Phyllis Hoovler and Ellen Riggle

00:02 My name is Ellen Riggle. I am 48 the date is June 13th, 2011. We are in Lexington, Kentucky and I am phyllis's daughter and I will be interviewing her today.

00:18 My name is Phyllis. Hoovler. I am 69 years old the date today is June 13th, 2011. We are in Lexington Kentucky and Ellen is my daughter saying you're my mother.

00:37 Will a eat I'm really excited about being here today to talk to you. I signed us up for this and I said we can talk about whatever you want to talk about and I was really excited when you said that you wanted to talk about Grandma Bossard because she is and no offense to you and my father or my brother, but she is like one of my first memories as a child. And so I have this like special feeling and so when you said you wanted to talk about her I was like, oh wow, this will be great cuz I'll learn things about family history. So so we're going to tell you right now I call her grandma boss her butt.

01:23 I call her mamaw, you call her Mamaw and her real name was Laura Mabel Metzger bastard when she married she became bossert Bossard, but she went by.

01:42 She went by Mabel and I have found two spellings on that m a b l e n m a v e l that the the spelling on her. Gravestone is correct, which is Mabel. Okay. Yeah, that would be the more.

02:03 Typical spelling. So now I refer to her as grandma basara. Cuz that was what I always heard her. That was what we kids always called her but she's actually my great-grandmother and in my grandmother right on your mother sides yet. He is your mother's mother and you called her mamaw. Why did you call her mamaw? Because she wanted us to call her mamaw was special to her to be called something other than grandma. She was a very special person. So we called her mamaw. So when was but here we're going to call her grandma will just call her grandma. When when and where was she born. She was born in Clinton County, Indiana on September 12th, either 18.

03:03 87 1892 or 1895 depending on which record floor about why there are different dates. She was sent away to work when she was young. She was sent away to Illinois to the Elgin publishing house and there she met my grandfather Bossard and he was younger than she was and so she didn't want to be older than he was and so she started changing the dates the year of her birth and everything that she could find including this, so she wasn't going to admit older. I know not a bit so that perhaps confused.

04:03 So, why'd she was born? I think sometimes she didn't even know how old she was. Well that seems to run in the family then I now know where that came from.

04:18 So did she grow up in Clinton County? She grew up in Clinton County.

04:27 On the road that we now call the rabbit track, which is 2 miles south of my house. It starts out and then then runs.

04:40 My dad would be East and West so that which is near Rossville and near Rossville, Indiana. Yeah, and so she went to school in Rossville, or she went to school in a one-room school Brick Schoolhouse, which is still standing about a mile from their home place, and I'm hoping it's still standing. I haven't been by recently and I remember you pointing it out to me.

05:12 And she would walk to school except on the very worst days. She would walk to school and how she would know that it was a really really cold day was out her her father would go and harness up the horses and hits them up to the sleigh. If it was if there were a lot of snow or to the buggy if there wasn't and take her to school and then come and get her her and her sisters. So how many siblings did she have? She had five siblings, but only two survived infancy.

05:59 No, only her and two others her and two others so I can infants see two others died. So who are her siblings? Will Harvey was the oldest and he died when he was 24 years old.

06:19 He had just gotten married and he and of course of a few months. He there was some kind of a fever going around and he died and he was supposed to be the Golden Boy of the family. He was going to be the one that you know, I took care of everybody else in their old age and he did not survive which was common back then and then there was a little girl that died when she was a year and 8 months old and I've never heard what she died of it that was knowing back then and then there was Cora and a she died when she was 53 and Arthur David was 9 months old when he died and then IV Katherine and I remember her very, well. That was my aunt Iva and Lynn grade and in this case.

07:19 Grandma

07:24 So Grandma grew up and then she said she was sent away to work in Elgin, Illinois that was coming back. Then she was the youngest right? And this was that was not, they usually send away the oldest to work and then progressively, you know, but for some reason and nobody knows the reason the grandma and grandpa,

07:54 Metzger chose Grandma to go away to work and he had worked at for the Elgin Publishing House in the winter time. He would travel and sell a religious books and bibles and fruit trees. Are you go over all over Illinois and is his region, Illinois, Indiana and Ohio, he would travel and sell.

08:33 Religious books in my fruit trees. Did Johnny Appleseed of a different kind? I don't know. He has the connection to the publishing house and he knew that it was a safe place to send Grandma to work. And so that's where she met Grandpa who had been sent there to apparently to learn typesetting which was his trade for the rest of his life may now he was Benjamin Harrison boxer and where was he born? He was born in, Pennsylvania.

