Thomas Angell and Christina Cregg

00:04 Hi, my name is Christina. I'm 32 years old. It is February 25th 2006. We are here at Balboa Park in San Diego, California and my relationship to Tommy who I'm interviewing is I'm his best friend in the whole wide world.

00:29 Hi, my name is Tommy also known as Tom Thomas TJ. I go by a different name. I'm 43 again the date of February 25th 2006. We're about to park in a story car trailer and as you've heard already, my best friend is interviewing me it's going to rain.

00:49 Well, thanks for joining me today, Tommy. I need to let start-off. Where were you born with most of it was the first time I take 10 years of my life. I was in Miami we moved around just a little bit and then I went for time to Middle Florida for a year with my grandparents. And then after that later on around 8th grade I moved with my mother to Tennessee with her boyfriend and we spent five years there and then I came back for my senior year to Miami and graduated from North Miami High in 1980.

01:38 It was a hit a culture shock coming from Miami which was very Cosmopolitan. He knows a big city that had a lot of people a lot of nationalities just everything was going on down there. I am moving to Gatlinburg. Tennessee was pretty much of a culture shock. I went the first guy I went to was first through eighth grade was all in one building and had a the principal was my teacher and I noticed that are Bose CineMate the first day when I was riding the bus and I didn't know why and then later on when I became their friends at one of the boys. I remember the first day you were on the bus and we thought you were a girl and I said, okay. Well, that's why I was getting all the stairs. So I'm the to the people do you think you are a girl wellbeing for Miami? My hair was a little bit longer was in the 80s. It was just before they so is about Sunday 4:35. So it was not a

02:38 But it was a shag. It was a shag haircut and I compared to the the haircuts of the boys in Tennessee. It was quite long as long as many of the girls. And again, I didn't think anything about it. It was kind of short for me and then it's but when I got to know that all the guys and that they didn't think I was a hippie freak or anything like that. They did line up and say that first who your parents my parents were Barbra Angel and Thomas Angel by was named after thank goodness. He didn't need me Junior because his money was Harry and I don't really want to grow up with being Thomas Harry Angel jr. I did not want to be a hairy Angels. So I think he took pity on me and I named James. My mother was a

03:27 She graduate high school became a in a different job is mainly 10 apart bartender waitress. My father had been in Vietnam got out and was working at a helicopter repair Factory later. He got out of that and was work for the truck into the street for many years. They they separate I should say I found out not too long ago that they never got divorced which I thought they did. But but they were mainly just separated when I was quite young my sister moved in with my mom and I love my dad for a time and then my grandmother's and

04:05 And then we know there was a big story there as far as who I live with but the majority of my life as a

04:14 Young adult they have been separated and as they still are but they are good friends.

04:23 What is your relationship with them?

04:27 Well

04:28 I don't remember the early years that much except when I burn down the closet of my house and that was just weird fascination with some fire. I I was in the house at my house. I think only my mother was home and I was

04:48 Taking some matches in line amplifier with lighting them and I would have said some paper on fire and I had this in my closet. I had this big toy car set and as I would like to paper on fire, I would smother it.

05:02 I'm not quite sure why you know, there's a lot of psychology psychological reasons Tyler later on but for the most part, I just enjoyed the fire and I was it wouldn't want to go out.

05:17 Selling my wisdom I ran out and got a blast of water. And by the time I came back as a glass of water did not put the fire out. So I had to go wake up my mom and I said the house fireman came, I do not get a spanking my parents never spanked me, but I was mortified in the fireman talk to me. I burn up all my and my sister's clothes and toys and smoke damage to the house. So after that I stopped playing with fire.

05:46 Go back to the rest of my mom. That was my mom. I didn't really have a close one when we move to Tennessee. I moved in with her cuz both of my parents thought it would be best educational wise where we lived in Miami was kind of a rough neighborhood had changed a lot. So they thought I could get a better education to a fee but I really feel closer to my dad who did a lot of the lot of the raising is a very hands-off dad. He worked a lot but I always knew he was there. He was a friend. He was a buddy and he would do whatever you needed to support me and my sister.

06:22 And then once I got high school, you know, I became an adult.

06:27 Join the Navy but I still feel my dad and I are really good friends.

