Christopher McPherson and Matt Hinrichs

00:03 My name is Matt heinrichs. My age is 42 years old. It's January 14th, 2011. We are in Phoenix, Arizona.

00:13 And I'm here with my spouse Christopher and my name is Christopher Jeffrey McPherson. That's Jeffrey with a G. My age is 51. I forgot my ages 51 today's date is January 14th, 2011. We're in Phoenix, Arizona and I am here with my spouse Matt. Yes, and we are here basically to talk about ourselves and a growing up in the Phoenix area and when we met and also when we first got married in California in 2008, so where were you born?

00:53 I was born in Scottsdale Arizona and I was born in Phoenix Arizona back when it was very small and very quiet and no air pollution was a very different world than yeah, and then I moved to California and lived there for about 10 years lived in San Francisco and then came back and then got it work at the Phoenix Gazette newspaper. And then I was among other things. I was the theater critic and one night. I was a sign or one time. I was assigned to go to Gammage ASU Gammage Auditorium to review a show and the way it works with theater critics is the publicity people provide two tickets because lot of times people who are reviewing will bring a spouse or partner and I usually didn't bring anybody cuz I didn't have anybody to bring so I called up and told him to go ahead and release the ticket and so I got there that night and you were sitting in that extra ticket next to me. Yes, and we had a mute.

01:53 Friend, who is the publicity director? I guess at the theater where this show was playing. So what was the show? It was crazy for you right company of the group one Revival.

02:08 And

02:11 I can remember that night. I was a little bit sick.

02:15 And I was even thinking about not showing up.

02:19 But I did show up in the main glad I did. I don't remember Randy Davis was in the cast of how you wanted to see M P Davis from television Brady Bunch. Well, yeah, I was promised by this friend of ours that I would be able to meet her after the show and I actually did meet her and get her autograph. She's really nice there by Tom. This was Grady Gammage Auditorium in Tempe where I'm at. Sounds a lot longer than it actually probably has yeah.

02:58 And I grew up in Tempe and that place was always kind of special to me anyway, because well first off it's just very unusual looking it was designed by Frank Lloyd Wright. I hear it was a good looks like a big birthday cake. Yeah, it was later in his career. And I just that place always just seemed really unusual and special to me. We went there a lot as kids in elementary school to see theater Productions. And then when I went to college in 87 and 92 highest go there frequently.

03:37 Either to see your show or just to hang out and study cuz you went to ASU which was right there for Gammage Auditorium has yeah, but that whole area is has a lot of memories for me. I actually remember learning how to drive in the parking lot there a big part though. Yeah, go to the car. Is there a funny so and course special to me because I met you that night. Yeah. Yeah.

04:06 So then that night we entering intermission we went out and got some coffee in the up at the snack bar. And I told you that I was going to go see a movie the next night with some theater for the mine and say I'd give you my number and it said if you want to go call me and what I don't know what movie I don't know what time I just know it's tomorrow night. So call me and I'll let you know and so you did and the movie started at 7:30 and you were in Mesa and got off work at 7 and you had to go all the way from Mesa all the way to the opposite side of town. But yeah, I don't remember that the few minutes he had to come all the way from Mesa and then about 7:35. You came running up. I said hurry hurry, they're already inside the movie. Skip out on that happen often enough. I wouldn't have been surprised if it had but plus the next day next day. Thursday was Thanksgiving.

05:04 Oh, yeah, and then

05:07 When we after the movie Wednesday night, he said we went to a local restaurant nearby and got french fries and stuff for a late and I said give me a call if you want to go see a movie or something this weekend and you didn't call Thursday and then you didn't call almost all of fried and I thought well, that's the end of that was it and then about two or three. I was taking a nap in the phone rang and it was you and you said let's go to the movies. So we decided to go to we went to a Star Trek movie. There will be a very first Next Generation Star Trek movie the oldest in the Capri. Okay. Yeah 24th Street and Camelback the big wide screen 75 millimeter screen. Then we went where for 5 and Diner place here in yes and got the hot dogs wrapped in cheese and bacon and french fries covered with cheese on Burger. I don't know how possible it was a great meal like that right bond holds a lot of memories for stew.

