Jose Riera and Davi Kallman

00:00 But we are recording go ahead and start with introductions Jose. My name is I'm 51 years old. I'm calling in from Pullman Washington. I'm currently a doctoral student at Washington State University, and I'll be chatting today with David Kalman who is not only a fellow doctor student at Washington State University. She's been a wonderful mentor and guide in my studies and my life at Washington State University in Pullman General. So I'm blessed to be here today. Thank you.

00:42 Thanks, Jose. My name is Davi. Kallman. I'm 33 years old today is Saturday, July 11th, 2020. I live in Pullman Washington. And I'm also as Jose was saying a doctoral student in the College of communication. I graduate this fall and my relationship to Jose is I consider him a good friends and then he is my mentee.

01:08 All right, and we'll just jump right into the interview Jose. I'm so first of all, I want to say I'm so honored that you asked me to to interview you today cuz I feel that we have a special connection. As soon as we met. It was just a special bond between us and what you know, when we first spoke and we first had an opportunity to talk, you know, what really struck me is, you know how different you are than the traditional students of being an access advisor that really kind of, you know, seeing your perspectives and hearing all your stories of where you're from. So I want I want to start with that. I want to start about, you know, you're not from the US. Do you know, you're not from Pullman Washington you are from Puerto Rico. So talk to me about you know, your life and Puerto Rico, you know, what was it like for you?

01:58 Thank you again. Before agreeing to be.

02:02 I will be today and it's an honor for me to be discussing with you about our lives and our shared experiences to go back to your question. I I grew up in what I thought it was a very small place Puerto. Rico is only a hundred miles long and 35 miles wide and it's an island and you know what happens to be a US possession but it has a culture that is very complex. And I know it it brings in a lot of different races. It has Spanish received predominant language with a lot of US influence. So I grew up being feeling like like Hispanic and culture but being an American citizen and then not really being treated as an American citizen regardless of my looks so it's ironic that I would end up being in Pullman, Washington.

03:02 Which is the population of 33,000 Pre-K for like fifteen hundred now and it is by far the smallest place I've ever lived to live in it in the United States live in several places. I've lived in Chicago live in Orlando. I've lived in in New York and live in Jersey California and feeling in a growing up in a small island and then being here in a small place. It's it it's quite ironic. So having said that though, it's it's a very welcoming society as far as you know, what I felt as far as being looked at and not being judged as a Puerto Rican or being accepted as somebody with a diverse culture and even though it's a fairly homogeneous culture. I still feel very much at home and my welcome at WSU has been it's been a challenge because of of my own personal and academic issues, but it's only

04:02 A challenge as far as acclimated myself to to this environment, you know and you bring up some really good points Jose that

04:14 Especially being some challenges and when you and I first met, you know me working at the access center, you know, you came out and really talk to me about a lot of the challenges and the difficulties that you faced and we had conversations about this before. You know, how your life was not necessarily where it is now is not where you thought you would be, you know years ago. So if you feel comfortable, can you talk to me about you know where you thought you were going to be at this point in your life and how you knows something in your life that impacted you had that has led you to where you are now.

04:52 Yes. Well, thank you. That's a very insightful question. I would say that you know, I've made my share of mistakes and I have a lot of regrets and in some of the decisions that I made some of the experiences that I I put myself in but I've learned right and one of the that the biggest things I've learned is that I'm not necessarily in control of my future. You know, we have a saying in Spanish that says that I think English is similar to in-person plans and God laughs so we have we have the saying it in Spanish success as a longer a prop on a dios dispone and in my case, my life was pretty much planned for me as far as you know what it was expected for me to do as far as the career of financial.

05:52 Services in particular where I was supposed to go when when I was supposed to go. I had it all planned out. I have to finish High School be at the top of my class get into a grade undergraduate University, which I did I ended up attending Georgetown University get three or five years of work experience. I ended up working at Procter & Gamble us a brand manager get into a solid MBA program my went to the Wharton School of Business and then me no life should take care of itself. You know, you will have a corporate office will have your your convenience has and for the most part it was that way and and in all done things really came on bundle for me. You know, I'd I think once you you get to that point that everything was planned and you see that that it isn't what you want. I always had that I always felt that this is I didn't resonate with what I was doing and that I was doing things to please others and not necessarily to do what I was called upon to do on this.

