Lois Harvey Gatchell and Laurie Gatchell Green

00:04 I am Lori Green. I'm 57 years old the date today is November 28th 2008. I'm in Tulsa Oklahoma, and I am the daughter to the person being interviewed.

00:18 I'm the person being interviewed. I'm Louis gatchell and I'm Laurie's mother. I am in my 89th year.

00:30 And today I have the honor of interviewing my dear Mother Louis Harvey gatchell who was born June 1st 1920 and is she says she is in her 89th year.

00:44 Do you have some early childhood memories that you would like to share? Of course? I thought Yankton South Dakota was probably the nicest place on Earth because I didn't have any previous experience and it was a lovely growing up time.

01:04 I can remember things like the ice wagon that delivered ice to our house and it was has sawdust on it and kids would follow to see if they could get chips of ice, you know, and I remember the telephone was a really interesting thing because you lifted up the receiver and there would be people talking and I was scared. I didn't know who they were, but then I learned about party lines and the operator that said number please.

01:36 There were lots of great things that happened in those days every Saturday night. My mother would bring the tub out to over the register of the furnace and we would have our Saturday night bath and get ready for church the next day.

01:53 What about when you were five years old, you mentioned the clothes that you wore? Yes. That was the year. It was a tough year for my parents apparently because

02:05 A bunch of relatives came to live with us my aunt and

02:11 Two and three cousins and it was she was widowed her husband had been killed in an automobile accident and three of the children were killed.

02:23 And in those days there weren't places for widows to go. They didn't have retirement communities or Assisted Living places like we do now.

02:34 So you just had to go live with your family isn't it wasn't until after we were grown up and married that my parents were ever alone without some relative living with them.

02:48 Well that year of kindergarten there were too many of us in our house. I had to sleep in a baby bed because that we were out of beds.

02:59 And for some reason my mother had to make a dress for me to go to kindergarten in and it was made out of a man's suit and then she had several pinafores said she would button to this and she could wash those.

03:16 Mother said later that she was embarrassed about my clothes. I didn't notice that they were so bad. I like kindergarten.

03:27 What were your parents like while they were very loving parents, you know, that was also the year that the Ringling Brothers Circus came to town and

03:39 My dad couldn't afford tickets for the circus, but he got us up at 4 in the morning to watch the parade from the railroad station to the circus grounds. And that was terribly exciting, you know, the animals and the clowns and the rest of us all a big long for session.

04:03 And what were your siblings like and what age is for they in comparison to you, but my sister was the oldest and she was five years older than I and six years ahead of me in school and then much later. My brother came along and he was eight and a half years younger than I so that we were kind of spread out there. Just three of us.

04:29 Do you remember many happenings with your sister and brother? Oh, well Karma's my older sister. Thought I was a brat and she she called me that and it always amazes me that as we grew up. She became my best friend.

04:46 My little brother was terribly spoiled because he was so much younger and

04:52 You know, we I thought he was a brat too. But that's just the way kids get along I guess.

05:01 Well, when the Great Depression came you would have been 10 11 12. What are your memories on the next time? I do remember the Great Depression because we had to scrimp and save it was a company by the drawers and in South Dakota. That was pretty tragic.

05:22 The dust storms people said all of our dust came up from Texas the cattle were dying, you know, and you can see the and the grasshopper plague came at the same time. It was a really bad scene. I can remember the dirt just sifting in and making our curtains dirty.

05:44 And when President Roosevelt, of course was the president during the Depression and he came to our state to make a tour of the dross area.

05:56 And the he World cross the state on the train will my dad being a good Democrat among many Republicans was invited to go along on this tour with Roosevelt across the state and course. He's never forgotten that he felt at that was great privilege.

06:19 What other work did your dad do in the Democratic party? Oh, well he

06:25 He was a faithful Democrat. He tried to get them organized up there South Dakota is one of the red States even today, but at the time he had some friends that decided what they really needed to do was organized some young people in the Democratic Party.

06:46 So they raised the money and hired Hubert Humphrey and George McGovern to organize young people.

06:55 Well, you were cursed later moved to Minnesota where he became prominent, but there's McGovern and stayed in South Dakota. He was a professor of speech at the Dakota Wesleyan and

07:08 Karst later ran for president unsuccessfully but of fine senator from South Dakota.

07:20 And did your father go to conventions Oh my he never missed when he was at always a delegate to the Democratic conventions. And of course that's famous one where it took a hundred and three ballast. I think it was to elect Al Smith or to nominate him.

07:38 Because this was the day at there was a lot of prejudice against Catholics, and that was the big argument.

