Jackie Wren and Keri Foster

Recorded July 27, 2013 Archived July 27, 2013 41:53 minutes
0:00 / 0:00
Id: lmn003070


Jackie (30) talks to her friend Keri (33) about her experiences in the military, being underestimated because she is a feminine woman, and deploying to Afghanistan.

Subject Log / Time Code

Jackie talks about joining the National Guard
Jackie talks about going to Fort Lewis. Her drill instructor yelled, "Why are you smiling?!"
Jackie talks about camping with her battle buddy and a skunk that got in her bag.
J talks about platoon mottos
J talks about being a positive person- people don't expect her to be serious. She remembers volunteering to carry a heavy radio for the first kilometer of a trip.
J talks about Fort Bliss, TX.
J talks about moving to Atlanta and being in the National Guard.
J talks about making "mandatory fun." She remembers going to Afghanistan and enjoying working there.
J talks about moving to Syracuse after Afghanistan. She talks about meeting Keri.
J talks about being underestimated for being an upbeat woman. She remembers her boss told her she would make a "good christian wife" but not a soldier. She has proven him wrong.


  • Jackie Wren
  • Keri Foster

Venue / Recording Kit

Partnership Type



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00:02 My name is Keri Foster. I am 33 years old today is July 27th, 2013. Where in New York City and my relationship to Jackie is that we're friends. My name is Jackie Ren and I am 30 years old. Today's date is July 27th, and we're in New York City and we are friends.

00:29 No, Jackie, how did you decide to join the military?

00:36 I was in the my sophomore year of college and I really had no idea how I was going to pay for that semester. So we was Thanksgiving break and I was on the phone with my two friends and it was like we are going to join the National Guard. We we all three of us because I'm in charge of things like that. And when we got back to school that next week, we join the military and I got credit for the the other two, so

01:07 What kind of credit o I got promotion points? Yes. I came in as a PFC because I joined and then I made my other two friends join, but I I really join and specifically so I can pay for that next semester. So it was a very long-term solution to a very short-term problem. But here I am 10 years later still in are your two friends still in the military now, but they are one of them went to Iraq and serve there and worked for a while in the military after school who actually neither of them were able to graduate on time, so I thought it was interesting but

01:52 My one friend, she also went back to work overseas as a civilian for me. You know, I've steadily been in the military the whole time but I think it also provided different avenues for the friends of my life because everyone almost everyone else rhymes with in college was in the National Guard or reserves is very very interesting Dynamics. Okay, so I am a civilian civilian civilians. So I never understand what the difference would like. I know that there is the Marines and they are as the Army. There's a Navy there's Marine Corps is Marine and navy. There's the Air Force right? Yes. So what is the National Guard so that everyone know no guard and the Army National Guard and basically we're as as a person in uniform I report directly to the present.

02:52 In most situations if I'm in the National Guard of a particular State I report directly to the governor first. So when you hear about natural disasters that are localized to Estates and the governor calls, but so that's why but we also can be called up by federal as well. But we report to the governor first. Okay. So if you're in the National Guard then you're just in the National Guard you're not in like one of the bigger branches, right? You are either in the army or the Air Force. So last year when I went to Afghanistan war uniform. I'll say the same thing. So I'm in the Army. So I've when I was in the Army as of the National Guard when I was nine me as a person and as a reservist at all says US Army

03:43 I'm glad you understand that.

03:45 Okay, okay, but right now.

03:49 Well when you are in Syracuse, which is where we met, you're not in the National Guard, they're technically like that's not I'm at it's not the point of your service there. Right right eye.

