JoAn Peters and Tom Peters

00:02 I'm Joanne Peters. I'm 55 years old. Today is Monday January 6th to 10th 2020 and we are here in Santa Monica, California. My interview partner is my handsome husband Tom Peters and I am his wife.

00:24 My name is Tom Peters. I'm 70 years old.

00:28 And today is Monday, January 6th, 2020 where in Santa Monica, California and I'll be interviewing my lovely wife Joanne.

00:40 You're my wife partner.

00:44 Okay, who wants to ask first

00:48 I'll start okay.

00:51 We were going to talk about.

00:54 A secret we have from everyone we know I think it's mainly a secret because no one ever asks this question. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. So I understand that secret is that before? We got married? We were going to have a baby and we decided not to have a baby together. We weren't married and

01:25 I guess.

01:28 For own Cosmic reasons

01:32 We really weren't ready to get married. You were clearly not ready to get married and when I think about it, maybe I wasn't ready psychologically emotionally to get red married, but I wanted to marry you I did so want to talk about that day.

01:53 That day

01:56 I wish I remembered that day it was I remember everything leading up to it cuz I think

02:05 We had been.

02:07 When we found out you were pregnant.

02:10 Around then we were having discussions about our relationship and I at the time I think 55 years old. Yeah. Yeah, and I've been married twice three kids already back in Michigan and really thought starting all over and getting married and knowing that you wanted a child.

02:36 As scary as it could possibly be for me at the time and but I I do recall.

02:46 I think our decision.

02:50 Was correct me if I'm wrong not discussed a lot.

02:56 No, well, I think I made the decision for us. Cuz when we were in the midst of the disk of talking about having baby you I was you know, I was the Weeping person and you know, maybe it was hormonal, but I'm sure it was also because I was just madly in love with you and you didn't want to get married but you I was sitting on the couch and I was crying so hard I was stopping and you came and knelt beside me. And you said well we can go to Las Vegas and get married and I and I remember asking you if you were marrying me because you loved me and you wanted to be married or if you were marrying me because it's the right thing to do for the yet-to-be-born child.

03:49 And you said you were marrying me because it was the right thing to do for there yet to be born child, and I said well and I don't want to get married and I don't want to have this, baby.

04:00 Yes, it's a good memory. Yeah, yeah, I remembered.

04:07 Yes. Yeah, so I was

04:12 I was adamant about that. I did you know, I'd seen too many people get married for that reason and

04:22 It doesn't it eventually doesn't work out and everybody's life is just upside down and I didn't want to have a child with you.

04:38 And you not be sure that you love this child for the sake of the child you love them and you weren't just being a dutiful parent. I didn't think that was fair to anybody most, you know, the child most of all the child but in addition to you cuz I loved you and I I knew how important it was for you to live the life that you had imagined and if I was going to if I and a child were going to be Miss.

05:11 I don't know.

05:13 Noose around your neck, you know, you would my fear was you could grow to resent us and resent the baby and

05:25 I don't think children should ever have to experience a parent.

05:30 Not grateful every day that they have this child and not look at their child as a burden. I don't think they should ever look at their child as a inconvenience or burden and the what-if and I I just didn't want to do that. You know, I knew

05:48 And I knew

05:51 I couldn't give

05:54 Is child or that child a life that I had envisioned for or her I wasn't I wasn't emotionally ready. I wasn't financially ready and I had a good job and everything but

06:12 It wasn't the best job for raising a child or even a mediocre job for raising a child. It was the hours were bad and just crazy so

06:23 And I recall at the time I was at that graphic design job is to

06:33 Make it in Los Angeles on way to have this Sweatshop type job that sounded good as a graphic designer, but thank God for that job. Cuz we not if you know where I was at that party. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So on the day, I remember the only well.

06:56 There are a couple of things I read that stand out in my memory about her about the day of the abortion.

07:03 But one of the things that does not stand out was I never

07:09 You took it. Very you took very good care of me. Day, you know you watched out for me and you you know, you really

07:20 Really nurtured me during that time.

07:24 But I don't remember doing that for you you and I don't remember ever asking you how you felt about it cuz you had a you had a different.

07:39 Life experience than I text you where you are the eldest of 10 kids.

07:45 You know you grew up in a Catholic Family that sent all 10 kids to church every Sunday and I never asked you how you felt about being a participant ever have an aborted pregnancy. So I guess now is the

08:07 The time to ask how did you feel about that?

08:13 I was definitely torn it was.

