Shyrl-Ann Hunt and Lyndele Von Schill

00:10 My name is Lindell vancho. I'm 48 years old. Today is June 1st. 2005. We're in Charlottesville, Virginia, and I'm interviewing my sister Cheryl.

00:24 I'm Shirley Ann hunt I'm 46. And today is June 1st 2005 and we're in Charlottesville, Virginia and I'm receiving questions for my sister Cheryl.

00:37 I mean window.

00:40 Sure, we're going to talk about Mom and I'd like to know what the first word to describe mom. If you were to describe someone who didn't know her what would you say? Wow, this is some kind hearted loves children loved.

01:03 She never knew a stranger SOS first children Tia.

01:08 I think she devoted her life to

01:11 First her kids and then grandkids neighborhood kids and

01:17 So that would be okay. This would love for children. What's your earliest memory about Mom?

01:28 I remember in the kitchen with her probably two or three and just watching her. I think I was sitting at the table may be in a booster seat.

01:40 Mole she was cooking and

01:44 Just chatting one of the other kids on the floor at her feet.

01:51 Just smiling

01:57 Did Mom spend a lot of time with you in the kitchen? If she didn't teach me how to cook because he didn't like it was no, she didn't she cooked out of the fattest out of necessity that I remember her teaching me, which was very good. And the

02:25 That the Spectrum but we just spent a lot of time in the kitchen that was more of our time with so many of us. I think her and I spent more time together in the kitchen.

02:36 You mentioned that she really liked being around children. And you mention neighborhood children. Can you tell me a little bit about that?

02:45 As we were growing out of the neighborhood we lived in a neighborhood with

02:53 A lot of children's there was three to the left.

02:56 3 to the right 5 directly across the street three to the left of them.

03:03 Two to the right of him seven children behind us. So then we were surrounded by kids and I think it was that expression the Kool-Aid how our house would have been considered effective Lighthouse. Everyone hung out. In fact daddy couldn't keep grass in the front yard because there are always children playing in the yard.

03:33 What do you think that?

03:37 Mom would have wanted

03:40 Her children to remember about her.

03:44 Wow.

03:45 It's that's a funny one. Cuz I don't think she would have thought it would have been important enough that we

03:54 And I remembered much. Other than that. She was a good mom. Obviously she took pride in.

04:00 The six of us and how well we

04:04 More

04:07 What traits do you see if Mom and any of any of that, probably her generous with?

04:17 And when it comes to children to and patience Joshua so patient.

04:24 Was probably just heard a huge love of people and giving

04:36 What do you think about the fact that Mom was not close to her brothers and sisters?

04:44 When they grew up, how do you think that affected the way she raised her own children?

04:52 That's one of the things that I used I would ask her. You know, why or why did we turn out to be so incredibly close with you know one another but yet her she was not and she did it true that to the age difference between her and her other Buena her siblings.

05:16 I think the fact that she wasn't close to hers her siblings. She wanted to make sure that we

05:22 We were in even though I don't remember any.

05:27 Any conversations about you know why we should be close or anything like that. We just it was just one of those things that was you know,

05:38 Did did Mom ever talk to you about her relationship with her mother with Nana?

05:46 Yeah, she did she talked about that.

05:51 But Nana was serious. There wasn't a lot of time to beat, you know to have fun and to play with kids. It was a serious role for her.

06:03 Being a wife and a mother and she looked at it like that. And where is Mom me new moms priorities were not quite the same as Nana's.

06:15 Housekeeping in in managing the home and making sure the kids were presentable and all that was important to Nana and it wasn't to Mom.

06:28 Did she give you any indication about why that might be did she consciously change the way she lived her life and the way she was brought up.

06:43 I don't think Mom deliberately changed the way she raised us to the deliberate thing. I think it is. Just the way who Mom was Shirley mom sister, I think would have done the same thing. They both would have been closed.

