Tony Di Sante and Stephanie Jaworski

00:10 My name is Stephanie Jaworski. I'm 53 years old today is December 11th. 2009 Lower Manhattan and my partner. This is my husband.

00:26 My name is Tony desanti may just 55 today's date is December 11th, 2009. We are in lower Manhattan, and I'm with my wife Stephanie.

00:44 Well Stephanie, yes.

00:48 Can you tell me what happened in the early part of the morning of September 11th that start with the when you first got up?

00:54 When I first got up, I was working at a fashion show. So I Was preparing getting on my things ready to go and then head up to Midtown to the trampoline park for the fashion show.

01:11 And then when did you first discovered that there was something wrong?

01:16 My first discovered if you cool as there was several people from CNN that were interviewing the designers backstage and they began to run out the door. So there was a lot of chaos and hectic activity going on cuz suddenly they were there and then they left but I didn't know what happened. I just they left right? Can you remember any specific things that people were saying at that moment?

01:43 Oh, it's that time. I know because we were very insulated because we were in the tents at Bryant Park so there was no access to any TV. So no one no one knew anything really, right did you or anybody else hear any any unusual noises or sounds that sort of alerted you or that you've perhaps that's a matter of fact we were in the tents and we heard plane and someone said that plane seems to be flying quite low.

02:18 I said it might crash, did say that. Yeah, and then when did you first discover that the plane that hit the World Trade Center?

02:28 I think I first I might have her first heard from you when when you came up to the tents and you said the plane had hit the World Trade Center. I think I might have been you but I can't remember because after a while people started calling like friends and to listen to TV. So there was a live report going on about this happened that happened this information. I mean no one knew anything and they would calling you to let their parents in Texas who were watching TV and things were coming out and you didn't know whether or not there were rumors are what right? We thought there was anything specific along those lines.

03:16 They were saying it was it was a private was a private plane and it was some misguided pilot. I don't think anyone really initially thought it was anyting.

03:32 Worried about I mean to be like a big accident, let me know what you think that it was dangerous to realize that respect. You know, I don't think people understand the severity of it at that time, right? Okay, then is the morning progressed. What happened?

03:47 Well, I think that's first of all the phones you can get all the phones good locked and you couldn't make any phone calls. So no one knew anything and I believe that I went out to your car to try to to get the ironing board with weed in front. And then you said that you had heard that there had been playing hit hit and so I got to move information from you. But still it didn't didn't hit anything. Anybody didn't dawn on me that severity of it.

04:21 And then what happened?

04:23 Time went on in the second plane hit now. I mean one one playing you can maybe explain but when you hit when two planes within a short. Of time, then the whole picture changes, right, but I think those people were beginning to get the loan information for the thing about it was that because we were at the tents and not have any access. Everyone was hearing it by calling someone else and who was watching TV. So it was always as rumors were flying and no one knew anything really right, but there wasn't a sense of but then because of that they really wasn't the sense of panic for a while people didn't really the fashion shows were going on and no one really took didn't really understand. I think it was really happening, but they were the fashion shows discontinued.

05:14 Finally they were but there was two of them. They went on without before the philae, you know, we had to vacate and we vacated quickly. What did they tell you? They just get out when I left? I didn't wait for the clothes or anything cuz I just left right? Yeah. Yeah. What do you mean you didn't wait for the clothes the designers clothes that wasn't a priority and I just need to leave quickly. And then where did you go?

05:59 I went to get you a car. We will start to proceed to get a hold of things into the car and to try to drive home right now. The fashion shows are where exactly.

06:11 They're at 40th Street between 5th and 6th and 42nd. Right? So we started to drive away right side driver. What? Yes, we did remember that you had the trunk of the back of your car open and your radio very loud and people were surrounding the car people who are the Subway and then going to work so they had heard about it. And then so your car became like a little information booth each time. I would come out there to talk to you before more people circling the car listening, you know, a lot of people heard about it first from you and your radio in your car, right? The hatchback hatchback was open. Yes, and people were

07:04 Yes, sir. I knew you were on what street it off 47 down Fifth Avenue on 5th Avenue. And then what happened?

07:21 Well, we were like north of in the Empire State Building and physical The Fifth Avenue was clogged was really jam-packed. Lots of people here and someone in another car and yells. I think that building is going to go down and then we

07:42 Like a puff of smoke and the second time he was like until they came down right in front of our eyes, which sure spooked me. I'm sure it's pooped you to yes. Yes, and then would we do?