06:38 4th Battalion okay to go along with the problems of playing with fire when I was young quite young. I think I was about 8 years old. I had to a babysitter a live-in babysitter her mother and her the babysitter was I say she was my route 17 and her mother were like living friend Nanny type of relationship. So I would take In the Heat of the summer. So Donna Donna get was her name. We would take a nap together. Yes, and I can't I was real young. So it's not so much of matter of I had this intention in mind, but one day it was very hot. And Donna Gail was wearing a yam.

07:26 I like the day dress. I don't I'm not quite sure what you call it. And I was not sleepy and I just happen to look over and there were some Josh I say it there was some body parts showing that I never knew what they were and was kind of interested in so being a child and very curious I decided to reach over and inspect one of them and as I was expecting it. It's open and she saw what I was doing and she gave me a smile and we woke up and left after that at dinner that night though. I guess you decided to tell the family how inquisitive I was. So when I realized that the story was going where it was. I jumped up and covered her mouth and begged her not to tell I think I blacked out after that because I do not remember if she actually told them or not. So that is the story you wanted me to tell and there you go.

08:26 Thank you, Tommy. Thanks for being so helpful.

08:30 He had a sister what's-her-name. And what was she like growing up? My sister name is Marla Marla angel. I think we had a traditional brother sister relationship grown up. She was 5 years younger than me, and it was my job, of course to torture her through her young adult life in the early years besides burning all our clothes and toys up I did the other mischievous things like it ignoring her teasing her make her life a journal mess this, related mainly in when we moved to Tennessee. We live basically by ourselves on top of a mountain. So we didn't really have any friends we could go play with so we were each other's friends.

09:13 So when we got off the bus, it was quite a ways from the school. So we would have to walk up by this Lonely Mountain by ourselves again, it was my job to to teach her the ways of the world. So as we're walking up this man, I would do various things like that take a switch and whipper with it lightly and that nothing nothing harsh and say things like sha Mula faster faster at work other times when she got tired of that I would run up the hill and leave her behind and again, this was a very lonely mountain and it could be kind of scary sometimes so of course when I got out of sight she tended to holler and cry and beg me to come back sometimes I did sometimes I didn't also in again. We're on the top of my mouth so

10:01 It was dark woods around sometimes. I would disappear outside and pretend the bear got me and watch her run around the house crying because I could see him with the lights on she can see outside. So basically, I think we had the stereotypical brother sister relationship later on. I was a teenager of driving years, and we were we were back in Miami at this time. And at this point I was driving her to school each day, and she was tending to become a little rebellious and she didn't enjoy her big brother driving around.

10:46 To impart some worldly knowledge in and actually you no manners on her when they were driving, and she actually had a lot of trash with her. She was eating something. I can't remember exactly what and she decided to throw this trash out the window. Well, I know she knew that I had a ticket about, you know, people throwing things out the window, so I slammed on the brakes and the car it was a highway, but it wasn't a very busy highway and at this point I made her get out of the car to go and pick up the trash at first. She did not believe me.

11:21 That is that's what I wanted to do. But when she saw my determination and that the cars were zooming around us and and and moving over. She realized that she had better do it before we got an accident. So begrudgingly she decided to get out of the car. Stop the way back to the trash pick it up and get in the car and for the next day or two soundly make noises of basically how she couldn't believe I made her do that. And now when we get together, she still brings it up every so often.

11:51 How would you describe yourself as a child and were you happy? I believe I was happy as a child. I am I would say I was somewhat of a loner I didn't get it. I didn't have a lot of friends. I had a few friends here and there but I was really more of a loner. I enjoyed books. My grandmother introduced me to the mobile library at a quite young age and I got my own library card. Oh, I would say not long after I could read and that was a highlight of my week. So I think we went on a Saturday maybe a Thursday night Saturday and that we would walk a few blocks and going to think it was a

12:32 Forget the grocery stores name but in their parking lot. That's where the mobile Library would go and that's when I would take my little library card I go in and I could choose any book. I want and the power of being able to choose your own book and take it home and read. It was just inspirational to my mean it made my week and I still pretty Avid Reader, but my my

12:57 Loner mentality or whatever has stick with me throughout my adult that I I'd like a few friends. I like a lot of people went but as far as being close to him, I'm usually just close with a few at a time. I think I work or not work, but I think I get along with a lot of people in different social settings, but I'm most comfortable with just a few people at a time or in a very intimate relationship relationship or area and I think my childhood basically moved into my adulthood and I was a happy child.

