Pauline Kreider and Brian Kreider

00:04 Hello, my name is Brian Crider and I'm 58. I used to be 57. Today's date is the 9th of November 2006 where in the Baltimore location of storycorps and I'm interviewing my mother Pauline Crider turn over to you.

00:26 Well, do you want me to say my name and age? My name is Pauline Crider and I am 91.

00:37 I don't know today's date 9th of November 9th of November.

00:44 Baltimore we are in Baltimore.

00:47 My partner is my son one of two there. He's a twin.

00:54 I have four Sons, okay.

01:00 Call before we begin tell me about your fourth who are your four Sons, but my oldest one is quite a musician and his name is David. Kryder. The next to him is the Twins and you are one of the Bruce and Brian you are Brian.

01:16 And the youngest one is Jimmy.

01:20 Jimmy Crider James Grider what else? That's it. I guess you know David's about what it is early 60s Bruce and I are 58 and Jimmy's probably what he's flux 16 is 10 years younger than David that make you better make some about 52, I believe. Okay. Alright, let's see. Let's begin and tell me what you remember is your earliest memory.

01:52 I don't remember much about my earliest memory. I know that I remember seeing pictures on me as just a little girl. I'm about two or three.

02:02 I was kind of lonely because my other sister's World a bit older than I

02:08 I don't remember anything at that early age actually just came from a family of all boys to all girls all girls that are for girls in my family and though I had four boys.

02:20 And the names of your four sisters.

02:24 The oldest was Helen and then Marcelo and then Vera.

02:30 And you were the baby.

02:35 Tell me what was like your earliest memory. Let's look this Jump Ahead to when your 10 or 11 you lived in the

02:42 In a house in tell me where you were from your from, Lebanon, Pennsylvania.

02:48 Sort of the Pennsylvania Dutch community

02:51 But well-known

02:54 Tell me about the house where you used to live in Lebanon.

02:58 Welders in Saraland Lebanon or which one you want on your about? 12 years old tell me about was it wasn't a pleasant place was it was it scary or no. Now you're getting down to the one when I was very young when I wanted to sleep with my sister and I was afraid I think I got that for my grandmother who was very superstitious and very afraid of everything she and so I imagine that the wallpaper in my room the pictures of the flowers look like hexes and at that time, they talked a lot about hexes and things like that with your very superstitious. We don't do that now course, but what do you want me to tell I slept with my sister Vera we had a big old house was that used to say it was haunted. It was over a hundred years old when my father bought it and when it's very squeaky stair way going all the way from the attic down to the basement.

03:56 And that alone when you heard something coming down or thought you heard something with enough to scare you at night.

04:03 So what did your father do for a living on a mobile dealer after he moved Lebanon originally, he was a farmer he lived in the country is born in the country, but he was selling cars now. That was the last thing you did remember a story about him wanting to learn to teach you to drive and you went to visit to the farmers. Well, there were several. He wasn't the first to take me up his mechanic took me off and then the next thing I know my dad had a new car to deliver. What kind of car was that? Remember how Dodge heater he sold Dodge and he wanted me to drive at night. I haven't even driven alone before so he insisted I take the wheel and he's had a side of me. We went way out into the country someplace and when I got there all these Farm people were standing along the building and along the form and he said now I want you to turn around I said we'll never did that will just pull up and then pull over and

05:03 Give me all kinds of directions which confused me. Finally. He said now back then I backed around and I got to face them all further down. There was another barn with a young group of young men that helped we're standing there and he's not step on the gas and pull up over there. Well, I stepped on the gas in that time. The gas was over to the left of the emergency brake was over to the left. I wasn't supposed to be stepping on the gas. I was supposed to be just turning around gently. However, I stepped on the gas by mistake and turned around and headed the other way towards all these young boys that were helping. They were all standing along the Bourne that was on the right and it just kept going faster. I didn't know how to put the brake on cuz I couldn't find the brake and my dad could reach it cuz that time the break was on the left side. It was not where he could get a hold of it and I saw that I was going to run into these boys and I was scared to death. So I thought well, I'll run into that.