08:19 My mother went to Catholic school and I think I might have told you about.

08:26 Interviewing her my brother and I he was up from Florida and we interviewed my mother and ask that question my mother why 10 children to stuck, you know, every time you mention that the people 10, she she said that the nuns at the Catholic School said if you ever tried to prevent having a child and they use the politically incorrect fifties term of you would have a retarded one that she bought into it which was two my brother can and I just almost shocking we had to hold back, but that kind of

09:05 Indoctrination by the church. I had someone meet at the time I had grown way past that and

09:18 I knew it was.

09:21 Yours our right do the end of your pregnancy. So I was just comforting you trying to get through the

09:36 Procedure itself and keep you safe

09:41 Yeah.

09:43 And it's interesting cuz I I didn't have that Faith perspective of it. I was more of a

09:57 You know, if you're going to have a child then you better be ready. You know, you child didn't call you up one day and say Hey, listen, I need a parent, you know, you've made this decision and you better you should be able to look down the road and say whatever happens I can do this for this kid. It's not going to be a struggle and I remember driving to work one day and I had to pull over and talk to the

10:30 Yet to enter the Body Spirit of the baby and they look, you know, I'd love nothing more than to be a parent but

10:41 I can't give you a life you deserve and I don't trust anyone on this Earth to give you that life. You deserve.

10:53 And you're my baby and I'm your mother and it's not safe out here for you, you know, and I remember saying those things and saying

11:04 I promise that eventually I will find the right person and we will be together but this is you know, currently this isn't it? I love this man, but we're just not ready and I want you to have the best.

11:25 And I I I know it's it was just a it was just a flash that I did that and then I drove to work and the I never questioned our decision to to have the abortion. I just never I never regretted it. I never worried about it at all. In fact, whenever anyone's talking talks about an abortion if they ask me I never you know, do that mealy-mouthed Moon and I will say yeah, I had one and you know, that was that was a responsibility of parenting I had that

12:11 There are too many kids in this world that their parents have them but they don't take good care of them or they don't have the means and I didn't want that for my child and I don't want my child to ever say why isn't my father here? You know, why doesn't he ever talk to me or why is it, you know, I only see him on weekends, you know, so the Anna now that we that should we fast forward or should we stay right there? Okay. Well, we are fast forward. We got back together almost a year and ultimatum me when you're ready to get married and have a child. Yeah, and I

13:03 Ran for the hills back to single life.

13:08 A year-and-a-half

13:10 I thought successfully having a great time and dating other women, but couldn't get you out of my mind parent Lee loved you as much as you love me and

13:23 I ran into your friend Katie Haiti after about a year-and-a-half and asked about you.

13:32 Thinking she would say how she did move onto you know life is good with her and she said she's waiting for you and I was like really, you know in

13:46 I saw at that time. I remember what flash in my mind at that time was I was ready. I had met all these other wonderful women and they were not you never forget having asking you to lunch. Yeah, he's crazy.

14:09 And this thing going from there to

14:14 Planning the wedding reading

14:18 And then after a while having problems getting pregnant, I know the voice in my mom, but my voice the voice in my head of my mother was saying see for that abortion cuz it took so long to took a long time.

14:41 Call dr. Katz was it dr. Katz? That was to expel was another I forgot his name. I'm so sorry that we was like it's that $8,000 and I said well, it's $8,000 to get the baby in there and you don't even guarantee that I'm going to get pregnant on the first try and then we got to raise it. So we're going to start at least $8,000 in the hole. And so I know that's that doesn't seem right, you know, especially, you know you by the time we got married you or 58 and and I was no Euphoria from 57 and I was

15:31 41 42 42 or maybe were a little bit younger than that. Yeah, but then we found out what was I thought was a cold hanging on for dear life was actually a pregnancy running amok in my body. So yeah, we took us about a year-and-a-half to get pregnant Anna x 42 and 58th. La came into the world the most perfect baby that anyone could ever ask for she was beautiful and the kind of personality that seems like

16:14 Yeah, I'm here. I'm we're both here. I'm going to give you a run for your money. Yeah, yeah.

16:25 Quite the personality right out of the gate, right? Yeah, and I always look back and think it happened correctly. It was the right thing for us. You know, I I can't I can't get enough of when the two of you together you love her you and it shows and she adores you the I don't know I think sometimes if

16:55 If I'm not there you guys would be just fine cuz you love one another so much and that you would

17:04 And she looks so much like you it was always so interesting when I when I take her for a walk and you know, you could tell she was my baby because of her skin color. She was up coffee and cream mixed together, but

17:22 She didn't have anything less of me. You know me. You know, she look like you coming out and she was so beautiful. So beautiful people would stop and say she's so beautiful and I have to keep myself from saying yes, I know.