04:07 I am a reservist now. So I'm no longer the National Guard at all. I'm in the reserves. So similar to the National Guard. I just drill one weekend a month, but I'm not according to the governor. I'm just Federal. Okay, but I do that assignment in Queens New York here. So when I leave on the weekends, I come to clean and then I'm wearing my uniform and I'm doing that but I work as a civilian for the Army. Okay, it's complicated. Okay Armijo taking you or being in the National Guard right? Cuz I've been in all three of the National Guard and a reservist Okay, so

04:54 So it's taking me a lots of places some for a little bit of time and some for a longer time. So the first place I ever got to go with Fort Knox Kentucky. I've been to Fort Lewis Washington State. How long were you in Kentucky just 28 days and it's weird that I remember that you later at the time. It was like a severe account down at the same time. It was just it was an eye-opening experience cuz I was did you go right after college during college? I was supposed to go to basic training. This is going to be another story that might be able to compute think I'd never went to basic training instead because I was going to miss some school that I did not want to miss and the day that I was supposed to leave for basic training was when I decided I wasn't going to basic training and while I was waiting to get picked up to take back home. So you made that decision.

05:51 Okay. That was a bad bad Future Soldier what partially because I didn't completely understand what I signed up for the time to minute for that particular training. So I decided no I couldn't miss a next semester and I was kind of told that I wasn't going to miss that next semester and I didn't believe them so.

06:11 My degrees in theater and I had a big show coming up that fall and I was going to miss it cuz I wrote it but that's anyway while I waited to get picked up to take to get to take him back home. Now was the summer after my sophomore year. I joined a December. I was supposed to go to basic me of Summer. I went while I waited to get picked up and take him back to my house cuz I decided I was going to go in January Miss a different semester. There is a guy he was the ROTC liaison. He doesn't know. Why don't you join ROTC and be an officer and you don't have to go to basic training and I was like, oh, okay and silly me like some people grow up knowing all about the military because they had like family or whatever that something you always aspired to do. I was still in the state of mind like I had to pay for school. I have to be right back. I didn't know being officer was so meant by was just like a sure. Let's do that. So about two months later.

07:06 I wasn't Fort Knox in a uniform and drill sergeant still not as harsh as basic training drill sergeants, like yelling at me and they like why are you smiling? And you know, I'm always well, I don't know what you mean. That's right. It's what I do, but the interesting thing about that time there was all of us were like there were a couple people who are from Junior Military Academy, so they like, you know,

07:34 Thought they knew what they were talking about, but they really didn't and then they are the rest of us who were like fresh off of the street. Right? And we are all going to be officers, but we really really throw me. I had no idea what that meant. So it was both our recruiting event / a training event. So we spent 28 days doing all of the things that you would do in like a 9-week basic training in a condensed them at a time. But with some really cool things to we got to do I camped out in the woods for the first time and this is like, I don't know. I'm just going down the rabbit hole, but the first at a camp out I had a battle buddy. So it was me and another girl and it's not a tent in two ponchos that are like snaps together and tied to trees with are you in the Poncho's when their snap together to help their dead tired like a tent over you it was raining that was pouring raining. I never thought about that before we were online.

08:34 Think about a yoga mat, but made out of foam in like a pseudo blanket underneath this league raincoat material that snap together, right? So there was that and then we have been told earlier that day that they were skunks earlier to go home that day you chose the wrong day to go home, but I believe in their stunts all over the place. I might get school but earlier that day I smoke I got into my bag so I super tired my back that night because I had always mask.

09:08 Oh my gosh.

09:13 That stressful, you know, how I do well with animal so that night and how did you know you smelled it like so apparently on Military places animals know what like our food looks like what are bags would like and they know where to find it. So he it like God doesn't have to be careful one time. I was driving down the street with my friend. My friend was driving and I was a family of deer ahead of us and I locked the door. But listen, I just sent her last week a picture of a big bear. He was in someone's driveway and he opened the car door. He was up on his back two legs and he opened the car door and went in and was like just handling his business. Yeah, you need to understand that animals are intelligent. Okay. So the deer I feel like I did a good thing.

