Dennisse Reyes and Adam Pallant

00:02 My name is Adam Talent. I'm 56 years old today is July 18th, 2016 and I'm sitting with Denise in Providence Rhode Island. Denise is my work partner in principle. I'm her boss, but I think I've learned more from her.

00:24 I don't know exactly what to call you. You're certainly not just my employee by any means. My name is Denise Reyes. I am 41 years old please day is July 18th 2016. I'm from Providence, Rhode Island and my relationship to Adam is more than a boss. He's a friend.

00:48 Let me actually let me start off with the telling you why I asked you to do this may be in and then we can get into some of the questions that I have for you. There's actually a lot that I don't know about you and almost it's not important.

01:08 On the other hand, but I do know about you is that in my estimation? You're the person who has more interpersonal and therapeutic skill than any person I've ever met in my life.

01:21 And I don't even know what your educational background is that how long do we work together? And I do you actually do you remember how you came to be my coworker my partner?

01:43 I am a trained the one that was prior to me.

01:50 And then she you were looking for someone and I remember being in clinic crazy day. And Betsy was like you have to talk to Adam you're looking for someone as she described in the job description and I'm like me normal. You cannot go anywhere at all, right?

02:17 And then about a year later that the hospital started to do changes in our job descriptions and I was like, I've had it I don't like adults. I like the little people, you know, where you were cuz what was your job before you came to me? I'll just secretary in the midpiece clinic almost like a office manager cuz I was by myself. I'll be honest you were working for my wife position in that particular Clinic.

02:56 And she would come home and talk about how you were able to get things done that she couldn't get within a gazillion years of training and all this material that she had to work with she come home laughing and saying, you know, you would get on the phone and say honey. You need your Depo. You need your devil. Get on what are you doing? Can you actually be completely disarmed? I was a spokesperson cuz you were sort of in a secretarial roll.

03:31 In a clinic

03:34 And I told my wife.

03:36 That I was looking for somebody she was interested cuz she said to me.

03:42 The person you need is Denise, but you can't have her She's Mine.

03:52 What were you expecting? It'll also just for some clarity, you know, we should probably clarify that we work for a hospital that our job is to train and take care of everybody who's going to be a pediatrician who's learning how to do that for Brown University in the Brown University system. So we're in charge of selecting who gets to come to our program to learn to be a pediatrician and then we have to try to Shepherd them through 3 years of pretty intense. Sometimes heroin and anxiety-provoking training.

04:26 What were you thinking about when you were hearing about the position? I had no idea you have no idea. I had just been a med Peds and I always knew that I love helping people. I always knew that I loved helping the kids and I always would find an excuse to help the kid and it's not the parent. It's not the kids fault, you know the adult in their life. If I didn't care. I was just like it was time for me to move. Did you have any idea what you're walking into? Do you remember beginning? What cuz I can't remember you ever not being part of our family ever ate yet. I know that there was a time you started actually can't recreate that. Can you it was very

05:09 Is very quiet in the beginning. It wasn't a lot of high traffic in my office, but then I got to know that class in particular and they kept coming into my office and slowly but surely and then 13 years later, but you said come into the office as though it's like hey, just wanted to say hi.

05:35 The reason I want to interview you is I know that you have been the mother therapist.

05:45 Older sister you get to call it. Whatever you want my friends. You have been the go-to person for so many people who have struggled.

05:58 And they want more.

06:02 Of you and I can't remember the number of times right kind of suggested. Maybe you want to get some counseling. Maybe you want to have somebody help you work through the anxiety and I've come to learn now. People are struggling. All I have to say is him talk to Denise yet.

06:19 Do you remember the first time you actually started to have people open up to you? What what what happened and I'm really curious what happened in your office. I ask questions my kids tell me that I'm nosey, but I'm annoying but I try to tell them it's sincere genuine questions that I just like to know about the person but how can you know again, how can you ask the questions in a way that people say sure I'm going to tell you about what I'm terrified about him to tell you about my sexuality. I'm going to tell you about I'm not getting along with my wife and they tell you because I'm not afraid to ask it people people usually think about asking but they like a why don't you know, I don't know how they'll think of me or I don't know. What do you know, whatever the reason maybe I just ate I try to portray and I'm I don't I don't judge people. Everyone has a story and I just like to listen to this story.

