Maria Oyanguren and Ruby Gonzalez Hernandez

00:06 Hi, my name is Ruby. I am 23 years. Old. Today is Thursday, August 26th. 2021. My location is New Haven, Connecticut. And my partner is Tina and I met Tina yesterday and we both work at or have worked at Art space gallery in Downtown, New Haven.

00:28 Hi, my name is Tina. I'm 21 years old. Today is Thursday, August 26th, 2021. I'm also in New Haven Connecticut and my partner is Ruby and we just met yesterday through.

00:46 Trait is grated mean I'll meet you. I know, we don't really know each other that our boss and our space was telling me a little bit about how you're studying at you and art history and a tiny bit about how you came to artspace. But I would love to know. Like, you know, why are space? Why, you know, why our history, you know, any anywhere from?

01:19 And my parents are Educators, they both work at a school. So I grew up hearing a lot about like colleges and, you know, my dad was always involved. My dad is the principal so he was always involved with the senior conversation starters. Yes, so he always talk to me about college. Both, my parents went to college here in the States, because they moved in the 80s.

01:57 Basically, like a civil war here in the states when I was thinking about going and Artistry and I just realized I could do this for a living.

02:34 Artist like to not think I was going to get in and I ended up getting in so it's like well, okay.

02:42 Yeah, that's so cool. So your parents immigrated at the Civil War and you were born in the u.s.a. I was born in Miami, but I was born there. So basically the war kind of ended in the 80s or 90s, if I was still kind of hungry, so I was going to be a twin, and it was a really high risk pregnancy. And my mom, because my parents were living there. I was born there more, like, they felt safer. Okay. It's so cool. Is what are Mexico? And specifically the story that makes me think of of this is that when my mother was pregnant with my older brother?

03:42 She went to visit her mother in Mexico. Oaxaca. We are indigenous to Oaxaca Mexico. I'm a couple thick and she went to go visit her 192 because she knew that her mother was healthy. And, you know, at that point in time, it was a lot easier to cross the border illegally, so she went because her mother was healthy and she knew that that she was running out of time before. That wasn't going to be the case anymore. You know, she was getting older on it's on its way like declining. And yeah, so my mother and my father at the time.

04:29 You know, went back to Oaxaca soft family. So everybody and a few months before she was about to give birth. My grandmother came to her and was and told her like he should stay here and forget about the US and just live your life here and settle down and it'll be all right. And my mother knowing the quality of life that she had her has in the in the US was like no way. How could I want it? And I don't mean like, I don't mean like like quality of life like like specific, like, like

05:15 There is something that living in your own country gives you that living in the US. Can't, I'm, I'm, I'm saying this as someone who has never been to Mexico and the US her whole life, but I can, I can see it. It's so apparent. Like there is there is so much of me that wishes that my family didn't need to immigrate out of our country to come here, you know, like this country has granted me so many privileges but there is so much lost in exchange for that. You know what, I don't know if you feel the same way, you know, but but that's that's part of the reason why my mom didn't last one because, you know, lack of education and poverty. Not a lot of opportunity and she wanted better for

06:06 She wanted to eat everyday essentially, like literally that they comes down to that, you know, so, so, yeah, I mean, I don't know how to, how do you feel about living in the u.s. Verses Nicaragua? So we are basically the second poorest country in the Western Hemisphere.

06:34 Not help. Sorry, wealth inequality is cute. Huge. There's no basically no middle class is just poverty and

06:46 And I'm super super privileged. Like I grew up.

06:54 I never, I had food. I had a house. Like I went to school. I went to a Bilingual School, which is like even more. Yeah, you know, but I didn't have the same experience with my parents that had to leave and like my dad basically left when he was seven and came back when he was 25, so they definitely had a

07:20 I mean, similar to your mom, I guess. Yeah, my mom left when she was about 18 since I wanted to ask you to have your parents always lived in New Haven.

07:40 No, so when they emigrated about the integrated separately, my mom was about 16 17, 18 round there. I forgot. And my father was, I think even younger and he was like, probably 15. So from Oaxaca Mexico, which is lighter than the US border, Southern southern Mexico to Santa Ana, California for like food and what would I find? So interesting also is like communities like, you know where my mother is from San Sebastian. 35. They have a tendency to immigrate in pods. There are certain areas in the US. So my mother where she's from they immigrated to

08:40 Santa Ana, California, Fullerton, California some random place in Wisconsin. Not even New Haven and I have no idea why I think it's just like, you know, the first person who landed in these in these areas was able to secure a job and then back home, like people knew they had a place to stay safely like crash in a in a safer way then just showing up and not having any where to go or anything to do, you know, so it's funny because you know where I'm from my specific Pueblo. They don't come to New Haven State, the closest places to sell my my mom actually followed my aunt at the time. He was living in Santa Ana with her.