10:13 Enjoy that day. I agree my bags and then we went away to do whatever so that night when I was sleeping I get super tight cuz I only got so many snacks left. So I'd like real African serval cat my back was like wrapped up like there's no way anything was getting into it. So this is like to scare you. So we're sleeping at night. It's raining. I'm stressed out by my battle buddy was like come from California or something. She had never seen a skunk. We wake up and we hear wrestling in the hell would you know, this is like the size of like to yoga mats. That's how much space we're dealing with here. There was a skunk trying to get in my bag in our hoot and she's like, what is it? I'm going to get the skunk. She couldn't get it out of here. Like you can't that's what the stack of bills for you. So we just had to like be very still and like lettuce.

11:13 That's not what you got to do. What you had to do was run. You can run you can always run know we were laying down and I reject this story. Okay, so you were in Kentucky for 28 days. I'm very stressed out.

11:35 Okay. See you in Kentucky and you were attacked if I killed the skunk.

11:41 I feel like that was an attack. It was an experience. Okay, I will also say that was this interesting thing. That was my 19th birthday. That was my first time sleeping outside. I've never slept outside. I intend to keep it that way. But anyway, so after Kentucky 2018 is good 20 is good.

12:09 10:30 is good. OK Tony way after Kentucky the next summer. I went to Fort Lewis Washington and that's when I turn 21.

12:20 You so Washington state is really pretty. Yeah, except that's a very four officers that's are our training.

12:30 It's kind of our like time to prove ourselves like all the things we learned and some people have been like doing great at that particular waited and that's how they decide which branch you're going to get. My people have been like training for this for four years me as is my second year, but I turn my I turn 21 at Fort Lewis the day that we went to the gas chamber for the first time.

12:58 Why not? What's so basically you learn how to wear a gas mask?

13:09 So you make sure you take all these classes you make sure you know how to put a gas mask on properly and they have to test it. So they put you in a chamber and a bits the little building with like CS gas in it and then you have to take it off and understand.

13:27 But you have to take it off and like do things they accept I'll be able to talk or whatever as soon as you take it off and you take a breath. It feels like someone is like pulling the air out of your chest. This is what it feels like and that's also the same day where you where all of the full I'm stressed out again. You should be that's a very stressful day. There was I mean, it's all important know because of what you do obviously or could be called to do but it's stressful, but that was a particularly there.

14:04 I've been lucky with the short-term things that I want to just always been with great group of people are platoon their you have like models that you do like. So it's like 1st platoon second platoon their platoon in Lake Forest, but you don't have a model like, you know, I don't know something but we used to come up with silly models like everyday that Hadley action to them to wait. Do you do you say the motto? Is that like when you're marching or something and then I like Cadence a lot. I want to do that when they jump in so a little marching bands are you are okay, but you think it's a possibility. I'll call you. I just want to mark it markers.

14:57 Okay, so you have Matos? Oh, yeah, we would come up with a different one every day and all the other platoons. We are so annoying your favorite motto motto.

15:12 Well, there's like traditional models that are like long and I can't think of one right now. My mind is going blank. Okay.

15:23 Okay, so my unit now every time we get close with his name was a boy. So livid voice of a liberty voices of force and then my unit in Georgia. We are the Bears or the voice of anywhere New York and then my unit and Georgia we say freedom to maneuver because we are a maneuver enhancement Brigade and we make it possible for units be able to maneuver around cuz we support them.

15:51 So when you're in companies like it and training it might be like Charlie Rock Top of the Rock or something silly. So we would come up with like hilarious one. So like

16:02 I would like one of the Save a Horse Ride a Cowboy or something. And then there was on his highly inappropriate. I know it is do you remember?

16:17 I think it's Finding Nemo where they like mine mine mine mine mine. Do you know if I can or not? I don't watch movies or anyway, we had this one weird like bobbing up and down like these birds from this movie. It was very hilarious, but he doesn't do that and you riding these cattle cars.

16:37 Our platoon specifically from a ticket from went up and put a tip to A to point B and you would ride around these vehicles and it's basically standing-room-only and there was boring they be long and most people go to sleep. But whenever our platoon was it at we would just sing song the whole time so

16:56 I Got Friends in Low Places I knew the whole song and I've never actually heard that's how I learned all these random song that you know that they would be like over time your haters and we would just seen at the top of our lungs like every time we were in these cattle cards and when we we get mail every day because I'm somewhat of a mascot everywhere I go. I'm just kind of a ridiculous person. You know this about me. Do you have you ever watched Blue's Clues?