07:58 What we proceeded down Fifth Avenue, but of course, but the police is set up those roadblocks by that into so it was a matter of trying to maneuver back to you know, these feelings really live which is not directly involved with the World Trade Center, but it's close and it was downtown is closed. So I'm never the streets we couldn't get through right but we did make it back to our apartment we did which is on which street on 6th Street and then what was the rest of the day like

08:36 Well the rest of day because because I was installed the fashion shows. There was all the people that work for me at that time. You're trying to figure out what was going on cuz we had other shows scheduled and no one knew anything and it's over there was a friend of the family members are trying to get through you have family my family and they couldn't get through cuz it's all of the lines were jammed. Right? So I think it was a minute-by-minute kind of trying to get to talk to people try to connect with people and they couldn't get through we couldn't get through a lot of confusion a lot of confusion confusion.

09:19 And then

09:21 The immediate days afterward. What did we do? Well, first of all in our neighborhood 14th and Below you had to show that you lived there and I'm so we had to show a little while licensing and anything phone the proof that we live there will be no. We haven't we went like in the Union Square area truck screen come down there. So like the restaurants couldn't get any deliveries, you know, cuz I remember that it also the gentleman around the corner that had the liquor store. He told me that because of September 11th for 3 months and getting deliveries, so he's been on a bit this because he couldn't because they wouldn't allow email the restaurant that they had to close cuz they couldn't get delivered after while we had to show a license of something that you lived in the neighborhood.

10:21 Write out and in the days immediately following you said we went up to Union Square to remember what was up there?

10:28 I think it was just you know that feeling of just wandering around not knowing what was going on. And I remember all those posters of all the people that are missing and those also there's like a lot of visual she'll Candlelight vigils and just kind of want to connect with people because you just let me look like a ghost town, you know, it sounds so. Yeah, I mean that you can see the Jets that were flying around for trolling and stuff. It just was it was Eerie Silence of the new deities, you know what was going on, but not that many so it was dessel in a lot of ways.

11:22 And did you lose anybody directly connected to you in the World Trade Center disaster? No, I did not lose any of the people that you know that died where there anybody that was indirectly connected to you.

11:42 I do someone sissy someone who works for me at the fashion shows her sisters died.

11:51 Anybody else?

11:54 No, no. No, I don't know. Okay, and the weeks and months after turn perhaps up to the first year or so. How do you feel that? It directed your it affected your life rather.

12:15 And in what various ways and first of all, let's talk about your business.

12:22 Oh my business my goodness. Someone it affect my business tremendously. Everything was canceled that week obviously and I mean if you did a few a little something afterwards, but my all that business was gone and I think six months later a lot of companies in NY do anything as well. So the business was the first year was very

12:58 It was really cut down really cut down and how did it affect you or your outlook on life?

13:08 00

13:11 Wasn't that makes you value, you know each day more. Take things for granted.

13:23 Just being a little more grateful for you know what you have because it could be gone in an instant and right right Senators visiting and stuff it before and you know anyone that could have been down there in the morning in the area. So

13:48 You never do, you know, you never know.

13:52 And

13:55 So yeah change is that I think a couple of days after maybe the day after it happened. I was in yoga class, and I remember of

14:09 Get off work and I'll do the very yoga poses and then you know that when you come down like this, I mean visualize was all the people jumping off plane. So that was very upsetting upsetting. Yeah. Did you ever have any dreams or nightmares about it?

14:28 I don't believe I did no. No, I didn't. Have you ever had a nightmare.

14:37 Well, maybe it's time to switch and you can interview me.

14:43 Well, I guess I just asked you a question so I know it's okay, maybe one time but it wasn't recurring and I don't remember very clearly now.

14:56 So what was it like when you were driving up to the tents and you heard on the radio?

15:05 That morning. We got up together. You went up to the 10th by yourself and I went over to my little office and took care of a little bit of business and got into my car and started to head up to you. The idea was I was going to bring you a clothing steamer and pick something up. I think maybe an ironing my car over at the Hyatt and work. They're serving lunch. Well on the way up there was a

15:33 The DJ had said it's a sad day for New York a plaintiff sit that has hit the world trade tower. And I thought that was that was terrible. But like everybody else. I thought it was an accident. I proceeded West and when I got the Sixth Avenue, I started to I turned right and started to head Uptown by this time. I believe the second plane hit hit and once the second plane hit in that instant along with the entire rest of the world. I realize that the first plane was no accident.