07:19 That I think is what I learned from you and continue to try to learn from you. And I don't know if you can put it into words. But how do you convey that feeling that you can tell me almost anything and I won't judge you cuz that's distinct. We take care of 81 residents will not even get into the patient's yet. Hopefully we'll have time to get that 81 residents every year and they all know that you if they walk in there and say I need some love you will love them and they can tell you anything. How do you do that? I know you are but cuz we may be under some sort of recorded in here. We can't use names but you know for sure that other people can come and give you a hug and that won't do nothing and I don't know I the only way I can describe it is just by.

08:18 I really care.

08:21 I don't know how else to put it. Have. You always been like that. I think so.

08:26 When you were for your you're the oldest of your siblings.

08:32 Will you always the caregiver and the family. We think they all treat each other the same as that makes any difference like some people who meet my sister. They think she's the oldest but then they meet me in the middle. So she's the old and then they meet our brother like, all right, so he's there so you can't really tell that makes it not know but I know your sister some I met your brother don't know him well.

09:01 But I don't think that if I had to guess they all have this capacity to say I want to get to know you and I won't judge you and lay it on that's you. I think I probably get that from my mom cuz she can sit anywhere and she if you speak her language. She will talk to you like she's known you for years.

09:27 And it's just too bad I call you know, what are you doing here? Bubba Bubba Bubba, and she'll act like he's normal questions, like people that know each other ask

09:37 And she has this I don't know. I guess I think I get that from my mom was nice to delivery wrong on the quieter side.

09:48 Quieter people who didn't know him. He he he looks like this really mean guy, but he was like the biggest teddy bear and he will give you the shirt off his back never said no to me. Neither. I look up I have a suspicion. You never asked a lot of him that he would have to say no.

10:09 I'm going to ask you some questions. Now. I do know that that your life hasn't always been easy that you have faced some dramas and

10:24 You can decide what you may or may want to share as we're being recorded here.

10:30 How how did you maintain your positivity?

10:36 I have come to believe in everything happens for a reason I didn't always believe it about about 18 years ago. I lost my first pregnancy at 36 weeks. I got a pregnant a year again A year later and I lost that pregnancy at 36 weeks and nobody had like answers from you.

11:04 And it was very tough for me to keep that positive attitude. When all I wanted to become was a mother and I couldn't be a bum.

11:16 So I decided something to me just like lit and I would like I need to know why I need to know why this is happening to me because it's it had to happen to anybody in my family. So, you know, I went out and I spoke to a genetic counselor. I had my doctor transfer my records over to her. I met with her she gave me this diagnosis of antiphospholipid Syndrome from that. She was like, I think you need to see MFM maternal fetal medicine and then you should you should see this guy.

11:47 I spoke with other doctors that I know who kept asking you how are you doing? Oh, I know him you should go to him. I went to him and he was amazing for consultation and we had a plan and we stuck to that plan up until all right, so I was like I saw him every two weeks from the beginning from the moment. I found out I was pregnant every two weeks and then So the plan was to induce at 32 weeks. So 28 weeks comes and he's like, all right, this way is

12:19 All right, Miss right as you need to we need to talk about getting ready for 35 weeks and I'm at 35. You said 32. He's the one has to be in the oven so I can cook all the way and then I understand that but you said 32. He's like, how about 34 and I'm like 34 still closed to 36, but I'll take so we did the plan got induced and he'd even deliver.

12:52 He was like, okay don't have her between 6 and 11 because I'm going to be out of the hospital. But anytime after that year ago the time you came like at 6:30 and then the same thing for a dumb.

13:04 Which is amazing, but I'm going to punch you cuz you didn't actually answer the question which is how did you maintain your positivity through it all well during the pregnancy is freaking rap. Can't imagine. I didn't know you that I was a nervous wreck. Like my blood pressure was up to the Limit because it was just too I was just too nervous and dumb, but I think I think part of it was

13:33 My doctor he was he was my he called himself my cheerleader. He was awesome. I developed a really good relationship with him and then my sister my mom my dad like my family members, you know, they would always check on me.

13:52 And it's again. It was something that I really really wanted and I took care of myself not saying that I didn't take care of myself before but I just even more.

14:05 You know, what's interesting to me is that when you began to work with me, one of the things that you wanted to do, which is nowhere in your job description is you want an answer the phones what were then my patients and now are clearly our patients, but that was thought you were hired on to be a residency coordinator in at your job was to make sure all 81 residents were doing all that they needed to do to graduate and any yet. You said I really like talking to patients. I want to keep doing that. I have another question. But why?

14:44 I love them. I love I always think it's not the little kids fault. It's not the little person's fault. I always try if I was believe that if we can help them.

14:57 Help the parents get to where they're supposed to be then the kids will have a chance.