07:03 Two family to their they would have remained close to each other. Dash Berlin because they were closing age had yes have ants really not died. I think that we would have had a relationship with Aunt Shirley and her children, I think maybe because they were the two youngest they probably

07:27 Probably understood that I guess what mom wanted us to have is this closeness of family and importance of family.

07:34 I know Mom was not a very sad person in general. She didn't really do well on things like that, but was there any particular thing that Mom?

07:46 Was sad about or regretted?

07:50 I think in her childhood, I think it it always said she would bring it up at a smoothie the fact that she wasn't really close to her father. You know that there was a lot of them.

08:05 Contact should get a pat on the head and that would be her sign of affection from her father. And I think that

08:15 Might not when she's growing up. It might not have bothered your I don't I don't think she's in fact, I think she said she just didn't know any different but when she saw her father with the grandchildren and it was a different side, I do remember Mom saying that that she always frowned and wondered why it was easy for him to show affection.

08:39 Tarantula to the grandchildren, but not to his children.

08:48 Do you think that?

08:50 Tell me what you know about Mom and and Dad and why she might have chosen dad.

08:58 Wow, probably because they were two of a kind. I think they and they waited 27. I think when they met or are got married and them.

09:12 She did hurt. You know, she had her career. She became an RN I'm going into the Air Force and met him in the Air Force.

09:26 That's a funny one because mom never really even though I asked many questions about their courting and dating and she was she kept at a lot to herself and I

09:39 I never understood why but I think it was I really think it was love at first. I thought they knew immediately that they were meant for each other and

09:50 They would get married to.

09:53 They didn't date 5 months before they got engaged and then so they got engaged in February got married in June.

10:00 I didn't know that.

10:04 What day do they do 5 months before they got engaged?

10:08 They ended up having six children.

10:12 Now

10:15 Mom wanted more. Did she?

10:20 She did early on but then after the six that was V actually was enough until she had the boy image decided. Okay, he needs a companion sir.

10:33 My sense for Mom and Dad is it they were probably most proud of their family and their children.

10:48 Well, I guess we can talk about something else now.

10:55 What about mom? Did she ever talk to you about what she wanted to do with her life? And did you get a sense that she did what she wanted to do or was there something missing?

11:06 I think the fact that Mom became an Orion that was out of phone.

11:11 Really it without a spine you to her brother-in-law.

11:17 She had not really wanted to go to college. She wanted her. She wanted to be a mother and a wife and that was it. And then when she started college she was going to drop out and got word from her. I heard overheard a conversation from her brother-in-law that she would never make it she would quit so she went to nursing school just to spite him and went into the air force for that. Just like if nothing else to do so and Adventure but

11:45 So soon as she get her and Daddy got married and had you she didn't go back to work for.

11:54 15

11:56 20 years so she did what she wanted to do. That's she wanted to be a mother and

12:03 Why did she go back to work?

12:06 Turn back to work because of no one Sean and their difficulties in school in the public schools and in Jacksonville. There were a lot of factors that.

12:17 What difficult for Noble and Sean and in order for them to go to a special school that was for like a one-on-one scoring very expensive in and daddy couldn't afford it. So she went back to being a nurse to send the boys to a private school.

12:37 I remember that because I remember that she didn't really I know that she didn't enjoy nursing nursing and I wondered why she really did do that, but it makes sense that she enjoyed it after she went into private duty nursing then she enjoyed that she at the hospital at I think it took a lot out of her sting.

13:00 I just wasn't her passion to be a nurse.

13:05 It's funny. You should say that because I remember when we were children.

13:11 Mom is very loving but she wasn't exactly very forgiving for patients with injuries or

13:19 BST don't know what sick is until you've been to the hospital that sort of thing, but she was a neighborhood nurse if anyone got hurt.

13:29 They own, you know, everyone came to Mom regardless whether it is a

13:34 Missing finger even they took him to Mom before they went to the house. Do you remember tell me about when Sean our youngest brother was burned when he was three tell me about that and what you remember Mom telling you about it. I was home when that happened. I had just called. I faked being sick and called to be picked up from school. So Mom can let the house to pick me up and Naomi was there daddy's mom.

