Alan Mars and Jenny Pachucki

00:01 My name is Jenny Petrucci. I'm 29 years old today is June 11th, 2010 with us fully square a recording booth in New York City. And I know Alan through my work at the 911 Memorial Museum.

00:14 And that my name is Alan Mars. I'm 59 years old. It's June 11th, 2010 worth Foley square and I know I know from the did 9/11 Memorial so Ellen, I just wanted to start by asking you a little bit about your background. Where did you grow up? When were you born? I was born in Brooklyn in 1951 lived there until I was married there in the house and my children there and then moved out to New Jersey in 1979 and been there ever since they're here today to talk about your experiences in your time working in the World Trade Center and experiences and 93 and 9:11. And can you tell me when you started work at the World Trade Center 1987 started working for what was then Dean Witter and the 1793. We would Dean Witter actually the date of the 93 bombing is when we went public.

01:14 Been in there ever since what kind of work do you do for them? I'm in the IT department. I've done a number of different jobs from a project manager and managing Market data services that type of thing. What did you think about? Did you enjoy working at the World Trade Center? Yeah. It was really a it was a nice building. I had a great view from the 69th floor. So originally had a few of Uptown and then then original it don't know what changed and I had a few of downtown to the harbor and everything is really nice and just a you know, what is nice building the Conchords downstairs if the weather was bad you can go downstairs was just a nice environment. Do you say which building you worked at building 2, so it's free flea. What are your memories of the 1993 bombing remember being in my my managers office getting ready to go to lunch and have my hand against the side of the of the window and we heard

02:14 Big Bang, it sounded like loud thunder and then we'll send the whole building Shook and my boss was like wow, that's that sounds like a pretty bad Thunder and that wasn't Thunder and a week after she continued working and then we had heard that there was a well first we heard there was a Transformer that blew up and then they started saying that the that there was a bomb and they started evacuating people and it was number of pregnant women on our floor. So we kind of cuddle with them myself in a couple of guys and we were waiting for some Rescue Team to come up to make sure they get down safely and after I don't know what how how long make maybe an hour or so a fireman came walking up and sit start walking to cut the power. So we proceeded to walk down to 69 Flores with the in dock stairwell with flashlights at the firemen had given us. So I was wondering probably one of the last people to leave the building that day because everybody else was leaving earlier. We were hoping that you know, they send to an elevator so we wouldn't

03:14 What were the conditions in the stairwell like complete darkness if I had gone from the 69 fluid to the 67th floor and when the door closed behind me because no windows or anything. I was totally disoriented. It was very difficult, you know just had to go in a field steps and field of the handrails and everything when we started walking down. They had all the doorways open, you know going down so it was a little bit of light in there. But like I said if firemen had given us some lights and some flashlights. So basically we were shining down on the stairs. So they're the pregnant women were able to you know to see what they were doing. So do you remember after after you came back to work and sort of business is normal resumed did the company take any additional safety measures, you know, well we had regular fire drills that was that was a normal.

04:14 With us every month or two. We know we always had fire drills never had an evacuation drill, but you know, we we knew where the stairwells were in that type of thing. I don't know that the company took anything extra for 93. I know security downstairs got a little tighter, you know before that you were able to just walk into the elevator now they put up these turnstiles. We had to swipe your your ID card, but it was interesting because if I took your ID card, I could have swiped it. I'm not sure how good it was, but at least it was a little bit of it to Tarrant. Are you worried about returning to work? I'm not didn't bother me at all. Like I wasn't nervous about being in the building even through through 911. I ain't never never thought of that happening again. So maybe it's appropriate to flash forward to September 11th 2001. Were you still with the same company in the same building at the same building steam floor?

05:08 How did the morning start for you? Well. The journal I wrote started out the started out as like any other day. I got up I got dressed and I went to work it was it was a beautiful day was a clear day. I remember the bus coming over here on the turnpike and just saying how clear the sky was it was known that you're not a cloud in the sky. Into work. I didn't want something that I never do that day. And I don't know why but I wish came to work and sneakers and I would change as soon as I got in that they I didn't don't know why I'm up may have gotten sidetracked or something. But I remember that afterwards because I wash my shoes obviously, but it probably helped me get down a lot quicker and sneakers then and then and shoes but it's just a regular normal day people coming into work and then then we heard the big Bank.