07:48 But finally, you know, he made it on the ticket, but was defeated by Herbert Hoover as I remember.

07:56 Well, did you enjoy school? Oh my yes I did but

08:04 Sometimes I guess I goofed off because I remember the first see that I got in grade school. It was fifth grade and it wasn't an English of all things which was my favorite subject and I ran home crying with my report card because I was so disappointed and in talking with the teacher the teacher talking to my mother said the well, she just isn't working up to her potential. I wasn't quite sure what that meant. But I did better than next time been in high school. What are your memories one of my fun memories is being Aunt Kitty for the school newspaper. It was really a gossip column and nobody knew who act Kitty was Aunt Kitty rights and until the end of that term. We revealed my identity and that was fun for me.

09:06 And you are also on the debate team. Oh, yes. I love the debate and imagine the

09:15 The question and the 1938 was resolved that the United States should adopt socialized medicine and I can't believe that we still are debating this or something similar at this time in our lives.

09:36 That is amazing. What are your memories of college old College was wonderful. I went one year the University of South Dakota because my dad was on the Board of Regents and really kind of insisted but my sister graduated from there and she was popular and beautiful. I had this probably of a middle child complex. Anyway, I really wanted to go away. I wanted to see more of the world. I wanted to go someplace where nobody knew my father or my sister and see if I can make it on my own and so, you know, my father realize this and he researched

10:26 The possibilities and he narrowed it down to two states where he predicted that the economic development was the greatest and the Arizona and North Carolina. And of course that you really proved to be true because they were expanding so much.

10:49 And then we chose Arizona. Well, my father had the notion that people east of the Mississippi where more snobbish is it may we chose Arizona and I love the Intercultural experience because we didn't have a lot of Hispanics and Native Americans and it was very interesting. I liked it.

11:17 What were some of your activities?

11:21 I was president of the pi Phi house and I was editor of the Wildcat but my major was journalism.

11:31 Hi, my minor was speech and

11:37 Well, I guess it was during my senior year that silly war broke out. I mean the United States and her the world war.

11:45 And that was a big trauma for any college campus the men began to disappear. They were being drafted or they were enlisting.

11:55 And it was a very emotional time because we were felt so vulnerable.

12:02 It was our generation that was going to have to carry the brunt of this war.

12:09 So we it was very end where I wrote an editorial about that and how difficult it was to adjust to for a it was like doing a dramatic turnaround on the campus.

12:25 And that article was picked up by the AP and broadcast all over the country. Will my dad couldn't be more proud my mother to I haven't mentioned my mother and she was so important. She was the manager for our family. We you know, the salary came to mother and she managed it somehow we got through on a very meager salary, but

12:55 To show you how generous my father was.

13:00 He was

13:03 Call Dad the front door one evening. I think it was during dinner.

13:07 And he was as large black man, who was an itinerant Minister for the black church in Yankton.

13:15 We didn't have a very large black population of we had more Native American said we had blacks but he would come and visit because he had a small congregation there.

13:30 And he said Mr. Harvey. I've been seeing you around town and you're just about my size and he said the weather is getting so cold. I wondered if you might have an extra jacket for me to wear.

13:45 My dad whose heart was melting.

13:49 Said I've got a coach you can have and he gave him his only Overcoat. Well mother as the financial manager just could hardly tolerate that and yet she appreciated the fact that he was so generous.

14:07 You know, that's just one of life's a little incident has.

14:11 That was wonderful going back to the University of Arizona. How did you meet Dad all blind date, of course and turned out he was a great dancer. We love to go dancing.

14:24 He was

14:26 Athlete and played football and a basketball in those days. You can major in all the sports. He was even the high jump heard he could jump over 6 feet of those days.

14:39 So he was a pretty good catch.

14:45 And then he had he was a year ahead of me and he enlisted in the Marine Corps and went into Officers Training. And after I graduated I went to Washington DC and went to work in one of the defense agencies, you know, they would hire anybody just to warm body and I got a job in the office of Defense transportation of all things issuing permits for oil barges to be to deliver their oil on inland waterways. And I had no notion what the inland waterways were but I learned that was my job until we got married when he finish his Officers Training and where were you married in Washington DC and Georgetown in the Episcopal Church.

15:43 And then for a while I lived at Quantico Virginia on the base and work for the American Red Cross because he was stationed there as a weapons instructor.

15:57 And then eventually he went aboard ship on the Ticonderoga brand new aircraft carrier went to the Pacific.

