Teresa DeLongchamp and Matt Workman

Recorded May 8, 2009 Archived May 8, 2009 01:34:28 minutes
0:00 / 0:00
Id: MBX005266


Teresa DeLongchamp (48) by her biological son, Matt Workman (32). Teresa gave MAtt up for adoption as an infant. Teresa and Matt were reunited for the first time the night before this interview (5/7/2009) Teresa and Matt talk about the reunion and ask questions about each others lives. They are in the process of getting to know one another for the firs time.

Subject Log / Time Code

Teresa’s childhood
Teresa remembers being a teenager and her pregnancy at 15
Story about her mom seeing stretch marks on her and knowing she was pregnant.
Teresa remembers giving Matt away in the hospital
Teresa and Matt talk about their first phone call
Matt tells story of first phone call
Teresa is thankful to Matt’s adoptive parents
Mathew’s parent were ambivalent about having him meet Teresa
M tells T about growing up - he’s had a wonderful life
M and T talk about their first meeting last night, it felt natural
This experience has been a huge relief for Teresa


  • Teresa DeLongchamp
  • Matt Workman

Recording Location

MobileBooth East


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00:07 I'm Teresa de Longchamp Shadwell and I'm 48. Today's date is May 8th 2009 and we are at the Lincoln Center, New York New York and I am the biological mother to Matt Workman.

00:24 And I am Matt Workman.

00:27 Biological son. I am 32 I believe today is May 8th how we are at the Lincoln Center storycorps in New York, New York.

00:45 All right.

00:47 So, where should we begin?

00:50 Give a question for me. That would be great.

00:55 Well, how about we go way back before you were pregnant with me? What was your childhood? Like I was born in Indiana and I had three older brothers. I have a sister that's 4 years younger than me. So we lived in Indiana had a like a cornfield backyard that we would go back and play in.

01:23 We moved to Michigan when I was six and Waterford area and it was there went that. I lived in my grandma's house the house that my dad grew up in him and his grandpa his father had built in the house in the family know when my grandmother passed away. It was sold. So what live there for a few years and my parents divorced when I was ten and that's when we moved to West Bloomfield my mom and my three brothers and my sister was pretty hard upbringing at that point because my dad pretty much left the family and we just we didn't have a whole lot.

02:08 In the way of

02:10 Money clothing things like that, but we we were very close family and

02:20 So I asked we stayed there for chili and that's the last house we lived in grew up there and

02:31 I was always kind of person that they had a single friend it seem like it is the best friend and would always hang tight with my best friend and

02:42 Junior High School

02:44 You know, I was sick pretty insecure. So I didn't enjoy School lot I did okay, but my mom worked full time so I couldn't really get it any extracurricular things because I wouldn't have the transportation. So that was that was hard for me. But I was always a very competitive person and like I I can recall in like in gym class. I was able to Excel and set some school records and things safer hurdle jumping or 50 yard dash or whatever and because I had older brothers as very competitive. So I

03:26 I did well with that stuff and then aged 15 your 915 and yes, you would been I think you said you were dating I had to Tim was my boyfriend for probably a year-and-a-half maybe more. He's my brother Steve's best friend and

03:47 Yeah, you know when you're that young you don't really understand the full impact of your actions and the consequences of what can occur and yeah, so 6 months later when I discovered I was pregnant if there was a big decision to be made and my mom was

04:08 Kind of embarrassed about the situation hurt me on being a single mom and her daughter getting pregnant. So at that point I

04:17 We thought we talked and I agreed that I would give the baby up for adoption and without agreement then my mom found a place for me to live at Marillac Hall are in Southfield. And so I stayed there and finish the remainder of the school year. They offered classes there and their basement. I can remember taking like within that 3 months. I was there two or three years worth of typing classes cuz I which is on the basement at night and just type in type and type of way. I also like Ceramics and sewing and that it was a very crafty place to be I learn to crochet a crocheted several afghans.

