Jordan Miller and Bruce Miller

00:02 All right.

00:06 Okay, my name is Bruce Miller. I'm 65 years old today is December 13th, 2019, and we're in Chicago at the selfhelp home.

00:17 And I'm going to really my father Jordan Miller.

00:24 My name is Jordan Miller. I'm 93 years old today is the 13th of December 2019, and I'm at the self-help home and Bruce Miller. My son is my interview Potter.

00:47 Okay, Jordan. I just wanted to bring you back two years ago Mary smita's Economist the Chicago Tribune did an article about you and the fact that you were giving concerts are at the selfhelp home as a singer of you know syrup popular songs from the 1930s and 40s and you told her that you were the oldest living pop singer in America. That's right. I wanted to ask you about that. Well, I just wanted to try to find out whether that was a valid my position and I did a little research and I discovered that I'm 6 months older than Tony Bennett. So I felt that prove my case which is why I maintain that position. So you've always been interested in music, right? Yes. I have pretty much.

01:39 But more recently started giving his concerts. That was a new thing for you. That was quite knew it started. Actually you when we were still living in Glencoe Barbara Davis who is a realtor there was in the same office building I was in and I noticed it in one of her office has she has this huge piano which I thought was unusual for a commercial office. And she said, yes, she loved music and play the piano. When did I have a similar interest I said while I do the same thing and she said well, let's get together and we worked out some songs and we had I think two concerts at wish we had some 60 people and we sang the usual American catalog songs from all the well-known song writers of the 30th of the 40s 50s maybe and it was very successful and I continued that

02:39 When I came to the selfhelp home, and I think I've given 405 concerts are people keep asking me when I'm going to do another one of the problem is of course if my my pianist has left for greener pastures and are having filled that role yet so unaware, but otherwise, I have every intention of continuing nefarious.

03:06 I thought I'd explore a little bit of your history with music because it goes back to as I recall back to when you were a teenager growing up in the in the Boston area. I grew up in Newton Centre which is a a Boston suburb.

03:25 And if it happened one of my closest friends with George win who is the founder of the Newport and the New York jazz festivals in with a great pianist and that he was going by positions to his house and guess for example, if he was telling you to a guitarist and one of them to come to his house to a party he'd say don't bring your axe man. And that was a good jazz term for a guitar instrument and I met a number of musicians red Allen JC Higginbotham people are friends and we sometimes saying and play together. We we once entertained at one of his mother's Bridge days and she wanted us to entertain them and they were talking so loud that they couldn't I couldn't hear us singing so

04:25 What we did was we just got inserted nasty words and they didn't pay attention and we we thought that was hilarious and we laughed quite a lot. But anyway, George was a great job on Spotify even even in his high school days, and then he would have got out of high school. He bought a small Jazz venue in Boston called the Ken club and turn that into a much more ambitious Venture and then eventually you went to New York and met the Laura line. A couple of lorillard tobacco company or very interested in and Jazz as well and they funded the production of the Newport Jazz Festival with Droid produced and it was extremely successful than he did, New York.

05:25 When heated jazz festivals all over the country the secret history of what the back of money can do. I'm Sorry by the secret history of what the back of money can do. He said don't bring your ass because he was going to play the piano was at the idea. He didn't want them to think he wanted them to be entertainers. He wanted to be just friends of his you know, how I say, I will wait don't go bring your axe come and be a guest and all I get and since they were all black and since this was the 40s that was kind of unusual in. Oh, right, right.

06:03 Interesting

06:06 So and then you also told me that they used to hitchhike from Boston or New York. Yes. I did that several times and 52nd Street with a big place for I guess of the nearest the one I can think of is the famous door with one of them. And are you still going on the highway hitchhike to New York stay at the YMCA? Because it was cheap probably like $10 a night or something and spend a few days recovering of the joints on 52nd Street even while I was in high school. I did that my parents didn't try to stop me. I'm always wondered about that. I mean I didn't ask for that permission. I just said I'm going to New York and they said okay different era and of course in those days, you could actually hitchhike somewhere.