06:07 So then we haven't spoken. I mean we spoken every day since then. Well, that was one of the things between your working at the newspaper like mostly add a daytime schedule when I worked at the newspaper. Basically the swing shift it was real hard for us to get together in Cajun Lee. You would join me for assignments. I'd have my happy attic and you'd come with me and then you go home and I'd have to race downtown to the paper to write my review. So we didn't have think we mentioned that I was a graphic designer at the newspaper in The Mesa Office. Yes, and I basically word for the morning paper that they had at the time the Arizona Republic which we go around now and I work for the afternoon paper the Phoenix Gazette which closed about 12 years ago. I lost my job before it closed. But yeah, 10 or 12 years ago. 1995-96 because at closing when they finally closed

07:07 Poor newspaper, but that's right. You were working in The Mesa Office for the morning paper and I was working downtown for the afternoon paper. So we didn't get there really a lot of time to see each other but we did we talk on the phone at least talking about every single day since that Friday after Thanksgiving. Yeah. So then one day fast forward 13 and a half years. We were living in our house downtown historic district all fq story. What is the second historic district in the downtown Phoenix Area Housing and I had the house since 1996 and you moved in in mm. Right and the 1927 Craftsman Bungalow which we love very much and we were back in when we were back behind the porch and I said, you know, they're allowing people to get married in California now. Yeah. I said you want to go

07:56 And I said sure why not sure why not and I said, okay. I make plans cuz what had happened was in May of 2008 the California Supreme Court has ruled that the state law on same-sex marriages was unconstitutional and on the 16th of June 2008 marriage is officially began in California and part of the process was that you had to call ahead make reservations to get the license and you have to make reservations to get I guess you didn't have to make reservations for the license. You have to call ahead make reservations to get married. But we also had to call ahead make an appointment to get the license and we organize some time off. I figured best time to go with around the July 4th holiday, and so we drove in on

08:41 Wednesday morning. There Wednesday afternoon went and got her license and we were kind of we were kind of concerned because this was all new and there's been so much controversy about in a same-sex marriages and stuff and we thought you know people are going to be mean to us or snotty or give us the looker something. So we drove into Riverside County which was the closest place we could get married from where we live in Phoenix and everybody there was so wonderful and nice and thoughtful and the woman who actually pulled out her license and she was very nice and we said you how many of these would be done and she said well we've done quite a lot and I said, I didn't know how many she goes. Yeah. I think she said I think she said you're my third one today or something like that same-sex license and then we thought we were going to get married at that same location and found out that we were getting married was like 10 miles away. So we were cuz we have got a hotel right next to the county clerk's office, which is where we thought we would get married which was a really nice hotel and everything was fine. So downtown Riverside.

09:41 Really beautiful. It was fun lot of me old architecture there. We spent that afternoon walking around looking at the Ewell architectural downtown. We had to get a map to figure out where we're supposed to go the next day which would have been Thursday. I guess Yeah by 3rd, and it was out in a suburban area. I basically that the area was in kind of like a Office business park is right next to a giant like shopping mall. Yeah, and then it was like an office Park right next to that. So we ended up is all likely brand new buildings. Very interesting.

10:18 Change from downtown River. Yeah, I know it was totally different right off the freeway. And yeah, we got there early. So we went looking at for video games that's right back and we got to the counter. So the more license and they said, okay, where are your Witnesses? And I said well when we called and made the reservation we were told there would be people who could be Witnesses for us cuz we thought it'd be like employees or something. She said no, no, you have to have witnesses and I said, oh, where do we find somebody out in the lobby? So we turned around and there was a black man and a white woman standing up against the wall and I went to them and I said we're going to get married at 2 and we need Witnesses and we didn't know we needed to bring Witnesses. Would you two mind standing up with? Yeah, and I was a little bit petrified at that point cuz I had no idea if

11:13 People were going to be hostile toward of what but the first person we asked was just as sweet as she could be and said well, I'm getting married today to write but I'll be able to stand by and and be your witness for your marriage. So that part worked out pretty well. That was really funny cuz we gave her a picture while you're here. Just take a picture of us.

