Poki Piottin and Tania Chávez

00:03 I'm Tanya Chavez. I am 42 years old. It is February 3rd 2013. We're in Santa Fe, New Mexico and I'm here with poke Puritan.

00:19 And I am poke. And I'm 54 years old. The date is February 3rd 2013. Where in Santa Fe New Mexico and I'm here with Tanya as a cult member of time bank.

00:39 So poke. We are here to talk about the Santa Fe time bank. And how long have you been a member of the time bank?

00:51 Going on two years pretty soon break. Can you tell me a little bit about what the time bank is from your perspective?

01:00 What time bank is the way to trade your time with other people on equal equal footing like one hour of my time doing say Carpenter is the same as you know, somebody else our doing nursing or you know car repairs.

01:22 And I was pretty interested in now turned of currencies before encountering timebank and I was actually working on another project besides the one I'm doing now and I came across time bank The Time band concept and then I got contacted by 10 minutes to join at that time. It was perfect that you participated in.

01:50 And what do you know about the other time banks around the country and around the world?

01:56 What was mostly looking at alternative currency? So there's actually you know, paper exchange like a Nino a dollar whereas that time bank is all done through a website. And so there's no you know, no Media Xchange. It's all recorded digitally.

02:16 And what kind of what kind of system do they use to to do that? They actually print you mean time bank or they've been using a software that you know is shared by several CDs and I don't know where they're at now, but they've been looking at you no changing to a to a different software that than that works better as more flexibility. Yeah. It's my understanding that there is a large time bank in the United States that's using that's using an early version of community Weaver, which is the software that the time bank uses to. Do, you know about that.

03:04 Yeah, I think they mentioned that one of their last Community meetings that I went to but I'm not completely, you know preview to the latest, you know latest platform they're using

03:18 Okay, well to tell me a little bit about the other alternative currencies that you that you've learned about in your explorations.

03:29 Well quite a few years ago. I heard that.

03:34 In Ithaca New York, they printed their own currency and and I'm not sure if they distill me know using that. I think the federal government was not so favorable to be no people printing any kind of money. So I think the the digital media is allowing people to trade their time like that if it was in the realm of IRS, no standards, so, I don't know anybody else that's you know, any other communities that's actually using printed money for four different kind of you know exchange than the dollar.

04:19 But you know this song.

04:22 Is actually documentary that just came, you know couple years ago, which was called.

04:29 Something about the money but it said they were interviewing people all over the world actually were you know, trying to change the system get around to know the

04:40 The Quagmire of the the current money system in order to boost their economy and one of these are the people in that documentary, I think it's the color of money maybe the documentary by the one of the people interviewed was one of the creators of the Euro and after the Euro was created is an Austrian man or he was really in a realizing that the money system is just you know is not working and it's creating inequalities and it's full of no loopholes for abuse and so he's now a consultant to organizations like time bank that wanted it for love, you know different systems. That's wonderful. I'm going to have to watch that movie.

05:34 What do you know about the systems that are similar to Tyme Bank in in Europe for in another countries? I don't know how they work specifically but I understand that Spain is really big on like a time bank system because the economy is not doing so well so well, and so people may not have cash in terms of regular dollars, but they have skills and they have time and if finding ways to exchange that and you know get their needs met and share their resources.

06:16 Suta kind of circle back to the Santa Fe thing. I guess first. I wanted to ask where you're from. I'm French originally and I came to the United States in when I was 20. So almost 35 years ago. See you've been here long enough to see how our monetary system works and to get interested in other systems as well.

06:46 What what kinds of things do you generally Exchange in the time bank?

06:53 Well when I join I was primarily interested in offering things. I have a multiple, you know, I'm in a multiple skills. So I start offering graphic design website design. I have a big truck. So I started offering. I also teach classes on bicycle repairs that repair Max Mac computers.

07:19 And and then I started a farm last year and I need made a lot of sense to open, you know our Farm Stand to time Bankers. So we start selling vegetables, which I think we were maybe the first member of time bank to actually sell product versus a a service.