07:06 And get at your destination without being killed here. We're very convenient for me. Am I right about that. I met musicians and Brody's I'm at one Roti. I think it was for the from the I can't remember what band he was a roadie for but the in the black kid and I shall I tell the story of La Crosse color story, but I think you should tell her I'm going to take he said that he wanted to say that woman had no and when I come along with a nice, I'm sure.

07:48 So we went up to this third floor place. So the rickety, and play some nice looking black woman came out and said hello to him and they disappeared into another room and I sat in that sort of the vestibule outside and sometime later they both came out and this will reveal what they were doing. She said to him not to me she said

08:18 Don't the one boy wanted and he said nah.

08:23 I was only fifteen I was a little nervous about the whole thing. And then after that he went to buy some some pot and he bought these little little brown cigarettes for 25 or $0.50 a piece or something and it was my pal while I was on that trip Bible. That was something a little different from what you were used to.

08:53 I wish I was a little different from what you were used to.

09:03 So I know not to turn it into a more somber subject here, but I know you wanted to talk about growing up in Boston a little bit and about unusual thing that happened to you as a baby right when I was two and a half years old one of my aunts. Like my father's sister was holding me in a grocery store. And then we're whole bunch of orange crates all around the standing up on end and she dropped me and I left 5 was struck by the corner of one of these one of these crates and the next day my leg blew up to double the size. I was rushed to Children's Hospital.

09:57 And I had what's known as osteomyelitis. What's his name the baseball player whose last name was mantle. I forgot his first Mickey Mickey Mantle. He had it in his and his lower leg. I had mine in my left femur or what two years old and has had two and a half years old.

10:23 My parents didn't seem to like to talk about it. I can understand why but I never knew what I know. I never asked them anything about it, but I didn't know whether I spent two and a half years and won one lump or whether I made a number of visits there to the hospital in the hospital in the hospital over three years and two and a half years. I total total of two and a half years and I remember nothing about it. The only thing I remember is when my mother did tell me one story about it, which was kind of revealing kind of telling

11:05 She said she was visited me once and it was a nurse standing at the foot of the bed.

11:14 And the window is open.

11:17 And all my mother is sitting there and a bird landed on the windowsill and I turned and I said look at the birdie and the nurse said he talks and my mother says of course he talks so it's kind of an inside and one must have been like to be traumatized the way I certainly must have been mute most of the day in retrospect. I think about the impact on my life that must have had because I had a lot of problems As I Grew into adulthood can do in school and various other behavioral problems at the very compelling and worrying.

12:04 To my parents certainly as well as to me. We have a truant from school and that sort of thing. I feel have some yellowing letters that my father had exchanged with the principal of Newton High School of bemoaning my behavior about my truancies and all that sort of thing. I still have them.

12:30 How many way?

12:32 What your father was was not someone that?

12:37 How can I say this is kind of the bane of your existence in your life. He was some kind of a troubled man. I'm like my mother or saying all the time. She was in the choir at Temple Emanuel, which it was a two doors away from my house and the other Newton and Newton Center in center and she saying all the time if you said something that reminded her for song she burst into song she was extremely happy and very appealing and such a contrast my father who dolorous brooding sort of person, you know, so if it comes Harrison between the two were so so stock, but you couldn't help but

13:37 Birthday is moved by it somehow or no.

13:40 Subaru Forester music family what we had actually six people living in a house. That was my mother and father and my sister and my maternal grandfather and my uncle my mother's brother.

14:10 Soho how to sell a large extended family and

14:23 I think

14:26 My troubles with my father cast a shadow over my my future life and that's something that I haven't thought about until fairly recently, but it's good. So let's put some lights on for me. I don't mean to play armchair psychiatrist, but it's maybe understand myself a lot better than I used to.

14:56 Right where you always made it pretty clear that certainly that you didn't get along with them and that he was difficult person. So moving on in the story of your life. So you you left Chicago and that must have been kind of a relief you left the Boston area, right and you went to what you want me to call you once I went to my first three years of college at the College of Wooster and a lot of the stories about what happens there fell in with her. It was a presbyterian still in from Presbyterian College. I think I was the only jewelry student there. I think there was one other clotted you there, but I guess I couldn't prove it to know and are they had compulsive compulsory church and Chapel?