06:52 And

06:55 And thanks became difficult. I think some bungled one side. You know, I died. I started straying I let you know my marriage. I started falling prey to my addictions and I think things as s, you know came to a real crashing halt of Swords when I found myself

07:20 You know among other things in in a in a situation that I just I wasn't happy with my life and five years ago. I ended up being hospitalized because of being a danger to myself and during that hospitalization. We're always in the deepest pain in my life and not knowing where to turn to when and just feeling I have let down myself and in my family and my my kids and they did a fairly horrific try to joke me out of my depression at the hospital which ended up causing permanent damage.

08:06 They they call it euphemistically they call it electroconvulsive therapy. But those of us in the hospital Ward would have all their names including electroshock and the whole premise behind behind it was that they would pump electricity into your brain and somehow try to jerry-rig it so that it would reset but that that's all going to be setting process erased permanently. A lot of my memories a lot of my cognitive capacity. I still struggle with remembering things and processing things with people and events and imagined in my case. I have two daughters that are almost 20 years old and and they talked to me from afar cuz I don't have them with me nowadays, but they talk to me about thanks in the childhood that I try to connect but I cannot remember and it's it's

09:06 It is very hard. Right? So you talked about having to recreate yourself. Well, that's that's that's it. I have to recreate myself. Not only from who I was and what I did and the Damage I did and I hope the good things that I did into creating something now. We're my life literally started a new after after I left the hospital, you know, and that was you know, I was I was in the hospital for six months and then rehab and all that and

09:36 Then trying to find my way I'm being told that I wouldn't be able to do anything except perhaps being a hotel room attendant or be a garden or both which I did and I'm proud that I was able to do that. But I also felt that I have something else to do and and that I was cold on for a higher higher purpose and

09:58 I think are my interactions with you or proof of that nino. The fact that I was able to get out of I was in a haunted just a year-and-a-half ago at this point. I was turning beds and a Marriott Hotel in in Pleasanton, California and I was watering plants and and a wonderful place called Alden Lane plant nursery in Livermore, California. And those were all good things and I was told by doctors. I wasn't even going to be able to do that and you know fast forward 6 months. I was accepted to a doctoral program where they think they sell beyond the fact that you know, I'm I'm not just a

10:39 A concoction of different

10:44 Curriculum pieces would rather on individual and individual that is that is the decides to do some change and decides to help others and decides to first and foremost reciprocate some of the the help and support on a yacht and I will me to get out of the doldrums and and possibly the worst places in life.

11:05 Jose when you tell that story and I've heard the story before every time you told me it's just

11:13 How amazing not that you just persevered but that you rebuilt who you are and to the person that you want to be you got an a second chance and you really have taken advantage of that second chance, you know, you have taken full control of your life and I've been so proud to see how you have progressed. And you know, I really want to talk about I'm going to brag about you for a little bit then I'll let you brag about yourself. But you know when you talk about how you know, not from being going from not being able to remember anything to having cognitive damage, which I understand, you know, sometimes when we talk there is there's points where you know, there's a delay or I have to repeat myself and you know, that's when I really understand the severity of what you went through in that hospital, but

12:04 When you you are a superstar student, there is no doubt about it the the amount of research that you produce the involvement that you're involved with at the University as a whole but also the amount of scholarships that you get I have never seen any student get more scholarships than you in my life. And I've been working, you know in the college atmosphere for over 10 years and you are 100% deserving of it. But you know going from having people tell you that you can't do anything that you will only be a gardener or a hotel attendant for your whole life and then going to your get it you're averaging about a scholarship a week at this point. So how does that make you feel when when people are telling you that you can't do anything that you won't amount to anything and then the success of your currently getting, you know proves them wrong and you know prove yourself wrong.

13:03 Well, I'm humbled that you would say that that we particularly somebody else accomplished as yourself and you know that I don't think we have enough time for me to outline all the accomplishments that I've been witness said that you've accomplished yourself and I'll try to pattern my own Student Activities based on the track record that you've laid in front of me.