16:12 And I realize the gravity of the situation on the way up on 6th Avenue and there used to be a clear view. If you look straight down 6th Avenue there be a clear view of both World Trade towers and they did take a moment to glance back and I could see them with the smoke billowing out. So I started to proceed Uptown and not knowing whether or not I could I could get you or and once if I picked you up to to get you back to our neighborhood. I remember seeing some friends that I knew Bruce and that other french guy that used to work with him standing on the corner looking down 6th Avenue as I pass by I didn't stop to say anything to them because I was trying to get up to the Bryant Park there where you were and it I turned across 40th Street and a course like you said, nobody was quite sure what was going on and so forth. You had come out of the tents to give me the the

17:12 Lemur, and I said get in the car. I'm going to bring you back. And you said I don't know if they're canceling the shows and I said I said they are canceling the shows. We're at War because

17:27 I knew at that point.

17:29 That that we were under attack it took you a little while ago as you said to figure out what was going on and I had open my hatchback. So people could hear the radio clearly and so forth.

17:42 And finally, of course everything was cancelled you did start to come back and get into the car and we started to move move down Fifth Avenue that I didn't seem to grasp the severity of it. It was understandable because you weren't fully informed I could I could see that you know, that's why it was so I got you into the car and my concern is that we weren't going to be able to get downtown toward where we live cuz we are heading toward it. Everybody else is heading away from it. Right when I thought we'd be stopped by police. I thought maybe they would think that the clothing steamer in the back of the car with a bomb or something. And yes, and so we started to head downtown and

18:33 We were just north of the Empire State Building which of course was being evacuated. So 5th Avenue is closed at 34th Street and it was right about that time as I recall. It was a man standing on the street a young black man, and he pointed to the tower saying that building is coming down and that was the moment when we saw world trade tower number to collapse before our eyes then we moved along 14th Street. I'm sorry 34th Street. And then of course, we must have taken 2nd Avenue down or whatever heading back to our neighborhood and we made it safely to our neighborhood. And of course, you know, you remember these ironic things there was plenty of parking on the street because there was nobody else there and then the rest of the day and now fortunately for me on the way over I had picked up my cell phone and I called my mother and told her don't worry.

19:33 Stephanie and I are both fine because after that there was no cell phone service as far as we could tell right hand and to tell you the truth. The rest of the day to me is not real specific about what happened. I remember little mundane things like speaking to the landlord about some little problem that seems so ridiculous at that time.

19:58 But after that the day after

20:02 September 12th

20:05 I remember one wandering around the neighborhood and looking at the people and you know what New York. You don't really know your neighbors much but at that time in our neighborhood, which is East Village where there's so many people that always visit looking at all these people saying these people I know are my neighbors. Otherwise, you don't know who they are because there was no nobody could get in to the to the area was cordoned off unless you live there, you know, and also I can remember we have a pretty big Arabic population and I remember seeing some, you know, some rather conservative Arabic looking ladies and you know family whatever and much to my surprise. I remember feeling no anger toward them but feeling

20:54 More like these are my neighbors first because they are you know, and

21:03 And that was the immediate. I remember going up to Union Square and all the pictures of missing people and the the votive lights and all that the vigil. Yes, and then somebody on 7th Street apparently had gotten killed because they had a little vigil out in front of that house for a little while there.

21:23 Oh, yes. I remember that. Yes between first and second right handle so that yeah the crazy thing about about this whole thing is that I've been a tour guide the city of New York since 98 and shortly after it a company called me shortly after the disaster. That is an 2002 January company called New York City vacation packages called me and said what I like to bring people to the World Trade Center site because they had clients at wanted to go. Well, I was totally shocked and appalled by the idea, but it's true. I accepted my business is going to be falling off as well and there, you know, I had to I had to keep going what was it like to have to

22:13 I was relive The Experience each time. You've probably the hardest part because people would always ask me what it what were you doing? What you do? And it was hard for me to explain that it's very difficult for me to try and relive this every single week and several times a week, you know, and I do feel a little frustrated that I I wouldn't give them that you know for the time with two weeks later. We went to that we went down south. Yes. We went to Hilton Head South Carolina after the fashion shows and I don't remember sitting in in Outdoor Cafe sitting in that Cafe. It's in Hilton Head from the World Trade Center buy us a drink.