06:03 Iron pole that's better than killing the boys so I ran into an iron pole. I smashed the car the whole thing came in. It was a brand new car. My dad was not then even have it registered yet or anything. And of course I smashed the whole front of the car in if they are found here in pole. That's all they didn't get the car. Needless to say. They took their old car and drove us holding it. I wasn't very much hurt think my nose was bashed. My mother was in the back and she got bumped around but no one was seriously hurt, but after that I didn't want to drive. I didn't want to learn to drive and I didn't drive for almost 2 years.

06:47 And that your your father sold cars like Peerless in Pierce Arrow Arrow, Plymouth.

06:57 And Chrysler

06:59 Denise L. A Packard's in Hudson's and Ethel Packard's

07:05 Okay, looking back over your life. Who would you say was the kindest person in your life my mother she has very easy-going.

07:15 And was always good to me when I was at College. He was still a $6 bills into the envelope or she wrote To Me.

07:24 And where did you go to college Beaver College, then? It's not called that anymore. Don't write a Speedway. I don't know but where is it?

07:33 In Jenkintown it was in town is

07:38 Near Philly. Yeah, that's near Philly. Great Towers campus. I lived in the last year. Was there a castle and that was around that General location between Jenkins found Philly. Okay, and your mother was very kind to you when you were going to school. Yes. She was never really ugly or nasty to me ever.

08:01 And your sisters they were all it was easy going. And yes, we didn't fight very much like some people say the only thing I can remember is we were setting the table in my sister Vera got mad about something and threw the salt shaker at me and I threw it back and that was the end of that, but we didn't usually fight about anything but you went off to college know who else in your family went off to college. My second oldest sister Marcella went down to the teacher's college at the near Philly Westchester and went to

08:39 Where you learn to do typing shorthand, all that sort of thing the business college the oldest one never got there because she always had to help take care of us because my mother was more honest and then she was never well and Sohail in my oldest one had to do cooking iron and cleaning and so far. I've been told my dad got a cleaning lady who did all of those chores.

09:03 Tell me about let's see you when you got your college degree from Beaver college that did Marcella get her degree know she and her boyfriend decided to get married and he was at F&M and he quit that they got married instead that don't find who was that?

09:19 Marsala and Melvin Burkholder was his name and what was Melvin studying to be he wanted to be a doctor. I started at F&M, but he only went there one year and she only went to her College one year and then they got married there. So you want to be a doctor? What did he become he wanted to be a doctor? But what did he become a butcher freestyle who was a butcher?

09:47 What was the happiest moment of your life my wedding tell me about my wedding was beautiful the dresses I have for my lady-in-waiting and so forth. We're all pictured in Mademoiselle at up in the window at Worth's store in Harrisburg that time they were beautiful costumes and dresses. They wore back. I thought they were prettier than the bride's gown. We're very nice and it hurt the church was decorated for Christmas because it we were married the day after Christmas never what year was 1940.

10:27 Tell me about your wedding party.

10:30 I didn't have many I had so many friends that I decide the best thing to do is just to pick one and that was very bad. She's no longer living and she was one of my attendants and my sister Vera was my chief attendant and I don't think we had a neighbor. I had a ring bearer. That was my nephew. I had a flower girl who are the assignees. Who are they?

10:57 Judy your day with my niece and Bob Burkholder who would have been the son of the man I was talking about he was a ring bearer.

11:10 And the ushers I'm not sure if I recall of them, but that was the happiest moment of your life. What do remember is being the saddest moment when my husband had to leave to be in the Army. We had a big dinner celebration my aunt came down from Milton and I remember sitting there in his lap and just crying and crying cuz he had to go and he was hoping to be in the band and be back at the Gap cuz we were near there, but he wasn't to his way out to Oregon Washington way out far out there any was he became a first-aid person? He was not he wanted to play in the van, but he didn't get that. You don't care what you want when you go into the army and get whatever they tell you where this was right after this was like 19 42 or 43 around there.