04:55 That also was on the non-identifying information to buy the way they are Afghans the crocheting or

05:05 There are a lot of

05:08 Unwed mothers there. It was interesting there was probably when I was there maybe 15 others and we didn't only live there we worked there so we would work in the kitchen doing dishes or we would be vacuuming the library or you know, so that we kind of had to help.

05:24 Pepper on there and it wasn't a bad place to be. Can you remember if you're not comfortable? Remember when you first approached your mom or how that happen when you realize that you might be pregnant? Yeah, it's kind of a funny story. I didn't approach her at all.

05:45 In our bathroom when we were done showering we were supposed to wipe down the wall. So I had to tell her after I mean I was wiping down the wall and the back of the tile fell off and she saw stretch marks on my back my lower back and I was always a very thin person. So when she said that she sensed that something wasn't right. So she made an appointment with the doctor and we talked and

06:13 She made a point with the doctor and

06:16 And that's when it all all he had to do was listen to my stomach because at that point I was six months long and he can hear your heartbeat. So your heartbeat.

06:31 Yeah, there was a was a

06:33 He was very mean to my mom and made her feel pretty humiliated about it.

06:38 The doctor it wasn't the best situation and he blamed her because she was a single mom and shouldn't have time for us.

06:52 Did you ever have conversations with your mom years later?

06:57 About the whole about any of it and very little has she was not a real open person and not easy to discuss things with

07:07 If so.

07:10 Immediately after I I I gave birth to you and decide to give you up for adoption.

07:18 I told her.

07:21 I don't want to give up for adoption. I want to keep them in when I remember that conversation and it didn't go very far and you know it at my young age and her being the sole supporter of five children already wasn't an option and she said you know what we made this Arrangement ahead of time. You have got to stick with your you're and play original plans and

07:42 And I just deal I said, you're right. I agreement we made and

07:46 And as hard as it was I just died understood that it was probably the best thing for everybody.

07:53 I did talk to her years later about it and you know my interest in finding you and

07:58 And I knew I would have to wait to release date teen before I could ever find you and she was always concerned that.

08:06 You just don't know what that's going to bring into your life. You know, it's there could be.

08:13 Bad things related to it. It's it's best just to leave things alone, and she was very supportive of me finding you.

08:23 And I wish you was here today to see what a great person you are.

08:29 You're welcome.

08:43 I was a labor. I'll buy you know, it's funny. I was one of the weekends that I I I begged for her to let me come home. If I remember correctly. My due date was June 1st, and I went into labor must have been the night of May 29th, and I stayed up all night long.

09:03 Timing my contractions and

09:05 So when she woke up in the morning, I told her you know, I've

09:10 Play I think I'm in labor around there 2 minutes apart have been gone all night long. So

09:16 Stuck me in the back seat of the car and drove me into Providence Hospital in Southfield, and I probably labored another.

09:26 I'm guessing maybe another 12 hours and

09:30 It was painful, but you know pain Fades with time so you don't really recall. How painful but

09:40 Another story about how I just how naive I was with it when they actually had to break my water. So I was lying in bed and

09:51 Of course the sheets and got all wet and they wanted to change the sheets so they told me to stand up so we can change the sheets. So, you know she turn around to get to shoot the fresh eats and I'm standing up in the middle of the bed thinking I wasn't supposed to get out of bed. But really she meant you don't get up stand up on the floor while I changed turn around and sees me standing there in the middle of the bed and then almost panicked and then there's did because of course afraid I would fall or whatever. It must have been a funny a funny scene.

10:20 Dentist part of being young and naive mm

10:25 And and

10:28 And then I was born at what time?

10:32 You know, I am thinking it was around 4 in the afternoon.

10:39 And you got to say goodbye to me. You got to hold me. Well not at that moment. They they took you off to the nursery right away, and it was the next morning the nurse came and asked me if I wanted to hold you.