09:12 I was so he was kind of sent far away to work. So his family was still in Pennsylvania. He has far as you know, is he was an only child and when was he born do we know for sure when he was born? Well, actually we don't know exactly either it was either 19 or 1890 to 1893 or 1894. Okay.

09:43 But I think it was easier to depend on him then it was her because I Found Records in the 1910 census and in the 1920 census that say he was 26 years old in the 1920 census. So if we believe that

10:05 So she is so they they met at the publishing house and then they got married and do we know when will we have a date? Okay. Sure. This is true, December 22nd 1911 so that I know they made their way back to Indiana. Where did they in Lafayette that they settled in Lafayette Indiana and we know that they were there by the 1920 census. So it was some time before that they had come back to Indiana and then my mother was born in 1921 am okay, and I believe that my aunt was also born in Lafayette, Indiana, which was 1924 Okay, so

11:06 That's just the kind of the background. So they when they lived their grandpa bossert worked in at Haywood prep Publishing House in Lafayette, Indiana.

11:21 And a grandma work outside the home. We not at that time at that time know when did they would was their move to

11:32 Indianapolis was that it was sometime after 1924 I think soon after 1924. Okay, so that was he he got another job at a publishing house and Indianapolis as a typesetter.

11:55 So when that you were born in 1941 19 41 and what are your earliest memories of Grandma? I do not have any earliest memories. Grandma was just a a person that was just always in my life. So constantly that I can't remember her not being there. She was just always the person that you know was there so now they they must have been living in Indianapolis, but you were born around Rossville, Indiana. I was born of Frankfurt and we lived in Clinton County near Rossville.

12:44 So so she she must have commuted then don't be a long drive back. Then. That's about 50 60 miles dad.

12:59 Especially in the summer time she would make that drive every week really. Wow.

13:06 And in the winter time it was not uncommon for if the weather had broken for her to come and I never remember her and Grandpa making the drive together. They must have at some point in time, but it was always grandma and then came and she came bearing gifts what kinds of gifts one of us really liked and she always had always had things things for us and we love this to your home. And I think that's the one thing. I remember the most about Grandma was that that twinkle in her eye when she saw us when she saw me

14:06 She saw the other kids. She had such a twinkle in her eye that says I love you was unmistakable that will make you feel special and I think he's one of us.

14:24 And with good reason that we were her favorite was a favorite grandchild and there was this that twinkle in her eye so you have three siblings. So there were four of you but I was his favorite. Of course, absolutely. That's so in the summer. You would go visit her. I remember you talking about this when I was a child. Going to visit your grandma at 2106 North Talbott Street in Indianapolis, and she would come and take us one by one all summer long and it worked out to about two trips two weeks vacation for each one of us and Indianapolis.

15:21 And during that week we were

15:26 The other favored child and she would fix anything we wanted to eat and one of our favorites was Chef Boyardee ravioli in a can.

15:41 We were little farm kids lived on a farm and something from McCann was wonderful and we loved it and I still would just, you know do special things for each one of us not on our week. We had a great time. Can you just

16:06 But your grandmother look like to you in that time during that time rather playing I guess, but she had learned my grandfather.

16:22 Sorry, my grandfather had taught her he was from Urban environment and she was from a rural environment and he had taught her how to dress. He had taught her how to fix herself up and she never left the house without her gloves and her hat ever even to go to the grocery. She was a she was a lady now. I remember her showing up when I was a kid with her gloves on usually white gloves white blue and and a hat to come in and take off her hat and take off her gloves and she was there. So that was her when I was a kid. I remember her being tall. I have no idea how tall she was doing. I don't either.

17:23 When when you look at pictures, she looks kind of average height, they'll do a little taller than some I'm guessing 55456. Yeah, she had beautiful hair when she was younger.

17:39 She was she was playing that a very beautiful plane if that makes any sense.

17:52 So when you would go down to Indianapolis for your summer weeks, I remember because we went to this place that you said you would go down to the movies.

18:03 2 Talbot Street Theater did Grandma take you there? Was that one of your when we were younger she would take us to the movies and then she would sleep right through every she's got her eyes would go close on the opening newsreel and stay closed right through the closing credits. I guess it was dark. So then later on when we only two blocks away from her house, and she would send us by herself.

18:50 And another thing she would do the trolley stopped right on the corner right by her house and she knew the conductor and she would take us out and put us on the trolley give him car fare for to the end of the line and back and tell him to drop us off and we can slot that was just heaven, but she probably did too. It's a very inventive way of the house for a little while and we will get off we get the end of line then I'll turn around and come back and and we just had a glorious time today that yeah, you would know if a child.