17:28 Hey ya like yeah, okay, so, you know the mail thing the mail song if you like here's the mail it never fails. It makes me want to just a little bit louder.

17:46 Yes. I don't know that I do know the backpack song from Dora the Explorer. That's not what you were talking about. But I figured you'd want to know that okay? Okay, so it's normally backpack backpack backpack backpack and then she goes on.

18:06 But my sister-in-law likes grass like you do like she likes to eat grass and like dirt weight. I like grass. Yeah, you know like healthy food. And so she would like to be coming over to my parents house and Tuesday next and then she pulled out the snack going to be like grass and dirt. So then I would say directory Mixbook ahead. Okay. So the song the blue song I was so every day we we get mail and I decided that it better know how this happens. I decided that we should sing a song for Mallory day. And of course my platoon Sergeant who was like an older guy and he looked as I think like we had fun with you guys. I think he had a blast with you was close to retirement and I don't know that he was all that happy in his personal life, but he just loved us so every day there was a dance to go with it everyday. I got a Thang the mail song and did a dance before we had mail.

19:07 But we had a good time.

19:13 Explain how you know Jackie? Yeah. Yeah we're going to do do we have to do it now? Okay. Yeah, we're going to get to it. Once we get to Syracuse. We're take it we're taking a road trip.

19:25 Okay, so that's cool. That was Washington. And do you feel like you were able to prove yourself?

19:32 Yes only because I feel like in this is serious as I've always had this voice and I've always smiled as much and obviously when people think of

19:47 A military people like super serious all the time and like, you know, it's hard. It's honestly been a struggle for me to be like, I'm an officer you have to take me seriously because of my voice and because positive happy person, but I'm also about business all the time and people who worked with me for at this point in my career definitely know that but specifically there I don't think that you know, anybody thought that I was serious about things because I I don't have a type of Personality people to think that I'm serious, but specifically we had to do a 10-kilometer ruck march after our assignment my patoon Sergeant believed in me when I was in charge and I would like screech across the battlefield. He liked the greatest thing ever. I know I heard it in the distance, but he knew that I was serious about it, but like my tears on the way back we had to carry.

20:45 Oportun how to figure out how to get back this very large old radio no caught a PRC or Limerick radio a very large old machine gun, which also had a spare barrel and a spare battery for the big old radio. So I have to go to we decided that if one person could carry it for each like all of it. Like we could have spread it out. So it was easier to carry it because that one person would carry for a kilometer each and you have 10 people all the things.

21:20 But not everyone a platoon we have more than empty. Everyone did it and they were like, it'll be the killer Clique club and I was like, I'm going to go first go for a full kilometer. I carried this big.

21:31 I don't can I curse how to make a bags big a machine gun a big a PRC radio and the spare in the spare battery pack n spare barrel and my rucksack. So for one kilometer, I carried all of this and I was like after that and it was just great. And after that ever was like, oh my goodness, you know ran ran like we didn't think like, you know, you could do that cuz I'm a girl. I'm very much a girl uniform but like really proud that I did it because I did it first and that kind of made the rest of the the rest of the March like a piece of cake because I just had my regular backpack and it's heavy but not like all that other stuff. So I felt like I mean I passed over and I didn't, you know finder in the whole thing. But after that, I think specifically I got that respect for my. Right. That was it was a good feeling. Good job run.

22:34 Because I'm kind of like I'm just the kind of person who does stuff and thinks about it later. Like I just like to try things and do things and

22:44 I think if no one else Believes In Me, I always know that I can do things so.