12:03 So he was going more like North I think we were only married in 40. You're married 42 you were married. And so he went off to the Army. And then what condition were you in when you had very pregnant and you know, I didn't have any children before that. And of course like many other people in that were in the war their husbands were drafted in a lot of things and have children and decided to have some that happened with a lot of cases. Anyway, my husband couldn't get a deferment because he didn't have pull I guess you'd say

12:47 There was someone else whose husband was the head of Lebanon Valley College at the time. She was pregnant, but she was she got a she was able to postpone it. So you were pregnant and your husband went off to fight in World War.

13:04 Which war when we just got finished with that was like in 1940s. So he went off to the war and there you are with a baby with David to take care of. Yes. So what was it? Like, well, first of all, I didn't know what I was going to do because at that time we paid $3 a month rent and guy got $30 a month from the Army. I so what I did was I had an apartment on 8th Street. We had an apartment rather and I sublet it to a young couple that had just come back to the Gap and they lived there. Well until God came back, I would say almost I live with my parents for a while and they help take care of David. But when I first brought David home, he simply screaming his head off because I have been rocking him and he wanted to be rocked to sleep and that got to be a lengthy time. So fine in my father who is very good-natured came from

14:04 Call The Crib took him out of the crib and took him back to his bed at all required.

14:10 Wild Quiet on the Western Front

14:14 So your your husband is off in the Army and you're raising a little boy on your own with your parents help. What was it? Like what went through your mind? What were your feelings about your husband and tell me where he went in the service was he oversees tell me about that not right away. First of all, he was out of camps in Washington state of Washington and the state of Oregon with all he was always too far away to get home to see the baby until the baby was about maybe for 5 months old. He was having an operation and he was able to get off to come back to have the opportunity baby baptized and he talked about the way home was so full of army people that trains were so full that were no seats and he laid on the top of the table coming home and a rack of rickety try and also so he came home and saw his little boys.

15:14 They went back to the apartment back and he didn't see him again, I guess until much much later because he after he left the two Army Camps. He was drafted and even though he never had his training. He never had basic training because he had this cyst operation and it had to go anyway, and he was sent actually ended up with Okinawa for one whole month. None of us heard from any of them. And then the headlines in Lebanon Daily News one day it was Easter day and there it was told about the troops are now in Okinawa.

15:55 So that we all knew where he was at least for a whole month, so I hadn't heard from him.

16:00 So what you think about when the van he was in there that that was the final battle. We had really, Okinawa.

16:07 I was just hoping that he would get released and get home and he it was a long time and a very dangerous and terrible time. I mean he could have been killed any minute and I knew that so it's under a lot of tension and by that time David was about to I guess.

16:27 So when Dad and dad's name is guy guy Crider when he came home. How old was David his son was over to

16:40 I guess he was about two and a half maybe three so that had to be pretty rough for both of them. Oh, yes. He wasn't used to Babies R little baby children's. First he was a little rough. Army life is I mean you treated him like it was like four or five years old at first, but we adjusted it took time. It was rough for the little Davey tonight surely one who doesn't listen to me.

17:10 Another thing when I went back to my apartment. I told you I I let it to a young couple from The Gap. She didn't even know how to cook baby. I just been married and several times. I had to go out over there and help her. But anyway, as long as the Gap was going in the war was going they were there when they left I moved back into my apartment and that's when the guy came back. He landed in California the troops did.

17:39 And so then

17:43 I never went out because each time I thought I was going to go out and live out there. They were moved or something. So I didn't I never take that out west to relieve with him.

17:54 But when he came back

17:57 I know that I was very hurt because he stopped to see his mother who lived in Jonestown before he got to Lebanon me to Lebanon. I lived in the third floor of the apartment was and he can't under forget how tired he looked he came up those steps and I was at the door watching the girl who lived across for me who my new well she was watching for him cuz her husband have heart bad and didn't he wasn't in the Army. So we watched him come up the steps very tired. They look like a really worn out guy. He lost his hair when he was in Okinawa and he really aged at any rate. He came up the steps to a time and looked up at us and I don't think the girl was thinking that lived across from me that she knew him too and she rushed down to greet him and give him a kiss.

