Kathleen Conneally and Whit Conneally

00:04 I'm Kathy. Kenneally and I'm 53 and today is Thursday May 6th 2021 and we are recording from Towson, Maryland. And my partner is Whitney Whit connealy and he's my husband.

00:29 Yeah, I'm yeah, I'm 52. I'm much younger than she is.

00:36 And this is our conversation. So I'm going to dive right into it. I'll ask Kathy if a question.

00:49 Is there something you feel is giving you purpose in your life?

00:55 Yes, there's many things that I feel give me purpose in life. I was, I was adopted, so, I always was looking for a place to fit in. And so, I feel like my purpose has been not only to find a place for myself to fit in, but to find a place for other people to fit in.

01:17 So I have done a lot of things to include people or find ways for people to be included including myself. I was a surrogate why surrogate? Yes tell me more about that. I thought I would never be able to give up my own child and some close friends of mine decided that they wanted to have a email a baby and it was a gay couple to men and they were before they went to the adoption route. They were going to ask for a certain, he will be a surrogate and I kept trying to write the email to them and I just couldn't the emails didn't come out right? I kept deleting them and then so I thought I would try writing an email that said yes, I could do that and then I made myself cry writing to eat.

02:17 Since I realized I couldn't do that. I had already had two children of my own. They were 10 years apart because I've had miscarriages and so I was having difficulty going from a ten-year-old back to infant. That was really harder than I thought. As far as being a raising children and getting your household, to work as a family, when there's a ten-year Gap, that was much more difficult than I anticipated. And I'd always thought we'd have three kids and then I thought you had to stop at 2 because I couldn't keep going backwards. So I was sad that I hadn't enjoyed my last pregnancy. I didn't know it was my last pregnancy show up and not have to go back in time and start with diapers. Again, when you know, the next kid got out of diapers, so it worked out really well. And my surrogate sign is

03:17 10 years old now and we all have a good relationship and it's been a really, it's been a really great things that I did.

03:36 Yeah, and you have what you would you would call for children, right of my life. In 2006, when I put in.

03:52 Conceive of having a third baby and I became a surrogate. My, you know, some of my brother was having a kid of his own but his family was actually having problems. And so we were I live in our separate lives for five years and then his family kind of disintegrated and their son who was also born in 2006 needed a place to live because he could no longer live with them. So my nephew came into our house and my nephew became my son. We adopted him this year. So what we, he's been living with us since she was 5. So I like to say, I have a nephew that's like a son and I have a son that's like a nephew, that's how we live. And the two of them get along, great, their great cousins. They really are cousins so they can say that and they have a great time. So that was I was happy to be able to be a mug.

04:52 In all kinds of ways. I was a mother while my first child I had before we were together. So I email we had to step issues and you know the do you know who divorced, kind of issue parenting. We would had that experience and then we had our daughter together. So we had that experience of being a mother and then I had the experience of giving away my surrogate, son. And then I had the experience of adopting a new son. So I'm really happy that I found all these different ways to be a mom and experience both sides of all the different mom, stories. You always knew. You wanted to be a mother. That was the only thing I knew when I was growing up. I didn't know if I would be married. I didn't know if I would have a job. I didn't know about any of that. I didn't think about any of that. I just knew that I want to be a mom. So I feel pretty good. That

05:48 I did Mom and so many different ways to spell Aiden.

05:54 Okay.

05:57 Well for future generations of your family. Listening to this now or there any words of wisdom you would pass on to your for children children and my grandchildren coming.

06:19 How to get to the teenagers.

06:24 Yeah, I would just say to the kids. Well, you know, one thing of surprise me about the teenagers is that and I don't know if every generation says this but it seems like this generation doesn't really want to hear any advice from the old people. I I was so excited to have so much sharing and advice to give the kids and they don't really want it. So I guess one, one piece of advice would be to you. No, listen to old people that are older than you, even if you don't have to agree with them and you don't have to commit anything to them, but just listen to what they say. I mean, I I didn't know where I fit in my whole life. So I listen to everybody and I listen to lots of people. I didn't agree with and I'd nod and smile and just take note of what they said and then that would help me figure out what I didn't want to be. So it was valuable to listen to people that I didn't agree with so that I could know.

07:18 What what direction didn't want to go? And I just wish my kids would do a little bit more of that because I do have a lot to share and I see them struggling, especially our oldest is 27. I see him struggling and I want to help.

