Gina Moore and Chris Moore

00:02 I'm Gina Moore. I'm 36 years old. I today is August 25th 2018. We're in Kansas City, Missouri and I am here today with my husband Chris.

00:17 My name is Chris Moore. I am 36 years old. Today's date is August 25th 2018 in Kansas City, Missouri, and I'm here with my spouse.

00:32 So today we're going to go over just kind of what we've been through the last four or five years we've been trying to conceive and it's been quite a journey in a little hard on us we've had we've conceived naturally wants in that ended up in a miscarriage and we've since gone to a fertility doctor and we from that we've had another miscarriage and ectopic pregnancy and then we went through IVF and now we're having a baby in December on Crispus around Christmas my favorite holiday, so we're pretty excited about that, but I think the big

01:22 Aha moment for us is that although infertility can be really isolating and make you feel like you're helpless post the time. This is not something that you go through alone. Cuz there's a lot of people who are going through it till you just don't realize it so

01:45 So yeah, I think that this is an important topic to discuss cuz it's not talked about a lot.

01:54 Crank it. So Chris. I really wanted to get your take on it because you don't really hear the the spouses are Partners part of it. The one who's not going through all the treatments and stuff. So I just wanted to see how you felt through the whole process.

02:16 Beginning from you know, my miscarriages to where we're at now. Like how how did you feel about it? And what were your emotions going through it?

02:28 I think when we started.

02:32 Trying

02:34 Actively trying

02:36 4 years ago

02:39 I was just thinking well, it'll happen when it will happen.

02:43 Up until the first miscarriage

02:48 And at that point

02:52 You know, I I think we got a little talking to other people and we found out so, you know.

03:03 Grant, you know art my grandmother's had that issue had a miscarriage if you

03:15 Family also had histories of that and then as you talked cuz I'm not as open about it as you especially at that point you found out that, you know, a lot of people experience that and it's just not really talked about.

03:36 So I think that helped.

03:41 And after that point, we ain't struggled to even

03:47 Be happy after that once we started with the fertility treatments.

03:58 You know that really?

04:01 I don't know who I really am.

04:04 I'm headed home then again. We kind of didn't talk about it with anybody, but

04:13 We started to find out that more and more people we had friends that were going through the same thing or were further down the line from us. So that helped out. I think my my biggest feeling through the whole thing was how

04:30 Powerless I was you know, I can be there for you, but I couldn't really do more than that. So that was difficult, especially during the ectopic because you were so

04:43 Your bad red nun and in so much pain, you know, what you described is probably some of the worst thing you've ever been in that was very difficult very difficult time going through all that. I was worried about how you what you were feeling. Not that I know that you were mentally okay with it, but sometimes it's hard for me to get a sense of how you feel or what you're thinking because you're not really open about it in that regard. Like you're very you internalize a lot of serious stuff when it happens and so cuz I think you want to make me feel better about what's going on with concern.

05:38 Wasn't as concerned with the the pregnancies or

05:42 In at the loss of a child during miscarriage, I mean that affected me but I was more concerned about what you were going through, you know, emotional mental physical and seen on the back of my mind. I was always I've always been okay with you know adoption imbuing that so I knew that if our pregnancy attempts didn't work eventually we could adopt a child in the process was secondary to my concern for you and it was you that would actually cuz you saw

06:27 Basically everything I was going through like I was everywhere to in the whole process emotionally cuz we had a lot of highs we had I had a lot of Lowe's and so it was actually you who encouraged me to look into going to therapy, which I didn't really think I need it at the time but and going through it and I still go to therapy consistently. I'm lucky enough to work for a company where that's completely covered.

06:59 Where are you know?

07:02 I have so much control in our everyday lives like how we take care of the house or how we take care of Watson or dog or you know going down to packing your lunch or lay your clothes out. Like I have control over that but everything to do with fertility or trying to conceive I had absolutely no control of and so they surfaced helped me realize, you know, you just got to let go of that stuff and

07:33 Live your life and take it day-by-day and I think that was really important for us. Especially me because I don't think you really needed to be there for therapy because you're so

07:48 Yui, go with the flow. Anyway, your your easygoing and I'm more uptight than you are so special at the beginning because we didn't tell anybody about it. We didn't really start telling people until 3 years into the process. So we didn't because we didn't tell anybody and I was traveling all the time for work and have been traveling to the entire process. You know, I couldn't be there at least physically and we could talk be a phone but

08:36 And I'm not being there. I'm certainly worried and I think you know therapy would probably help us both me being on the road. Is it a lot more difficult?