07:42 And we had to make a few adjustments but for the most part it worked out really well because a farm was able to accumulate a fair amount of hours which then we pay or we don't pay her. I don't think that's the term but we exchanged was volunteers who want to work at the farm in exchange for Fort iMac hours and then we'll set farming turns and so we give them with a massage or you know, anyting that time bank offers that they may need when they're passing through through our environment. We use the the time banks that did the farm is accumulating for gifting a car.

08:28 A farming turns, you know, like what are you call them perks, that's nice. That's a really that's a really nice perk I think because interning isn't always a very lucrative thing to do, but you have other benefits and that's one of them, huh?

08:50 So yeah, my understanding is that the food exchange for time dollars was really really popular.

09:00 And so popular that you needed to adjust the way that you that you accepted the time dollars.

09:09 Yeah, we didn't know how it was going to work out but it was like instant. We do, you know, if we put the news that we were accepting time magdala place for at a farm stand and at the farmers market as well and and some days we would make you know, $100 in cash and $100 in Thai Mac. And with no real way to spend all this time being dollars on the farm. So we had to readjust which you know, we were told is pretty common with many popular, you know services on time bank, like healers and dentist and things like that. They have to scale down and you know, and it's that's the good thing with time bank. Also they give you a lot of flexibility as far as how you set your offering so you can you know

10:10 You can ask for gas money. If you for example in my case, I do know I help people move with my truck and so is there far away the give time to give you gas money? Sometimes they even tip you or you can ask, you know, a minimum amount of cash and then certain amount of hours for your your service and a lot of the healers that I now work with and use my timing dollars to get treatments from they ask for a certain amount of money in addition to time Bank hours.

10:50 Yeah, I've been really enthusiastic in telling other people that have mentioned that they need to make money that that you all have that the food from the gardens and that there are also healers. My doctor for example is in the time bank and does a certain number of a certain number of appointments each week doing that what kinds of things do you receive besides healing and gifting to your to your Farm staff?

11:28 You know, I've used my time Bank hours to actually pay my partner actually to do to paint a banner for the farmers market forest. And because it's you know, it's a pretty substantial amount of hours that she spends and because she's you know working for the farm and the farm has all these hours. So she got time Bank hours a big chunk that she's using intern to get also healing treatments from different providers on time bank. That's mostly used it for Chiropractic Rolfing craniosacral treatments massage.

12:19 I haven't needed a dentist yet.

12:24 Fortunately and

12:28 And I haven't needed it for a mechanic either because I found a neighbor who was willing to trade vegetables for working on my truck. That's wonderful. Now, what's your relationship with the people that you do exchanges with?

12:44 Sometimes there are strangers and all of them have become good friends. And I think that's one of the

12:53 Maybe the most important thing of time bank. It's this a community building phenomena that takes place what kind of obviously alternatively you know, or I'll turn these people trying to create a new culture. And so what time bank is bringing us together to exchange, you know services and butter the end product is that we make, you know, we build relationships and then the next thing you know that strengthen their local culture that we are we are apart of I agree. It's really one of the declared

13:40 Objectives of time banking isn't it is to build community.

13:49 And it's been pretty obvious and it's like a

13:53 You know something some people that we may never have encountered, you know at the farm stand at the farmers market now a part of our community because I'm back and I brought them know to our Circle.

14:09 Anna

14:11 And all the people I've met some time and car delightful really very kind. Very fair. Like they not do no counting the deer minutes now, there's a

14:25 This some kind of undescribable currency.

14:33 That me no floats around in the community. And you know, it's I would label it more Goodwill and you know kindness and

14:43 Done anything, you know, that's really substantial and I think that's now that's the that's the great thing about timing.

14:54 I agree with you. Have you gotten a lot of your friends or people that you that you interacted with before starting within the time bank? Have you gotten them to start to participate encourage people to do that? Because I think our situation in particular at the farm. It's it's a good damn means of exchanging energy with the people come and work in the garden, you know, people always get vegetables from the garden, but

15:31 You know, it's it's always hard to try to keep track of measure when somebody spend three hours in the garden.