18:53 Before I can get them.

18:56 So I was very perturbed about that. But finally he came home.

19:04 I forget you're not supposed to make noise.

19:07 So, you know, he came home and you got your finally together. Yes, and he only thought he used to teach he taught another half year and then he was offered a lot more money at Sprecher's he became a manager and was in charge of all the trucks got cars and so far. Okay, so we got moving. Okay. What was it like, I guess you and and your firstborn David were talking about you had a special relationship probably more so than then you had with your other Sons because you all just had each other. That's what was that like, well, I became very very attached to him naturally because I had him all the time. We took care of it all the time.

19:51 And he was a very bright little boy and when he was about two and a half or three I sent him to kindergarten because there was no one on the third floor of our part with no children that he could play with so I sent him to what was called Mrs. Rowlands kindergarten at the time.

20:08 What was that? Like I was very nice. She called me and said that he was way ahead couple years ahead of himself. It was so bright. I was ahead of himself, huh the first grade and then he sat in the last seat of the row and his teacher was very old to begin with, you know during the war we had to take the teachers and the nurses week at we couldn't be too choosy there weren't many but at any rate he went there and he did real well, but then when you got the first grade all of a sudden he couldn't see

20:45 And so we took him to the eye doctor and he said yes, he has been eyes. Yes. I have glasses. This is first grade and the lady that taught them. She was very old. She should have been retired. She put them in the back seat. That's why he couldn't see the board from where he was that's got taken care of it got glasses then you wear glasses.

21:07 Tell me about we talk about World War II time not in the 1940s and 1950s early 50s. What was what were some of the hardships that people don't experience today that you experience back there in Lebanon?

21:24 Remember some of the other things that the war made difficult for you money for gas to drive around and the car she wasn't getting a lot when he started out at Sprecher's he did later. Also, there were many things that all of us had to do without what was it butter and different sugar there were things that were scarce during the war and I knew I wasn't the only one so I didn't think about it much and we tried to send the package to God when he was in the the war caps before he went Okinawa the things that's got there were never very good. They're all brake broken up cookies and so forth, but we did right back and forth from my aunt letters to read. What was it like to wait for the letters coming from your husband in Okinawa coming.

22:21 The mail was very slow.

22:24 That's really.

22:26 And you just waited and waited and hope to hear from him and likewise. He said he didn't think of that. I wrote often enough because you didn't get enough leftovers.

22:36 But the mail is very slow being delivered, but that was the only connection you had.

22:43 You mean David or what? You mean you and guy yeah.

22:47 Well one time he called and David was not too yet and David had such a bad cold and he said how are you and David said?

22:56 That's a good I remember that very well. It's so he said it had a bad cold can already talk.

23:03 But I also had a nice little restaurant just a few doors from where we lived and I used to take you in there lots of times to eat so I didn't have to do much cooking.

23:16 So he was pretty brave little boy, but people were for instance. I went and bought a stroller for him and I left it outside and at that time our building had Western Union was one of the offices in it and Carpenter's drugstore. They're not there anymore that old buildings gone, but

23:37 He

23:38 I don't know what to say. I mean he just enjoyed going to this other place to eat and sound high chair that time.

23:46 And everybody was very kind to women. We have a lot of fun tell me about the time that you remember the he was going to cross the alley or something. Oh, yes when he went to kindergarten. I used to take him up to get the bus in the morning on one side of the street and when he came back he was in the other side.

24:09 And so I used to go up and meet it, but I only went as far as a blocked before that and as I saw him coming.

24:19 Here I had told him to look there was an alley between 8th and 7th and he had to cross out Ali and that was a busy one. A lot of trucks went through that alley. I had brought him to always stop and look so when he did he was so anxious to see me. He came running down the first part of the payment until he got the valley and he went straight across didn't look at all met me and he had a great big paper in his hand which turned out to be a valentine he had made for me. And so anyway, he ran straight across didn't look and he said so by the look on my face that I didn't approve so he ran back again didn't look again, but he ran back to the other side came back again.