07:34 But it's hard cuz he doesn't want to hear it. So.

07:44 Unique questions for me. What would you pass on his wisdom to the kids if they would listen to you?

07:51 Other than Wilson.

07:55 Well.

07:58 A lot of.

08:00 Things I've learned.

08:03 Or that I'm stuck with me the most in more recent because you push me to do a lot.

08:14 Up things, I wouldn't normally do like this interview. So I'm usually try to keep my personal life to myself.

08:25 But I guess something you show me, is that.

08:32 When you, you shouldn't be afraid of something, you aren't sure about or fear the unknown because the one you lean into the fear and anxiety. Usually, I get angry first, when I do something that I don't want to do you lean into it, you'll find

08:55 What you'll find answers and maybe you'll find things. You didn't expect in the unknown that you and you find what you were looking for, and you didn't realize it.

09:08 You're welcome. I could give many examples of things I've done.

09:20 I've been cautious and I've been fearful but I've worked my way through it and on the other side, it's always come out better. My life has gotten better because

09:32 Is that you're going to be afraid of things? You don't know, but that shouldn't stop you from trying and going forward because usually on the other side of something good.

09:52 Try try is like the best word ever. You just have to try and see where it takes you and be open to.

10:03 Email, whatever. And most of the time we've, when you push me to do something, it's to advocate for people who have less than we do. Or maybe don't have the resources that we do like gay rights and trans rights and things like that, where I don't want to talk about my personal life, but I kind of been the spotlight has been put up on me and then afterwards maybe help somebody else down the road.

10:44 Afraid to speak up or try to do something in their life to make a change.

10:52 Yes, I think that, you know.

10:57 Being brave enough to go. First is often with someone else needs to see so they can get to where they need to be.

11:06 And being brave doesn't mean no fear. It means that you're afraid but you do it. Anyway, that's what courage means to me.

11:14 So,

11:16 I think that we've gotten to a really good place in our life by pushing. And when we felt like someone needed help, we need to speak up.

11:29 We've only been enriched by helping.

11:33 So then how would you like to be remembered when we're doing this to Archive things? So how do you want to be remembered? I just want to be remembered as somebody who showed up and tried and

11:50 Spoke her truth and

11:55 Left left pads open for other people and I'll planted seeds or built a foundation that other people can grow on. I just want to be like, you know, part of the team, and I have made my impact in that way.

12:11 To give you know, a platform for other people to even go higher or better do better than I did or whatever, just be free or whatever, they whatever they need. I hope that they can launch it off of something.

12:29 Call trying to provide well, when I

12:37 Think more I like to change that question. I guess it said of how I want to be remembered. It would be when I would like to be remembered because

12:51 At times you like holidays and occasions and when our kids or family doing certain recipes that we used to wear that I could songs to hear on the radio that would remind me of them. We're going places that remind people of me when they are, you know, in that kind of moment. I would like to be remembered. I would like to be remembered often. I guess. It's what I'm trying to say is what I did, but, you know, or how I was acting at the time, but just to be thought of as night, so mostly in a good way, but, you know, I've often

13:40 You should be sought him off and you're always, you're always there. You are a foundation as well because you you do the cooking and you have all kinds of every, one of our kids has a different special food that you met that they love and I do too. And yeah, you always are playing the music and you got your at your always there, your a rock-solid foundation, and I'm so proud to be your partner. I think that you're really great.

14:29 Well, I know you don't like to share your personal life. Can I ask you questions about your personal life or what? Are you trying to avoid talking about you? You can do whatever you want. I'm sure it will be edited out if it's not suitable for radio. There is a couple

14:57 Yeah, it should work. Why don't you talk about that? You're better at remembering things. I can talk about it, but you should start it because it's about your personhood. Well, okay, I have to say, I was born a male and female at birth. That's what I saw that the other day in the magazine afab is, I didn't realize that I was a trans man or good night.