10:52 I'm sure they knew that I was giving you up for adoption and I was grateful that they did that because I really was something else. I didn't realize what my rights were in if I would ever be able to so, of course I said, yes and they brought you to me and they laughed and I just know.

11:10 Are you by yourself with your mother and just looking at your fingers and your face and

11:18 Trying to not get attached because I knew I've always been a baby love her. So I knew it would be hard.

11:26 To hold you and get attached and then I have to give you back then. When did you come up with Anthony Lewis?

11:33 I'm I must have come up with that when I was you know, still expecting it was it was an easy decision because I was my favorite name Anthony and then Lewis seem to fit and it was my dad's middle name.

11:48 And of course, I want to give you the name to Longchamp because

11:51 Tim took no responsibility in his role. I wasn't going.

11:58 So easily

12:01 Give you his last name and family into two doors down from you.

12:09 2 Doors Down yes three doors at that time. But I've I move one house over which is where I currently live his parents still live two doors down now.

12:21 And still awkward. You said it is awkward when I see him. I it's the first gotten better over the years because I've had become much more confident person and when you speak to him once in awhile when he's home, you know, I I don't recall the last time I saw him. It's been many years.

12:43 I don't know if you two still lives in, Michigan.

12:48 So skipping ahead a little bit.

12:52 To the present

12:55 What?

12:58 What surprises you most about me now in the few short hours at weave, you know, what surprised me most when I first saw you with strong similarities physical characteristics that you have my other children and how you and Alex looks so much alike. You know, if I only was looking at your eyes that you'd be twins. Yeah, and you got down the full lips and just a lot of different features and in the Heights.

13:28 Theme sex 3 is exactly as how tall he is. So it just your physical characteristics that surprised me also a year.

13:40 How far you've gone with the your musical Talent?

13:45 And I haven't yet witnessed it but just listening to what you've said that you do and that's

13:53 Very impressive to me.

13:56 And I've always loved to sing myself, but I

14:00 I never been brave enough to actually sing by myself in front of anybody unless the radio is going I've had many people tell me I have a good singing voice, but it's just nothing that I've ever developed. Well, maybe if we have time at the end of this we can sing a couple Tunes.

14:21 And for the record, I've I've seen photos of alexson and he's a good-looking guy. So

14:38 How about mannerisms? Yes. I was watching the way you were rubbing your chin last night and some of the things that you did and it's just the way you do you move there's I see similarities with you and Alex definitely not so much with my daughters, but I think that's a difference between male and female, you know.

15:03 New voices are similar you both get the deep voice.

15:11 Any questions off the top of your head now, I ran out of questions nothing at the moment, you know, I

15:20 I hope that our meeting would would lead to you no future relationship in you meeting my children. Are you interested in meeting them?

15:31 I know they're interested in meeting you as well.

15:35 I think it would be a lot of fun.

15:39 It would be I can't do anything else other than strange meeting them. Really when the first time you told me that you had children it was.

15:56 There's a deep pleasant surprise.

16:01 And huge curiosity about these half-siblings that I have.

16:09 I grew up with the an older brother 5 years older.

16:14 Not the closest relationship, but

16:20 But he's my brother down the last with great memories.

16:27 But always had an interest in having siblings, especially sisters to to mentor and and be there for you another common characteristic. That is so strong. I didn't mention is your sensitivity and your soft-spoken. Yeah even

16:55 Being a man and having a deep voice to speak softly and that tends to be something that

17:03 Nicean myself my kids but the sensitivity Alex has always been a very

17:12 Very caring and concerned about other people's feelings and I sent that a new also.

17:18 I heard a gentle soul.

17:22 But right

17:25 What what fears did you have? If any before you initially called me?

17:35 Give me when I was giving your phone number when I finally got it. They had absolutely no fear.