08:50 I'm glad that you went and I think even as we talked to the fertility clinic nurses know they stated that.

09:02 They wish that they had an in-house counselor. They recommended almost. Yeah, because people don't understand that even especially in the face of our age or a little bit younger. Everybody's getting pregnant and that is just your happy for your friends and family getting pregnant, but it's also just kind of like a knife in the side or in the heart. Yeah, I think also with how long we've been together. We've been together 120 years altogether. This may people were constantly asking after we finally got married 11 years after surgery start date. He and I always made that joke as I told you I was like, oh and took years to get married and might take us all up in your system as a kid little did I

10:02 Do that. How literal that was but people were always asking us. Hey, you guys would be great parents, which I know. When are you going to have the kid in that was a question that came up all the time and I wish it wasn't a question that people would ask, but I know that they had a love they're asking or out of pure curiosity. I think it's just the expectation that it's the

10:34 The CORE family of traditional CORE family and you get married and then you have children and that's the expectation if you're outside of that. You know, why? Yeah. Yeah. Why are you having kids at Year's Tik Tok is very difficult.

11:05 Like I said, you always feel very happy, but there were times where I could see tears swelling up in your eyes when people would tell you that they're pregnant specially after the miscarriages.

11:18 That was a really trying time. We had a couple of friends who announced like I just day after a miscarriage. Yeah, I remember is a couple weeks after the ectopic and my friend was having her bridal shower and I was still having physical.

11:43 Physical pains and other things going on after the ectopic that I went to her bridal shower and it was Baby Talk the whole time like you're going to get married. Now, you're going to have a baby in like when are you going to have a baby in it turns to me? Oh, you've been married for 8 years. Why don't you have a baby? And I just wanted to just liked on my hands on the on the table and be like I am going through something right now. It's hard.

12:11 But yeah, it's like a lot of that is, you know, people are just curious and just want to know and don't want to know about infertility issues why it's we don't have the kids yet. If we start talking about that now they say oh well. Oh, that's off alarm.

12:37 Be praying for you thoughts and prayers.

12:46 It's varied.

12:48 Are they people just don't think again and that's fine. I think that's the norm. I guess. I think it's kind of knew something was up. So we didn't really say anything but then you have my parents and your parents who are just like why don't you have a kid yet? I am getting old. I can't take care of the baby or your mom dropping subtle hints about adoption once in awhile and

13:19 Bride that was hard because we see them every week and she just wanted to know she just wanted a grandkid that was local. You know after we told everybody in hindsight and probably could have told people before but again, it's just so taboo. And yeah you think people are going to judge you and honestly some people do

13:49 Which Way certainly

13:52 Experience that as well but yeah, it's something we're

13:58 If they

14:01 I think our close friends and family have all been great through its and knowing that now I think if we started telling them hey, we're having issues with years ago. Maybe we would have had less stress. I mean this happens to people and always Alan popular culture culture. At least I read people.com every week or every day, but you don't do but they're a lot more stories about this celebrity. You lost a baby are the celebrity, you know is going through infertility issues. So it's becoming more more of a of coming into Light Pop Culture early now, but I mean, it's not as

14:52 You know talked about still.

14:56 So when people still view it as what's wrong with you, what's wrong with you? Pour it in Jean and again at a kids like, you know stuff like that. It's just I don't want your pity. I just want your own understanding basically like this is an issue between me and my husband and I were working it out right now.

15:18 So I think

15:22 You know it it did take a toll on me, but I think being more open about it and talking about it has helped me kind of

15:31 Work through my issues and work through my anxiety of a lot of stuff.

15:36 So

15:43 So was there a time where we either of us really questioned our decision to go forward with IVF, or are you okay with it?

15:57 I mean, I would say that I'm always.

16:04 Took your opinion higher than hiding in this subject. That's the best way to put it. I mean, so if that's what you want to do almost support it and I mean we both made the decision that we want children, but beyond that we did have a couple of discussions a couple nights. I'm probably more than that where you know, I kept saying why why are you so intent on having a biological child while I can adopt and I'm not sure he ever had a good answer for that and I think a lot of that is projected.