15:41 Words to the way. I was feeling until I was 40 something. I can't remember. So we met when we were in seventh grade. We were 12. Yeah, so I was 12 with glasses and braces and sign female and feeling like a geek each other. Yes, and I had, I was really trying to get out of my life and into the world at age 12, and I had just places to go and head to head to work on my hair and had to work on my makeup and had to work on my luck. And I had to, and when I saw you with your glasses and your braces,

16:30 There was something about you. I do remember, like the second I met you there was something there, but it didn't make sense because I thought you were a girl and I was a girl and you were not a cool head that I wanted to be partying with the heads at that time in the seventies. So I didn't know why I felt a particular feeling when I met you. So I just ignored it down. Whatever we went on to be really good friends. I really enjoyed our friendship for many years and then

17:04 I got a little too wild. I had my wild years. We went to Florida together and I started getting into a lot of drugs and you laughed you laughed when she should have cuz I was no good. I was not a good person to be around that time down there and I came back and Rican Kindle with a boyfriend that I'd had. And so we were thinking about getting married, but we didn't get married but then I got pregnant and then he decided he didn't want me to have that baby. So if I was going to have it, I'd be on my own. So I was on my own having a baby because

17:52 Being adopted and, you know, the first thing I thought when I found out I was pregnant was not. Oh, no. Was I last right? I thought, oh like this is going to be a great new adventure. This is actually kind of funny and

18:05 So I was ready to do it on my own.

18:08 And I think when my son was born, my first son was born, I was by myself and I had to the strong spark of love and I think that's the first time I realized that same feeling I had when I first met, my son was the same feeling I had. When I first met you, I didn't know that that was a thing until I had felt it the second time. And then I could go back and say, wait, reminds me of you and I wrote you a letter and I apologized for everything that I had done and, you know, down in Florida. And I told you that I was going to raise this kid and I was not going to live that way and I was going to be a good mother and

18:48 See if you wanted to try to now we're both back in Maryland. Try to be friends again, if you did open the card and I forget I don't think, I don't think I responded right away.

19:03 Yeah, you don't remember you sent me a card in March and I wrote you a letter in January cuz you said was a Saint Patrick's Day card, but I mean

19:17 I remember looking forward to seeing you again and becoming best friends with you again, because I always wanted to be around you, you know, so this is the opportunity, we can go to the concert. Did we? I don't remember the concert. Alright, well, I don't remember if I want that. Anyway, it was so great to get back together, that October. It was like,

20:03 Everything I've been we have been out of the my state. I have been out of this side, been lived in several other states and met so many other people and had so many other relationships, but getting back with you is just like so right? And so like perfect. Like no one ever understood me the way you understood me and we immediately we're best friends again. Like in one, second was awesome.

20:26 Yeah, and then it became more than that eventually and then we were identified as a lesbian couple still never felt quite right to me. It was the kind of lesbian. That would say my girlfriend lesbian, but I'm not I would always say I just I knew I wanted to be with you, but I just

21:00 One day years years, later. I mean, not until we have had our second had Maya and then, you know,

21:10 I was sitting at a PTA is a rezoning meeting for the elementary schools are going to read District the elementary schools in the neighborhood and I was sitting in a row of seats in the auditorium with a bunch of other moms that I had, you know, gone up through Elementary School with them, their children has. Another mom has two moms that were in elementary school sitting down the road at them and they all have their nails. Done their hair done outfits and purses. And I'm sitting there with none of that and going

21:56 Oh, I think I kind of understand what is going on. And then you pushed me to go to a counselor and pushed me to go to the glccb in Baltimore, with the gay and lesbian Community Center. I thought, I liked being lesbian. I thought you just didn't like me. I thought you were a great lesbian. You just didn't like me and so I was an accountant and we had gotten, I got the glccb is a client. I need a bookkeeper, but I had other clients and I didn't have time to sit at the glccb, every week and enter data, so, I thought I could train you on QuickBooks, and I sent you to the glccb to be my employee and, and do the data entry and that turned out to be a great thing, right? That was just me trying to make a business, but

22:56 You saw the I saw the signs that work for like meetings for Trans in this and that and I kept and I met people who were trans heard people talking about it. Thanks for reminding me that cuz that's why you're so I need you to maybe when I went to the meeting of the same exact is how I'm feeling. They were saying the same things. I was thinking in my head and feeling by myself. They were saying it out loud.

23:37 It all clicked with me and that's when I started to.

23:43 You know, that's when I decided I needed to transition or take the stuff into transitioning.

23:51 Music ten years ago. So I am I feel more and more like myself and more comfortable with myself and I don't have to stop and think about what I'm going to say or how I look or what someone's going out. Someone's going to react to what I say because I am now the most comfortable I've ever been the truest.