17:41 It was like finally, I finally got a way to contact him was like all these years have gone by and what was it like 30 years. There was no hesitation. I hung up with Phil and immediately dialed your number and

17:58 I was so happy when you answered and I had no clue what I was going to say. I had nothing rehearsed it. So it just was hi. I'm Teresa and I I believe I'm your biological mom. Do you remember the date?

18:12 No, I don't remember the day. Do you know I like all I can remember is it was a Tuesday Morning in November? I know it was about 10 in the morning and I'm sitting at my desk and my phone rang.

18:28 The caller ID came up all zeros, and I've never seen that before and I usually don't answer the phone when I don't know who it is.

18:38 But I was just so curious so I picked it up and I

18:41 I said hello and this man with a deep voice at is this Matt Workman? I said, yes. May I ask who's calling?

18:50 And click and hung up. That would have been a little scary and that was scary.

19:00 Yeah, my first thought was

19:02 Who's looking for me?

19:05 And

19:07 My biological mom was the last thing unless person in my mind and then two minutes later another call came in. It was 248 area code so immediately knew it was, Michigan.

19:21 And I assume that whoever is calling at that time had to do with the person before and I actually then I started thinking that it could be my biological mom or dad.

19:37 More more so elect more likely biological mom. And so I picked it up and that's when you said

19:47 Is this Matt? I think I'm your biological mom and I looked at the phone and I said is this your number that I can call you back the can I call you? Can I give you a call back? I need time to think about this I believe is what you said.

20:06 And and I had to go for a walk. Are you afraid at that moment? Were you afraid of meeting me or are we just was such a rush rock your world so to speak but Bill said really rocked his world.

20:26 And the more I thought about it, I became a little frustrated with.

20:33 With the the fact that you just called me just real straightforward like that.

20:42 And

20:44 You get of course. I didn't realize how you went about getting my information or or that you were.

20:52 You didn't have my information that you had to find it. I contacted Catholic Social Services and ask them if if you have been in touch with them and they told me the story so.

21:08 Initially, I was I was a little disappointed but when you told me then at some point after that that you

21:19 You know your excitement and and hoping that I wasn't disappointed that you waited so long that 30 years to contact then it then it all made sense. And I was a lot more comfortable with everything and and and you wrote me subsequent letters one long when I remember when I was living in Forest Hills.

21:44 Were you a handwritten letter explaining?

21:49 The circumstances around in pregnancy and and

21:57 And your desire and interest in contacting me, so

22:03 You still have that letter?

22:06 And the end the birthday card

22:09 The photos

22:14 Yeah, I thought they would be interesting to send of your baby photo well.

22:22 I was some I had the opportunity to buy first born photos when I was at the hospital after I gave birth. So I guess I have a little scrapbook and there's

22:40 Are two pages with their information on it?

22:43 And there was a lot of little Indian different size photos. So it's just made up of all the different photos. So I pulled one out of there to send you.

22:54 When when was the first time that you told your children about me?

23:01 I was roughly a deer mm.

23:06 Alex was

23:08 11 or 12

23:11 Yeah, they were they were pretty young, but I thought they were old enough to understand.

23:17 And I just wanted them to hear it from me rather than hear it from somebody else and not get the right context of the situation. So we were all sitting down looking through just looking through information the three of us sitting on the sofa together and something sparked the conversation and I I told him all about it. They were very curious and excited to think that they had a brother out there that they didn't own.

23:49 And I know there.

23:53 Consider you their brother said that to me several times and I are excited to meet you and I and the rest of my family as well and my sister or my my three brothers.

24:06 I know that when you're ready to meet them. They would love to meet you. I've got a big family.

24:13 And I think they all.

24:15 I would embrace you.

24:18 You probably would be something down the road when you're ready.

24:23 That I think I mentioned last night. That was one of the

24:30 One of the reasons one of the things that was preventing me from

24:35 Communicating much and

24:40 Dolphin with you at first was I knew they're there was there could be this great potential for a relationship and closeness and almost family liking and I wasn't sure how I felt about that and I died talked to a lot of people and

25:04 It says it's interesting.