15:39 You know how much vegetables should it take how much vegetables do they need? But if you know and we leave it up to them to record the hours so, you know, they can say well when I was my you know, my gift and 2 hours is time bank dollars. And so that way you know, there's a direct exchange for us because our time and always come for my vegetable sales and then we give them back to people will come work in the garden. So these are you know, this is recycle or you know full circle that takes place and it seems to work, you know, very well because we're never short of time Mike hours to to give to people will come to work with us seems like it feeds the community in

16:32 A very real way with food, but then also in in a larger way, but bringing people together in a different in with other community members.

16:45 And it is also be doing some things that we've noticed some people accumulate a lot of hours either. They're very popular providers or they work for the administration of time bang which you know pays them a certain amount of hours and they've been gifting large chunks of of hours to difference different organizations and ours included. So in turn we can use these hours to you know, that pay people no support us.

17:19 That's wonderful.

17:21 So what kinds of services would you really like to see in the time bank that don't seem to be accessible right now?

17:34 Well think you know a lot of people are limited by.

17:40 The standards that we operate within a culture like in a doctor making I don't mean to offend anybody but I don't know how much they make but say two hundred dollars an hour versus somebody will work son at minimum minimum wage making $10 an hour and yet within the the the format of time bank their hours of services are equally valued.

18:09 And we know we need to loosen up that you know that structure. So more energy flows into the system that the system not just of time back but the system of a culture so there's more equality and and so some of the services that people need a lot of course are you know Healthcare I would say, you know car repairs. That's a big expense in somebody's life and some alternative healing services and

18:48 And I think because time bank gives you you know, the freedom to pretty much set your own private areas, you know, if you as if they are a doctor you think for a visit you want to hour to time Bank hours and even though the visit is to know 35 minutes. I think he would free up the system people would be able to still come and use your service because to taimak hours if they have them gives them access to a physician, whereas they know if they don't have the cash at the can I have that access and I see that with some of the healers that you know why I currently get treatments from they ask for some cash and some time like ours but it still makes makes it very affordable for me to go to them in that that that that fashion if I had to pay the full rate I could

19:48 Get the treatments. So we think we need more of the

19:53 The higher-end services and find a way to just you know have them in the system and give people access to the services cuz I don't see the Canada full spectrum of of you know, if trades yet to know represented on on Time Bank.

20:18 So that's you know, that's my hope and you know, I think it's it's still new. So it will you know, I'm sure going that direction pretty soon. You don't see that as a problem with Physicians or people in doing

20:37 What in the monetary system are there paid more for them feeling like they're valued more than someone who cares for children or prepares food for other people?

20:55 Well, I kind of think in terms of the welfare of the the community.

21:04 And

21:07 You know, if a physician has some extra time even even if it's you know, if it gives five hours of his time or time a month.

21:17 4 time bank member it's benefiting, you know the community at large and I think some of the day was a dentist on time banking. Of course, she became instantly very popular in high demand and she had to scale down or the amount of people she could take each months. But even if you know, they take 1% of months, it's it's a huge service in out to somebody would otherwise would walk around with you know, a toothache or

21:52 Some of the egg I agree. I think that it's really nice to be able to have a certain amount of time to be able to offer for for such-and-such service. Do you offer anything that you don't offer in the monetary economy? You only offer in the time bank like moving people with my truck. I don't do that for a living. It's just I figure you know, people always have to move and it's pretty expensive to rent a truck and a helper.

22:30 And it's pretty easy for me to you know what to do.

22:37 The graphics but I also don't advertise anywhere else. It's just I don't have time to really take you know that many year how many clients but again just like a doc doctor dentist. It's expensive to to pay a graphic artist a web designer and you know, and I offer very humbled, you know services to get people started Monday need a business card or birth sure, you know what web presence and then so that way they can get their their foot out the door for the business and then you know, when they make more money they can hire somebody with a higher higher grades are high creative skills.

23:23 Terrific and about how many hours a month do you think that you put in personally towards time banking?

23:32 Was there a season 3 for me but?

23:37 During the summer we can easily log me know 20-25 hours of time bank a week. So in the winter, I spend them all.