23:12 Why was the little flag on the table so far removed from it was it was really likes for real because it's a beautiful sunny day there and people like we're talking about it, but we had like if we had lived through it, so it was different to next time. I went down to World Trade Center after the disaster was actually Tuesday September 18th. Exactly one week after and I was doing my regular tour which amazingly hadn't been cancelled. These were mostly foreigners. But apparently they would have cancelled had they been able to exit the country which they couldn't fly out at the time and I can remember getting off the subway and not wanting to look at the World Trade Center and they're like, where was the World Trade?

24:12 You know what, you're looking down Fulton Street and you can see the remnants of the of the tower Still Standing. I guess it was over there and I'll just let's not talk about it. We went over to South Street Seaport or whatever. Yeah, you know, it is a strong City from people that don't live here about what happened. Where is it?

24:37 I can remember waking up the day after and just thinking wow, the World Trade Center is gone, you know and the kind of I think the overriding emotion that I had on the actual day of September 11th, and actually the next subsequent days cuz I felt useless I feel like there's nothing I could do. I went to donate blood at Beth Israel hospital and they said we don't need it and I just felt there's nothing I can do. I know and in some ways the fact that that I was brought into doing these tours around the World Trade Center, which has been such an incredible experience of of of bringing people around that. I feel that it at least in some way of helping people as you know, showing them this and giving them the facts, you know, and so they're not just wandering around clueless, you know.

25:34 So that I feel to some degree is at least worth something to somebody have going on and you bringing people down there has your in a feeling which point of view changed.

25:50 Has my point of view changed? Well, yes, like most New Yorkers. I'm extremely frustrated that the rebuilding has been taking so long that it's extremely frustrating and very disheartening and you know, we would like to I would like to have shown the world that we can bounce back from this very very strongly. Well, it's still strong but it's a long it's taking too long. That's the problem but I did have one dream about World Trade Center since I go there so often and night since I'm constantly talking about how they're putting it back together what they're doing in the process and so forth and so on I can remember a very Vivid dream that I was

26:39 Bringing people there and it was the big opening of the new World Trade Center in keeping up with the developments on lack of development and I had an inkling of that dream when they opened up number 7 World Trade Center, which is the only one that is that has been reopened. I went there April by special invitation before it actually opened in 2006 and was an excellent experience. Yes around have the questions they ask

27:13 Change are they still at the same question? Well, they questions that they ask are often about myself and I find it hard to deal with. So what I do is I give him a canned answer. Where were you on September 11th? Well, I live about two miles from the World Trade Center site. I never got any closer in those two miles away, but we were close enough to see the second Tower collapse firsthand from a safe distance, and that's usually that's what I say and that usually satisfies them.

27:44 Yes.

27:46 Why is Julian of a wife who can Durant or otherwise, I could start to tell them like I did in this interview something that would take 20 minutes or 30 minutes or half an hour or 40 minutes. And the the tour is not about me. This is about me but the tour is not about me. The tour is about my city.

28:10 That's why you been keeping up with the developments and yes, but whether or not that's what they ask about. That's what they get because I concentrate on the recovery. Yes. I do you recovery and rebuilding so when you go when you go down the hill, they want three d's death disaster and destruction definition. Well, yes, I get the feeling they would like a little more detail about you know about the terror in the horror and so forth my feeling is that while you've you've seen that on TV and I know you can imagine how bad it was, you know and everything you say about it in that respect is a nun.

29:10 Statement

29:12 How was it? I was terrified that doesn't cover it. I was sad doesn't do it.

29:21 I was angry.

29:24 Doesn't cover it and everything you say about it is an understatement and I'll tell you one more thing.

29:31 I was giving a tour once and there was a we are getting started, you know, a little girl was on. It's about eight years old little Chinese girl. Cute. And before we get started there any questions she goes. Well, where were you that day? And I said what I usually say about living two miles away and so forth and so on and she looks up just fine like Cheetos you were lucky and I thought to myself. That that's an understatement to

30:05 Yeah you so how has

30:10 I've been trying to

30:13 Believe that every single time you down there and not being able to.

30:18 Espresso love. Yes. I believe the psychological term is called avoidance.

30:26 Okay, what about the st. Paul's Chapel and then cuz he was mentioned about recovery and let's get it cuz I know that was used, you know during you know, we'll Trade Centers.