13:28 I do know what I think at this juncture in my life. And after what I've been through it's no longer about me. And in the sense that yeah. Yeah. I know. It's on me as far as I have to to pull my weight, but when you look at where I was and it was a point in time that I listen to my own family didn't visit me and my aunt in the hospital if it was something of a stigma for an idea and I don't blame this early my parents for that. But you know that the fact that I was there was not seeing as a socially acceptable thing. It ain't no to recognize that you have a mentally ill child and that maybe just maybe there's something in the past that you did might have

14:17 Might have put you in that situation is it's very uncomfortable for anybody. I don't want to be in that position. And so but I was I was rescued by people who are not my immediate family. I was rescued by a lot of strangers, you know weather is in in in a

14:37 Church setting and I thought I was rescued by folks from Crosswinds Church in Livermore despite the fact that I may not necessarily agree with with their beliefs. I was rescued by my closest friends from from my Wharton program. You know people that I've only went to school with in 2 years one of them actually flew in from Singapore to go visit me in the hospital released for good individual. So I say that because now even though it's I have to use my track record and my output academically and community service and in my research, but it's it's also a tribute it's a mantle that I've put on on behalf of this wide community of people that come in and say, you know, what your

15:25 You were you were you were left for for Dad? Really? I mean, do you know people said that that's all you you'll be about you won't be able to amount to much. I mean that it was a good thing for me to be able to water a plant that that was beyond the expectations and being able to do that in people that came in and supported me with housing with food with opportunities with love for the couragement. You know, it's it's over a hundred people that I count on my support network and to me it's it's something for them to feel like it was worth it. You know that it was like hey, you know what? You know, he you know who he is.

16:07 He is and he's a definitely in shambles. But there's something in that little mutt that that is attending for and they would that they will lavish that expectation and I see that that some of them is when I when I'm able to to get some scholarship funding and you saw how important was the summer cuz I had I had I went from not having because of this cold with a pandemic. I was my work opportunity banished in the summer time and then all the sudden between scholarship opportunities that came in and funding the king available and then I had this research opportunities with with Dr. Addison connected with me through some of our joint community service opportunities. It was just a wonderful situation and I I I see that that it lightens people makes them feel good about themselves and make some feel good about you know, that there's there's some sense of justice despite, you know, some of the horrors that that I experienced and and

17:07 Emily in all challenges that we all have to confront and in 2 days isolating X

17:16 I love that you talk about support networks, you know, I've done a lot of research with people with disabilities and one of the quotes that stands out the most that why why this was for my thesis why hang around with the turkeys when you can soar with the Eagles that was a quote from from someone with a traumatic brain injury from might my thesis and it just spoke so well because you talk about these support networks, and they really lift you up, right you're soaring with them and you know without their support networks, you might not be where you are today and you know just

17:57 Let's let's go back a little bit. I think it's very important that you brought up some good issues with in specially when we talk about disability and I think a lot of people might not know the severity of what a traumatic brain injury is and how it can impact someone and I think this leads really well into you know, where I wanted to continue the conversation in terms of yourself out. But can you talk a little bit about what a traumatic brain injury is and how it impacts you currently

18:26 Yes. Well. I think that's why it's a good Hiatus that you called there beside. I do think that most people have this perception of the traumatic brain injuries. Are are are the most Parts physical right? And and you can have in my case. Mine is is a an internal traumatic brain injury was it was caused by precisely this year amount of electricity that was put through certain parts of my brain which included 12 sessions of this electroconvulsive therapy, and you know what?

19:07 There's different tests that you do have that they measure what the cognitive damage was in my case. They need no estimated at a certain expensive test on my ad but that they would there were certain parts of of

19:27 In a my processing in my thinking that I'm I'm operating at a high capacity with my god-given gifts and then there's some some some gaps, you know pretty early as far as it relates to processing abilities some motor skills and and you can see in on through Visual graphs and some mathematical equations where the damages and I remember how it was estimated that if I would had a high probability of developing early-stage dementia because of the damage. So to me that was you know, I know some what some of it is. I can't get rid of I know that, you know this issue with memory short-term memory and long-term memory are going to be with me, but I work on those things. I work go through therapy. I work through it for my own exercises including doing some some word puzzles and and looking at photographs.

20:27 That X tends to regenerate things but it's something that's there with me and and

20:36 It's it's a serious sometimes even though visually you may not see the impact. It is a serious as as having had a physical traumatic brain injury, you know, because there's not the visual cue but the damage is there as if I had I had had if I had had it so it's it is sometimes a little bit challenging and you've seen that yourself meme. I'm entering school. There's some professors that I have to request some special time and they will push back soon. Will I don't see I don't see where the damage is. I don't see a disability and you have a say and it's it's it's a very uncomfortable situation cuz it's a discussion that you shouldn't necessarily be having and I think the intent is good. Not a professor is trying to be complimentary but there they don't really understand and I'm sometimes I don't want to be in a situation where you have to explain.