15:03 How would you describe our group of patients with special They if they need a little bit more time, but the time I mean not all the time, but I have a little bit more time where I can spend with them and I can talk to them and convince them of whatever it is that I need to get them to do.

15:25 You know, we had a patient this morning and again cuz we're even recorded up and I try to be very circumspect.

15:33 I have a hard time finding much room in my heart to care for her. You know, she's somebody who has several children every time she comes in. She just wants to share just how miserable her life is and how miserable her children are and how miserable they make her and they don't sleep and I have to get pills to make them behave.

15:58 And I struggle with trying to get a a wedge in with how to help her and her children make it through the day and when you come down just to say what up. How you doing? She says see you later. Love you.

16:17 How is that possible and I'm curious? How is it that you have somebody who I find kind of hard to love love and you?

16:31 I am going to stay the way they told me you keep it real Denise. I tell them what I think nobody else will tell them. What did you tell her that I had lots of things. I want to tell her, but I know that I'd lose my license. I don't have a license to lose yourself into really hot water. You know, what what could you have said to her that makes her so she calls you up once a week when I'm at least just to say appointment again. She loves you and wants you to be there for her.

17:15 And I can't I can't wrap my head around because I want her to like me if I do a lot of the things she wants me to leave you do this when we can do this do that.

17:34 And I love you for it because I can get through our most complicated patients cuz you're my front person. But you do it and you find it funny. I think we're amusing or entertaining but we're

17:49 I try to have them I try to make them feel comfortable and know that okay, I may not be in your shoes. But I know a little bit of what's going on and I get to know them out whenever she calls me. I'll be like so what did what happened last week. Did you do this? Did you do that? Like you said you were going to do and she was like you remember?

18:14 Again when I come too much detail

18:18 Can I ask do you like her?

18:25 All right, I mean granted there are some patients that I call on the weekend.

18:34 Why because I tried calling them when I was at work and I couldn't get through. So I block my cell my cell phone number and I'll call her from my cell phone when I'm sitting at home or whatever.

18:49 I also want to say again because you are the person who answered the phone. So my patients we have taken care of some teenagers whose parents have died or abandon them.

19:07 Who are struggling with wanting to stay alive vs wishing their lives were over?

19:16 And

19:18 Somehow they call you.

19:22 You can start off as Doctor pounds office.

19:26 And they say they need to see doctor pallet and you somehow gently say is everything okay and somehow that opened the floodgates to this woman on the phone with a then get to know and they want to talk to you again. I'm curious. How do you do that? And also, how do you not wear down?

19:48 Eyes tell my kids to treat people the way you want to be treated and I'm a firm believer in that I go by that every single day no matter what kind of mood I'm in.

20:01 It's easy to get dragged down with so much work or with whatever life is throwing at 2. But I honestly believe just treat people the way you want to be treated cuz they'll cross your path at one point or another and they will be like, oh, oh you helped me and I'm not doing it for that but they're like go remember that. I did something nice that I treated them. Okay as opposed to the total opposite.

20:28 It if you think of some of the teenagers that we have taken care of that we worried about when we let them go. Are they going to hurt themselves?

20:38 How

20:40 How do you keep the energy to say?

20:44 I want to do more as opposed to I think so many people say is this is sucking the soul out of me. I can't you know, how can you do this every day maybe because I would hope that someone would do the same for my kids.

21:00 I would hope that if you know my my son and my daughter were going through whatever and they can't come to me, but I and I tell them as much as I tell them to come to me for whatever reason that someone out there would be able to be like extend night out to them or that year, whatever it might be.

21:22 Please do you ever see them extend their hand out to other people in ways that you think are reflective of what you taught their if you have an example that you're really proud. I don't think so because when I tried not to see them out of work and they call them but I tried not to see them out of work we have until I have to be super cautious because I can't

21:52 In any way identify our patients, but you know we have

22:00 Woman with a kid who may be very sick who has two kids and she had those kids when she was a teenager. She was very young mom.

22:12 And she missed a lot of appointments with me and her kid may do well or may not we don't even know yet.

22:22 But we even call The Authority Sutter.

22:27 And yet still loves, you know, she loves you.

22:31 And you actually have taught her how to be kind as a mom pedicure for her child. I hope so you have no it's me to get you know, you're too modest a me then I understand you cuz that's who you are, but she really understands how not to drop the ball that would put this child at risk and that's mostly from you can do an awesome. But do you remember the conversations that you've had with her?

23:03 I remember those trying not to convince her not to have a baby while she was in high school.