25:09 To think about that potential in no way. Is it replacing what you have is just adding to it and

25:21 And I know that you've said you had a great upbringing and your parents are wonderful people and and I'll give them.

25:29 My heartfelt. Thanks for doing such a wonderful job with you and

25:36 And I certainly don't want to be a threat to them or to you and it just adding to what you've already got in your life not replacing anything. Thanks for saying that and that's was there with the biggest reason is I felt that I needed to have that have that conversation with my parents before we did meet before I really felt it before the need to have that conversation before we even got into communicating very much whether on the phone or an email.

26:19 And they came and visited me one one weekend here in New York, and I had a limited conversation with my dad.

26:30 He expressed.

26:34 Little bit of disinterest, which honestly I expected because I knew growing up growing up. He was uncomfortable with that topic.

26:48 And I was sent growing up. My mom was a little more understanding about it. She would explain explain to my brother and I that you know that they

27:03 Them being ones that raised us as if we are their children and that they're necessarily may not be a need to be in touch with our biological parents.

27:19 And I'm so that after that conversation with my dad.

27:24 I shied away from talking to my mom or or any further about it with my dad. So.

27:37 I do have an interest in having that conversation with my mom though at some point.

27:43 At some point that I'll come out and I am optimistic about it. Did you feel like there was just a little something missing not knowing or having met your biological parents.

27:59 Yes, but only only after talking about it with people more and more.

28:09 I learn

28:14 Through these discussions with with friends and

28:19 About their relationship with their parents that there is a there is something to be said about blood relatives and

28:30 And so it is

28:38 Created this curiosity and then

28:42 I did feel like there was something.

28:47 Nothing is really something missing but have potential for gaining quite a bit and

28:55 I think that maybe even learning more about myself.

29:01 I remember you telling me that one of your most burning questions was what?

29:06 Her nationality are

29:10 I've always had an interesting and family background genealogy and it's something that you just had no clue of how it would be very frustrating that interest.

29:26 So, you know now that scots-irish french-canadian is the strongest.

29:35 Heritage that I can mention I I generally tell people it's it's more like a Heinz 57 mixed because there's such a mixed but I believe those are the strongest

29:52 So whenever that question came up growing up, you know what your background where were you? Where is your family from? I just you know, I adopted my parents genealogy is it was mine and was it similar at all to what my dad's side is is from Eastern Europe Croatia and my mom's side is UK.

30:22 So I might be a little similarity there.

30:32 So tell me about you you're growing up. You know, that's something I've always been curious about of course because I missed out on all that all those years and

30:41 Sorry, I was I was good in school. I was always great at math.

30:51 Didn't really like to read.

30:54 For some reason I do now, but I was just dropped if in class I was a talker comedian type I was

31:03 Not necessarily for the attention, but I just was a mister social like to make people laugh.

31:11 And and then in 5th grade I along with a few other select students were invited to join this special academic program was called the pat program program for academically talented students. So that was a big honor and that went into into Middle School. I was I was friends with just about everyone. I had one or two close friends growing up and

31:54 I don't stay in touch really with the many people from my childhood.

32:02 But

32:05 But I was involving music started with the violin and elementary school and then went to move to the middle school. I I took up the cello and

32:19 Since I was such a talker and I had such a strict teacher she asked me to get to maybe do something else. So that's when I started singing and then the quotient of the choir at the high school came and performed for us. I remember they they sang another languages and it was very exciting and that's why that's what I wanted to do. And so I sang and in high school and loved it and my choir director in high school was was like a mentor like a big brother friend and he recommended I go to Interlochen Arts Camp. So I did that for a few Summers and that when I went to college at Western Michigan, I buy was interested in majoring in music, but I I was kind of stared towards business and and

33:13 Very much appreciated that decision study finance and then I was offered.