21:36 Somebody saying Hey, listen, this is what happened. This is part of my past because it does by us their assessment of you in some subtle ways. Not necessarily over ways, but subtle ways and weld he's different or we can wait we have to exclude him and I don't want that. I mean, I don't want to be excluded. I don't necessarily want to be given special treatment, but I do require certain accommodations just to level of the field particularly in in a very challenging program. Like the one said you and I are pursuing

22:08 And Jose, I love that you talk about you know, this this invisible, you know disability cuz ultimately that's what you have is what I have. I'm having a learning disability in you with a t t i is that we have what is referred to as invisible disabilities, but they are still very much there and you know, we noticed them other people might not notice them all the time, but there's a lot of stigma surrounding invisible disabilities and I think you know, I may be speaking for you, but I think that's part of one reason you're such a strong advocate for other people with disabilities, but you're also such a strong self Advocate and you know how to fight for yourself and fight for the accommodations that you need. So, can you talk a little bit about your your advocacy for other people with disabilities in your

22:58 Yeah, well listen work. We're all in this together and in some of these situations with the black lives matter and you know how we address the depend on if you don't think that this brings to sharetea manatee in a more to the Forefront. Then you're paying way too much attention to the media and not paying attention to what's happening in real life and in SO2 me anything that I see that is unfair like I'm in a member one thing and you and I talked about it, you know, I remember when ESPN at the beginning of of Of Mice school year last year. They came in on on campus and took over all the disability parking spots in part their trucks there because they wanted to broadcast is Big Pac-12 game and they didn't give any second thought will you know, they there

23:58 25 million dollars to the university for coverage, you know, they can take over this parking spaces. I'd like I said, no that's not going to fly. You know. I type I happen to be blessed in that regard that I don't require physical accommodation, but I made some some you know, immediately sent them some notices to the newspaper and you know, you you was a senior member there at the access center you took action against what was blatant disregard of of rice for people. I think I did the same also with with the Mighty B. I I was involved in a class-action lawsuit against the manufacturer of the equipment wear.

24:39 You know, I was unable to to benefit from from lien resolution, but it was the first time and the only time that the case involving damage caused by by this electric e c t by electroconvulsive therapy actually made it to the federal courts and it opened the opportunities for a lot of other people's were frowned upon or they were discarded with Bladen thinks, you know, just hospital that that said well we weren't forced to take records or we just will there their they're crazy. Do you know you don't text her record their medicated whatever their tail when they tell you that their memories are gone there. You shouldn't believe them will know that was real that is real. I live that I live there with some of those individuals for for 4 months of my life, you know, and I remember hearing that in and the listen to the stories and so not just saying well I walked away and I happen to be I guess one of the lucky ones to survive that

25:39 Life besides I was in rooms with some of my fellow, you know, TPI victims that came out of those treatments and they were lobotomized if people didn't know where they were. They don't know what they couldn't even they couldn't even testify cuz they didn't have anything to say. I stood up and then it all at I think it's on only my duty to do so, but I think it's also a way for me to balance out the karma of sorts in the sense of hey you happen to have been able to get through that crack. What are you going to do? Right you know it and I think that's why why do that I do something. So my researches is meant only to get my myself back into some sort of a career but it's also in an area where I can create direct impact not only on people who have

26:39 Gone through the same situation that I did, you know one and you know that for my research in in linguistic applications to help individuals who have communication disorders be able to speak more, you know, pronounce more efficiently and learn other languages. It's it's for them to also have a future, you know, I'll be so if we're tied to the way I've been improve myself and I can bring others with me. That's that's really the only way of repaying for what I've benefited and I think that's my calling at this juncture.

27:17 I I couldn't agree with you more when when you talk to me and when we first met and you're telling me your story and like man, this guy has something to say and he has something to give back and you constantly give back to not only our office the access center but the university and your story inspires others and normalizes disability and it makes people feel that you can do anything that you set your mind to with a disability. You don't have to be held back and I think that's why your story and who you are so important in and why it needs to be heard. And so I need that that wasn't a question. That's just me saying how awesome you are, but it's your pretty fantastic and I I just can't brag enough about you. And so maybe I'll you know a little bit from the disability conversation cuz I know that there's some to really important people in your life, very important people that really are your world and it's your daughters, and I know that you know you

28:17 Always sharing pictures of them and always, you know talking about them and they're just beautiful your pride and joy, so talk to me about your daughters.