22:50 You got the time. I don't think that I was trying to prove anything. It was just right we're doing this like okay, we're doing this and

22:58 I did it. Yeah, I see that I see that about you. Yeah, and you also you also believe that I can do things sometimes I don't feel like I can do that's because I'm used to pushing people and telling them they can

23:18 Actually

23:20 I think there's a few things in the world that are hard to do right? I see that about you. Okay. So after Washington state, where did you go I came back today.

23:32 Next was Fort Benning, Georgia. You were there for how long 6 weeks? Okay, and how is the worst training ever? It was it was horrible. So the Army decided that they were and I don't know if it's nicer nicer with army decided that they were going to break up officer training into three parts. And the next the new part was this Fort Benning training. It was six weeks. We are already I already Commissioned I was a lieutenant and I was getting ready to go with him. I you know career-specific school to learn my job, but they they were coming up with this new phase and we all knew everyone in my class knew that they were going to have a pilot class that summer to test the program out before they started like the first class ever and my I remember my commander at my school was like I was like, this is so stupid. I don't want to go like nobody wanted to go but you know, it was very unlikely that we all had to go.

24:32 But he was like, you know, you don't want to go so much. You're probably going to be the only person has to go and I was the only person to have to go out of that hole of my graduating class in America of a graduating Lieutenant 200 got sent to the school and I was one of them and it was horrible but there was a major that I really liked and I met some very good friends there. So yeah, but generally speaking of asses not organized and not fun and it was a hot. I think with the hottest summer at Fort Benning ever people. This is we're passing out people were like dying for my heat not from our class but a lot of things infantry school training and ranger training at at Fort Benning and it's just a hot hot place and it was like the hottest summer and people were dehydrated all the time people getting struck by lightning my goodness crazy crazy times and I felt we all are the Lieutenant's

25:32 About that I owe and I turned twenty-two here.

25:38 We all felt that you know, we were lieutenants now until we shouldn't have like a March around and formations that you should be in charge of things in like it was just like setting us back to a phase that we already felt that way so it was very frustrating. So, where'd you go after that? After that? I went to Fort Bliss or is Fort Bliss, Texas, Texas, El Paso, Texas, right on the border of Mexico and I was there for three and a half years. It was the longest place I was when I was active duty.

26:11 Town.

26:13 It was interesting. I think that's the place that's

26:17 You know, I spent the bulk of my military career. There is episode more time there.

26:24 As a military person longer than I did anywhere else. So, you know, it was the first place that I like bought my own car rented a house. Like I just don't throw nothing and making friends and losing friends and joining a church and

26:47 Being in charge of things

26:52 And did you feel settled there?

26:58 I don't think it'll melt a you ever feel settled that I definitely I was supposed to go to Germany and I had some morning time about not getting assigned to germinate like I thought it was going to be but once I was in El Paso and you know, I was there this good thing about being at 4 place my training for my specific job, which my job at that time with an air Defender. Okay. Also, a lot of people for my graduating class ended up being stationed there as well. So I know how that goes a very wide front brace and like, you know a bunch of new lieutenants like our first look real job and we're very young like when I got there I would like a real paycheck. So we just kind of went like paint the town like a red and have a good time probably for like $20 and it wasn't very expensive and go out downtown. Did you really?

27:57 El Paso, I mean, I'm from New York city so I know but only something and I'll Paso I know if I have to do this but nothing I interchange the two of my brain a lot because besides being that ain't

28:18 No, no. No, it's just the feel of it. The only difference I would say is that.

28:26 It's a cultural difference. I was younger. I think that's the biggest difference. So whereas we were Khalid age but with money and so we could go down to like the college parts and have a good time and have a great time still be like intermingling with the students and it wasn't so you're really weird and inappropriate now, we're like much older so we can't really hang out with you know, a little too drunk right now. Maybe I was that drunk when I was young, but I don't remember that. I mean you wouldn't okay. So then after I'll Paso I moved to after I pass so I got a vector Duty and I got off active duty because as an air Defender that wasn't allowed places I could live so the next mom was like

29:13 Oklahoma and I wasn't into it. So I was I moved to Atlanta and got a job working for Target. And how long were you in Atlanta for years? And it was in the Georgia Army National Guard in the in the Georgia got was so different from active duty where I saw people everyday so

29:38 So how so you don't see people everyday in the National Guard and it really took a while to get into the groove of like, you know.