33:21 A graduate assistantship, so they paid for my grad school and that was an easy decision. So I stay there and to that.

33:33 The growing up I was always wanting to do whatever my brother did there was a wrestling and then football, but I don't think my parents wanted me to play football. So I don't know. I can't remember that exactly, but then he got into bike racing and I love that. We would go to Waterford Oaks bicycle track and race on Saturdays. I was a lot of fun and then went to HighSchool. I wrestled and wasn't very good wasn't the best.

34:08 But but at night I loved it and and then got involved in the musicals and started doing that. And so I've I've continued singing it's always been something I've enjoyed.

34:25 I personally don't think I have that good of a soloist voice but

34:32 But I enjoy it so.

34:37 What else can I tell you?

34:39 I see a lot of parallels with you and your experiences in appearances that I've had in. My kids have had also with you know, they all played the violin and my one daughter and then play the viola and a cello it all seemed to come very natural for them.

34:59 Love to talk in class and try to make people laugh especially Alex and Brianna.

35:06 You'd mentioned bowling every Saturday morning when you were growing up, right we talked about that last night.

35:12 Yeah, that was some.

35:17 That that that was for several years. Actually II bold.

35:21 And that's what I did grow on them. Also. I mean, it sounds like a nothing thing but as a kid, I absolutely loved it every Saturday morning. So we may have been at Hartfield at the same time Wonderland Lanes. The Hartfield is something that feels pananalig there for years, but I knew that it was in your neighborhood. When his you grew up so I I wanted to mention that to you last night cuz everytime we would drive out there I would

35:49 Think of you

35:51 I work there.

35:55 You work there now.

36:00 Ed said something interesting last night. He said that I necessarily wouldn't be able to settle with the

36:14 I think he was hurt. Referring to the girlfriend, you know future wife until I had met you. He said he always felt that I needed to do that. Then I was missing it's what he saw in me. That's interesting.

36:31 And you know it is he may be right it's hard for me to say.

36:39 But at the same time, I wonder because you were very reluctant to meet me and in a protective way for your mom.

36:48 So I don't know if this'll help with that or not, but

36:55 Be interesting to see

36:59 Last questions

37:06 Well, I I would like to say that I've always been very appreciative that my biological mother gave me up for adoption. I was very lucky with great parents had a very good upbringing and and whenever I was asked growing up and I've been asked hundreds of times. Would you want to meet your biological parents or biological mom and and there was always a nasty but but I've always thought to myself plywood. I'd really like to if I ever did meet her I wouldn't I would thank her. That's what I would do and

37:42 That means not just to show you that I had I've had a wonderful wonderful life.

37:50 That means a lot of brains at all. Full circle, you know after

37:55 It's a very difficult thing to do, you know, give a baby up for adoption. So

38:01 Wonderful. Thank you for saying that.

38:07 And I and it's been a I think this has been a fantastic first meeting and experiencing and I do look forward to two more.

38:20 Could be the beginning of a very good thing I guess.

38:26 It happened for a reason that it took 30 Years cuz you're you're very mature and understanding.

38:32 And I appreciate.

38:35 Meaning me and I can I certainly am very happy to finally see you again.

38:41 And I'm very proud of what you've become.

38:44 Why I appreciate you doing this.

38:50 Having this conversation and then I'm sure we'll look back on it and enjoy I'm impressed that you wanted to preserve it. You know, it meant a lot.

39:01 And maybe

39:04 Your future children will listen to it Wednesday.

39:10 Absolutely, God willing.

39:12 So again, thank you.

39:16 Thank you.

39:19 Set It Off

39:22 What was

39:24 I talked about something about your mom that you didn't expect at all. Talk to her.

39:37 If it's too tough tell me about what what it was like last night. I put your first.

39:43 The first feelings when you saw her become a little or tell her a little bit about last night for you.