13:34 Who say mines of librarything? Can you share with us the story about?

13:42 Being late with your library books at happened about a year ago.

13:48 Okay, I'm currently a student at San Diego State University. I just had graduated with a bachelor's degree in liberal studies. I'm not going to the teacher credential program a year or so ago. I was taking one of my classes required me to check out several books from the Campus Library. I checked them out but for whatever reason mainly because I'm a procrastinator of the highest order. I did not get the books on time back on time and I kept stalling taking them back until they were really really late.

14:28 Well when I took him back, I felt that it would behoove me to not tell them the exact reason why I was late taking a back. Mainly that I just forgot or didn't want to take him back. So on my way there I decided to concoct a story to make it clear to them that it was an O re my responsibility of why these books relate.

14:51 So I had mentioned that I had been taking a trip and had left my books with my mother up in the LA and that by the time I realized that on the way back that I forgot the books that I was going to have to have her send them to me and and that it took a while for her to pack them up and mail them back to me and that is why they were late. They really don't care why they were late, but I thought for some reason that I had to give them a very good excuse. Otherwise, it would look or with it would reflect badly on my Personnel upper again, of course, he didn't know me at all and could care less, but I thought it needed a explanation of the teacher back in 1980 on a whim because I didn't have any real Direction back then I decided to join the Navy.

15:48 I said well I could join for a few years and

15:53 I'll see what it was. Like I had no directional High School my parents and I did not have the money to go to college right away and to tell you that wasn't really I don't want to focus but school just didn't seem appealing to me. So I join the Navy if I was in there a couple years and I said, well, you know, this isn't too bad. Maybe I'll see what it's like so all of a sudden it started to 10 years and then the 10 years I said, we're about to stay until 20. So after 20 years in the data processing. I was a Information Systems technician and I retired as a chief petty officer.

16:31 It was near the last 6 months. I was in and I was realizing that I could get a very well paying job as a computer technician on the outside and my life was pretty much settled, but I realized that after 20 years working on computers. I was fed up with it. I thought back upon you know, what the different things I've done during that time in Hawaii was in Virginia. I spent three years as a adoptive School volunteer work with second graders, and I realized that with them and the kids of my friends and family that I really enjoyed working with children.

17:07 So when I was getting out I said what what can I try and work with children and I wanted to go to school to use the GI Bill I said, why don't I go ahead and work towards a bachelor's towards something that dealt with children and I've been hearing lately that there was a teacher crisis is not have enough teachers and not have enough male teacher. So and my mind is all melted together-- and I said, well, I'll just become a teacher in I chose the elementary school to become an elementary school teacher because maybe it was because my age whatever I could not stand high school kids or even some middle grade school it so I wanted to teach the kids in kindergarten through fifth grade because they were still and I'm right now student teaching and I'm working with kindergarteners and I think it's great and I hopefully if I don't become a full-time to draw still work with the with kids because I think the

18:06 Interaction I have with them and being able to guide them or at least being a model for them is so much more rewarding than that getting a computer hard drive up the happiest moment of your life. And then the saddest.

18:25 Well, I'll start off with the saddest. I meant you before that. I was leaving my mother and my my dad something that wasn't mentioned in. There. There. Was that a good portion of that time was with my I live with my grandmother on my mother's side who my dad also lived with two which was kind of funny, but my grandmother I would say was the mother figure for me for a good portion of my life.

18:51 We were really really close and when my last Duty station came up I decided to come here to San Diego because my mother had just moved her and her mother my grandmother to Los Angeles and San Diego who was the closest I could get station to him. So I would I got stationed here and I will go up almost every other weekend to visit with my mother and grandmother more particular my grandma cuz I knew she was getting up in age and her health was going to fail her and I wanted to spend as much time as I could with her.