05:58 And the building Shook and all of a sudden I saw a paper because I was on the south side of the south building. I swore paper that kind of engulf the round the building and then it's more paper, but it was on fire. So will you like to know what happened and everybody kind of went to the to the north side of the building to see what happened and we saw this big gaping hole in them. They are one. What did you think it was wild of the early reports said that either helicopter is small plane hit the building and I was like one of those that that holds awful big was the hole that the out of the hole that the plane came in. So it was not as big and it was just too big for a helicopter or plane looking down at The Concourse. You only saw a building debris didn't see anything that you don't like the helicopter or plane hit it and it fell down and it was nothing like that was just pieces of building there. So we just started vacuuming evacuating everybody is a

06:58 Point just from experience from 93 from experience when we had the blackout in the building and we just canvas the floor just to get people out and give or take it was probably about 20. Give me a Whizzer Lee was before 9 and you know, some people always came in late. I was an early person. So I'm not as many people as normal and you know, it was Tuesday usual early people myself check for alley and Tim Sheridan and a couple other people and me and we would be just told everybody just get your stuff and go even though the announcements on the the loudspeaker was that the problem is with one World Trade Center. You're safe can go back to your desk.

07:47 So you didn't listen to that not at that point not at that point. I knew we kind of got everybody out. We've been a few of us had gone to the north side of the building just to see what was going on. And then then it kind of started now I get emotional.

08:05 We saw people.

08:08 And just hanging out on the side of the building and then we saw things falling and we realized that it was people and not not a nice sight to see them fall all the way down and if the two or three of them

08:26 If we just know we realized that this is not not a good situation. So we in a few of us just went the back to our deaths to get our stuff and go home or get out. I should say I had gotten my my jacket in my FHA case and the phone rang by my secretary's desk and I answered in which one of the former Executives and he said he's when he was watching it on TV, and I said, we're all okay the problems in the other building. I don't know what's going on with getting out and and with that the plane hit building 2.

08:58 And having never been in an earthquake it's the only thing I can describe everything shook the building rock that's what the building at that point that one memory I can remember of I think the building is falling it just for a second and then it stopped but I remember the the ceiling tiles came down I saw the walls cracking open up and my manager Jack had come running out of his office this other guy Tim came from his office and we just started running a jack kind of led the led the chase we knew whether whether the doors were in the stairwell right near our office when we went to that door and it was jams we couldn't couldn't get through it so we went back around to the center door and there was all burning debris in the center hallway so we we couldn't get to that door so fortunately we went to the door on the north side of the building and it was open and we we just started our descent down

09:59 I didn't see anybody behind me. I was one of the last ones it was five of us. Actually at the time I found out later that was there was two other guys who climbed over the debris and went to the door which we couldn't get open because they thought that was the right door to go through and actually the two of them Push the door open them out of going down that stairwell but we were in stairwell light in stairwell a and we just started our descent with a lot of other people evacuating to most people that evacuated before and plus it wasn't a lot of people there. So I don't remember at least for a number for seeing anybody else I did when they take a step back when when the first building got hit I call my wife because I know if she hears she went through 93 and

10:45 I wanted to call and let her know I was all right, and I was leaving.

10:50 And then, you know, we start our descent down and and all the way down like my page was going off my wife and kids were paging me and my cell phone just new circuits were busy and couldn't get through we soar Rick Ross call who is one of the people lost the new Rick pretty well to sterilize Diaz with him. He was just telling people to keep moving keep moving. You got to get them got to get it out to us. No don't stop and when your we said you got to get out of here. I'll get out of when everybody else is out and I was down. It was around the tenth floor. I remember there was a telephone company central office there and I said, I'm going to get off at this floor because I know of any phone's going to wear besides. I need to call my wife because she you know, she saw the plane hit the building I wouldn't think so. I actually went out I found the phone it worked. I was able to get through to her. Tell her I was okay and I'll be out of the building shortly.