28:25 Yeah, that's that's a that's always a difficult situation because it really is.

28:36 1/8

28:39 It's hard for me to put myself in their shoes, you know, and and

28:45 I don't think I would have gone out of my my dark recesses of life if it hadn't been because of them even in the worst moments. I I just now was it kept me going as far as

29:04 Having an opportunity to to reconnect and let him know that the

29:12 You know that I know how much they suffer, you know, they saw me they had to experience the pain of

29:20 Having to endure divorce they have to endure not knowing what was happening with their dad not being able to see their dad and some cases. I wasn't even allowed to see my my girls Puerto Rico. It's a it's a it's a criminal offense if you were behind in your child support and I after I lost my my welson in my ability to keep myself during the market crash of 2008 some 2009. I was behind in my child support and I was not allowed to see my daughter's cuz I could have gone to

30:03 To jail, so it was many years of my life that I was unable to see them unless somebody brought them to see them for me to see them in there. So they grew up there. They're both one is 20 the other ones 17, they grew up in an environment where they they might have perceive me as being on a diet dad that abandoned them that that there was some flight at that there was not well it was big behaving erratically and then after I was hospitalized and how does a teenager make sense of that? How does a teenager son make sense of a you know, my dad's in a mental institution my dad's not well, you know, my dad is different, you know, am I going to end up that way and these past five years has been has been a big challenge.

30:58 Try to do that and more so when they know to some degree that I just don't remember in some cases. I don't remember the birth of my youngest daughter cuz it was erased release treatment. I don't have recollection. I have I have to sometimes ask them to provide me and help me fill in the gaps. Is it is that type of so situation from trying to reconstruct my own life as a reconstruct my experiences with them and as I always try to tell him how much they did I love them, but I am unable to do that, you know because of the physical distance, I think one thing that was maybe a very powerful and poignant was precisely the fact that my daughter goes to WSU. My oldest daughter is going to be a junior there. And as you know Debbie that was one of the biggest driving forces for me to go and pursue that said, you know, like I don't have to plan save a doctoral student to becoming an educator. I think I have it in me for sure.

31:58 Do you know to be a good teacher but I never it was in like like whoa, wait a second. He went from hospital treatment to rehab to being in a working as a housekeeper to then working as a gardener. Yeah. I sue the next step is going to be a PhD student teaching in the college education know but it was definitely a somersault that was triggered in a large degree by the opportunity of being able to reconnect with my oldest daughter who is here and you know, so I once I got accepted I pack my bags and I was Lionel at least before the pandemic I was able to see her know once or twice a week and in school and and that that's all I needed. You know, that's all that's that's my hobby. So now I know it's alright I try to make them proud, you know again, I don't I don't necessarily know how they react to the fact that he he he was able to receive this a location from a

32:58 From an organization of favors individuals with disability that they don't tell them it's I don't know how to read that. I'm sure they're happy and they know that I need the financial support, but I do not necessarily sure. They are necessarily dry with it, even though they're both very passionate and very socially active.

33:18 It's it's it's a work-in-progress and I think will take me the rest of my years to get that that we connection but you know what they're worth it all together and that you just you're so it you're such a beautiful family and if you could say, you know, one thing to them, let's say they're going to watch this. What would you say?

33:44 Well, oh my gosh, that's a very poignant question is Dobby.

33:54 There's so many things I could say and and it would be

34:00 It would be unfair to them and I think to myself just to limit it to a couple of minutes, but I think the most important thing is is that throughout the absent flow of my life and through the ups and downs and through the memories that they may have it made good or bad that I always and I still to this day every day.

34:31 Forest fire

34:34 I wish I could hold your hand right now. Thank you. I think God and I think

34:41 I thank them for being in my life and

34:46 Every night I dream of the so

34:49 Yeah, I do it for the Hamlin.

34:52 I always always be there dad.

34:58 Yeah, I love them. So let's that's all I can say.

35:02 Well, you know from what I see I can you know, you had one of your daughters. I think it was your oldest one. Is it a Natalia was with you when you receive the award and the smile she had on her face in that picture. I don't think I've seen a bigger smile ever so you can you can see how proud they are of you and and the person you chose to become after your what happened to you. And I think that is what's so special.