29:49 These are people that I see every month in like we can be I can look up to them and learn from them the same way, but if it's different it takes longer, but Atlanta was different because

30:01 Atlanta was different because I didn't have my like basic military people like having so it was hard to make friends. It was hard to meet people. But yeah, I can actually eventually by unit really became family but it just takes so much longer wears you go to a new unit. Anyway, you're active duty and people like take you in and let you know we are family now come hang out on Friday. You better be nice and you go have drinks like you have like mandatory fun with a lot of people don't like but I've always liked that structural front of fun in the Army other people really hate it. I kind of like that you take that mandatory fun out of the army and you've got it into your life and therefore your friends wives. Yes. Are you saying that I make you have met at the end so after Atlanta

30:51 After Atlanta, I went to Afghanistan for you. Okay with my Jordan unit and how long were you there 9 months?

31:03 And how is that?

31:05 Surprisingly I had a great time when I was in Afghanistan. Probably one of the biggest lie. I definitely had a great leadership that I respect and I looked up to you and I learn from and who respected me and my opinion in my expertise. I was a public affairs person this point. I was no longer your defense. But yeah being on a camp that I'm not going to lie. I don't like a big scary job in the Army. So I spent most of my time day today operations on a camping, you know, where you able to meet people outside of your pants Oh, yes the governor of like a different.

31:43 Different on camps and stuff. Cramps but different areas of Kabul. It is after a while. If you're going to a couple of beds like a shooting video and pictures not anything else think they were recognized me that got to go into a couple of acne at home that have meals with them after an event not just like hanging out.

32:05 It was I really had a great time and I am at great people and I heard you bought a lot of drugs. I did buy a lot of respect the other cool thing about our particular Camp was we had a lot of local shopkeepers that came on so I can't been sold us goods and got all of our money. So there was Jamal my rug person would bring me mango then he's like, hey, he would just really like nice things like, oh we're friends and he's like do you like mangoes and make sure is it you want me to bring you some mangoes? I'm like, yeah. Yeah and so he would bring me cases of mango and they would be like ready to eat like yesterday. So I would be walking around camp like trying to get mangoes to my friend because I didn't want to be impolite so that everyone was awesome. Shout out to Jamal in the Mango Mangos and all the rugs go the other interesting thing about Jamal as the last two rugs. I bought you I traded them for my old iPad. He would an iPad and I really want to do the last two roads and I'm like

33:05 We could just make a trade. So I bought two rugs in my apartment with an iPad. That's awesome stands, Syracuse. I got a job as a civilian with the Army and this is when you move to Syracuse, I mean, this is really when your life really change for the better because you got like such an amazing person in Syracuse by tell us about that.

33:38 The best thing about

33:41 The Army in my life just moving around everywhere that I've been able to like. Just great people. I've known you since November.

33:53 Yeah, we met New Year's Eve and we've just been like Inseparable ever said pretty much in Syracuse knows it.

34:04 Alameda Tori Pain that we have in Syracuse weather and other random players in Syracuse.

34:16 Yeah, I'm definitely happy there because of the people I met in such a small random strange place, but the people are great. So I think that you're a mean one. Probably.

34:30 Like I don't know how you do things that the military has taught you is how to make friends. Have you had a hard time keeping in touch with folks since you've been moving around so much. I think in general I'm is heart of me to keep a touch of people, but you're not really a talk on the phone kind of person Facebook helps. I have people from Fort Lewis that second place. I went to that I talk to on Facebook like on a regular basis. That's when I was in Afghanistan right this way. We would talk all the time is Jamal your Facebook friend know but you should look him up.