11:50 And I hung up and one of the other guys Glen O'Leary followed me actually and I didn't even realize he was behind me and he says I wasn't letting you go alone just in case, you know, so that was he was my hero told me then went back in the stairwell and continued and by that time that we saw more people we saw some people caring people who have been injured, you know, the bloody clothes and whatnot. We got down to The Concourse and then actually after running down 69 floors had to take walk up an escalator woke me up in an Escalade. It's bad enough, but walking up after that my legs feel like rubber and they evacuated us through borders, which was Alpha by West I buy Church Street.

12:34 And you know the cops just kept pushing us across the street and you have toes just just go and I I knew we had a contingency side up at 75 Varick Street. So we were kind of just heading up there any I'm not knowing what was going on. So it was a bunch of us, you know, you're so a lot of people outside and fortunately we had a place to go the people who didn't want people who stood there and, you know, eventually watch the building for Lonnie that got trapped in it or kill it whatever but we we were fortunate in having so leave the area. So we headed up Broadway and when I got to Canal Street. I have tried I went into a store and I forgot if I can use the phone and he told me the phone wasn't working me my he was talking on it.

13:23 So we had headed up, you know to go to Barrack Street. So where I was on Broadway and and Canal Street and I found the phone and I was able to call my wife and tell her it's far away and and I'm okay and I'm going to work so I can head into Varick Street and flashy right after I call my wife when I get to the corner. I saw everybody looking up and we heard a rumbling and I I watch building to full.

13:55 And everybody was just like in shock basis with the building tilt a little and then just just calm down. But you know, you didn't see how much of it fell because we're so far away, you know, you don't feel the Top Pot when I got into Barrack Street and my manager was there when he met me and he said our buildings gone and I like what are you crazy? What he's talking about me. It was a TV there any such luck and mm you only show One Tower and I said, no, it's just the angle angles know it's gone and I was telling the truth. You're out of your mind. I just didn't believe him even though I just sore so I'm thinking she wasn't shocked or whatever and then we started working. We started getting the company back up and running again until turning on computers attorney circuits on I made a few phone calls. I called my brother to let him know why but I was okay and

14:48 Jimmy first time I ever heard my brother cry when he heard my voice because he didn't know if I was alive at that at that point.

14:58 And then I just had to work, you know, so then some idiot decided to put a truck in front of our building and leave it running and leave it. So they moved us now moved us to the back part of the building thinking there may have been some explosives in there until you know, the cops came and at that point they basically just told us no go home leave. So people will leaving the building of Fortune. I was only three for us to walk down this time and we were kind of congregating outside not knowing what to do where to go anytime I take my son had worked up town. I was able to get in touch with him and he would he was leaving. So I said, okay, I'll I'll walk North along the West Side Highway and I'll meet you at some point. We'll keep trying to hook up and was probably somewhere in the between around 30th Street. We hooked up and get to see him.

15:55 I was going to lose him, but he may have lost me so so it was my son and myself and and co-worker that I was also live in charity Frank Giordano and we kind of headed over to to take the ferry across just going home and was just a long line of people and I have no idea how long anything till after that time was really just strange and I would I never looked at my watch. I never knew what time it was so we won't end up waiting on this long line eventually taking the ferry in down to Hoboken. I guess it was for

16:34 Wherever the ferry goes over there and you know seeing no Towers thinks the city no smoking and

16:45 Once we get over there, we we took a bus down to Hoboken was going to get the train to come home and let my son who actually lived in Jersey City at the time. He was he headed back home and my coworker Frank went his way and I waited for the next train to New York to bring me bring me home and I sat on the train. Unfortunately the seat I was in face back. So the whole trip that I saw the city I saw the the city burning was smoking and I was just heading home.

17:19 I called everybody I knew on that trip home. Just tell him I was okay. The train went into Belmar. I had called a friend of mine beside. I always took the bus and so he came to pick me up and I don't know what time the first rank I didn't but my friend met me at the train station and we hugged and it was good to see you as my best friend and we went home and end it was a number of my family members are in friends to cremate my son. Steven came out came running after the hug me.

17:58 He is going to leave and he was going to school in Jersey. So I'm I hadn't seen him yet and a my wife and my friends and

18:08 I knew I was in shock because everybody says sit down and eat something that hadn't eaten all day and had pizza was just like my favorite food and I just didn't want anything just got a lot of phone calls and she stopped answering the phone but there's a lot of messages I listen to some of them and then you can hear some of them were very tentative like they would nervous to to know if I was I was there or not you no call me back. Hope you're okay that type of thing. So, well, you know, I had gotten back to a few people but then I guess everybody started leaving in that must have been about 10 at night at that point.