15:50 Which was a strange thing for me, but it's the only time I ever took communion. I always wanted to do it but what surprised me was the crudity of the accoutrement since I use cuz if I mean, I was expecting a sort of sort of special kind of maybe crispy kind of cracker as the body of Christ and real wine for the blood instead. Those little vials are grape juice and something very much like Wonder Bread and of course I was sitting next to someone who I knew was a pretty ministerial student and when I got this little square of bread and ate it I couldn't remember the name Wonder Bread.

16:41 Because it is a national brand which he would have known. So I mentioned the name of bread the bread in Boston at which was called Bond Bond. So I turned to him and I said why it's just Bond bread and he looked at me and I said don't you understand? It's just like Bond bread and he moved away from the old. He was terrified. I thought I'd gone crazy or something, you know, but anyway, that's my real for real and true into a foreign religion is the right right? So then you you left and you went to roast a 3 years and

17:28 We did a lot of little funny things going on various, you know various what to do. If I forgot the word for where students live dormitory and we would known as sort of a young man who has no no quit in their hearts, but I I did it with her own publication too much time, but I got to tell you the story about how I suggested to one of the officials over the food distribution that it was just after the war and it was a little of the forties.

18:20 Her late forties and I said look, why don't we do this? Why don't we eliminate bread from two of them meals and take whatever the revenue that that renders and send it to a charitable agency in Europe for people who are starving and whoever that wasn't I think that's a great idea. So they didn't and then two days later or a day later. My roommate Kenny said well, I hope your happy Miller just a little naughty is going to going to like the food he gets on our money ball joints as a Christian colleges in it, and he said all and he walked out I was infuriated that I done that you know,

19:18 I never told you that story anyway, so I never move on well, then you did your last year at Roosevelt Roosevelt Roosevelt College in those days.

19:34 And that's where I met Anita.

19:37 My wife and I didn't know if you told me later that she stalked me because I I noticed that every course that I had she showed up in my photo. Look at that. I need a wolf Burger gotten to know. Of course. She did that purposely went to her own classes, but you went to all of my

20:06 I didn't realize it until no I didn't watch later.

20:13 And you are a philosophy major right? I was a philosophy major which was a big mistake, of course because nobody would hire me when I get out of school.

20:24 So you ended up staying in Chicago then from?

20:29 Will you move back to Boston for a while right? We did move back to Boston, but that didn't work out. I'm afraid.

20:39 Relationship with my father just wasn't working on.

20:46 It's interesting that once you moved back to Chicago and you started Midwest news clip, which is a business that you ran started in 1956. If I remember correctly 1959 actually 59s was a news clipping agency, which was a agency where you would have readers sitting at desk reading newspapers for clients is an encircling the mentions of their names and then you have a group of Cutters cutting them out of the newspapers and I would be Nails weekly to people and this was obviously way before the internet. So it was a big business or not. It was that that's the only way to find out if they were covered in the news last night. There was a very profitable business to I was very lucky to have it end.

21:45 I want to get ahead of the story but it was largely responsible for funding our publishing company, which didn't come along until 1975 which is considerably later on in the story. Right you and my mother Anita started Academy Chicago Publishers what you intended as kind of a general-interest publisher, which is kind of unusual for a small company usually start out with some kind of specialty.

22:20 But when you started that it seems to me you always had interests other than the interest of a running nose clip. You always were sparring other things if this is right, that's probably the biggest example, so you ran that company until you know fairly recently don't maybe it wasn't it wasn't very long after I established. The company was 1959 and 1963. I remember I hired a lot of space at McCormick Place. So do an Arts Festival Chicago needs and Arts Festival.

23:11 All kinds of artists we had a juried show part of it was Jared for professional artists, and the other part was for people who bought space like Sunday painters were even out of contingent to from the Chicago Police Department with head head painters from the Chicago Police Department, and we had a great publicity and it looks like there's going to be a huge success of the only problem was that the day after we opened it was in November 1963, John Kennedy was assassinated.

23:52 Of course that that destroyed the

23:56 The whole show right right now.