19:27 A few years a couple years ago. She had a another stroke and she was just ready to go her my grandfather died several years ago and to tell you that I didn't think she'd survived that because they were so intertwined as a as a couple but she had she held on and she actually moved out here to California my mother which I thought and itself was a miracle. She had several experiences, you know of traveling that she never thought she would so I'm happy that she made that but by the time the stroke happen, she was really ready to to take him to move on and I got to go up there and I spent the time with her the last you know to days of our life and

20:15 And I was there and them in the room when she passed away and

20:21 I have to say that was the saddest time but I was also glad that she was that her family was there with her and that.

20:31 I think I think that point in her life because she couldn't do much anymore that she was ready to go.

20:37 The happiest moment of my life. That's actually harder. I I I don't know. There's so many Peaks that you know, I I keep track of but I think it's if I had no, excuse me meet meeting meeting meeting you was one of the highlights of my life and that that might be a story in itself. We have to talk about later but I have to say another happy for my life was again a concern my grandmother and my mother and dad when I made a chief petty officer in the Navy we had always been families from different Cocina my mother and grandmother were here on in California. My dad was in a Florida and my sister was in Florida. So when I made sure I was able to m

21:28 Get them together I paid for their tickets and as a family we all got together and they attended my chi spinning and it wasn't so much for the promotion that I was happy. I was just having the family all together for one of the hope at that point. I think that was the last time we were all together.

21:50 Yes.

21:52 My grandmother had a very very interesting life. She she did so much and some of the stories. I can't I can't remember the one that always stuck out of my mind. I was choosing young woman that was before she met my grandfather.

22:11 And she used to frequent a local bar.

22:18 At the bar there was I forget the gentleman's name, but he was one of the regulars as she was and a one night during the weekend that they were having a great old time the whole whole place was rocking and

22:33 They were laughing and giggling and this gentleman I leaned over to my grandmother. And and I guess I'm going to happen to my don't know if my grandmother was making suggestive moves on him or whatever, but he leaned over into that Catherine. You do know that time of gay and my grandmother looked at him seriously and said, yes. I know you're the most fun to be around person I ever had and at this point the gentleman that I smiled and said no Captain. I'm gay. I'm a homosexual. I do not remember after that when my grandmother said, but she she took a quite well from my recollection, but the two to a give her credit, she still remembers that do you know and and the later part of her life and she never mentioned anything about being, you know, I can't stop alternate Lifestyles, but it was funny that that she would always bring that up when anything on television wood would relate to

23:33 Homosexuality

23:44 Well, I alluded to the fact that when I made cheap that it wasn't that big a deal to me, but because I know that the tradition of the Navy and that a lot of the list of US strive to become a chief in their career and that I met those qualifications.

24:05 In the end and basically. I just served in the armed forces. I think that

24:16 Made it it made me proud, but I think it really made my father. My my my parents proud that not only did I join a server but that died. I had achieved milestones at a lot of people don't get too. So I think the private and in that was more so for everybody who who cannot achieve that more so than just what I achieve.

24:40 Do you have any regrets?

24:43 As far as doing the service.

24:49 Well, of course, I have different types of Red soda, as far as the service, you know, sometimes I feel like that I may have stayed in too long and and that other avenues of my life financially or or or or do work could it could have been different if I get out earlier and pursued other things but I think overall that it was the right choice for me the most because I guess I have are more of a relationship wise. I've been engaged three times and none of them worked out very long after the engagement was announced. I do not know if that was addictive of if I was ready or not. So now that I'm

25:34 43 and about to start a different career my life as far as teaching. I do kind of regret that maybe I don't have a family of my own share with but of course if I did, you know, who knows where I'd be right now. So I guess the regret would be having something that I don't have. But again, I don't know how that would have worked out.

26:01 What is your first memory of me?

26:08 Well, it was approximately 5 years ago to this some to this month. I believe I had started a class of 04 music for teachers. We sat around in this room all in a semi-circle around the piano. I am not musically inclined. So I was pretty pretty scared of being in this class and there were many people sit next to me and one of them had a ball cap on and of course we had to remember try to remember everybody's name as a exercise at the beginning of class.

26:49 Panda

26:51 I can only remember if you and yours was one of them.