11:42 Just so we have it for a record in for the whole ceremony was walking around getting all these different angles and getting like a puppy a background silhouetted sauce. And I thought that's the coolest thing that she's got a lot of pictures really good pictures to some really nice. She was really really great. Yeah and then afterward we on we all laughed and we were talking with him and everything we exchange phone numbers and stuff and on their first anniversary. We sent them a happy anniversary card, and I'm right after the marriage they'd given us their email address and we emailed and I never heard from her. So the first anniversary I sent him a card never heard back. So I don't know whatever happened they lived in Riverside. He was on some business there. Yeah, and they've been together for a while and I don't know whatever happened but we tried to keep in touch with him, but that didn't work out. Yeah, but we made our marriage very casual. We just wore a regular everyday clothes. I think I changed into nice shoes in the parking lot.

12:42 Change we open up the car doors and stood behind them. And yeah from Dressy clothes to a casual clothes with we're driving back. Right and it was the middle of summer and it was freaking hot and it was gas was for 65-gallon. I was at summer when gas was so expensive. We stopped it. Where was that Oracle were the dinosaurs are at the gas station with a dinosaur. Okay. Yeah where we stop there on the way back out there on the way out and it was almost $45 to fill my tank. My little Aveo with them gas efficient cars to fill the tank. But no after we got married in the parking lot we drove off. So we were going to go to Palm Springs and me not to mention about the woman marrying us the same person that we dealt with buying the desk and she was petite little Hispanic woman. I forgot what her name what I don't remember either. Yeah, but she told us to go around to the

13:42 Chapel area that was kind of a nice little room. She came out in a nice flowing robe. And yeah, and she just basically said a few.

14:01 Things from her script and told us to repeat a few words at her and James Rings. Yeah, and it was just really nice and simple.

14:15 But okay, I just want to know no hurry up back to that horse. And then after that do we go shopping because we wanted to go to Palm Springs and meet with Robin friend of ours. Okay, and he didn't know we were coming because we didn't tell anybody that was one of the interesting things about getting married as we didn't tell anybody. We were going to get married get to my family are bats friendly part of the concern. Was that even though marriage had been allowed it had started a couple weeks before we got there. There was always there have been a lot of talk about going to court trying to stop the marriages and the whole time we were making all these plans cuz we had to call several weeks in advance to make get a time and date the whole time. I kept telling Matt when we get there. It could no longer be legal anymore. We may not be able to get married. So I didn't want to say anything and then have them some Court come in and stop it and then

15:15 He wouldn't be able to get married and then we have to come back and explain everybody what happened. So we didn't tell anybody until afterward. So we got to Palm Springs and tried calling Rob and it didn't get ahold of him. So when it's a Hamburger Mary's and had lunch at a wedding banquet and pop back in the car when we went to this shop that oh, that's why we stopped at three or four vintage stores there along the main Drive Palm Canyon Drive in Palm Springs. Ourselves a few wedding kit for ourselves. We spent like 75 was a big storm in Phoenix right before we got back home. And so everything was all dirty and wet that night and

15:58 That was essentially it for our marriage and I went into work and told people and they're all like shocked and surprised because of course we hadn't told anybody. We told send an email out for you and our parents and after we got home, I designed this little announcement using one of the photos basically said we were married and it was in Riverside and we just decided to drive over and get it done and send it out to all of our relatives and a few friends to running and most of them congratulated what everybody assumes people would have never had any problems with our families or parents or anything about the fact that we're gay or the fact when a relationship her parents both sets of parents have been really understanding which is really great but still isn't about