23:58 But all I know as I mentioned this, you know

24:02 And I think that's what you know needs to be explained to people when they join I'm sure it is. I just don't go to their introduction. But the the price of joining time bank $25 a year is pretty low and but inviting people to trust that once they they get in into that routine of really kind of looking at what do I have to offer? You know, I may not have money but I

24:34 I know I'm not speaking for myself because I don't have much time. I don't spend much time idling but some people may not have money but they have a lot of time on their hands and I think it stimulates creativity in many ways because

24:48 You know if people can open their minds to all the skills that they have I know a lot of people are perfectly capable of providing elder care or childcare or helping move somebody you helping somebody organize their office or helping somebody clean up the house and and that's you know that I can do a lot of good in the community and allow these people to accumulate, you know to earn time Bank hours which in turn they can they can use for things they really need so I think it's for his people and myself included to look at all the things that I can offer for the welfare of my community, you know repairing Max, you know, when I hear people, you know that all my computer or my computer hates me or

25:38 Message to drop it off in my office and come back in the evening LDL. Perfect. I'll be your friend again, and you know, it takes me a few minutes because you know, I've been around these things for a long time to work on them and any free somebody to not waste their time minnow fighting their their machinery and get back into the business.

26:02 And

26:04 So and that aspect I think of creativity in our culture is really important. We need to really

26:12 You know disengage from this grid know this Matrix of money, which is very unhealthy and very limiting and really look at the wealth that we have and how can we just do no start really and letting it rip and really being generous with our

26:35 With our skills and resources because it comes back tenfold and I think time bank provides a

26:42 You know an official framework for that Goodwill currency to start circulating and that's so you know, it's kind of Maya.

26:54 My experience

26:57 Get it used to be that people lived in community and they were able to help one another with whatever needed doing. And as our communities have grown and we've moved away from our family members that

27:15 Even if they live an hour or two way, it's still it's still quite a bit compared to the way that people used to live.

27:27 So it's um

27:30 I think it's it's getting back to the way that we used to treat one another.

27:37 How many people have you seen that are either retired from their regular jobs or that are disabled or somehow within the monetary called? Sure, they're not participating as a learner anymore. How many people have you seen and participate in it in exchanges with?

28:04 Which seems like this more?

28:08 Middle-aged to older people in time bank, at least the people have been interacting with than younger folks and

28:18 But if I know if I follow you question properly, I think both you know this.

28:26 Elements of culture could greatly benefit from a from a an exchange lifetime bank because no the elderly the retired have a lot of skills and they don't need to make the money it's early but they can share their their experience. And then the younger people are operating in a market that doesn't have much jobs. But yet they have a lot of energy and they can definitely move me no Furnitures and you can definitely go clean out houses and

28:58 And and therefore just you don't really bring the to know the the flow to a new engine a new economic engine that provides to the people in that culture.

29:19 What's the youngest time bank member that you've met?

29:23 Good question. I would say.

29:30 Late 20's haven't met any younger one than that. A lot of our customers are probably in late 20s early 30s, but I've been to a couple of their meeting.

29:44 There was no be no early twenties there and I think they such a vital Vitality in that, you know segment of the population and the other ones were the pillars of the new culture, you know, I mean, that's what they're going to live in and and time bank gives them an opportunity to practice a new way of being which is also an old way of being as you mentioned earlier.

30:16 Till I noticed on the website that there is at least one child signed up as a Time Bank member.

30:26 But he lives in Los Alamos. So he's kind of hard for us to get to to our to our location here in Santa Fe how far away have been have the various members that you've met. How far away do they live?

30:45 You know, I'm not really aware of the geographical, you know, kind of distribution of the members have done a lot of time bank jobs in El Dorado. We also participate in the farmers market in El Dorado. So we sell to a lot of the the time Bankers would live in that Community, but I haven't done anything further than that. I also have a notice some of the people contacting me to do Graphics or web design where they're from America's The Exchange that we usually have is over the Internet. Oh, okay, and I do a lot of interaction with people personally because I help doing new member training.

31:33 I've seen that we have members in the Espanola area, which is about 30 miles away and up in Los Alamos, which is about 40 miles away Eldorado, which is 20 miles away and have you heard about any of the new time banks that have started up in the region. I haven't so Albuquerque. I believe just started last month.