14:07 Was there for the summer and daddy left to go get a part for a furnace who was working on? So while they were both gone and in nami's care Noble and Sean were in the backyard playing Indian and they built a little fire out of pine straw.

14:24 And

14:25 Mom and Daddy drove up at the same time and the Boy Scouts they were afraid and they start the fire at in it ignited Shawn's pants and then in his legs.

14:38 So when?

14:41 Sean came banging on the back door. There was at plated glass door. So it look like his entire body was in flames and I saw that and immediately.

14:53 I was just watching Mom and Daddy working in mom ran into the bathroom to run water in the tub and daddy smother the fire with his body and carriage Sean into the tub.

15:12 And Dad stayed with him. I was on the phone to the hospital preparing the hospital that they were on their way, and I remember myself being terrified.

15:23 But watching them and how come they were in and charge him?

15:29 It was almost like they're not afraid and I couldn't understand that but

15:35 And why they took him to the hospital and

15:40 Mom stay there for didn't come home for a week with him. And then after the way Daddy went back to work and they had to mom had to leave Saint during the day and every night. She spent the night at the hospital with him and he recovered very well. And in fact the pain level he had the one thing that Mom was very proud of his that he was not in pain considering the burns and the hospital in the doctors attributed that she was with him the whole time so

16:12 But that calmness was what?

16:17 Surprise me so much because I knew with the pizzas.

16:21 Yeah, that's interesting. I I wasn't there and that's something that people of remark about with us as parents. I think it's like when a new falls off a horse. I don't I don't worry about it and it's a setup for Mom this time to worry and that she said that there was time to worry and cry after an emergency. No.

16:42 How do you think that affected Sean's burn Burns affected their relationship Sean and Mom?

16:52 It just breaks the right to cut the mom saying that she had six only children being burned in the attention that he got it even though we thought you know, he was a slightly spoiled in a frat and a stinker. I think I don't think he really was we just use that too as our weapons universe as a sister and two getting but I think Mom really did has six only children we all think we were the favorite in the only want only one.

17:31 Do you ever what Sean was when he started school and

17:39 Started running out of the house every morning and climbing a tree so he didn't have to go to school. How did Mom handle that? Do you remember it?

17:50 She was very

17:52 Patient but very concerned. She didn't tell me this was totally unheard of in that time frame that a child refusing to go to school. And that's in the second grade is when it started and Sean was burned when he was three.

18:10 So maybe

18:14 Mom never would let anyone connect the two together again of the fact that he was burned and hurt that why he didn't go to school. He did has severe learning disabilities. And that was tough for Mom and Dad both were both pretty intelligent people and Sean had severe, you know at that time learning disabilities and the school system did not know about add or no arm. Dyslexia even known fact, I think that was him that was the newest term in the field. So

18:49 She is always patient with him. You never even if he climbed the tree. She was at the bottom of the tree waiting for him to come down and

18:56 I think she was patient with him and

19:00 You know in later years that I remember Mom talking about having learning disabilities herself.

19:08 She talked about it more when we were adults. Did she talk to you about how it might have affected her as a child?

19:16 Yes, we talked about it because Joshua having attention deficit also, she

19:24 Said that she is going to he got it from her.

19:28 Sean got it from her and then

19:32 She does she believed she had learning disabilities in school. She struggled in she make good grades, but it was difficult and even in Her speech and I'm seeing was slightly dyslexic.

19:50 But she said it did it did it was difficult in school for her and she she had troubles with homework that

19:57 The grades were okay and

20:00 She went to her family were they were okay with her as long as she finished school and went to school really bothered Mom. I know that one thing up before we moved too much Beyond her child that I want to talk about her brother, Billy.

20:20 Who died in World War II? What did she say to you about him? What do you remember most about?

20:27 Her feelings about losing him.