16:58 Kind of a big step 2. Yeah, you know go get married and stuff. But then of course shortly after that came out in November of 2008 came the election and where Prop 8 which was Banning same-sex marriage is passed barely and that was in California. The Arizona one was like prop 11 or something that was two years before 9 and goes into thousand dollars at the same time might have been which was horrible. But yeah California's Prop 8, which was a big controversy cuz everyone kept saying it was going to pass on that. It was not going to pass that they were going to say no to Banning same-sex marriage and it just barely eat by and started all the court challenges and one of things that was really frustrating was

17:48 When the people were who sponsored Proposition 8 we're being interviewed like for example on NPR they were a so what you going to do about the couple that have already gotten married and they said well, we're not going to go after them because it's not their fault. They got married when it was legal and blah blah blah the day after property passed the very first thing that these components are Prop 8 did is they went out and Sue to make our marriage invalid which just demonstrates the hypocrisies behind people like that. They'll say one thing. Oh, yeah, we're not going to go after the people. You've already gotten married in the course the next day they sue to invalidate all those marriages which I thought was just particularly hateful. I mean we go there we spent all that money on the wedding spent all that money on their hotel and everything else and then just to have them try to invalidate that whole thing. I thought that was particularly infuriating to me that they would then turn around and do that. So we then were thrown into limbo and our marriage is not recognized in Arizona because that constitutional law from a

18:48 Two years before but we were in legal limbo as to whether or not a property would be upheld and be whether or not the weddings that occurred before property passed would be upheld. So we waited and waited and then finally in May 2009 California Supreme Court ruled that Prop 8 was valid and also that they were going to not invalidate the wedding started taking place. So we kind of breathe the big sigh of relief that our wedding actually would be considered legal and that made us one of the 18,000 couples that are estimated to have gotten married in California in that brief time between June of 2008 and November of 2008 where marriages were actually legal there and then of course

19:37 Further history on that is the California Supreme Court that it went into the district court probate and in August of 2010 just a few months ago. They California one of the judges of The District Court said that Proposition 8 was unconstitutional, but he he they asked if he would allow marriages to resume again and they put a state that that it wasn't wouldn't occur and so at the current status at the time we're recording this the full California the district court that encompasses California has already heard arguments and we're waiting for their ruling as to whether or not Proposition 8 is unconstitutional whether they love hold the single District Court's ruling on that and not supposed to be coming out in a few months and then of course will happen after that more than likely.

20:33 Is will go to Supreme Court for one of the questions that came up for the the district court that includes California is whether or not the people who supported Proposition 8 have standing to sue to stop that because the only people who can stop a California state laws somebody who represents California such as the governor of the Attorney General and both our governor Arnold Schwarzenegger and attorney-general. I think was Jerry Brown at the time who's not a governor of California. They said they weren't going to contest it. And so the question not only is Proposition 8 unconstitutional but they performed at the Constitution a proposition 8 do they have standing to sue to stop to keep the marriage has stopped in to take it to the Supreme Court So within the next few months, it's going to be very interesting to hear what happens with your status. But either way we're still married, even if it isn't recognized here in Arizona, it will be one day but it isn't yet.

21:33 Yeah, and I'm optimistic about how that will pan out California or the whole issue the whole issue before we got in here and a lot of people are like, well, you know, if you get allow gays to marry the world's going to come to an end, but gays have been getting married for like a couple decades now around the world and in Massachusetts, I think they're in their 7th or 8th year now in the world is still worth it still rotating the stomach son still comes out in the morning still shining so I don't see you at what point these people are going to finally realize that they're wrong. It's not going to cause a collapse of society and we're just regular. I mean, I hate to say this but we are regular boring people just like every other person on the planet. We have people we want to spend our lives with and be in a relationship with and we want to have that recognized or not a legal basis that we are a couple and some people want to do that in order to have kids and some people want to do that in order to have

22:33 The legal protection that comes from marriages and so do we simple as that? We don't want to overthrow the world. We just want people to recognize our relationship. Yes, and I believe our relationship is valid as any other

22:59 Level has marriage changed.