09:34 Two New Haven because my aunts husband his travels to immigrate to New Haven.

09:48 What? I haven't a lot of meat, like I mean, Latin X, people that I've met in New Haven, a lot of eyes, like I expected a lot of them to be Mexican. I don't know why. Maybe that's your house that I had before moving to the states. What if there's a lot of ecuadorians in Snowflake?

10:14 There's a lot of nicaraguans in Miami and San Francisco.

10:34 It's kind of wonderful to think that, you know, the new generation, the new, like young, people like ourselves who are mean particular, who would who don't have a physical, like, literal memory of of what I want. I want to see what home actually is because this is home. But but I I'd like to say what what home was supposed to be. I keep that in the back of my mind and I remember like yeah that's like New Haven is. Is this Quinnipiac land? Like is is my home now, but if you know,

11:18 If you was intervention and, and, and neoliberalism, and Lionel, all these other things that aren't directly related to us, hadn't played a role in in causing the stump. No effect for my family to need to flee our country then maybe I would be in Sunset most Anthony by and maybe I would have I'm not entirely sure. What did your parents think about? You studying art history at Yale.

11:56 Say much to me like, against studying art history, because they were

12:07 But I think as long as I'm

12:11 Sometimes I think they're fine. Yeah, yeah.

12:24 They're pretty happy with it. Yeah, that's I wish that was my transition from high school in to was about 15. I was super young and gosh. I actually, you know what, I actually attended a program posted at artspace. They have this yearly summer apprenticeship program. That I know you ran last summer helps run. So I was fifteen. I was, I was a rising Junior at New Haven Academy and BCA and I was going through some really hard like family to family things and you know,

13:24 XD already has a team, but all of those like other stuff, just, just made it so much worse. Anyways, one of my teachers sort of pushed on me to apply to this program to do something for the summer. You know, I was planning on staying home, on my couch, and watch anime and eat ramen noodles everyday. And I think they sort of got the sense that I wasn't really in the greatest place and not around the greatest influences. So I applied and I got in that year, it was with us. So there's you know, how there's like a leading artist. Yeah. Yeah, Yeahs and Dexter Singleton and Camille Hoffman and Erin just far as mostly or Dexter and Aaron are our local artists. I think Camille at the time.

14:24 Is attending Yale MFA. Anyways, I had no idea and that people wanted me to be in and to make art, you know, and then and help me in and give me like texting tricks, or whatever. So the criminal justice system, like the prison system required that you up to to, to be apart, you know, Titus, I don't I think back now, and I am so appreciative, how much thought goes into a program like that, you know, like it like it.

15:20 I don't know. I think some people may think that if it doesn't really make that big of a difference or like really have that much of a lasting impact, but that was kind of like the first Domino that kind of fell in my mind and was like, Hey, like wow, like wait a minute, I there are people that look like neither making a living off of that. I think that's really it was, you know, not to sound dramatic, but it was nothing short of like extraordinary and and and life-changing, you know, and I these people are my mentors now, you know, and anyways, I was getting to the point. I was saying how I attended the program.

16:08 And it made me decide to be an artist and my mom was not happy but not at all. My dad wasn't in my life. So doesn't really matter what he thought. But my mom was like, oh my God, my child is going to starve. We're going to die. Like a like a maximum hysteria. Like, I can't believe you please like to take me like, please don't talk about this again. Do you want me to tell you the story of how I came to? The like, I didn't think I was going to get this much resistance, you know, and so over the years, you know, you're developing or more getting a little more serious and I'm thinking about the future I think up until that point. I wasn't really considering what would become of my life.

17:02 Which is insane, which is also probably a sign of depression. You know, how hard like living as a young person can be, especially right now to, you know, you like it rough, you know, like they're I'm so fortunate to have a bit more opportunity then say, you were meted like when we were in our team, but still so difficult. Like I I I don't even know if I could do it myself to the internet or that has to like, it's only been increasing. Anyways. That, I mean that's how you know, it started. And then a few years later, I go to school for a semester in Upstate New York, and it was awful did not have the community that I needed and ultimately couldn't couldn't make it, you know, you know, it just it just