32:03 And a friend of mine is helping to get new members, but they're really interested in coming and visiting.

32:14 What else? I don't know. What else do you want to share about the time bank?

32:21 I think you know food for people were listening and may not.

32:26 Quite know you know how the system works the the beauty is if you do a trade with a friend you are indebted to that particular friend and maybe that's friends skills and not really what you need. So it hinders you no more exchanges with time bank you exchange with the person and you collect your your dues Wanted 2 hours of whatever of time bank which in turn you can use with somebody else. So the the freedom of exchanges, you know, not limited and because I've done a lot of trades in the past and sometimes I have to you know, kind of

33:07 Forgive the trade because I don't have anything to you know to ask this person for an so it's you know, it's definitely a good system because

33:22 Again, it just it allows the energy to move really freely and I need to very easy system to use as well.

33:36 Does Santa Fe time bank is just here in our in our region, but there are time Banks all over the world.

33:48 That use the same this same computer program, which is called Community Weaver and are based upon the same loose structure of

34:01 Valuing time for time

34:05 And I believe that it's in 200 countries that sound for 2.

34:14 And I'm not sure how many American cities the largest one is in, New York City.

34:19 A New York City's time bank is really neat because it is supported by the mayor's office and they have five offices around the city and they have staff because it's linked in with the Commission on Aging and so they also have computers.

34:43 And their support in a different way than we do if they don't have to take an annual fee.

34:51 Because

34:53 Because it's supported by the city.

35:00 Yeah, I think it's just the more I learn about it the more amazing.

35:06 I find it to be.

35:08 I'm looking forward to seeing where it goes.

35:12 Yeah, I think it's just the beginning with just it's one of the tools that's allowing us to kind of.

35:19 Crack our minds open in and look beyond the limitations that we usually think upon us like, you know not having enough money and I think it's a beautiful thing and very grateful for the people were spending the time to set this this systems up and you know teach people and enroll people.

35:44 And you and I met through the activist Community even though we were both involved with time bank.

35:51 How do you see that portion of the community interfacing with the time banking philosophy?

36:09 Well, I'm a big supporter of you know, all the the movements that are going on with it. They are you know.

36:20 Dude

36:22 How people get Lander

36:24 Get food to be labeled with you know, when it has no GMOs or other undesirable products in it. And I think a lot of activists work really hard and and usually for nothing so

36:41 You know, they could definitely and a lot of them are very skilled at you no writing or computers. And so they could do no earn time Bank hours which they could use to for care for good food, like a farmer bicycle repairs a car repairs and things like that, you know, they usually a little bit out of the money system because they're so busy doing their activist work. I could definitely provide a good support for them. So they cared for for all the good work that they do.

37:12 I agree. I think that's some place that we can explore within our local time bank and within the national within the national framework as well.

37:24 Let me think. Is there anything I'm forgetting?

37:29 Now I ask you know, but on the note of activists like, you know, when people have a lot of hours again, if they'd is a cause that is really important to support they could find out who are the key people behind that cause and then give them and encourage them to do to join time bank and then give them a gift them some chunks of the hours.

37:54 So they can you know how these you know these hours to do, you know what you care for themselves and we'll feed themselves. So they can continue doing the work that they're doing without having to get a job and you know worrying about the you know, where the next to mine is going to come from I'm with you on that.

38:15 I've been working working to try to get some of my activist friends to participate and sometimes it seems hard to get them to think outside of the box on this issue, which is interesting because they generally do think outside of the box.

38:34 Well, since you can, you know pay your membership with time bank. That's another thing we can do is you know members will have extra hours is just you know pay for somebody's membership.

38:48 You know give them an opportunity to participate at no, no cost or no risk.

38:55 I sure do appreciate that. We got to have this time to sit here and and have some focused attention for one another.

39:05 Same as I said, it's a pleasure to do, you know praise time bank for all the hard work that they've done here in Santa Fe and you know,

39:14 So, thank you so much for

39:17 For being here and thank you discussing this topic.