20:30 He was the only boy and

20:34 He she was his favorite and he would pick her up from school and carrier in the wagon wagon home from school and he

20:48 I think he probably would have been more the father figure is you know, showing her affection and was and I'm even Aunt Shirley didn't and she was the baby didn't get the attention from Billy that Mom dead.

21:04 And she remembers the day but then the word came that he had died. Well first she remember the day that they were told he was in prison and Amanda. I think he was in prison for 3 years before work came that he had died in a damn it while he was on the boat. Do you remember the name of the of the arisan Maru the arisan Maru? It was a prisoner for ship not labeled as prisoners American prisoners. They were bringing the healthy prisoners to Japan for labor and the Americans bomb that ship and x700 American prisoners died.

21:48 So he was on that ship.

21:51 I'm in Mom and Nana were very proud of Billy for surviving 3 years of prison and being one of the healthy ones after 3 years to go to Japan. So they I think that was probably what kept them. You know, what made it? Okay, everything wasn't that he was healthy when he died and not so maybe they attributed that to being not tortured and and

22:25 Are names I I'd like some of that because Mom put a lot of thought and effort into our names.

22:33 Just tell me about some of them and what you think she was thinking and why she wanted to give us the name. She did Lindale your name, and I know she told me because Dad always called her Del that that's where your name came from her nickname. And Daddy was the only one that called Mom tell she was called Adele when she was growing up. My name Shirley. Ann was from Aunt Shirley her sister.

23:05 As in Norman o for bed.

23:09 Mom did this to them they had picked out the name Noble William for Bob.

23:15 And so when he was in the hospital and was born daddy wasn't there.

23:20 Does she sign the birth certificate Norman Jr. I didn't know that and they had discussed it and daddy did not want him to be in junior junior. She just attributed that to being a little too proud to want a son being a junior. He seriously just didn't like the name. No, he didn't want him to be a junior. He was Siri in a long. She's like why he didn't mean it. That's typical, but he did.

23:51 I think that that's named and I guess that's why we call her name. She never really had a story behind as she just liked it and I don't know the story behind We Karen's name and it's Lee and Karen but we've always called her lie, Karen.

24:17 And the same with the one noble noble William that's all named after Papa and he was tested these Deborah's I want right now is dad's father but never was supposed to be bugs name and then finally Noble was born so he got the name family name and William is her brother Philly Philly. So Noble as a family is a mine and Nobles and probably the only connection to family.

24:47 I'm in Sean. If it's an Irish name, I think she did it for the nuns. I think so speaking of which I'd like for you to tell about the story.

25:00 But you know, we we were brought up Catholic and went to Catholic schools. And I remember finally being allowed to leave in the 9th grade, but something happened then we suddenly stopped going to church and then we had to go to Catholic school anymore and

25:20 I never really got the full story about what happened. So I know you must know. I know you got out of school because of you were put on that pedestal and didn't want to be in on the way there. So thankfully for you. I got out at the same time.

25:43 But we Karen Bob.

25:47 And Noble

25:50 Sean was not there in school at the time. It's been this happen.

25:55 So they stayed in another year. The falling-out happened on this is going to make me cry window.

26:02 Kindergarten

26:04 The night of graduation for kindergarten for Noble if they were getting dressed and the phone rings and it was some sister just thing and telling Mom that not to bring Noble and Noble was not going to graduate kindergarten.

26:23 After Double had already been expecting to yes, and this is kindergarten and nothing was said until that evening after she had all of us dressed to go and no there's no warning. Mom had no warning that there might have been problems with no one school and Noble had not shown any signs of problems in kindergarten so they really couldn't figure out why don't you discussed it with the nuns the next day they just told her their answers was that them? They didn't think he was ready for first grade and he should stay back in kindergarten.

26:57 There might have been more sad, but that's all I'm that Mom conveyed. So from that day on we never went back to church again. Yeah, I've often wondered because it was sort of like the end of religious life. There was a family and she she was some

27:12 She was a pretty hard but no speaking of the church though. I know I just told you this story not too long ago that.