18:51 Ends of my wife said some you have any idea what happened?

18:57 And I said no and I sat down in the first thing I saw on the TV was a plane flying into my building.

19:07 And it look like it when it's on my floor and I should be that that's how I kept saying. I should be good.

19:15 My wife confident me and should know you're not near your life and well.

19:21 Anthem it was it was very difficult and as much as I didn't want to watch that's all I can watch this. All Oates on TV. I couldn't sleep every time I close my eyes. I saw a planes hitting buildings in them. It was it was it was very difficult time at the the next morning around 5. I was in the shower getting ready to go to work and I was like where you going and I should have I have to go into work just no stay home. I said this I can't I have to be I have to keep busy if I stay home. We'll all see you is everything that's on TV. I need to keep busy and I wound up we had a contingency side Inn in Jersey City. So I wound up going there and started started rebuilding the company everybody who walked in you hug them because you were happy to see them even people you didn't like your hug.

20:21 Anda

20:23 843 days, you know Wednesday Thursday Friday. I went to work. I had almost no sleep because I couldn't sleep and I finally crashed come here Friday night into Saturday and I slept a long time after that the night cuz my body just gave out but then it was just trying to get get your life back together again, and you know just

20:48 Trying to rebuild a company rebuild your life and then try to make things normal.

20:54 Which I knew they would never be again.

20:57 When you look back on the day and you think about you know, like you said I should have been dead and you're lucky that you lived do do think about the twist of fate or do you think do we play the day and think about the things that you did that made ended up making a difference in saving your life a tribute to things to saving my life one with my snake. Is it got me down the stairs? We calculated it took us back 20 minutes to goes down 69th flour for so I was really quick. The other thing is in the in the buildings at that. I companies been in since we always as soon as we move in they they have a fire drill on the show us where the stairwells are any of the evacuation and everything and switch to the newer buildings. They show us how wide the stairwells are and how this is wide enough of people to go down and firemen to come up and one of the things I said to one of the guys was if the World Trade Center was like that. I may be dead because I had my hands on the handrails on both sides and my feet were just flying down the stairs.

21:57 So that got me out of the building and it only felt like 20 minutes after we got out and so if you know the difference of going down fast, you know as opposed to walking down even though there was nobody in the stairwell. It could have made the difference. We had no idea what was going on. I mean, we're in the stairwell we heard, you know go back to your desk because they never shut the recording all of the other the problems with with one World Trade, but we just we just kept heading down and like I said, it's it was it was very fast to send for you. So we just just we're going fireman start to go up. I never saw any Farm in my building will though somebody told me they did I don't recall seeing fireman and I've seen pictures and and I think because they were concentrating on building one piece building one got hit first and it wasn't that long if they're building to weld is immediately after filling to got hit that we started going down. So the fireman

22:57 I have been in that stairwell or may not have gotten a chance to get up to where I was at that point. I don't I don't remember seeing any fireman and I mean like in in 93 by the time I started going down because it was a number that was afterwards you sore mems yourself. I mean so policeman. There's a lot of people we on the stairwell, but here if it was just you just us going down.

23:20 Did you or do you think about you know, why me?

23:26 I want Mandy Moore.

23:30 I went I went through that a lot for a for a number of years. Why did I get out? You know, why did nothing happen to me in 93? Why did I get out this time? I went when I get home that night one of my friends called and said you like a cat got nine lives and I said, well, I'm no cat and I hope it's not three strikes you're out because I already got two against me. So well, yeah, I went through that. I was too many people also lies to me people. I know lost their lives and you know, why? Why did I get away? You know, I sometimes think now might both my son's got married. I have two beautiful granddaughters will two beautiful granddaughters to two beautiful daughter-in-law has a grandson and and my life has, you know, things have happened just so well in my life and and maybe that's my calling, you know, and maybe that's why I got out to to see

24:31 But yeah, I went through the first couple years was was very difficult that you feel that you live your life differently because of that day. No, absolutely here. I I changed immediately. I I I was always somebody to prepare for the future and I said I in an instant the future could be gone and you know, I started kind of trying to live for for the day and it's it took a took a little while to realize. Well, you know, I got to be somewhere in the middle because if a if I only live for today and the future comes ime have any, you know any money or any means to live so

25:13 But the fact that off a little bit and I do do things differently. I I I look at life differently. I try to spend as much time with my in my family and my kids my grandkids has as much as possible because they're just so important than and you, you know, you're only around for so long and you got to make the best of it.