39:52 Last night last night went went really well the first meeting we had a great conversation and it was it was in her mixed with just friendship and stories and good food and wine and it was very casual and end to be honest with you. It's it's kind of what I expected. I was as very optimistic and it was everything I hoped for and

40:19 What what what I was little surprise would I would I didn't expect was that?

40:29 I know how a better way to say this. I didn't expect to not be emotional. I guess you know, so.

40:43 So happy that it's almost a sadness and I wasn't overcome with emotion and and I actually expected to but

40:52 But I was but don't take that the wrong way. I was I was very happy and it was think I said a few times it was a strange I needed I needed to absorb everything and I just knew for sure that I would be crying last night, but it was just such a comfortable atmosphere in the conversation just started immediately that there was

41:12 Berlino no opportunity for 40 years and emotion. It was having just more happiness than curiosity and tell me more and I sent that we knew each other already in it it. I truly like it was a very easy evening. I think the conversations we've had leading up and exchange of photos that that was a nice ramp up to our first meeting of us for two years. We have been emailing and talking on the phone and that's been a

41:48 A good Icebreaker. I think that made the meeting go much easier.

41:53 Anything that you didn't expect

41:57 No, I mean he looks exactly like, you know the pictures you just did the big smile the hug I just

42:07 I I I didn't expect the questions and conversation would move as rapidly as it did but it was was very comfortable and I thought we would just kind of be at a loss for words that first and be uncomfortable asking questions, but it just came out and it was no problem. No uncomfortableness.

42:36 No, no because everything I can't remember what my first question was. Everything came out naturally and I don't I don't remember the first either. It was just a casual greeting and I think I'd helped.

42:52 Help move things along

42:56 Ed Ed is a is a very close friend of mine and his dad is close friends with my dad and his grandfather knew my grandfather. So I had that like family and he got to the point that we first made contact Ed was the one that

43:18 I would confide in and then talk to and he'll try and make sense of a lot of this and what I was feeling so add really it was so big.

43:31 Big help for me and he hosted the meeting last night in his home.

43:36 And I had my husband and I are over.

43:40 So we were just meeting up for the first time last night, of course and

43:47 How

43:48 Tell me about finding Matthew Rhys and tell Matthew about my name and how did you decide and then what actually you know for years. I was interested in finding Matt. He was always Anthony to me cuz that's he was named Anthony and I I found an adoption search agency that I was paying yearly dues to in an effort to find Matt and they never came up with any information. So when I kind of gave up on that and I I just felt like I had no rights to finding him. I thought that it was the the adopted child. It would make the decision to find the parent and I was one day driving to school and it was a detour and it took me past Catholic Social Services. So I was sitting there at the light and looking at the building and I decided I need to call them and I picked up my phone and called.

44:48 I'm right at that moment and was able to get through to a social worker there who eventually called Matt house his where he grew up and spoke with Matt's mother.

45:00 And

45:06 Apparently your mom was not thought that you were no longer interested in finding me you up then she said she spoke on my behalf. So that kind of told me indirectly how she felt but

45:20 I think it doesn't that shouldn't necessarily represent how she feels so then when I spoke to Catholic Social Services, she first of all was very excited for both of us social worker was that they only had my college information and or my home information so she did make an effort to contact me and reach out. They couldn't find me and when she told me that you had signed a waiver when you were 18, I was devastated and heartbroken that I had not reached out and and thought how horrible it must have been you for now what 12 years never heard anything from me and after?

46:03 You signing that waiver? And so I figured that there had been a pain of not knowing and not hearing anything and that's why your mom said that you weren't interested because she didn't want any more future English for you. I told you last night.

46:22 Proud to say that that's not the case. I never had any negative feelings ever toward you or or towards the whole situation.

46:35 Not of my biological mom not and there was a huge relief to hear.

46:44 So this is been turned out to be a great trip to New York.

46:49 Your first experiment Tia.

47:04 I would love to.

47:09 Thank you very much, but you