24:27 Self that I am right now. It's a lot of fun to be around you and everybody thinks, you know, you're fine and cool. And yes, they do. But it's it's, you know, I saw our kids were 5 and 15. Jason hadn't. Come to live with us yet. Then and forget just, right? Just 15 - 5 when you started transition has five. So his name happens to be Jason and my oldest was Justin, so I do mix those up all the time. So, yeah, so we had only Justin and Maya with us at that time.

25:14 And it just made it made so much sense. Like, it just was immediately like, everybody exhaled and everything and it made sense to think of you is as a man. And at first, it was hard to tell our stories cuz we've known each other for so long. And I would tell my stories and I would say her and she because that's where the same stories. I've been telling since we were twelve years old. And, and then

25:46 Our dog is distracting us, so then, all right.

26:03 Yeah, I had to edit myself a lot. But you kept changing the hell you roll my eyes. When you use the wrong pronoun with people. I know my previous history together, cuz then they'll know we had sleepovers all the time. They like don't tell anybody those stories. I had to like change all my stories, right? But then, you know, you kept becoming more who you were and changing or who you know your look like you're saying you were taking the hormones and you're starting to get the facial hair and you got square base and certain he just looks more like who you were and it just became more like you're outside. Start to match who you've always been. It just started to make more sense. And now I can tell stories about when we were to

27:03 Well, then I say he because it seems weird to say she now, it's so completely flip flop. So that's interesting. But I do think that you always were, you know, my brain, never change and I will always have the same sense of humor.

27:25 Same.

27:27 I wanted to have the same hopes and dreams but in as I got older and was identified, not identifying as who I would have liked to been some of those things were shot down or changed along the way, you know, cuz I couldn't do certain things even though I was thinking of more masculine things anyway, but I wanted you to be a big like a badass which the girl lesbian and do all the things and you didn't want to do it that way.

28:01 You did it your way. And that's what I love about you. Cuz I think that's it. You know, you have you are like the strongest person. I know because you're going to do it your way. You're not going to do it. Even though I have all kinds of my best funny cuz I think you're the strongest person. I know.

28:23 Only each of us could put up with the other one. Yes. I think you're right.

28:31 I think everybody who's, in our family, who does eventually here. This will be shaking their head.

28:45 I'm happy to have you. I'm happy to have each other fine with me too. But I think about it. Sometimes. Do you think that we waited till you were 41? I did the math while we're talkin to your 41 when you came out as trans and it was the same year that your father died and it was, you know, your mother had already been gone for several years and I just wonder sometimes if if that felt like

29:21 Freeing or like a some kind of a freedom that you could come out because you were afraid of disappointing. Your parents. Did you do feel like sometimes maybe that you waited or held things in were frayed because of what they would say.

29:40 I want to say no, I think.

29:45 If?

29:47 You and if you, if you have always been with me and it was going to be you and I was going to end up being.

29:56 What I am now, you know what? I mean? Like, eventually, I, I like to believe my parents would have been okay with everything. Had it played out that they were still still around because my grandparents were okay with it, you know, and my aunts and uncles and everybody takes getting used to, you know, your mom. But

30:26 It was something I didn't have to consider. Yeah, so that made it easier. I didn't have to consider. What is my mom going to think? What? What's my father? Going to think, because they hear it did, make it easier in that sense. But I think I would have still turned out this way if they were around. I just don't know. Like if you would even have asked them to support you, because that's how sometimes I think you hold back because you don't want to impose on someone else.

31:01 And so I think you you would rather suffer yourself. Then ask somebody to accommodate for you and I don't know if that was a thing for you.

31:13 I do that. Yes, but I can only do that for so long.

31:18 Like with anything, I'll hold it in and then one day I won't anymore and everyone will find out that they find out.

31:33 Would you have anything that you wrote down that you want to talk about? This is something I would have never done.

31:46 Because I don't like to share this type of information with people, but you are here, you are pushing me into doing it anyway, so I'm sure I'll be

32:00 Glad about it later cuz that's usually how it works out.

32:05 One thing I wanted more than anything is to have an interesting story and you have given me. The most interesting story. I couldn't even have made it up. It's like far because she did all my dreams and expectations of life. Thank you. Thank you.

32:22 I guess I should say that I love you on for the record.