19:51 At school now. I know she and Grandpa got divorced which was kind of unusual that divorced.

20:04 I know it was they were separated a long time. They were estranged living in the same house for a long time and then they were separated for a long time and I never knew exactly when they were divorced and I mean the divorce was Final. I do know that he asked her to go and file the papers and be the one who got the divorce and it was something about incompatibility cuz that might have been less scandalous from her too. And he designed over the house everything to her.

20:53 Cuz they had a house. How how did she make a living she did she work outside of the house before they got divorced know she had converted the house into a Apartments there were two apartments upstairs. And then after all the children left, there were there was one efficiency downstairs. Is she actually raised grandma. She raised and my grandma and those were her two children, but she also raised she raised her sister's to children after they were teenagers.

21:37 Idiot Cora Cora passed away, she cut herself cleaning chickens dressing and got blood poisoning and died and she was 53, but she had these two children who were young teenagers yet. And so my grandmother and grandfather adopted them legally. Okay, so raise them with their work wasn't too much raisin to do.

22:12 So she had already turned the house into a place where she could take in boarders. So when they were divorced did she work outside the house then she worked for a short time at an insurance company. I think she was the receptionist and did light, you know, like filing and stuff like that. And then she worked at them American life insurance company as a mailroom person sorted mail in

22:52 I remember you talking about when you were a teenager going to Indianapolis for summer to work there with her when I was there was that I was 15. That was the American life insurance company. I did microfilming for the info for the company microfilm. It just was just becoming popular and a way to store old records. And so that was that was great for insurance companies to have to keep their records for a certain. Of time. So, what was it like to spend the summer with grandma? Just can you say having it was it was really great, you know have Grandma all to myself for a whole summer. That was great. She paid for

23:52 Singing lessons voice lessons for me found a really great voice coach

23:59 And

24:01 We just had a great time we would go and visit the farm so she could see the kids but basically

24:10 I was hers and she was mine for a whole summer since we were you the only two living in the house that summer well except for the borders out. Okay in the apartments. Yeah.

24:25 One favorite memory of time spent with your grandmother like during the summer.

24:35 One that stands out.

24:43 I think and we did this more than just a summer but she would take us to Ayres Tea Room downtown is because she loved to go there too and they had linens on the table and they had little finger bowls and men's and everything and she we we really love that. It was kind of like we would dress up and go and then every Sunday we would go to church and when we would get out of church, we would buy a big bag of White Castles and there's another thing that I wouldn't even touch today white castles with Grandma was just

25:41 The most wonderful thing in the world. I think the constancy continual care that grandma gave everybody around her is

25:56 In the kind way she did it was probably the the most the biggest thing that I can remember instead of just individual. She would take the time to talk. She would take the time to listen.

26:16 And that we know that just didn't happen any other place in my life.

26:25 So if you had the opportunity to talk to her today, what would you ask her? Oh, would I ask her?

26:38 Oh just where to be getting I would want to know more about now that I have them or the maturity to know what to ask. I would ask about Farm life when she was little I would ask more about the relatives the different relatives that she had and I know that my

27:08 Great grandfather. Her father was a member of the old order German Baptist Church, and he was one of the ones in the late eighteen hundreds who broke away from that church, which isn't it a Monumental decision for himself and for his family and so she tells about going to church and it didn't they became movers and shakers in the Brethren Church in Rossville, Indiana, and she tells about going to church in her mother never knew how many people they were going to have for dinner because he would just go around and just ask this one asked that one and pretty soon. They just had a house full every every Sunday about things like that. I hear that

28:06 The chickens got real nervous when they see extra buggies is going on and I guess this is the truth name, you know, and then the fact that my grandfather's brother's two of his brothers adopted and I only recently found the South adopted Two Brothers From The Orphan Train that went through Rossville in the late eighteen hundreds. I mean, I like to know more about that because they would have been cousins to my grandmother, but she never spoke of that. At least I never I never knew enough to ask it is those things that you don't know enough to ask?

29:06 Now when you're older and I really wish I could ask Grandma that and I know I know that she would be so overwhelmed by all the technology now that we have that was just Sheba. She was feisty enough that she taught herself how to type in her handwriting didn't please her enough anymore. She got a typewriter and taught herself out of type and she was always open to new things. So I think she would take to a lot of this.

29:46 When did grandma died that? Was? She. We do know that October 28th 1972. We just don't know how old would sure that's now. I remember her after she had moved from Indianapolis to

30:10 Ross Rossville, and so she had moved there and then what I remember from being a child was her living in a trailer next to the house of your mother until I remember going there and obviously by then she was older and she was retired and

30:35 She had lived in she had moved from her house and Indianapolis to a little house in Rossville because the conditions in Indianapolis had gotten pretty bad on her street. And so she she moved it to Rossville. And then she was coming down with Alzheimer's she was starting to get we suspect we suspect. Yeah, very very strongly.