23:04 Not necessarily relationship at the way you think about your relationship just for you. I mean I'd say it hasn't really changed it that much but it just feels a little bit more permanent, I guess.

23:19 It's like a like a CEO of permanence. I guess what we had talked about it I think on the drive back it was like, okay, we're married. Now. Do you feel any different? No, do you feel any different know and I agree with you at it? It doesn't mean we were together 13 and a half years before we got married if we had never gotten married that wasn't going to change things. Yeah fact that week. We kind of on a lark did it I mean it wasn't even a big hole. So kind of thing was just you want to go sure. Okay. Well, let's go kind of thing and it's not to say that marriage doesn't have any kind of important or validation. It isn't as important or valid to us because it's not recognized anywhere. So it's really just a technicality, but I think the bigger issue is in the future. It will mean that we can't take for granted all the things that straight couples who get married take for granted such as visitorship in the hospital inheritance being able to get Social Security when a spouse dies and just

24:19 Family, in fact about a month ago. I guess President Obama signed the bill that allows gays and lesbians to openly serve in the military which is decades overdue. And now there that issue is going to bring up what about spouses of gay couples and what about military survivor benefits and things like that. So it just seems like life would be so much easier if we would get past this whatever mental block people have about gays and lesbians getting married said, okay, they can get married. They have the same legal rights. Now that's actually move on to something of Greater importance to worry about than whether gays and lesbians get married so that answer your question. It really hasn't changed in our thinking of it. We haven't we hired a lawyer last year. We went through all the paperwork the will the living will the power of attorneys all that stuff that straight couples who get married get that automatically but we have to go higher lawyer and pay money to have the paperwork drawn up.

25:19 To say if I get sick in the hospital Matt can make decisions for me and that just that's silly that seems like a waste of valuable time and effort to have to do that, but we're not protected right now like yeah.

25:33 And it's that's an issue not just for gay couples, but even first-rate unmarried couples so true. It's true, but they have the option of getting married and getting that automatically and in most cases gay and lesbian couple found but we do have we don't have kids. We don't have any intention to adopt children, but we do have a dog and a cat and a hermit crab that we love very much whether we're going to talk about that. I already know not why not we're going to talk about the cat and her name is Arrow and she's named after Eero Saarinen the industrial designer who did the st. Louis Arch and and we previously had a cat named teams who is now passed away was named after Charles and Ray Eames. I I need got diabetes and died of kidney failure at 6 months.

26:33 For we went to the Humane Society and found arrows a little kitten. Yes. And what do you want to say about Arrow? But she's a wonderful girl and she runs around the house like a kitten in Knox things over and breaks things. Don't that yes, and she's like 4 years old re6 this month. Actually we had her five years and she's six this month. I'm just going to be asking for the car keys now and then in September one day, I was outside and I saw a little pair of black legs run to the side of the house and it turned out it was a little frightened Chihuahua Dachshund mix dog, and it was hot was one of our lives like a heatwave day little black dog mat ran in and got a little bowl of water cuz the dog wouldn't let us anywhere near us with the water down and came back a couple hours later. And he was all I had drunk some of the water and he seemed a lot more friendly. So we put them into our backyard trying to as we were going to go find the owners. He had a little red collar.

27:33 Flea collar but not a dollar. Yeah, and we looked and looked and couldn't find anybody who'd lost the dog. Nobody posted posters. We put them up online and nobody claimed them. So we decide to use your little skinny dog with bite marks around one eye look like he'd been attacked by a dog or something. We took him to the vet and look for a chipwich. There wasn't any we ask that with those marks were and she said that look like a bite mark. Yeah, so he must have had a rough life. So we tried finding the owner by posting on our neighborhood message board and posting on Craigslist and things like that and nobody came forward after a few weeks. So we in during that time we bought a few toys and some food thing. Yeah some food for it and after a while we just brought him into our vet and decided to claim him for our own and we thought he was like five or six years old and that when we took him to the vet

28:33 Scan for the chip. We asked him what after that what she thought the age was and apparently he still had a couple baby teeth. So she said he can't be any more than a year-and-a-half. So we thought always a poor puppy who's been out on the street in a with nobody to love him and care for him. Yeah, and that's when we found out it was a Chihuahua Dachshund mix mix right? So but he's really cute. He's really smart and he's and we named them all though, which is named after Oliver. Also another industrial. The fighting is desiigner from Finland. I don't know why we name our pets after industrial designer not in anyone Lottery you or something like that. So so 16 years later. We're still together and we still have a wonderful life and a wonderful house and wonderful animal center hours and friends and

29:24 That's it.