30:40 I'm going to visit dad. What is how has that been? Well over time things are mitigated, you know and you know, the more I do it the easier it is for me to to go through things like that. You know, I think perhaps people are a little frustrated because I am the kind of person that doesn't normally show much emotion, but I'm sorry, you know, I want you to show more emotion sometimes. Yes, we won't forget we won't comment on hang on. I'll tell you one of the best I ever had was hired specially by some people who were Urban developers are so forget the term something like that and I started to tell him about about Saint Paul's Chapel little bit in and

31:40 The guy who was conducting forces, you know, these are Urban Development cycle. I know I'm getting to that and then when I got around the other side of the place and I started talking about Larry Silverstein in the all the insurance involved in the politicking in that the whole huge thing. They were if worked out very well, it's one of the things that I'm most interested in. This is the Olympics of insurance the Olympics of urban disaster being rebuilt and so forth.

32:11 What's so it sounds like all your reading up on the development of the interest you well for this group. When you give a tour of New York if you read about Alexander Hamilton and you can learn things about it, that's fine. But when you're doing something like this, that is everyday developing everyday. I have to read the the newspaper articles every day. I have to keep abreast of what's going on and especially more. So in the years past not a quite as much today because unfortunately it's not moving forward very fast, but back then of course, do you think that this is like less importance placed on it now as like as a time goes on and there's time goes on of course.

32:56 There was the Katrina disaster in this country. They were the tsunami in other countries and so forth their fin huge horrible disasters, but this one of course has that special quality of a disaster to it because it was caused intently by some fellow human beings. Whereas the other ones were natural disasters, right? But did you do anything special to celebrate 911 or pay homage to it or anything aside from wearing? My little remember 9/11 T-shirt If there is no work in the fashion industry, as you know, I work with you and during the Fashion Week I run around and help to take care of you delivering things and so forth and so on but back in the past the business was off and I would have September 11th free the first one we went together we walked

33:56 Write down from our apartment down to the World Trade Center site because I wanted to see how long it would have taken had. I been at the World Trade Center on that day to walk back up to our place right after the first year the fashion industry. Do you know did not do any shows on the September 11th, right? But since then of course, it's right. It's another day right? It's the 11th and you know, right.

34:24 Yes now, it's called Patriot Day.

34:37 Do you have any official memory about that day or something special about a Taurus guy that something that I asked you and make you feel?

34:52 Pussy table

34:55 Happy

34:56 Something that makes me feel positive and happy about

35:07 If somebody ask me something something positive about it. Well, of course I am now this is not firsthand experience. But I enjoy telling people about the the rescue efforts by one individual by the name of Richard rescorla who rescued 2,700 people by virtue of the fact that he had been conducting fire drills in the World Trade Center for his company Morgan Stanley Dean Witter and he managed to get everybody out except for 13 and that that was very very impressive and very positive. Unfortunately. He did lose his life as well.

35:51 Right

35:54 But

35:56 I can just remember, you know being a New York City tour guide in the in the weeks after the the anger that I felt that there were some.

36:07 Some

36:09 At the time the rest maybe five or six thousand people that died. It's now just under 3,000 at that. They that they know of but just thinking there and you know, somebody comes to my city.

36:21 And kill saw 5000 my fellow citizens.

36:26 HealthNet was extremely needless to say I was very angry about that. Yes, but and I can remember when they asked me to do is to start doing tours. You don't bring people to the World Trade Center and I you know, like I say It was kind of a Paul to said you can just bring them to the World Trade Center. You can show them where the the viewing platform is. They had a viewing platform at that time and then you can bring them to the South Street Seaport. They can get the tickets to the viewing platform which was the process and then you can let them go and I was I was appalled by the idea because I get all might my city is more than just a hole in the ground and I said if we're going to bring people down there, I want to at least include Wall Street and so forth and I know it was it was very very very strange because until I got that call in January 2002. I for some reason was thinking about giving up being a tour guide.

37:26 And I am not sure why but I think it's like if you were a model or an actor and you got a big scar on your face.

37:36 You wouldn't want to do it any more, you know.

37:40 Right

37:41 But my my faith turn out to be different.

37:47 The opportunity came your way in.

37:50 And somewhere that's why I took it for economic reasons.

37:53 Right, but ultimately it's turned out much different. Yes. I'm you know, I'm probably the door. It's been there the most because of this company is hired me at all. And I'm just so you live through it week-by-week and nearby year. You've been there watching over, you know, quite wonderful watching the development of watching and come along and also frustrating in the fact that it's not coming along fast enough, but

38:27 Sobeit

38:33 Thank you, Tony for letting us know how you feel about September 11th, and I was affect you and also the experiences you've had going down there every week day after day week after week year after year, and thank you Stephanie. Thank you for loving me and thank you for being there.

38:58 And I love you, too. I love you, too.