17:41 Yes, I know.

17:45 Yeah, and what it go on side well with all that was so career changes that were all positive. I finally got you made you some my doctorate degree and started teaching at the college where you able to move from the valley to Santa Monica and put her in private school like she is now quite happy.

18:11 But I have to wait if I was to reflect back onto if we would have went ahead.

18:21 It would have so been like hiccups. I'd had along the way of my life before that marrying my first wife way too early before I even got drafted. I have three wonderful children, but then when we divorced married on the rebound, so I just kept making.

18:46 Choices the drive myself backwards

18:53 I wish I felt pretty.

18:57 Pretty blessed by the fact that when it come down to that crucial decision to have that abortion. We were

19:05 On the same page and then come back to each other about our relationship is

19:15 We are together intentionally.

19:19 And we are

19:25 We're not I guess it's not a hiccup that we're together. It's not you know, okay. Well, you're the only guy hanging around. So yes, I guess I'll marry you kind of think it really is intentional that we are.

19:43 A couple and we're friends and we're lovers and you're my boyfriend and you're my husband and you're the father of my child.

19:56 It was everything I wanted your everything I wanted and she is to

20:02 Anna

20:04 And one of the things I wanted not only for myself, but for you I wanted you to have the life you had intended, you know, I value of the fact that you had retired from the store from the steel mill after 40 years and you drove all the way to California or dreamed place to live and

20:30 I wanted to be a part of the intentional dream and not and an accident or you know a misfire that you have to

20:42 Keep me now and keep paying for so yeah.

20:48 Yeah, that's what I wanted. And that's what we have Kinect Ali have yeah.

20:56 So

21:00 What else?

21:02 What do you think about telling a lie about cuz we haven't told her about it yet. Just 13 and

21:14 I think these this conversation could come up and or she could listen to storycorps probably could yeah, I think it's I think it's about time. I don't know what the context is all different.

21:37 Well, I wouldn't want her to think.

21:41 It was brought up.

21:47 To talk about teenage pregnancies cuz that's

21:53 Well, I don't know.

21:55 Yeah, you can ponder for sure and now I'm so I think we'll have to talk about it at some point. But you know, it's one of those things. That's why I'm always pushing her to go do an Explorer don't limit herself.

22:10 I don't want you know, I want her.

22:13 To have

22:16 The feeling I have about our our marriage and our Parenthood of when I see other people doing something they are retired and their kids are grown and they're going on different trips and stuff like that or they're trying to cram in things. They didn't do when they were younger. There's a there's a bit of regret that they talked about that they have that they married so young and they missed out on doing these things and and I went by the time we married and

22:50 A deli I knew I had done everything that I pretty much wanted to do that at that time in my life at the various stages of my life. I was capable and willing to tell and anything that I hadn't done yet. I realize I recognized that I had the opportunity but chose not to so if it comes up now and I can't do it.

23:14 I can honestly say that I regret not being able to do it in that moment cuz I had the opportunity and right now I'm doing something that I really wanted to and being a wife and I'm raising a child. I had a friend who said she would never have kids because she was too selfish and she didn't want to share any part of herself her husband her time and her money with raising a child in it first. I thought I said so

23:45 That is selfishness. So harsh.

23:49 But I get it now I get it. There is people in the world that don't want to.

23:58 They want to squeeze as much out of their life without having to postpone anything.

24:06 Do you feel about that? You've gotten what you want? Yes, I would have never dreamt.

24:12 Reaching the age of 70 and feeling excited about the next 5 or 10 years when I was younger when you were 70 or you're checking out soon. My father died at 71 and I

24:29 Night

24:32 I want to read to find all that for myself.

24:38 Living Rich

24:41 He'll end of my life so it's big.

24:46 Enough for the rest of the life was challenging that this feels like I'm excited about it moving forward.

24:54 Can't wait to watch Ellie go through the next 4-5 years.

25:01 Icicle are teenagers in.

25:05 When she gets in their twenties Ino.

25:10 What's a feeling I play golf with plenty of 9 year old men that are in pretty good shape. So I will shoot for 95 good. That's what I'm shooting for before only be 80 and then I have to be lonely. So maybe you'll have to go to a hundred and then we'll

25:47 We go together.