16:49 You know from from my upbringing to an old traditional very traditional Asian Catholic Family wear a brooch the question to my mom instead will what if I can't have my own baby. What if we have to. And I remember my mom just looking at me and saying well you just keep trying for your own baby and see what happens in that kind of like

17:13 You know, it hit me really hard because I didn't know if my parents would love you know, a baby that wasn't from me and then I think you brought it into perspective. You said you won't is not their child. It's yours no matter what that's going to be our child and sell your parents could just live with the decision that we made Brian and I'm sure if they didn't

17:41 They had issues with it. They would certainly become fine with it at a later Point. Well, I mean I have an adopted kid in your family.

17:58 I think it's something where your parents would would eventually understand but it was certainly took a toll and yeah, maybe that was a part of your

18:11 Backgrounds. Yeah, but I didn't.

18:14 I don't have that problem. I mean from from me.

18:18 Adoption was while they are kids that need a family and from an environmental aspects. I've always thought that

18:33 You know it would be.

18:36 Kids need a home having another kid is just adding to consumption but adopting help with that.

18:51 I remember when I first went to the fertility clinic and they asked you know, what treatments are you willing to explore and I said, let's do the that's the safest and the cheapest thing by artificial insemination. And then if it gets to that point, I remember telling him I did not want to do IVF because if we were going to spend that much money I might as well do adoption because at least

19:25 There's a guarantee of a child at the end of it. And that was just my ignorant login. Yeah, there's not a guarantee in going through this process and seeing other friends going through adoption and IVF there. There isn't a guarantee that there's going to be a child at the end of anything really and I think we got really lucky in the timing of everything cuz if we had done this

19:51 10 years ago when we got married the first left for 8 years ago when we got married, I didn't have the insurance I had so we find out that we were infertile when we were 28 years old.

20:05 Be when it had the opportunities that we had now because I didn't have that job. And so when we first went to the fertility clinic, that was the year that my insurance at my new job said we're actually kinda cover fertility treatments just not the drugs. And so that's why we started with IUI and we were successful with our first try that you are that was a miscarriage and then we did a second and third try didn't work out fourth try was successful, but that was the ectopic so

20:46 I think we were teetering on IVF, but

20:54 I think it became a financial situation as well wear.

20:59 Because you ended up getting great insurance and that was the cheaper option, which is crazy that it's so expensive to adopt don't think we realize that either and then like the discrepancies between traditional adoption and adopting you know, I mix anything that's not an African-American mixed baby really disparage dust off because you know, why is it so hard to adopt just one child in America my mother explained. Well, yeah when we were doing research, there were there were two types of adoption with the agency that we looked at and one of them was traditional which is African-American or mixed African American babies, and then there are there was the other option which was non mix

22:00 With African-American so anything but black babies basically and so it was cheaper to adopt African American or African-American mixed then any other race of a child and that was like a 20,000 $15,000 difference between the two adoption.

22:26 American adoption is messed up and then it's pretty disgusting. Yeah, I don't understand why they're there should be a disparity between the the the price of the two. So yeah that kind of that kind of bummed his house out. I think reading over that and then your your mom suggested International Adoption, which I wasn't against but that's also a cost at you. You have to travel to the country. You're going to adopt from men like a minimum of 140 option.

23:11 And the cheapest we saw was 10,000 Alvin and that doesn't include, you know, your lawyer's fees to process all the paperwork for the official adoption. And on top of that you have to do, you know.

23:30 They didn't they do a welfare check and check your house before all that too. So there's a lot of added cost to adoption that we didn't realize we did. I think the calculus was different because with IVF it would have cost us out-of-pocket 30,000 before we got your insurance crack. Yeah, and that's something that we started saving for.

24:06 And I'm not sure we could have but we have to be honest because you know, we were still making car payments. We still have student loans those will never go away. Those will go to ask to her death. So I mean we had a lot of expenses and then dr. Gelb are fertility doctor status down. He said listen you have one you have enough left in your insurance to cover one router that IVF and the rumor is that they're going to cover drugs to this year, which is another $7,000 on top of what insurance is covering cuz they at that time they weren't covering the drugs and he said it sounds like we don't know what's wrong with you and the chances of what was the

25:06 Chances of me having another ectopic

25:10 It was

25:11 16%. We had I still had a chance of another ectopic once you have enough talk topic then your chances for a reoccurrence increase.