25:03 And didn't look again and said look at the pretty Valentine I have for you mother and he was and then I looked across and I said you didn't look before so then he goes back over into the other side head doesn't look but then before he came back, he looked or side-to-side came back, but I sent that with a little story I wrote and it will install I won first prize for so I did things like that. I was very busy. I went to a woman's Club. I belong to the harmonia which is the music called and my mother was very good about tending Dave. So I was able to do all those things during the war. How old was David when that little story happened.

25:47 I think he was just about three three or four I guess about 4 and he walks home from kindergarten. Yeah only part of the way and then I'd meet him I had to cross a busy street to come over to where I was.

26:01 Okay, let me ask you have any words of wisdom that you would like to pass along to your son's.

26:13 Well, no, but I can say I had wonderful Sons you're one of them, but I mean, I really have four wonderful son. So I don't think the war affected them.

26:26 I mean after he came home then we had twins another one.

26:31 He came he was raised in the farm. Where is you were raised in the city when she write your different lifestyle is we didn't always agree. You're right.

26:40 What were some of the differences that came out money? He never got more than a nickel to spending the time and I my mother spoiled me she'd give me wanted to get the candy and ice cream or whatever. I want to.

26:53 But during the war of those things are all scares. So you had friends like Betty and and people you meet at the drugstore about that meeting your friends for ice cream. Will Betty my friend. Betty's father was sellers drug store. He had the drug store. And so whenever we went to sellers with that a we got free ice cream my whole crowd of friends because he gave it to us.

27:19 She had a whole crowd of friends gang. You were very popular, huh?

27:26 No, I don't. I'm not going to say I'm very popular but I was very involved in activities. And as I said my parents were very good about keeping the children.

27:38 Remember what year you graduated from college?

27:42 I made it in English.

27:45 Minored in German

27:49 And minor in biology

27:52 They're all things I substituted in for years and then I did get a job teaching English.

27:59 And then my parents kept him and then for a while at a babysitter.

28:06 Who in your life has been they've been the biggest influence?

28:10 Influence storage what just towards you just could you look up to who you admired in your life food in the biggest influence?

28:20 Well, I liked all my kids. I thought they were all great. I wasn't impressed with David. Of course. He's he won a scholarship and studied in Europe the great pianist now, he's still playing many places, right?

28:34 But you all were pretty good at something too.

28:39 I can't complain about my boys. I don't think the war ruined them nor David. What are you proudest of in your life's accomplishments? What are you proudest of I was a singer and I still like to sing but I've had trouble with my throat lately. I like to sing. I I sang in the choir for about 60 years.

29:02 You were more than just a singer You Were The Soloist?

29:07 It was enjoyable. Yes. I love to sing.

29:12 I also did play is I was in drama did a lot of drama.

29:19 Tell me about the did you ever have like a a part in a play that was?

29:25 Took a lot of tests. We did Papa is all and I with Mama and I was never off the stage through the full 3x. I had I could learn them. I can't remember.

29:38 What was Papa is all like I was at the Pennsylvania Dutch play. If you have never heard of it, a lot of people have seen it and know it.

29:47 And you would one of the lead roles tell me about that. I was mama had the lead role.

29:52 Well, I enjoyed doing it though. It was funny. It was really funny and I use the accent of Pennsylvania. He was a little taste of a accent want to know.

30:04 Tell me more tell me more of that accent about what the story of Papa is all about what Papa was very cruel and the mother and the son that they had that you wouldn't allow anything. Of course. They don't know. I mean they were they were Amish and they didn't allow telephones or anything like that in their place. They were very very strict with her children. So what kind of accent did you use for the play? I tried to use a Dutch accent just like I did a minute ago when I talk to you. Well, let's hear some more.

30:42 Well, I can say anything in a duchy fide way. If you tell me what to say describe a few few things about the play that were funny and do it in a Dutch accent of the funniest thing was when Elvis died in a Dutch accent.