35:34 So I know that I received some some possible questions I can ask so we'll maybe we'll end on a lighter note. But if so, is there anything that you've always wanted to know about me, but you've never asked.

35:56 I know we're both an open book. So that's probably impossible.

36:02 Well, I've been blessed to to get to know you and your family inside and outside of

36:09 The school environment and like you said, you've always been very open with me and always very caring beyond your your mentorship opportunities. I know that you have such a great relationship with your parents and your mom won the cougar mother of the year award which speaks a lot about her about you and and I don't have that that level of connectivity with my parents and I don't know where the back of Puerto Rico and life and and situations brought us apart of sorts, even though I know there's there's shared love there somewhere I guess.

36:57 In light of the fact that my parents are obviously getting older in age. How how do you break that ice? How do you know we talked about the relationship that I'm trying to reconnect with my daughter's I think there's also

37:11 A sense of the karmic value that I have to make sure I make him ends up not just down in the generation. So I was wondering how you how you do that. How do you keep that level of of?

37:25 Reporting a connectivity with your parents and I've been very very close family. Best piece of advice that I can give is you know, one thing I do is I talked to my mom at least 16 times a day. I don't know if she likes it. I like it and I do realize as your parents get older cuz believe it or not. My parents are actually older parents. My mom had me when she was 34 had my brother at 38 and my dad actually just turned 70 last week. So I get very scared, you know that I will lose them soon. And I and I know that you know, that's not hampering my relationship. It just means I need to step up more and contact them more because I want it. I want to maximize every little piece of of them that I have. So my what I do is I reach out and I I know that you know as people get older their

38:25 They're stuck in their ways and then you're not going to change them. Right? So there's a lot of compromises that we as the younger generation have to make and there's things that my parents say that I'll be like no that's wrong. But it's okay. Yes. You're right that you know, don't don't worry about it because I understand that it's not going to change and that's okay because I love them, you know, no matter what and it's not even big things. That's just like, you know, I heard this on the news that sounds correct in like now, yes. Yeah, that sounds great. And you know just realizing that sometimes you have to have humility and step back and and you know with this generation they've given so much they've done so much that you know, you take care of them and you reach out to them and and that's what I do. I make a lot of the the initial contacts in and I think it's super helpful and I think it it also shows them that they're so valued and I you know, I love my parents more than anything. I would give the world to them if I could.

39:26 And I think that you just need to you need to show that and make them feel that rights by action and how to break that Isis just start calling, you know, even if it's the conversations are awkward at first you just keep doing it until it gets to that point where it feels normal. It feels right and then that relationship will start to build.

39:51 Well, thank you. Yeah, that's good. Advice. Glad. I asked you all good. I'm glad it was helpful.

40:01 And I think is that are we at are the end of our 5 minutes? Yeah, we have about two minutes left though. So however, you are what I kind of use that or if you want to stop, you know, okay, Jose. Let me talk to you about what you've meant to me a little bit. This is how all in the conversation maybe you can talk about. How are men wouldn't the mentorship has meant to you but as a as an access advisor is an educator having a student like you, you know, being a part of your success in your journey really makes my job worth. It makes all the hours that makes a lot of the, you know, the red tape we face at the University a hundred percent worth it because we see students like you changing the lives of not not only us as Educators as advisers, but

41:01 The people that we represent it shows other people that they can do it and it has been such an honor to Mentor you over this past year and I can't wait to see where your journey goes.

41:14 Thank you, Lobby.

41:17 It's a it's good to follow in your footsteps. Like I said earlier and you know, you've got help me get acclimated you help me get to know my in all available support. Kyle has been just fantastic as far as making sure that I was always in a ready to tackle all my challenges in classes some of the personality some of the issues some of the issues which were frankly disclosed more details, and I wanted to to some professors I was you know, perhaps not the best times but then also have shared shared accomplishment side. They do when we when we won that award at the competition that was that was great because it only was it was through the support that I got at their the office and then Meredith linking me up with Howard Hughes and then being able to Trump all the

42:17 The professors that was pretty good, huh?

42:25 I'm I'm I'm happy to taking your advice and I think you've seen how is paid out including some of these chats and some of the applications that we've we've been able to complete and I am so far. I'm I'm going on a hundred percent batting average every time you you you write a recommendation letter for me. That'll be so where am I now?

42:56 All right. Well, I think Courtney I think we were should be good, right?

43:01 I have