25:26 So that was not a chance that we wanted to take especially after all the pain that you went through and I was lucky because I didn't lose a fallopian tube what it got it is a risk. Yeah, so he basically said, you know, we don't know what your issue is. We know you can conceive but you know, if you go through IVF you get additional testing and

25:55 You know you would you would be dumb not to take this opportunity that's giving it to you. So we got the timing just of everything just worked out for us.

26:09 So we decided at the beginning to beginning at this year to start IVF treatments. So unfortunately every week every week and for 6 months so I missed.

26:26 There's a whole process that goes on with IVF. And obviously that wasn't there too so I can probably better at describing it basically.

26:39 Completely manipulate your body with his drugs that

26:45 You know what you start with.

26:49 Testosterone we did testosterone treatments which I had patches all over my body and I still have those marks from those patches cuz my body do non fluted. Yeah 6 months later. My body did not respond status testosterone. Well,

27:08 And so we started with testosterone to get my body ready and then he was

27:16 What a month of four shots every night.

27:21 In the belly in the belly button that was a whole process where you have to you get this giant box of medications, which we had sent to my parents house. Yeah. We live in Waldo deleted that one thousands of dollars of there was a lot of stuff going on with Amazon packages. Yeah would have any use for what was being sent to you. But if it's gone, it's gone. It was thousands of dollars of medical.

27:57 Drugs and syringes that were sent so we had it sent to my parents and I think when they opened it up put it in the fridge or the fridge. They were like, oh my God, they were not.

28:12 Prepared for what? They were like how many servings just say, so I think your mom is always adoption which she said that, you know with Grandpa passing this year. She she would help us with whatever was left over in which was a very nice offer. But you know, I think this was a decision that we both came to that. We you know, we were ready for I don't know if we were quite ready for what was going to happen, but we're ready to take on what was given to us basically so you have to prep for your egg retrieval.

29:03 Which you were there for were there for that you had to be there. But yeah. The shots every night and I and I prepped with my therapist on that seeing if you know, maybe we can lessen the

29:19 The loneliness of me doing the shots by Skyping you and I I think I got to a point where his like I'll do my shots and I'll just call you call you afterwards cuz there's not much you can do when you're watching me on a little screen trying to get myself shot giving me some words of encouragement, but those were hard just because if you didn't do it in the right place, you would just have bruising bruising. Yeah. Yeah.

29:53 So and then we did the egg retrieval. We had a good outcome and then we

30:03 We went on to like implantation and then those shots that I had to get myself into.

30:11 My dear you gave me the initial Shot Ya.

30:20 Mia sand husband

30:26 Are both nurses so they they really helped out I'd say your niece was in a girl in the whole process since I was traveling for work. She could come in.

30:39 Maybe not assist you. But at least I know the part when supported and answer any questions that you had which was grades and I did the second shot after a few and then you said no I'm going to take over those things are as like I cannot wait for somebody to give me a shot and then I just learned how to do it myself. And that was I mean giving myself shots was empowering to me cuz I was like, okay I can do if I could do this I could raise a kid if I can give myself shots every day for 2 months, then I couldn't

31:23 Looking in the mirror and squirting blood everywhere you were there when I did when I did have a Game of Thrones moment where there is blood everywhere, but

31:35 I'm okay.

31:45 And I was like, oh my gosh, you cleaned it up like a champ. So at least I know you can handle blood since when he comes in December, but not so much the party stuff.

32:03 Suppose I'll have to get used to it.

32:10 So yeah, I think after this long process, you know, we've first try IVF. We got really lucky again and we had a really healthy embryo. They said it was one of the healthiest embryos that they seen and

32:27 You know implantation day Britney was there you weren't there. But the IVF group that I had most of their husbands weren't there for implantation and they had successful pregnancies. So I think that's the key is not having sex with their baby.

32:45 So yeah, and then we're having a kid in December. So that's I mean, that's what we wanted. That's the outcome we wanted but it's it's it a whole do box of anxiety that's come along with it now, too.