30:57 Well, I can't this Elva Risser and I sang some Christmas things. It came It Came Upon a Midnight Clear that glorious thing of old broad like that and every night when Papa was still there before he got away when he went up to bed. He would call down and say goodnight mama and I would say goodnight Papa and that was all the talkin we did together, but it was funny. I mean it was a funny play.

31:30 I'm sure a lot of people have seen it.

31:33 Yeah, it's a it's a it's a vernacular sort of story from the Pennsylvania Dutch area.

31:40 What's it like being Pennsylvania Dutch?

31:43 Well when I went to college they corrected my accent. I took I took a public speaking and they were always correcting the way you say blond and time is correct. But they say we say blond and pond very broad all the way you talk and the way you think do you think the president. You're Dumber or Ohno? I think they're wonderful people.

32:13 Pennsylvania Dutch is not really Dutch. Is it German it slow part of Germany where there was a certain section. I guess you called it low German or something who use that accent Germans didn't all speak. I study German to and that was very much High German was very different from the way. We talked but around Pennsylvania infections. We were in they just speak very like I did a while ago very Dutch took a swig of water.

32:50 When you grew up your parents spoke a language, they spoke and you give me a taste of that Pennsylvania Dutch. Tell me just say something a dozen and tell me an English what you said?

33:04 Who wants little do Westfield to do two Dutch Sprecher?

33:12 Saying can you talk touch? I'm just saying to you.

33:18 The feel Constitution reckon, how much can you talk in Dutch?

33:25 I think that's enough. It's

33:28 It's just German and the lowest form of it. And then Dad said that was funny when Dad came back. They were in California. That's where they herded them until they were ready to dismiss him. And he there were a lot of German prisoners there that it and send over here and he tried to speak Dutch to them since they call it Dutch and they just look blank.

33:54 Then he tried the Pennsylvania Dutch on them and then they smiled and said now we know what you're talkin about. They were from the section of Germany and other words. That was Dutch.

34:05 So he got along with him and then after that.

34:09 Supposed to be Duchess not really Dutch.

34:12 It's a poor form of German. That's what it really is.

34:17 Can you tell me one more thing in Pennsylvania dutch?

34:20 Tell me you say the sentence.

34:25 Well now we must go do our jobs do our chores. Say that this with a Dutch accent.

34:32 Bill know he was going to let yours.

34:37 And that's pretty much how the Amish still talk isn't it and any Mennonites in that part of the sad part of, Pennsylvania?

34:45 So you originally from the Wheatland area, which is Lancaster county. Is it weird for your father is?

34:52 My father was from around Hopeland, which is in what county it's like there's Lancaster County and then there's the part where they lived.

35:08 I don't know which is which real in Mount Airy and the accents differ.

35:15 So when you went off to Beaver College your accent was

35:19 So it was not bad. I just like I said those words blond and pond you had to learn in speech class. You had to learn to say blond and pond and you know softer its softer less questions. How would you like to be remembered?

35:37 As someone who could get along with most people I have no trouble getting along with where I am now with all the girls over there.

35:47 I am I where are you? Where are you? They don't know where you are. You have to tell us.

35:55 Well, I don't Cornwall Cornwall Manor. I didn't know what you meant. Yes. I live in Cornwall Manor which is a group of of people women and men mostly women though.

36:07 Are all about your age.

36:10 No, there is summer older summer Young.

36:14 So you have a good time?

36:16 Stop bad. I'd rather be in my own house.

36:22 It's as good as I guess that type of place can can be.

36:28 Was there anything else you want to add?

36:32 Anything we didn't talk about.

36:36 All I can think of something right now. We had we have a good I have a very good family and I think that I have a wonderful family. Not just my boys, but my relatives I've never run up against any hostility or anything between you and my relatives who are all very good. My oldest son has two daughters. They have children who are cute and

37:07 I'm sorry. I have a habit of movie. Thank you very much.

37:16 All right, that's it Mom. Okay.