18:02 Workout, very crushing. So I came back to New Haven for the expecting, like, oh, cuz at the time, you know, I really hated New Haven and I didn't feel like I had the resources that I needed as a teacher in whatever, whatever. And that's within my own right, you know what, it's like 19 or whatever. But the city has a way of of, of pulling you in and embracing you and, and like, I don't know. I, I, I, I used to consider moving to like New York or like LA and like, going on to bigger and better things and and whatever, whatever, there's not like a safety, not so to speak. But there are people here that have gone out of their way to support me and encouraged me to grow. And I

19:02 I I I I don't know where else I could see myself putting in that same energy into the young people today, you know, like I know I would love to give back or I am trying to get back in the same way that

19:15 I want to invest in young people the same way that people invested in me when I was a kid. Anyways, all this to say, two years later. And the gallery manager. I was, you know, program coordinator for the for the sap program and it's like just an honor. I don't know. I don't know how I

19:42 I mean the same thing you said it, it was life-changing for me except I wasn't, I wasn't one of the students. I worked with kids played several times, but they've always been little kids. So this is my first time working with teenagers experiences of different cultures and just, and make art and meet new people. And

20:21 I don't know what to do.

20:23 I learned so much about New Haven to because the project was based on their neighborhoods and their neighborhood were there. We had the VR and you were in their environment and

20:44 I felt like I was like, yeah, it's like being on the other side of it, like, really it. What is it? Not putting things in perspective. But like, it was that there's something about when you're working on a project or even like teaching in in a setting like that where you can kick it until first of all, if you're like 15, or if you don't want to be there at like if you're lying or not, and I think what makes it work, so well, is that the artists themselves want to be there and the staff, you know, like you in, like, down to the details? Like, some kids were really we're a bit more particular about their snacks, or whatever. And you know, what smart space at the time, telling me. Hey you, you can't really buy like chips and, and, and gummy bears. You got to keep it healthy. So, I would go to Costco and I would look for that like fruit bass snack, for snack.

21:44 I knew that they loved it and you know, it's it's that type of care in intention. That really does it for me. And for them, you know, I really be this. I really want to see this like this type of intention or this type of care like being put in like they're like something like that, you know, like it's definitely not there. I don't know what your experience was in high school, but I feel like there are so many barriers that aren't necessarily the teachers but like the entire structure of the problematic.

22:25 Will my school was super, super small? So my graduating class was like 40 kids. I didn't know. It was a small school like three hundred kids. Max all four grades, and it was amazing, but I feel like

22:52 Have they had more control over, you know, their resources, that the support from the state, you know, and in those types of things like they put their all into it, but sometimes like you're in an environment as a young person and you can see all of these barriers up against you and it doesn't, it made a lot of things not want to try, you know, and I don't blame them. Yeah.

23:22 Well, I wanted to ask you, this is completely off topic because we were talking about her space. But you mentioned you are from Oaxaca Oaxaca. Do you like how to use and you've never been. So, how do you say I'm connected to like her culture. Did you get that a lot from your family or your own research and learn about it? Because well, I'll tell you about it later, but I want to know how you a little background. I grew up a bit. No, actually really, really like depressed. I guess. I don't know what it was, particularly actually know. That's a lie. I do. I grew up in a very strict Pentecostal, like, religion. And I don't know if you're familiar, but in the Pentecostal like,

24:22 When they call it a denomination, there are like Berry Street, expectations of how you should dress and what you should do. Like how do you talk to other people and like things you can and can't do, you can't dance, you can't drink, you can't earrings. You can cut your hair. You can't do XYZ, whatever, whatever. And in a Twisted sense, you know, you had to earn your love from God and you know, I, I love God, but this way that I grew up was really damaging to that relationship. I'm so anyways, I also was not in love with my culture growing up. I was I was really opposed, really rejected it. I wanted to be white and and I had a lot of self-hate going on because of that, you know, hard environment. So,

25:18 As I got older and as I realized that, I was sort of allowed to feel what I feel and, and understand that I didn't need to be stuck somewhere like that. I decided to, to discover more of, who I was and why I wanted to. Because up until that point. I've always been told so it kind of started there. I think my first thing that I did was connecting with my family. My grandpa, 4th from LA, to Oaxaca. My grandfather, born in Oaxaca, Mexico. All of his life in the Army works, in the fields in Texas for like 20-something years until he couldn't anymore. Has a pension from both countries.

26:16 Kind of someone that my family gets tired to talk to because he he goes on his, you know, how people can be in sand and whatever it is like they do because they're old and nobody wants to get in their way. And you know, they have this assumed like they have this. I don't like you need to respect them because they hold a lot of power more than I initially realized. And I started to talk to him. You know, I have only met him a handful of times in my life, but over the phone, you know, like oh like sides have a conversation with him for hours and he wouldn't get tired because he's equally as like interested in energetic can just keep going. So it kind of It kind of went from there. Yeah. How about you?