26:56 But I didn't really remember that so much as

27:00 Several I say we were in the class for several weeks and I would be walking from the class going back to my car and it seems like it was only once by know. It was more like 10 times. I would be walking out of the class and halfway to my car when I hear in the background this high-pitch that you can't tell because she's lost her voice high-pitched voice going Tommy Tommy and I'd be turning around and there would be a girl from my class named Christina flagging me down to just talk to me and I'm at that point. I was you know, I was interested in what you know, she might have to ask me or talk to me about but I guess the

27:44 Single moment of when I actually knew you as a person and what I remember most was after we were talking several times during those stops that you made of me. You mentioned that you weren't very good at math. And I said I would help you if you needed it and one day you called me and said if I remember right somebody who is good to help you with math backed out or wasn't doing a very good job, and you called me and pleaded with me to help you with your math. I don't know if you really played it, but that's how I'm taking it and and I we met at a Starbucks not too far from my house. And at that point I try to help you as much as I could with my with your math problem problems, and at that after that point, it just seemed like we always knew each other.

28:31 I passed on my math class instead of Utah me. You're welcome.

28:43 I'm not quite sure what makes it such good friends, you know, there are many ways. We are very similar and then another was very dissimilar. When I first met you when you were calling my name Tommy. Me down the hallways at school. I was interested myself while you were associating yourself for me. There is a apartment 11 years difference in our age. Yeah, we do have we were sharing a a lot as far as we both wanted to become teachers. We were in the level studies program. So I think that initially brought us together and then I think it was just so much that I enjoyed listen to you talk and how you thought and and your opinions on things and I think I appreciated that when you would listen to me and that you acknowledge what I said, and I think I think we got together just mainly because

29:43 You know, we we did have differences and we still do have differences of opinion. But we enjoy talking to each other about those differences and similarities similarities when they happen.

29:56 Is there ever a time that you were really really mad at me if they're there been many times when I was a really really mad at you I have.

30:07 I'm let me think of some of them that I can actually talk about actually out this first one I will mention was not that I was really really mad at you but you did have a tendency to not be really time conscious and why was going to some of my classes, you know, I would try to get to bed by 11 and you had a job that was you work late at night and they were often times that you'd call me at 1 or 2 in the morning and not only what you want to talk but you'd asked me to come and eat with you and I being in a the generous friend that I am with would wake up at 1 or 2 in the morning get dressed and drive 10 or so miles to eat with you just so I can hear you complain about your job and then go back to sleep for a couple hours and then have to wake up and go to go to class again, which I did not regret, but there were many times I class when I was going I need

31:07 A few more hours of sleep a night pretty sure you do and I will be reminded me of you reminding you of those times I later in the future when I need to.

31:21 When is the time that you love me the most?

31:28 I think at times I love you the most or after or during fights that we have whenever we had arguments.

31:40 I would feel devastated.

31:42 And I would think our friendship was over and

31:49 A day or so after our fight you would call up.

31:53 And it was like the fight never happen and you expressed how much you love me, even though we just had a fight that I thought terminated our friendship all together and that was a little perplexing to me because I you know again how I felt about those lights. It seemed like it was the end of the world in you it was just out, you know, we fought it's over let's continue on and I have to admit that I loved you because you could put those differences aside and still feel for me, you know, like you always have

32:25 Are there any different than beef like to pass on to me and to your future students?

32:34 I don't feel like I am a

32:37 Encyclopedia of words of wisdom of any type living the years I have I I think there are certain things that I think.

32:49 You should live by 1 is.

32:53 Never say anything to anybody that you don't want other people to hear because you never know who's listening and I think you leaving that philosophy to 2 is just so you know.

33:07 Be yourself. Don't try to be other people. I see so many people trying to be other people that they lose sight of who they are and you may not be the most interesting or good-looking or handsome or tallest person, but that you do find people that like you for who you are and when you can't find people that liked you for that and that's more rewarding than having a somebody like you just for no superficial. Thanks.

33:33 I guess the last thing would be just too we really have a short time here on this Earth and I know life can be tough and we don't always get what we want.

33:47 But if you love your life to the fullest being that only for yourself before other people as as a

33:55 As a human race as a whole not just your family not just your close friends, but you know people and throughout the country throughout the world. I think when the time comes, you know, you'll love you won't regret the life you lived.

34:10 Thank you.

34:12 I love you to Christina and thank you for sharing this time of me.