33:03 So

33:05 But now you're home so I can lean on you two to be anxious about stuff with him. Now that you stopped traveling 100% of the time over at least done with the infertility through not as much because we have we have siblings on fries.

33:42 So yeah, it's pretty.

33:46 Pretty exciting. Yeah, it is exciting. I think our families are going to go overboard with you know, your mom's but yeah, I think I don't think this is affected her marriage at all either. I think it's it's brought us closer together and I think therapy has helped me with that. So if anybody who's going through this I would say find a good group of people that you can talk to about this openly and try to go to therapy if you if you think you need it cuz it is emotionally draining on you. I think that's important. I think I think we both said to this that

34:30 We're lucky. We're very lucky. We're apart of a group of people who have to go to a fertility clinic to have children, but

34:49 You know for all the things that happened just worked out it's still

34:56 You know, we we still had good.

35:00 Insurance had a great doctor family members, you know, we have some friends that we've kept quiet about how we conceived just because religious reasons. They don't agree with what we've done habit for the most Parts. I've now since become very open and if people ask I will tell them I don't have a problem, you know, if they have a problem that's that's there that's their issue. But I think it's more important now to talk about

35:39 Yeah and fertility issues.

35:42 They are affect a lot of people and most people won't talk about it. Don't talk about bad at all. And it maybe it's just a and idea that I know you can't conceive your own kid. What's like going back to what's wrong with you? You're not a real man, but I think you said that you met with an old classmate from grad school and you were open about your about us conceiving Walter through IVF.

36:18 And so you gave up his number and said that his wife could reach out to me with questions cuz I'm pretty open about it. But I think that's that's one thing those that men. Don't talk about that.

36:33 Yeah, I think that's probably a bigger issue in general, but

36:39 I think the most important advice that I can give people going through. This is just be open about him and hopefully that's not going to distance yourself from your family, but you will find a support group and you will find that people.

36:59 Are going through this that you have friends that are going through this lets you have had family that may have at least had miscarriages or other issues during during pregnancy and it's amazing how that that all comes out once you finally make the decision to

37:22 Talk. Yeah, yeah, definitely and then another thing I would say is don't read the volume hugs and don't read the comments on.

37:33 You know anything to do with its infertility stories online cuz that just drives you crazy. And that's one thing that you really did not like that I was doing is that I was just reading everything online and you're thinking that you're not a doctor those people aren't doctors like you actually have to go to an expert to see cuz everyone's different right and they still don't know. I mean, that's the crazy. Yeah, they don't know what they are like you guys were able to conceive. We just don't know why you weren't able to carry a pregnancy and it only took one embryo for us.

38:11 To be successful so I mean science lucky so

38:27 Maybe if you wanted to share with each other.

38:31 If your child hears this in 5 10 15

38:40 For Walter, I

38:44 I just don't want him to be an a-hole. I just want him to be a good person and know that you know, however capacity he came to fruition that we will love them unconditionally and that you know, we did go through a long process to have them. And so yeah, he wasn't wanted child. But just to let him know that you know.

39:10 Don't be an a hole in that Mom and Dad. Love you.

39:16 I think that's

39:19 In future if if Walter hears this and just know that

39:30 I'm out. We just know that we went through a lot and none of that is on you. So this is something we went through knowing what not Quant consequences, but what the outcomes would be.

39:53 I know you have.

39:56 Be worry-free. Yeah, and you're a scientific Miracle. That's probably my

40:07 But I would want him to know just now that.

40:16 I don't know.

40:18 Just be a kid.

40:21 You can don't don't worry about.

40:25 How you came into being know that you're there now? Yeah and

40:31 That we will love you and

40:39 You're no different than anybody else. Yeah, he came out of and I said this earlier when I there is a quote from Stanley Tucci and easy a cuz they couldn't have a second kid and he said like two people can love each other so much but so much but sometimes that's not enough because their insides don't like each other and I remember hearing that and be like, yeah, that's us like we we love each other. We have a great relationship, but it just didn't work out the way we thought it was and you know because of scientific help we have this this little this little dude coming in December on my favorite holiday. So you're going to have to Christmas in to see us get ready for that. But yeah, I think he should just know that he's going to be loved for the rest of his life.