16:08 And like many of the carrier's you they were attacked by kamikaze planes as I remember 250 casual days and back to part and we were in dry dock for quite a while.

16:26 Do you remember how he escaped being injured he was in the wardroom having lunch at the time they of the attack. They were five planes came after them, but just to hit the ship.

16:39 And he didn't have his revolver with him. And that's one of the rules that they must hit be carrying their gun before they take their battle station and he had to go down below to get his done and that really saved him if he had been at his battle station. He wouldn't have survived and what year what was your wedding date November 27th? 1942

17:11 Yesterday was November 27th. And that's where I would have been a 66 years. Wow, as it was you made it to almost 60? Yes, we did.

17:25 Well now we're moving on through life and you move to Tulsa and one of your first jobs after moving to Tulsa was program coordinator for the National Conference of Christians and Jews or nccj and I was wondering what was accomplished while you were at the National Conference of Christians and Jews that proved to be a natural fit for me because I was very much interested in header group relations. And we we we dealt with all kinds of groups, you know.

18:00 Inter-religious and the we had a group on public education and Labor Management and government and police community relations all of the groups that need to relate and learn to work together.

18:19 So that was a really good job for me by this time. I had three children that move with me.

18:27 And

18:29 So I I took this job as a part-time thing because I needed to be home when the children came home from school. They were pretty young.

18:40 But it was the first job that they assigned me to was a survey of the group relations between the suburbs and the Central City.

18:55 And so I went around to these places. I've never heard of before like Bixby in Collinsville and Sky took and interviewed leading citizen to see what their attitudes were toward the Central Central City and we just talked about the racial attitudes the religious attitudes and then compiled this into a report called Tulsa Metropolitan survey.

19:27 And out of that effort, but you took two years actuated compiled a report.

19:35 Quemar the first community relations commission for the City of Tulsa because it was the tensions especially racial. We're growing so much during the sixties and the city needed to be involved in some way in an official capacity.

19:56 So that led to that and one thing led to another when you were the first director of the community relations commission for the City of Tulsa.

20:07 And that was an interesting experience also because that was the racial Revolution was going on.

20:17 Civil Rights Movement exactly Martin Luther King and all of the city of the 70.

20:24 Passions that came with it

20:29 Tulsa was able. I know I think it was a credit to the leadership that we put together the White and the black leadership to keep the lid on and to work of peaceably we had demonstrations. We had boycotts of restaurants that wouldn't permit blacks and that kind of thing, but they didn't tear up tin to the violence that happened in other cities.

20:56 And I credit our community relations work with those.

21:01 We just had good leadership.

21:06 And then from that job, what was your next career move?

21:12 After the community relations commission I moved to

21:17 Teenage pregnancy issues and we established under the model cities program, which is one of the Lyndon Johnson's

21:27 Federal programs a program that was served this teenage parent prop population which was much larger than anybody had discovered together heretofore.

21:42 And of course the idea was to provide the resources that these young people needed the health the education the counseling and guidance of parenting skills all of those things, which we already had in the community. We had these resources but nobody had put them together to impact that population. So we started a program that was called the Margaret Hudson program named after a Pioneer doctor at the health department. She had pioneered maternal and child health.

22:21 And it was a perfect fit.

22:24 And you were there 10 years. Yes, and you work for the Kennedy Foundation during that time. What was your job for the Kennedy Foundation? I get some Consulting for them. They had developed a program of

22:39 For training of professionals that would work with the teenage parent population and it was interesting. It was from the Department of Ethics at Georgetown University. That was an interesting curriculum and I was supportive of it and they let me go around two places at work either had existing programs or wanted to start programs and perhaps use the curriculum and that was how I got involved with them.

23:13 And that was a fun time to how did you meet younes and Sarge Shriver? Well, you know, this was really responsible for this developing the curriculum and she was in charge of the Kennedy Foundation at that point. And of course one time and they invited me to their home and

23:37 And then I saw her when I ever I would go to Washington. I also did some Consulting for the office of it was a Health and Welfare. It was office of adolescent pregnancy programs at that time.

23:51 And so I would see her and

23:55 It got kind of combine those things then I was just working part-time. I had given up the full-time job.

24:03 And then you took up another career.

24:08 Hear you're talking about my religion.

24:12 Yes, NM.

24:14 And I was with the teenage pregnancy program.

24:19 Well the Episcopal Church in his wisdom finally admitted women to be ordained and

24:29 They want to be ordained orders is a deacon and a deacon in the Episcopal Church is supposed to be a minister to the world kind of a transitional figure who brings to the needs of the church to the world of the needs of the world to the church and we had organized a little independent study group under the direction of our Bishop.