31:08 And so she couldn't stay by herself anymore. So she bought a trailer and moved out on the farm with my mother and they took the keys to her car and and then she slowly went down from there when I when I first remember her she was still driving and I'm not sure that was safe. But I remember her in her car that was not safe at all. She had had several accidents by that time and in one a really a potentially bad accident. She had she was coming to our house from Indianapolis and she completely rolled her car.

31:57 Down in a little embankment down by Kirkland and there was grass everywhere when they finally pulled her car out and there was grass but when she walked in the house her had her hat was off to one side of her. She had a lot of you made it.

32:24 But your dad suspected something and so he talked to the police and they confirmed that she had had an accident. So so she went downhill from there and I remember going to visit her in the trailer in the first place. We would always go with she had this big desk but today but back then it was huge huge to me also at each child would have a special place in that desk and that's the first thing you went for the open it up and it would be goodies on kinds of wonderful things just for you. And this was your place and everything in there was yours and it was such a wonderful desk and I am blessed to have that disc today.

33:19 Yeah, I remember going to her when she lived in the trailer going in and that was the first place we always went was to that desk and we had yeah, we would get in her little cubbyhole smart move. It would be wonderful wonderful things that he had collected here and there with with you in mind with me and mind. It was just it's just a wonderful and so I have the desk.

33:49 So you often when I was a kid growing up would make things and say now this is your grandma bossert's recipe.

34:01 Sisters wonderful cook

34:04 Just a wonderful cook. If you can have one of her chest pies little tiny chest pies tart, like thing with a kind of a pecan if they were kind of like little pecan pies. Oh my goodness, and she would cook more Pennsylvania Dutch type Brethren Church food stuff.

34:41 So she didn't just open up a can with our Chef Boyardee been able to duplicate is her ribbon sandwiches and I wish somebody could tell me how to do that. It would have five different layers and it would have them two layers of a cream cheese like a ham salad and two of a jam or jelly.

35:23 And she would put them to trim the crust off of bread and stack them up and then somehow she would wrap it so that all those things would would meld to take it out and then slice it down and it look like a ribbon and was it ever good was just just and Sunday. I will be able to replicate that recipe keep trying.

35:54 So

35:56 If you if you could think sort of what important lesson you learned or lessons you learned from Grandma. What do you think? Those would be?

36:11 I think

36:15 She taught us through her life to be very patient.

36:23 I don't know that's one less and I have to learn over and over again, but she was very patient. She was very kind.

36:34 And I hope I am learning that and passing them along.

36:43 And M just everything about her said

36:50 I love you.

36:53 And that just she Slipped Away From Me Through the Alzheimer's before I ever knew that she was leaving and I just never had a chance to say goodbye or how much I appreciated her.

37:15 That's why they put these Kleenex here.

37:21 So if you could say something to her.

37:24 What would you say? Well, I guess I would tell her how much I appreciate her.

37:39 Because I think enough not enough people in her life did that and that's one reason I wanted to do this.

37:55 So should we end on a happier note?

37:58 I think so.

38:03 So what are your some of your favorite memories?

38:09 Like you talked about going to the Ayres Tea Room.

38:14 And we were going through pictures looking at pictures of you and of her coming to visit family. It seems like family.

38:25 Because I remember her being there a lot when we were kids. So it seems like that family was very important to her. I think she had the old time since love of family.

38:41 Which is, you know, not very many people have.

38:46 That kind of sense of family anymore and just no matter what we were doing she would just when she'd come to the farm. She just pitched right in and help and she always carried her bed with her. Her bed. She had a Palin made up of of blankets and soft covers and a pillow wrapped up inside of that. She would roll up. She had a had a rope thing and she would she would roll it up and carry her bed with her.

39:35 Okay, did she sleep on the floor or sleep on the floor? She preferred to sleep on the floor?

39:45 Okay.

39:50 That's very practical very practical.

39:56 Well, I'm glad we had the opportunity to have this conversation. It's a bit. It's been a great opportunity for me to learn lots of things not just about Grandma about the whole family because of course her life was intertwined with me in a relationships. Yeah this whole history of of people in our family. So it's been a great opportunity for me to learn a lot more about my family including why I don't know how old I am inside jokes. I guess that's it.

40:43 Well, it's also been a great opportunity for me. Also did it to you know, pull all these dates together and try to make sense of a lot of the things that's been that have been floating around in my mind.