25:36 Having survived one of the most historically significant events. I mean, hopefully In Our Lifetime, what is it about your experience either on the day or the the time that you've spent reconciling afterwards? What do you think is important for your great-great-grandchildren to know or you know visitors to the museum to know?

26:00 That's an interesting question. It's I think one of the big problems is, you know, we don't know our enemies, you know, you know, I work with a number of Muslim people. I I don't hate the Muslims as a people, you know, and then I mean one of the guys I work with now is a muslim with a with a note Urban the whole thing and then I you know, we're very friendly, you know, I I know some people resent them for that I am not that way, you know, so I think one of the problems is that the guy sitting next to you that he doesn't have to look like a Muslim eat, you know, I mean, we had that, you know, Oklahoma City happened and it was one of our own so you just got to be cautious and and you know aware of what's going on in and look for changes and you know,

26:53 You just got to be aware of everything that's going on. You can't be blessed. Are they so about things I mean, I I think the city is is great and in and it's it's come back and then people are going going there their ways and doing what they have to do. But you know, they they did it to us in 93 and you know, it took us eight years to to get lazy and it happened again and it's you can't you know, you got to be on going and I know it's it's probably not the best way to live but you know, you don't want people to die and it's it's going to happen again, if we if we let it happen again. We just have to be secure and in what goes on.

27:33 Having having lived through a you know, such a traumatic, you know emergency situation. Is there anything that like any part of your personality or the way that you react to the situation that surprised you about yourself. Did you learn anything about yourself?

27:52 I don't know why I mean, you know, I think the company prepared us for for fire drills Amy. They always did that and when we were evacuated in 93, you know, we had four wardens who was supposed to direct people and do searches and everything. I was not one of them, but I was a manager and had people working for me and I felt responsible for them and you know having having gone through drills and everything we know what to do and I and we did it, you know, and then it in the 9/11 the same thing, you know, the five people, you know myself in the other four who went down the stairs together. We're all managers and we we basically we we managed and we went and we checked all the in the rooms we make sure everybody was gone. So I don't know that it shocked me I was prepared for it. I was prepared for if something happened to to react, you know when to do what has to be done.

28:52 Do you honor the anniversaries in a special way Yes actually first couple years to build the first year. I went to work after that for a few years. I I just I wasn't there we try to do things, you know where the family can get together this year. It's a Saturday. So will you know we will definitely get together with you know with with my kids and grandkids one of the things I I did for definitely the first couple years I watched TV and and you know that the whole Memorial and everything in the end it was upsetting but I I was always drawn to it and I don't know why are you up to this day if something about 9/11 is is on TV, I will still watch it for for a while. I was almost obsessed with it. I I was talked about it. So people which everybody said well, that's a good thing that you talk as I know some people who never talked about it, but on the other hand I was talking I was talking to everybody. I was talking to strangers about it, you know.

29:52 And I would just tell him about what happened. And what are the things? You know, I had going for Christian Counseling because of nightmares and what not and I sat down one day with the counselor and told the whole story is kind of like what I did today, but in in in detail, you know, basically make my whole Journal, you know, and I felt good after that. It was the first time I had told one person the whole story from beginning to end and that includes my wife and kids. They you know, they had they have copy of my journal, you know, they don't ask me about it. So they they know what I went through and and what they want through, you know, my wife went through a terrific time, you know, not knowing, you know, two times with me and end my kids went through it and if so, just stop time.

30:46 Are you I was there anything that you notice about yourself now, are you a skittish about loud noises nervous about being in tall buildings. The highest I've been up was I think it was like 30 something floors and it made me a little nervous that was about a year after we passed by the the ground xero sight on the way in today and and I looked at my building building one and and I said it's going to be something it's 1776 feet high and and I I said, I don't know if I'll be able to go that high again. I'm at I'm on the 18th floor now, I'm kind of okay with that. I don't know how high I can get up for a long time if I heard loud noises.