29:27 Please do ask as many questions as you like.

29:34 Details, how did you start talking? What did your first conversation sound? Like? Well, it's actually not too strange that we would have had it start a conversation because when I would go and cover theater in Phoenix at the time I was doing about a hundred shows a year cuz at that time in the early late 80s early 90s, I was with because that theater was really hopping here in Phoenix. It's gone down a lot since then, but I had a notebook with me. So whenever I was within to sit down and I always attracted attention. So I made a point of Saint Cloud is the river was sitting near me And if they also tell him I was with the Phoenix Gazette I was here working to do the show and stuff. So when I walked up to my seat and that was already sitting there and I said Hi, how are you when he signed fine, whatever, you know basic conversation. We had yeah, and then the show starred in that intermission. I said, I'm going to go up and get some coffee at the Mac counter would you?

30:34 To go walk around outside with me and I said yes because I wanted to talk to you and I remember talking to you about the performance them like the subtlety of the leading ladies performance. I want to sound sophisticated Empress you talk about other things I guess during and then right before the intermission ended we're back at our seats and that's when I gave you my business card and I said, here's my home phone number. We're going to go to a movie tomorrow night. If you want to go. Give me a call on yeah, that's what about what happened. What was funny is I guess a year or so after word after we'd already been going together. That's when you told me that you had been real sick that week and that you would even thought about not going to the show that night and it was like, I don't remember you being sick and I'm going to be looking sick or looking weird or anything. I just find it somewhat sick, but I was well enough to go.

31:34 L&B Davis, was there any other free ticket? So how we get out go handsome young man sitting down in a white kind of Cardigan and repair an old sweater that I threw it look nice. Whatever it was. Okay, it's funny that you worked at the morning paper in Mason. I work in the afternoon bass paper and Downtown Phoenix and it was like the fact that we worked at the same company was not really relevant to how we actually met which I always thought was kind of a circuitous addition to the store real but you are basically a freelancer there. So you you just went into the office like once a week or so. Well, that's why I went after the show was I had to go I did my reviews overnight. We were the only people that did overnight reviews. So I left you and went to the paper and I usually work until about 2 in the

32:34 Riding mower reviews cuz I had a 3 deadline paper came out at 6. So yeah, I was there all the time but I wasn't there while you were in Mesa. Then you moved to downtown about a year later. Yes, so you were there during the day and I was still there at night. So we would never even seen each other at that either same building but different time work it out. But at the time I worked in the satellite office in Mesa Suburban in the department was it it was an advertising for that what you did? Well, it was just the advertising Department.

33:14 And later on I moved on to marketing and especially publication Publications. That's meant that yeah, right. That was about three years later. No, yeah.

33:26 And then they started making you work 12-hour days 6 days a week and I finally sat you down a little bit later on and I'll be ready to put the paper which and go freelance which was out. I asked great thing to have done personally. Yeah, I quit in late 2003 and I've been freelancing ever since right and doing so yay for that.

34:03 Louder than that first night. Well, I have one and it's actually kind of funny because

34:10 One of the things that always bothered me was that whenever I was dating anybody we would always end up breaking up before the holidays. So I never had a boyfriend over Christmas ever and that is really annoying and I'm just two years before I met you. I have been dating somebody that they look really really serious and he broke up with me the day after Thanksgiving. Anyway, I'm sorry I use foul language there, but it's true so he can use a Christmas without a boyfriend. So when you and I started dating and Christmas came and I went over to your house and that was like our first my first Christmas with a boyfriend and I brought you a little plastic tree and wait for gifts and things and it was really it was nice. That was my first Christmas with a boyfriend just happen to be you that was kind of funny that was sweet was fun. And I remember one of the first dates we had we were talking about we're both big fans of old Hollywood and I was talking about how I had a photograph.