24:01 Yeah, that was that was unfortunate. I moved depressing story for just about every decade. Well, I kind of wanted to get you into talking about we talked about music and

24:15 You're also always been a poet. So I know when I was growing up Mom introduced me 40s one of the few women to get a PhD in English at Northwestern University at that time and you both introduced me to poetry and fairly early age and and dubbed.

24:41 You know, it was one of the things that you did sort of extracurricular activities all these things that you were always doing. One of them was it had to do with poetry wanted to talk about that a little bit. Well, I took a course at the pond University Paul Carroll was the best-known poet in Chicago at the time and then when they finish the course of several ask him if he'd like to do a class in my office one evening a week. He said he quit he was too busy, but the calls John Logan we always a local told him I think University of Indiana, so he agreed to it.

25:23 And we did we did get together and do we read our poems to each other and then we'd hold criticize them. You know, I work shops like a poetry workshops. Are we then published a book of poetry. We got the parts to come in Chicago and you coming in a minute twice Robert Lowell.

25:57 I can pick up those were for public readings for a while with an actual Theater in Chicago that Northern theater or something Great. Northern said it was in the same building our office within in fact was knocked down low to build federal office building anymore. We like to knock down the old historic buildings are in Chicago. That's all that's when I noticed him looking at the book you publish which ones are projected magazine. I guess you only did a couple issues call choice not to be confused with another Choice magazine is the weather today that you had a lot of well-known poets in there. Contributed phone ccummings a r Ammons a whole bunch of

26:58 And this is just a result of a group of people getting together and deciding to have their own, you know, poetry Workshop remarkable and it shows the kind of cultural ferment that you had going on here in Chicago and you met Eddie Cummings right met him twice and we got along great. It was very strange man for a Sean. Remember when we were in Hyde Park was doing a reading there and he noticed two people coming to an end, but you must have known something and hid behind a Nita didn't want to talk to you. You're very weird guy that wrote some Andy some poems. I wrote some anti-Semitic.

27:58 We didn't get into it and I don't know I'm sure you and then my own book of poems published. I got a great review in the Sacramento boy three of you with a rave review homepage. Actually the Naomi Lazard was a third of a half of all known poet compare me to William Wordsworth, which I thought it came out. I forget what year was in the wild thought you might want to tell the story about Robert Lowell because it's kind of funny, but even my mother went to the Robert Lewis house. Was it for everyone turns how she left in Back Bay so-called friend and you happen to be in Boston going back home to see some relatives and I thought well, maybe we should maybe we could call on him, you know.

28:58 Kelly rode him in the truck come in and have a drink

29:03 Okay, so we going to have this point it's nice and we noticed that there was a strange looking guy with a sort of hole for a collar pacing up and down in front of his house in a very Tony part of Back Bay because you know, he was he was part of the fun of the the Blueblood sword in Boston. I know that I did hear about his to good old Boston the home of the bean and the Cod weather for the cabinets be going to the lodge has the largest speak only to God Robert Lowell came from that class. And right now he's not. Okay. Well, I will have a nice evening.

29:53 We went there and

29:56 His wife came to the doors wife with somebody famous, but I forgot who it was and she started to take us up the stairs in the little kid sitting on the stairs and she looked up at us all Harriet ad with a bit of avocado for dinner.

30:15 And I talk to myself all the windows. You look so crabby. You know that we go up to the power and the like 20 watt bulb and every lamp and it was it was like a like a shout out of a movie or something and I look so creepy and we shot down in a few minutes later. This character was the Hoover, came in and obviously he was anxiously waiting for the appointed time. He thought it was appropriate for him to come in yet. So he was a student at the Harvard Cambridge which is of course the Next Day Air next door to Boston.

30:55 And he was invited to tell I was telling low how successfully we sold Cummings as book.

31:07 And this creep pops up and says I'm talking about about the

31:17 Tell me there's a book 99 Palms. I think it was he said why you should have put a racy cover on the music Soul even more and then he starts from middle Commerce. She's a little things which his wife handed to Anita and you was going to take them in hand to me. So they had a sort of town of war going on and she said don't you please just take one in the whole evening was a social disaster in these people. They're supposed to be so classy and everything. I'm in complete Apes. I know they were very gracious to Our Guest.