27:22 With having six children and they decided that was enough. She did go to the priests and ask permission to use some form of birth control. And then I think you've done your duty.

27:37 So he wasn't he he didn't say but

27:41 That was her fifth pretty funny. I would never even have thought of asking but she did and she got she she figured she got her answer by saying you've done your you've done well my child.

27:55 That's pretty funny.

27:58 Do you ever dream about Mom and Dad?

28:04 I don't dream about mom and dad like Memories bringing, you know, when we were younger and they had a dream that they're back aren't you know that they're they came back. Dumb. I always wake up from him. I don't like them.

28:19 No, I don't know why but I don't let him continue but it happens a couple of times a year. We had this some this October will be 3 years. And yes since Mom.

28:32 And 5 for Daddy and September. Does it feel any easier for you now?

28:42 I know I shouldn't do that.

28:46 It's not quite as hard as I thought it would be.

28:52 But I know it's because I have you take her and we were pretty lucky.

28:58 Okay. Well, let me ask you this.

29:04 We've had a hard time with the family coming up with the tradition now to replace what was important to Mom.

29:12 What would you think would be the one thing she would really want us to try to get back on track with Christmas.

29:20 And that's the hardest one for me because my kids are grown. So it's easier for me to just to let it pass.

29:29 Why do you think my love Christmas so much because it brought us all together.

29:34 And it'll give you heart. I know she just love to give and in.

29:41 Oh my God, she would give to you know, I can remember.

29:46 Sean dating some girl who she just met, you know, maybe a week and a half before Christmas and Christmas Eve. She's got so I have to get someone so something it's Christmas and you know

30:00 Would never leave anyone out.

30:04 She is she had she did have crispy no good. Christmas is her stuff growing up. They were

30:13 She had a present some things that I don't know why at the scale she just loved it. She would forfeit that did to her shot, but it was all.

30:25 It was all wonderful.

30:28 I think all of us have had a hard time.

30:34 Replicating mom trying to be the kind of mother. She was you thought they come closest are the things that you consciously do.

30:45 2

30:47 Try to recreate what Mom gave us when I first got married and had the children. Yeah that I constantly that won't walk with Mountain Dew or is if Mom wasn't there to ask her and I would raising the children. It was mom like I mean

31:05 No, doubt it, right. I consciously kept mom.

31:09 And what you were doing?

31:16 I think the one thing I wanted to go back with Mom with Mom's education and her struggles in school important thing that I don't want to leave out about her that she did in the contribution. I think to

31:30 Society and Junior High School

31:34 And her Civic class

31:36 They had to it was their job to find something to do for the community for their grade and

31:44 Her and six other girls in her classroom went to Jersey City Medical Jersey City City Medical Center and approached the hospital and set up a volunteer program in the hospital to deliver flowers to at that time to deliver flowers to the room.

32:04 And you say you a book cart to deliver books to the rooms?

32:10 The class teacher has a boca material that she gave to the girls and the girls made these uniforms out of this material and the material was pink and white stripe.

32:24 And they call themselves candy stripers.

32:27 So they your mom and six other classmates in the 7th grade were the original the first candy stripers and they named themselves. And the reason for the candy stripers because of the pink and white material that was donated to them. This was in 1947. It was and it was at the East Junior High.

32:53 In East Orange, New Jersey. I know Mom was always very proud of that and and

32:59 Capri special thing. Is there anything about Mom that you think none of us knows about?

33:09 Wow.

33:13 Any secret that you might have been told that is okay to tell.

33:21 No, I

33:24 And I don't have any secrets about her.

33:28 Because when I don't keep secrets if I know something you're going to know it or no.

33:39 Is there anything else you can think of it? You want to say that Mom?

33:47 Oh God, it's just what an incredible still have the grandchildren.

33:54 What do you see in the grandchildren that remind you of mom?