23:10 How is it that you can tell somebody? What are you thinking about and then still has that baby and his baby may not survive. We don't know.

23:22 And she still loves you, you know because when you actually just take a look at the structure at lunch somebody comes up some older individual says why are you having unprotected sex? What are you thinking about getting one of us were just to say that almost in whatever way that person is gone. You know that let you know they done with you and she do I have Denise. What do you want now is go ahead tell me whatever you listen to you. How does that happen? He says you sound like my mother actually are one of her mother's

24:05 Is it weird to be the mother to so many people you are the mother to all our patients? You're the mother to all our young adult trainees.

24:14 I do not for age older sister in their lives is that exotic said it's emotionally draining where I just go home now that I have a nice commute. It's so nice to just be in my car and nothing absolutely nothing no phone no radio the kids don't want to talk to me cuz I'm asking them about sex so they don't talk to me. So absolutely nothing and I just recoup.

24:51 Can your well run dry?

24:54 I hope not.

24:56 I hope not. I was just telling someone that usually at 5 years. I'm like I need to do something else. I need to do something else, and it's been 13. So I'm so happy. I'm so happy. So happy that you are happy.

25:16 You have also seen.

25:21 People come out of medical school UC medical students

25:28 And then want to be doctors and not all of them get it right away.

25:34 How do you take these young doctors who are struggling?

25:40 And help them make the leap to become the professionals that need to be

25:48 I tell them that they are taken first while they're doing a lot of work in day in and day out.

25:56 But I also tell them they have to take the time.

26:00 Because they are taking care of someone's most precious gift your child and what if they had a child would they want them to treat them that way?

26:14 And that same stuff.

26:20 What do you wish that people were learning to become doctors? What do you wish that they would take with them either at our program, you know or in general cuz

26:34 I just told her I didn't I love to see you cry and she just looked at me. She was like what I love to see my reference cry because that just shows me they're still human people tend to forget that they're human.

26:51 I want them to keep crying.

26:56 Maybe not every day that will just make them a really like a better doctor.

27:05 When we when you do see one of our doctors in training who seems to be having trouble connecting with other people.

27:14 And it's something that you do so naturally.

27:18 Is that something that you can teach them that we can teach them something that I struggle with all along? You know the Met schools do a really really good job.

27:29 You really good job and making sure that you know your physiology and that you learn medication interactions. And you know, what blood tests to draw. I don't know that they do such a good job at teaching me how to be kind hit or how to relate to patients and listen well, and we do a pretty good job at selecting people in for program overall. They're really good but you know every now and again or maybe every year we have people who struggled do you think that there's a way of teaching them how to have more of a heart or not, but this time it's either there or it's not there. It's not I think that they have to be taught to become aware.

28:14 What do you mean by that?

28:17 So some people it just comes natural some people like they really want to know the person they really want to take care of the person other people. Just want to take off the box to okay, I did this. Okay, I did that. I still don't know. What's wrong. Okay, let's do this. Okay, let's do that. I still don't know what's wrong. They tend to forget why they became a doctor if I think I see it all the time when we do about it. We're in charge of that. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know what I do. Like I would have to see myself or see you to a pretty damn. Good job. I see I see what patients ever want to leave you here. They are 23 years old and I'm a you need to find another doctor.

29:05 I'll be honest. I don't think that I would have had the relationship with my patients as well as heading not had you as my partner which is why I said come here today cuz I do think that we both see.

29:18 That healing comes not only with just the knowledge of the medicine. You need a lot of love and you just you just burst with that in some way.

29:32 Watching Denise for the past 13 years.

29:35 Affected the way that you act as a doctor's I know that you say I couldn't do it without you. I couldn't do it if you weren't, you know is my first absolutely

29:46 I

29:48 I want to be sure you have the courage in the style to ask questions that are as intimate as you do without feeling embarrassed or without putting the person I'm talking to Under Pressure cuz somehow you just say are you?

30:07 Are you crazy or what are you thinking about or tell me? What do you like in in in in in a way that somehow is truly truly inviting and the two of us again when working with a particular medical student now who's struggling?

30:25 And you know it a couple of visits you had gotten to know so much about his life.

30:34 And so I said you got to know so much about this guy. He's really intriguing to get such an incredible background. And so we had a low when we were seeing patients and we had a patient didn't show so I spend some time trying to talk to him one-on-one and he said you mean Denise didn't tell you if you actually had

30:57 And I said, no. I know he actually use the phrase You know, Denise asked me everything wasn't quite as invasive is where you are.