35:10 An original photograph that have been done by Ruth Harriet Louise and you actually knew who it was a famous female photographer in the twenties in Hollywood and I went you forgot her name and then I said, I'm so amazed by that. I went home and put in my journal. He actually knew who Ruth Harriet Louise was like one of those like nobody knows were there. Louis now, but yeah, so

35:39 So yeah, do you have any other wonderful memories moved into the house and I guess memories of my old apartment in Chandler that it's like being yeah, I was a little dingy Apartments. The best place in Chandler is a little bit further out from Phoenix and closer to me has a lot of them vacant lots and things like that at least at the time. But yeah, I used to have baby scorpion sometimes in my room. That's where we spent our first Christmas though. We got out some James Cagney movie that we watched while we wrap presents. We had a present wrapping things you were saying how you hated wrapping presents. So I said, I'll come over and help you were watching. What was it?

36:22 Probably an old Joan Blondell James Cagney movie something moving. We were watching that when we wrap presents and then Valentine's Day. Year was really big for me cuz I never had a boyfriend during Valentine. Don't think I did either. Yeah. You got me that little little squid Pig. Yeah. I got you a little piggy a little gift basket with sweethearts and stuffed pig that was pink was like a little bear holding a flower or something. Oh, yeah stuffed animal talking about it, but I still have that roadkill piggy to pair with my phone somewhere. Yeah.

37:13 Need any other questions?

37:31 I felt a little bit unreal at the time. I thought I agree with on. Yeah, but you are a bit overcome with joy and tell everybody I was crying. Go ahead. That's fine. I'm a softie when it comes to stuff like that. So yeah, but but yeah, I just got through it and yeah, it was fun. But by the time we didn't realize we were going to be part of that 18000 because we had always hoped I think at that time everyone had thought Proposition 8 was going to fail and I thought you were just the beginning of a trend. We didn't realize that this was the window to get married in California. And if you didn't that was because at that time if I'm not mistaken, no State Allowed non-residents, no states allow gay marriage allowed non-residents to get married except California. Yeah. That was the only state so we couldn't go to Massachusetts witch at the

38:21 I'm allowed to get married cuz we don't live there. Oh, yeah, of course since then I think five or six other states have passed laws that allow same-sex marriages and two or three of them allow non-residents to get married. But at the time we went to California, that was our only option because we knew at that point. There's never going to make that we were never going to make that legal here in Arizona. Now them worse will change but at that time we thought our only option we were going to do is to go to California. So we didn't realize we were going to be like like as Pioneers at that point but wants Prop 8 passed.

38:53 It was like wow, that's it. We went during that window where you can go. That was yeah, cuz we wanted to wait to get married on our anniversary, which is November 22nd, but we couldn't because the election was November 8th and if Proposition 8 passed we were not going to be able to get married on the 22nd. That's why we went ahead and went to lie. So we were kind of aware of the fact of might have been a limitation but I don't think we realize we were going to be like pioneers and honoria. Yeah, but I imagine with a lot of couples there is a sense that it might go away to it. Now we'll have better do it as soon as we can cuz now it's it unless unless they allow gay marriage in California again with all this District Court wrangling going on right now. That's it. There will be eighteen thousand people got married in California not others.

39:43 So, I guess that means out of

39:45 Unique special at the right. It's hot blah blah blah. Yes, blah, blah blah. Yes, let's go change and go seriously because it was so hot that summer and it was that hot that weekend was like the hottest weekend so far that year when we were driving out there and it was just

40:08 Call you in about 1 minute 1 minute.

40:13 No, I'm just glad we participated in this into I was a little bit leery about it first, but it was fun. Yay.