31:29 I I was very jumpy I think depending on how bad it is. Sometimes I still do get a little nervous depends on the time of year planes bothered me for a long time. I was I was obsessed with watching where planes went and I always enjoyed watching planes fly any of my bus passes the airport at Newark Airport every day and I would watch him take off and land and now it was where they going, you know, and I took it took awhile for me to get past that mean. I'm okay with it. Now. I can be nice. I still look at planes just make sure they going in the right direction and that has buildings. But you know what? I'm not, you know, what's it's been awhile. So things have got better. I have gotten better. You know, the first couple years were really tough. Did you go to how many does your company lose on that day? 13 people. Did you got all the funerals with our company memorial service? We had a number of Memorial Services. I wish I went to I went to one of the funerals.

32:29 Memorial to the guys who lost world war we would consider them family. They were electricians and I went to one of the memorials the other I want him. His wife was just totally in denial and didn't want to have anything so she just as far as I know never never had anything.

32:50 And I had gone to some other memorials local by my house just general 9/11 memorials. So but yeah, I just we actually just went to 21 Neal official for for one of the people we lost.

33:05 You said earlier that you can until things started to get back to normal. Not that they ever will be normal. What can you talk about that a little bit more?

33:15 I woke up at 9:11.

33:18 Changed everything. You know, we we we don't talk about you know before I was married after I was married to before I had kids eating and now everything is based on before September 11th after September 11th, and everything is gauged on that. Our life is gate. I mean a lot has happened to me good since 9/11 and I know I can send my kids got married. I have three beautiful grandchildren, you know, that's a good thing but we still use that as a tire gauge actually might my oldest son got engaged the week before 9/11 and and the week after we had like a little engagement party. So I was kind of not the best person to have time but it's it's every everything is gauged today around that date and I'm sure history books will reflect that too because it's just things have changed, you know, the way we look at things that mean you go to the airport take off your shoes go through you know, and I've actually I actually had one of those searches.

34:18 Watch Ice to me for going through my bag and I said don't apologize. I'd rather you do this, you know Ben and I didn't even say that, you know, I was affected by it didn't anyway, but I said, I'd rather I rather you bother me and not find anything then then let somebody going and something happens. You know, I'm even the first time I flew out I used to love to fly and now I'll still fly but I'm a little little nervous about it. You know why I look who's getting on the plane. I look who's sitting near me and you know, just you or more you have to be more observant of of what's around, you know, even standing on line in the airport. If you know you look at everybody. I'm always amazed that they pick little old ladies to strip-search, but the that. Just you know, I don't know giving you the opportunity to say everything you came prepared to say or tell every aspect of your story that you think it's appropriate for, you know your family to know down the line. Is there anything that you know, I

35:18 My wife said to me this morning. Do you have any idea what you're going to say? And I said I really didn't I didn't know if I was going to sit here and tell my whole story. I mean I can probably go on for 4 hours of getting into details of what happened that day. You know, I I I gave you a good overview. I mean it was a lot of details, you know, like in writing my journal myself and then when I co-workers Tim Sheridan, we would talk all the time and he would call me up one day and gold women shoes and I went. Oh my God, you're right and I remembered every Landing had women shoes on it because the women with taking off their high heel shoes because they couldn't run down now why they left them on the landing. That's another story. I don't know but little things like that that I added to my journal, you know, so my journal has a lot of detail on it and and I have two versions of it. It's a personal one where I got more personal and then there's the one that I let you know that I let people read

36:18 You know, I think you know, it was a horrific day changed my life changed the life of everybody in this country. A lot of good came out of it. I I think I got closer with my wife and my kids I look at things differently. I want to be with them or not that I didn't before just is that little extra that that you really want now that you just never know you just never know and you know, I mean night between 1999 and 2003. I lost my mother my father my sister along with this. So it's a lot of things happened in my life. And I just you have to have a different Outlook. You have to live life to the fullest and just, you know be aware of your surroundings and hope this never happens again, because you know, if we if we let it it will

37:11 I think that's a great place to stop. Thank you so much.

37:17 I didn't ask.