24:59 And we would we set our own timetable and we planned in order to meet the test that we needed to pass for the canonical exams.

25:13 And it took us about two years to prepare.

25:17 And

25:18 Anyway, that's how I got to be our days. But you are one of the first women in Oklahoma. Yes. I'm the first permanent deacons in the one other lady and I and my particular Church.

25:33 Word ordained together man. That was

25:38 It's been a wonderful experience also, and I would be assigned liturgical duties as well as my principal Ministry was in the world, but on Sundays, I would be perhaps in the Pulpit or all helping with the service and you gave sermons to which dad enjoyed dad were stopped watching that he didn't believe in long service. That's for sure. But you know, it was interesting. I wrote One sermon on.

26:12 Religion and politics and it was in 1991. I guess it was before the Clinton administration.

26:24 At least somebody my friend found it recently and gave it to the church and they repeated the sermon I was amazed. It was not taking a stand. Nobody was being told how to vote but trying to explain that citizenship is a religious responsibility and I really believe that

26:49 That's great. So, can you define your spiritual beliefs?

26:55 Well, it's difficult. I just know that it's a source of strength.

27:00 And you know and deaths in our family. I recently got a card that I thought was beautiful that each soul.

27:12 How's that goal? Each soul is a lovely flower that passes from the Earth.

27:20 Only to bloom again

27:24 In Heaven's Garden

27:26 That is beautiful and

27:29 That sucks a source of strength to me that my life is worth something your life is worth something. Everybody's is and we're all different unique but we make a contribution in some way. It's beautiful.

27:48 Do you have anybody in mind over all the 88 years you've been alive who has influenced you a great deal or any people?

27:59 That you feel have influenced you or your life.

28:04 They've been so many it's very difficult to you know it right away I have to say God is my principal in fluids because of all of the strings.

28:20 That I have received I think are from that source.

28:28 And they operate God operates two people and the people who have entered my life and influence me.

28:36 Are part of that?

28:41 My children are beautiful loving my parents were loving.

28:48 How could I not be a loving person?

28:58 An early on when you were in college, you said you were influenced by a professor?

29:05 My journalism Professor was a big influence.

29:10 And it was funny. I had that experience of wanting to

29:16 I guess I believe in communication skills that being important and I wanted to make minor in speech and major in journalism and at that time.

29:33 Journalism was in the liberal arts department and speech was in Fine Arts. And you had the petition in order to have to combine those subjects which seems really strange to me because I thought communication skills or communication skills, you know.

29:52 But we made it we got through that.

30:00 It was a good experience, but he believed in you. Yes, he did answer.

30:14 Do you have an idea of how you would like to be remembered?

30:21 Well, I think I'd like to be remembered as a good person who love people love God.

30:31 I can't ask for more than that. Do you have any words of wisdom to pass on to the younger generation? They feel like they're missing out on anything because of the way things are today will.

30:47 In a way, I think affluence has been a problem. You know, I

30:53 Technology on most who has gotten way ahead of us. And if you don't have a cell phone and text message saying and camera and a

31:05 You're just not in a Juno and

31:09 Some way there the materialism I think is a threat.

31:16 And I hope that we can keep that under control was as we rear our children because

31:27 Maybe we wouldn't be in such an economic buying this week with were more careful.

31:34 And we certainly have to worry about the terrorism.

31:40 The materialism

31:42 We got some real enemies out there. Do you think that there's a law start in regard to letter writing?

31:52 Yes, I think that texting isn't helping.

31:57 Or we have to abbreviate everything and

32:02 You know, I do think that would be a shame to lose the literary touch.

32:11 And yet, you know, I would be the last to deny that there been a lots of advantages to the technology to.

32:21 We just need to keep things in perspective, right?

32:28 Do you have any family traditions that you think of fondly?

32:34 But your family every year.

32:39 Repeat well

32:42 You don't mean things like oyster stew on Christmas Eve anything like that? Yeah. Well that always kind of amazes me because South Dakota was such an inland State and some way we would get fresh oysters for Christmas Eve and that became a tradition at our house and I thought that was pretty great and most of the children that grew up with us or have carried that on.

33:11 Occasionally they would marry somebody who didn't believe in oysters and they'd have to substitute chili or something, but

33:23 Do you have any other parting words of wisdom?

33:27 Well, no, but I think you're a good interview or thank you, but you're not prejudiced at all. Are you now? You're not only my daughter. You're my friend and you're mine as well.

33:45 And this was lovely.