34:01 Mine are different because mine got to be raised with them. They

34:07 From the time they were born they were with her.

34:12 But in all honesty even those shoes close to mine.

34:16 Daily, she showed no favoritism when the any of them were around they were number one and they felt that way they never and I don't think any of that. I know that you are weak urine.

34:30 Would have liked to have had your children around her daily, but no jealousy or the kids were not and none of the kids have never felt. She had 11 only grandchildren. Exactly. Exactly. That's true. I think of that.

34:46 I think Callum has her eyes may be the only one of the grandchildren to giving Joshua. Probably Josh was so much like Mom and that ended just to care for a nothing.

34:57 Everything's okay just to just be good and then you to maybe nothing worry, sir.

35:06 Yeah, that was a big gum.

35:09 Betrayed of moms to just not worry cuz she was also real prideful to she was very proud of her family ever family and no one would know and this was one of her things if no one will know I didn't have two nickels to rub together that came from her mother she got that from her mom.

35:28 Pill that that was important to her.

35:34 How do you say she felt when dad died? I mean, it's obvious that she's very upset but

35:40 I think after the that last year with Daddy being sick that it was.

35:47 It was difficult, but

35:51 Something tells me she knew it wouldn't be long before she was with him. Anyway, even though there was no physical indication and I think she

36:01 She knew and she died just two years after he did so.

36:06 A my theory is that

36:11 Even though she really wanted to live in wanted to be with her grandchildren. I really just feel that she she did her part with them. She wanted to she devoted her after Sean. Was she devoted her. You know that totally devoted to dad even though we thought we were

36:30 The white of her lies and stuff like that it was

36:35 Her true partner last year the year that that we knew that she was had the cancer and was dying.

36:46 How would you describe that? How would you describe how she handled?

36:51 I don't think she acknowledged it to herself, but she was sick as sick as she was.

36:58 And especially the last maybe 2 months.

37:01 Or we saw her physically failing. She never thought I don't think she really thought she was dying.

37:10 That was the impression. I got to I really felt that she yum. This was going to pass.

37:16 I think that was to $0.30 with us as well. But I do remember that when the doctor told her 9 but when she asked how long and the doctor told her nine-month, I do remember a month on the 10th month. She says well, I showed him and she loved to hear.

37:32 She was pretty proud of that too. But she showed him she was do you think the fact that she didn't want the do not resuscitate order. Do you think that that was?

37:44 That was difficult for me. It was hard cuz she didn't want that.

37:50 But yet Daddy did Daddy would have been wanted to be hang on and keep fighting. I think it was all just

38:01 She's willing to just go when it was meant and when it was time, and she wanted to go.

38:09 What do you think about her wanting to to have the priest there?

38:16 I know I've been if I'm angry that one's that ones.

38:21 I don't know. I never want to I'm glad she didn't know they didn't give her the last right but we did.

38:30 What do you want to go there? I mean that's that's enough. I just wondered if you think it would have been okay with her anyway.

38:41 I think she was she was fine. She did that before she really got bed with written anywhere. She made her peace. And in fact, I know she did the Rosary every night. She did say, yes.

38:54 I didn't know that.

38:59 Said the person have to be there.

39:04 Anything else

39:14 There's no shoes. Wonderful and I miss her.

39:22 Any jokes you can remember.

39:26 She told me oh my gosh, I can't fit. It was a very very

39:35 She heard at Oregon and then that's okay Mom. She would have been able to tell it right anymore, but she told it to me because it was one that I'm married.

39:48 Person with no poet. She was hurting all attachment that you were. Yes, she she gave me that that I was an adult now I could hear this joke, so she told it to me and I remember saying oh my God, I can't believe you said that was vulgar thing I've ever heard a lot when she said you're right. No don't tell until that sitting here later three years older than I am.

40:20 That's pretty funny. That is wrong.

40:25 She's very naive very naive person but very

40:30 Generous

40:35 That was funny.

40:39 Thank you. Thank you.