31:08 That was the word that spontaneously came out of him. And I thought damn I'm not you know, Denise asked a question and it's like I'm all there and loving and I asked a question and I guess she's not as invasive as you are like and I was like again I wanted to I just spoke to him about this again. I'm like, you know, you can tell me anytime if I'm just being annoying or nosey cuz my kids say all the time to me because I know know know to do what you do this weekend. Why did you go there while who are you with a music? He's like smiling and I might well, who were you with it? Somehow you can do that in your loving and I can do that and I can look enough like I'm a little invasive.

32:03 You know where we're short a little time and I want to ask you a question that is swirling in my mind and I hope that it comes out possibly an inn in no way the front of but we have had a lot of issues that I have had to think a lot about race over the last couple of years for a whole variety of reasons. It's it's particularly impactful given everything that's going on in the country in the last several weeks and it's heartbreaking and it's something that I've really had to struggle with myself and I want to say race and ethnicity.

32:42 You're somebody who is very clear your Puerto Rican and yet, you know on some level it's sort of like Puerto Rican. I'm comfortable in my skin comfortable with you and your skin. Can you reflect a little for me on how you understand ethnicity and race in your role and what I can learn my mother.

33:10 Always said to us I don't care what color will always went to Public Schools.

33:17 My mother never brought the issues of race color language, whatever it may be. I never heard that at home and even when somebody asked her when I had been dating this black kid in school. She was like

33:35 I don't care what color he is. As long as he does not lay a hand on you. He treats you well, and he makes you happy we're good and I've done the same with my kids.

33:47 And I mean, I think it's working. How do you view how we understand race in the context of being Physicians training Physicians caring for patients. Most of our patients come from poor and minority backgrounds.

34:03 How do you understand race in what we do it's hard for you guys.

34:11 And I'm saying you guys.

34:14 Because I had this conversation with our student earlier today and every time we turn on the news, it's something so much like so horrible another, you know, another few cops got killed and I was just talking and saying that sometimes

34:33 Those people that are killing they need to be setting standards and proving that we're all the same instead of trying to hurt them for what they've done to their people. Send me some

34:52 Does I'm trying to think what am I supposed to do with this, I'm an older white doctor and most of my patients are younger minardi kids and I think we get along. Well, they love you. They keep coming back for more aware of it and wondering am I doing all that? I should and understanding how to support them and how I should be me at the same time. I think just the fact that sometimes it's funny because you'll you know, a lot of Spanish. I guess. I'm Puerto Rican, but you taught me a lot of Spanish and

35:35 You always surprise me when it be like, how do you what does this mean? And you liked all that means blah blah blah blah blah. And in that in like the Dominican say that a lot whether you know, the Guatemalan say that a lot and I'm like what the hell I think you know more than at that than me, believe it or not. I've learned that from you.

35:55 I'm pleased to hear that you've learned something for me cuz it's weird. Can I be honest?

36:02 I don't even know how far you went in your education. I went to all the high school and I was going to take a break from high school from college and I was like, nope. I got to continue because if not, then I'll never I went to CCRI just some basic classes there and then I went to I don't know if you remember Sawyer school now, it was like no Katharine Gibbs School.

36:34 I didn't even good at it. I did an internship at a place and they gave me a job. They gave me a job and then I ended up coming back to the hospital for some reason or the only reason I asked that is that you know, there's a part of me which feels

36:53 Almost ashamed that I don't know how much you earn and I don't want to know and I ain't going to tell you how much iron but I know it's a lot more than than you.

37:03 And yet I feel like you give as much and more than I do.

37:09 And simply and I don't even know what your educational background is and it doesn't even matter the fact that you have healed. So many people in right of time. You even took our most challenging faculty member that made every resin every student cry and you set him down in your office every week or so and you taught him to be kind they don't pay you. Enjoy should be nobody can nobody could seem to get this guy to understand his impact on other people and you set him down here often said sit down we got to do some talkin here and he came back week after week and it's you never been your daughter PhD in Psychology and you're better than every psychiatrist. I know so if anybody give this woman a race, but

38:00 Anyway, we need to wrap up but I do feel honored that.

38:07 You have taught me so much. I feel so lucky that we can work on so many challenging circumstances together, and I do sometimes get burned out. I'll be honest and you probably seen that in me, but the fact that together we can say look at all the hundreds of Pediatricians. We have shepherded through and all of these children who have suffered and we've made their day a little bit later. We did that together not physically together every moment, but between the two of us, we did a good job working with you, too. So thank you for letting me survive cuz it's not always easy to work that. Thank you.