35:17 Who saying is Hussein was my other guy? I had several guys and Afghanistan but Blake Hussain. I need balloons for this event. He would remain balloons. Like there was nothing that I could I live in for that. He cannot get me if he was like bug guy he needs to move to Syracuse. He's pretty cool font on Facebook. That's why I don't know how successful is for him. Hopefully, hopefully hopefully he come to America, right? So Facebook makes it easier to keep in touch with everybody and you know something and have friends everywhere I go now so I know you do I travel to see people or I'm just happen to be traveling and I figure out who has relocated to that area and then we link up and then I also have friends who kind of like we've kind of like shattered each other. So my friend that I met at Fort Benning we were both stationed at Fort Bliss.

36:17 When I moved to Atlanta for my civilian job, she moved to Savannah for her civilian job. And now that I live in Syracuse she lives in Albany. So we've been kind of like funny hopping around the country right then lie together. That's all. Well aren't you? So happy that the Army brought you to me. Are you happy rather? Awesome high five?

36:41 Describe Jackie Jackie is

36:49 She is.

36:51 Independent

36:53 Brilliant

36:56 She is.

37:03 What's the word?

37:05 It's not Savvy but it's something like Savvy. I mean it kind of is babby.

37:09 She is quick-witted.

37:15 And she's a fast thinker.

37:22 Jackie can you describe Carrie Carrie?

37:29 Is so open-minded

37:33 And now that mental and just they're not just for me, but for people like anyone who needs her to be there. It's like it's really uncanny but fun.

37:48 Smart

37:51 Annum

37:54 I know the words to describe it, but she doesn't take shit.

37:59 Appropriate damn straight

38:07 One more question about your military experience.

38:13 You felt like cuz you talked about like being a kind of girly girl and that you're positive. Was there a specific time or somebody maybe doubted you or that you felt like they were under estimating you early on in my career. I'd say my first unit in general.

38:32 I work for great great people the military, but my first unit in general wasn't a place my commander all the way from the top and I hope he hears this but the top is didn't think I think and this is going to sound very shallow and and weird and I have to say this cuz it's one of the things that I'm just part of people like me and

38:55 And I think I think I don't know why but like it's it's one of the lucky things in my life people like me, but he liked me and I remember but he never thought I was going to be good at being an are a different person which I honestly that was not my favorite. That was not my best skill ever but it was nothing that I was never willing to work hard to be good at and my I was always gets my soldiers and always, you know strive to be the best leader for my soldiers and really that what I needed to do to get the job done for them and for my mission and that never that was never a problem, but he just had in his mind that I was not going to be a good officer and he told my boss and my boss and my boss later told me accidentally. I don't think he was supposed to repeat this to me, but I was also very involved in the community on top of being in the military and just like doing my job. I also like good random things in the community all the time and he told my boss that I was

39:55 A I would make a good Christian wife, but I was a horrible Warrior.

40:02 I'm at sleep, and I was just blown away and

40:08 It's so funny because it's so 2013 of us to be offended by that statement. But for me, I was like, you know that other part had nothing to do with it. Even if I was I'd went to church and then I think everybody at the church, but

40:25 I was so offended by that but

40:29 But now I spend a lot of my younger friends my friend in in in Georgia specifically. I spent a lot of time, you know trying to Mentor like my younger officer friends to like really separate not I decided a long time ago that I was going to be myself. You know, I decided I'm not going to change who I am because other people have his ID at me cuz I'm still getting the job done in my I have right. I have evaluations that prove it that he signs like that. It was never a problem with me being able to get the job done. But I just decided that as long as I'm serious about my work. I personally doesn't have to change and I think it's it's like a Evans Army 10 years now 10 years and I don't feel like it but I have been successful especially in the last couple of years and it's because it's it's largely because of that same fact that people like me and I'm serious about getting the job done.

41:25 So I didn't have to change my personality is but it's the whole thing. I think there was time when I was worried that I would have to but in the long run, especially in Afghanistan it really serve me. Well if you have to go and ask for anything, I need it and people know that I respect them and and I'm also serious about what I'm doing and I might have a good time doing it, but it doesn't mean that I care about any less or I'm not as serious about it.