32:14 Anyone course

32:16 Lowell had his mental problem and he been incarcerated and in-home at various times. He's not not a well man rising right? So when I said that was an interesting sidelight on what was generally I have to experience that you're dealing with various poets and bring them to Chicago to read poetry.

32:42 So end up. I know you also were involved in the music of my brother Mark had a band.

32:49 Had a band and you produce the band and they produce some records to try to you know, try to get them a recording contract or something like that. I know and then you wrote a lot of songs yourself. I did I did and I still have some of the tapes of some very good. And so yeah, so you did all this while you were running nose clip. This is what you came for the publishing company. That's right, though.

33:17 Yes, I did and

33:21 I'm still writing songs.

33:26 I'm flattered very rewarding because obviously a good song is also good poetry.

33:37 I mean if you can be dog roll, or I can be a good poetry and I know and I know you wrote a song about Trump that you thought it was it was very good. I wrote the Bradenton Florida Go songs and then I am the swamp because that's what I was thinking. I'm obsessed with this guy in a while. I am afraid so I know what it would you have one you wanted to read?

34:13 It's not that one in front of you know, it's here somewhere.

34:20 What's this?

34:22 Oh, that's it. Okay, sorry.

34:26 Anyway, this is a very depressing love songs. So I hope that's okay. It's called what can I do with tomorrow around then sing it acapella. I'll just read it. Okay, cuz it's a poem.

34:45 What can I do with tomorrow the door has been shot and you've gone and there's no such thing as sweet sorrow.

34:56 When Love cannot sleep, but it's done.

35:00 The nice is eternal for grieving and stars Mark by size as they blink.

35:09 The wind does it stands a weird weaving one's here once they're in a wink.

35:17 The rain-soaked street is deserted except for a single a car.

35:24 Burning blunts of ring bespattered

35:28 Like I said a little world of our own what shall I do with tomorrow when the sun spreads its hideous light.

35:39 And I don't see that long has nothing to borrow, but I will need to keep as a right but only to keep as a ride.

35:51 Well, it's listening. That is very uplifting.

36:00 So well that leaves me speechless at this point, but

36:05 But yeah, I think your poetry does 10 devasandra cast but I thought our tree by its nature is kind of melancholy. I mean if your reading poetry to do, you know because you're depressed and you want to feel better probably not the best way to do it, I will I mean

36:24 A lot of the greatest poetry. I mean nevermind Shakespeare poetry ever written a lot of it is Sombra has to be somber I mean

36:42 Death sex

36:49 Love Love Sex and Death of the three main themes in poetry and all that. I think I shall never see a poem lovely as a tree is pressed. It reminds me when you remember I think maybe you're too young to remember.

37:14 What's his name? Anyway, he was a it was a dog real poet and we used to have this or phrase what we would say we each other. I'd rather flow of my washing machine test then read a poem by Edgar guest Blossom insect with a test for syphilis. You're probably do that.

37:52 So anyway

37:58 So we didn't really talk much about the publishing company, but that's a whole other chapter. So I was afraid if we started talking about that, you know that we use up the entire time, but I think you sure do you know some of your some of the

38:16 Interesting stories as many more. Of course. I had one you shared a lot of interesting stories today. You have many more than that, of course, but is there anything you want to say? There's a couple of minutes left. Well, I do want to say that about the publishing company that we had a real publishing company in the old-fashioned sense. I mean, it would have been nice to make money and all that but book publishing like maybe book selling is probably one of the least sensible ways to make a living thing, you know, right, but we didn't a great job. We had a great reputation and we went on for 40 years.

39:04 And I think will always be remembered as long as there were people to remember. Her number is that we did terrific books will be reprinted old walks. We found many many new Authors and we always had quality in Algood to attend a status in the literary sense. And thanks for your mother. Probably one of the greatest editors who ever lived and I and I don't say that lightly, I mean International reputation, absolutely absolutely. So that's that's my and you called me in for the publishing company. I dare you to do better if any of the books are still in print Chicago.

40:04 Okay. Well, I guess that's about it then. Okay. I'll thank you. Thank you for having me.