity that we all live in the city. For we have to be removing those barriers. And so that really fired me up in that fight. And so, you know, it took money and time and lawyers. I am back on the ballot, but it was so such a painful process to have to go through them.

34:20 The person who was responsible for the very painful for me as to what do you seen in this campaign? That gives you hope about local politics?

34:34 Well, in the last over 20 years and our district. There been two people that I've represented us.

34:45 One of them is now the mayor and in one of her, you know, maybe the controller and so,

34:52 I think.

34:55 When I think about that and we talked about this at The Forum last night. You think about their, I'm one of seven people running for that spot. It's inspiring to think that the next person and those shoes could be different than the two predecessors and by different. I mean not a white man who was a lawyer or a business man, like a woman or a person of color or someone who comes not from the Democratic kind of machine that we have in York City. And so that whether it's me or not, the opportunity that we are going to have, there's actually a 34 of 51 seats open right now. For City Council in New York City, in each of these races is beautifully. Busy with so many candidates more. Women were people of color, and I think that makes me really hopeful because whoever wins in our race war and races across the city. I think it's really going to transform with the city council looks like and hopefully ones that have

35:55 Since they'll be less of the barriers that so many of us have faced. I mean, I'm not the only one whose face barriers all of us, a face barriers to get here. So my it makes me hopeful that some of those will be reduced when the new group of horses.

36:15 I think that might be a reasonable place for actually this to end the interview.