27:13 Well, I I love learning about like family histories and you know family trees and cultural like history, but my soul.

27:29 It's kind of different because I grew up my whole life, but I lived a very like, I grew up with spell American American culture. If you could call it that in my house and when I was little it was the same really wanted to be a working and I only wanted to like watch movies and TV in English in English and I realized how much I actually love me closer and love my country. But there's a lot of strong indigenous culture that still exist.

28:29 I really don't know anything about them and I've been trying to like, figure out how I can learn more.

28:37 But definitely not what you were saying when you were little about growing up and being a little more like wanting to assimilate a little more and then like it's it's hard to like, try to explain like, you don't have to change who you are to be considered an American, or considered a part of this community because there's so many different communities coming here. You know, we're already here. Yeah. Ask. Is there an intersection of like where your interest in art history come and like your Nicaraguan culture? Like have you been able to meet or work with like artists from Nicaragua?

29:37 Yes, so

29:40 I started taking art classes when I was like eight or and it was at this, like Cultural Center, not even a cultural center. It was a store. It was called a mother dolphin hair and she knew all the artist.

30:09 It she sold like little earth like crafts and like different things and everything else. Traditional and on Saturday morning, turn up later. A guy who has a very respected and very famous artist. And so it was all adults, but my mom knew yes, it was a great experience. I kind of grew up around all these people that painted, and then the first summer, after my freshman year. I worked with this girl who was organizing an auction of Nicaragua, and my job. She was in DC. So my job was basically just talked to the artist in me. Had I was so I got to meet a lot of people and that was a cool experience. Has been trying to ask people, I know, and to do some of my own research because I really want to learn about like,

31:06 Indigenous Arts cuz I know we're not real. Have like gold pieces or Costa Rica is like kind of things for their indigenous gold pieces. After that. We have a lot of Ceramics. So that's what I was worried about that and there's a lot of work.

31:29 Yeah, but yes, that's fine.

31:37 It's, I don't know. It's something about finding your passion and just going forward and like searching for it and in deciding where you go with it, I guess, like, I it took me a couple years to understand and then believe that, I actually, I want to stay in New Haven and I want to let you know, I have Roots here. I'm going to continue to grow that. My community loves me, and I love it. And I feel like this is where my work is and I, I don't know, I'd least shared a little paragraph about you and like, I just want to know, like, where do you where do you want to go? Like, where do you want to set your roots down? Or where do you want to experiment? You know, I've been thinking about this a lot because

32:22 Well graduations, two years away, but that's because I see a lot of friends are about to graduate and I think that is where I want to settle down, but I don't know if I'm going to find a job that I love their opportunity. But at the same time I'm like well, but I think ideally I would go back to you and I I get it. You know, I like I have lived have lived a very weird life. I'll say like

33:14 Tough life and it's forced me to look it within myself and really, really think about who I am and who I wanted, or who I want to be and where I want to be, and

33:29 I don't know hard, it is so difficult, but I think that the really interesting thing is is like not even like I don't want to say we have so much time. But I guess what I hear is that this is the time to experiment and find out, you know, like maybe maybe I will send but right now, like this is, what's granted me? The opportunity to experiment and feel safe enough to grow. You know, I see that you don't get the young people in sap and I see that in the seasons of change that come and that comes and goes at Art Space itself. You know, it's it's, I don't know. I don't know. I I feel I feel kind of scared like thinking about moving to someplace like New York because it's for me for me. I get like a little pit in my stomach like it's so, you know, overwhelming.

34:29 And for me right now, it's kind of scares me. I don't know if I can do that. Like, it's not inconsistent, but it's it's so like looking new thing every day, you know, like I worked in New York before like I've had jobs like outside of Connecticut, but I don't know if I could do that for longer than like a month or like whatever contract that is, you know.

35:01 I do enough for you. Now that you said that that you. It feels like you can grow here. I agree. I think New Haven feels like a good place to grow. Like I feel very sad. I feel very supportive and I'm glad, you know, I love to get their experience a lot of people, you know, get their started our space and learn about, you know, managing a gallery and assisting the executive director. They go somewhere else which is totally fine, you know, but it it just like, it feels like a like a, like an incubator and there's that something so special that

35:48 Actually never put into words before I guess. I just that happens in other cities bigger cities, like New Haven that feels so safe. Sometimes compared to you. No other places.

36:09 Thank you so much for meeting with me today, Tina. I had a great conversation. Alright. Take care.