Jacqueline Van Meter and Daniel Sanabria

00:04 Okay, my name is Jacqueline Van Meter. I'm 35 years old about to turn 36 terrifying. It's March 11th 2018. I'm here in Birmingham, Alabama 17 of my cousin Daddy.

00:19 My name is Daniel Sinatra. I am 38 years old. Today's date is March 11th, 2019. The location is Birmingham Alabama and my relationship to the partner is at I am her cousin.

00:35 Primo I'm excited. I'm so excited. Thank you for coming in today. Sure. This is just for fun. But I thought we would start with like early member is it you know that I'm really terrible like remembering things from childhood in your only a little bit better than I am. So what Memories do you have? Like, what is the most Vivid memories you have of us when we were little again. It doesn't have to be you and me believe what are your memories are like us hanging out together with the family as little kids like what comes to mind but I've been very fortunate than getting to that guy and I've realize how fortunate I have been. Do, you know like over the course of the years a family having the opportunity to come to the u.s. In apartment Early Childhood that has been fantastic. I loved Miami very fun city, but that you look at the great memories for us. Our family is originally from

01:35 Yeah, we should explain that so our mothers were sisters and they grew out like they were born and raised in Miami. That's that's why we hang out but being able to come to the US bases in particular Miami during Christmas while everybody back home and it was having it was being very cold. I would come to Miami and going to go to the beach since being able to open presents and like bright sunny day. Like, you know, I'm just being outdoors and dumped in the swimming pool with my cousins being like this that bring some fun memories everything about Grandma mean Granddaddy's house in Miami is fabulous. So I don't remember what year was built but like all of the furniture with the maze

02:35 You're like super 1960s. Like that's like the top quality of your Furnishings for the 60s or everything was like pink and turquoise. I just like super retro but really fabulous and it's big long Ranch since my memories I've ever liked to get from one end of the House of the other especially like a little kid you like going to be like the room with the shag carpet and then it widens into another room is like that's what I like. That's where my parents said with the rooms for the parents had a freak me out a little kid, you know, and then of course the whole house kind of opened up onto the back patio, which has a swimming pool which is covered right in like some mosquito netting or whatever and his plans and there was like that ham acting like a hammock swings and of course the bar area with green ever, you know, really got to enjoy but granddaddy was very particular that you know, every every one of his guess, you know, we kept

03:35 Top quality drink Scotch drinker, but I remember the parents do it is being around the bar area. And do you know a granddaddy was an incredible hosts, but over the years you don't like us much they were used to be now if Gathering house was feeling like a real in the over the years at one point. There was an inflection point in which Grand mommy decided that she had hosted enough parties and you know, she would do it for the family and very close friends but up, but not in the way that they used to know when they had that house pay it so you could see the evolution of that. Could you imagine

04:35 Do you have been. You know every single time that we go to Miami and you know, the very first spot in his going to go into it to 6:25. So that that's that's that's great. Memories Christmas look up those Christmases and the one that comes to mind for him. I don't remember this. But of course just to be clear we're we're cousins and we've got lots of presents on that side of the family. I'm the youngest of all of them and there's like seven or eight of us, right and you know, if you're making me cry 5 6 7 8 so so there's eight of us and I'm in the very youngest thing to keep in mind for all of these memories like my perspective on on all the things we did was like I was a little boy he wasn't big enough to do all this.

05:35 Things that everyone else was older than you were all boys. It was just you guys out of my sister and me were the only two girls and I felt like very must be outlier. There's just like taking it all in my dad. Remember the Christmas where he decided to give all of the kids like these like a ray gun things. He's like toy guns that you pull the trigger and they would slide app and it makes you look really annoying noises and it's like all the parents really late the night before like drinking Scotts probably in the next morning. Should I keep going to be today at Christmas? I mean, I remember being playing with guns. So, you know with lots of lighting. I mean like if it's Pacific could do that over the course of the year. Your dad has a shared with me that he has a hearing issue.

06:35 Did that with the way to a type of decision from the little I know from that diseases that loud noise has become extremely annoying. So his choice of either given us presents that kids like curmudgeonly, like get off my lawn vibe to come to family gatherings often asked for you know that give the if the youngest generation is coming or not before he makes the decision.

07:35 You know, they come start a family member coming you like to visit or something needs to pick it up in the airport that off your back. The last I have very persuasive individual. But okay. What was I going to ask you? What other memories do you have of us being little I'd hanging Christmas is a data Advantage because my Vivid

08:02 Collection of DNA that the best memory I have is that the Christmas tree used to be in the in the swimming pool patio area, which is outside of the house or the patio section of the house and its of all the presents that on Christmas day, you know, where lined up under the the the Christmas tree, but we would not open them in the Paddy of the casino like it's early morning and everything and being like everybody wants to be right next to the the kitchen. Are you going to like him too and that living room that was right next to it and we would be commanded, you know, the mission of getting all the presents and you know it when you see it, you know, like in a patio all the presents underneath the tree unit doesn't give you the idea of the dimensions, but when we would come it with all depressants and transporting them back into the room you would at you know, I remember, you know, those presents feeling the vibe Barber you could not

09:02 Barely see the floor how many no part of it is because of there was so many so many grandchildren, but do you know who decided we were very spoiled where celebrated in Miami and that in that unless that's some of my Fondest Memories Are evolving the fact that you know, we were going to Paradise place in the middle of Christmas in a well. I would go back to Spain if you look at my friends and I wish you would have them. Do, you know covered in snow yet?

09:41 I'll tell you what my impression of you were in again like my lens on this was like I was about to go for it every night. I was really shy as a little kid, you know, I'm my sister was 5 years older than me and sort of terrorize me and and then all of you guys to do boys, but I do remember you I would say for sure you and Freddy and this continues to this day some things never change their lives most mischievous in the family and I always thought of you as the mischief-maker you've always been like a Charming Charming boy. I just got out of trouble from time to time. Do you have a smile here and there doesn't hurt now definitely not like what I think back to my earliest memories of you if they're not that early actually, but I have some memories of us going on that trip.

10:41 Grandma made together which North Carolina and New York together. We went we went through that New York, Washington DC and Williamsburg right time, but we were going through a phase at that point. How old were we when we went on that any type of contact with family or anything like that. I was the source of great embarrassment for me. I've been peeing like a seven-year-old 75 year old lady taking care of, you know, some food too spoiled. Brat that I didn't want to just do basically anything but that

11:40 We would be named in Washington DC and you know the way that you mean navigate through the mall, there it is through those trolley buses in which you know you a bunch of terrorists and they're being a it said they did everybody wants to get in front of the line to get into those buses. So it was fairly aggressive me know and just trying to find the right spot. So so she would be no claim, you know for her before us to you know, this is fall apart right then. And of course, you know, we would do the complete opposite and I remember her finding like a perfect spot right there in front line and one of those truly bosses and we got in a lined up behind that we're unable to make it to that same bus, but that doesn't Raleigh buses take very close together. So we jumped in the second one going to leave but I mentioned to Grandma me. Hey at where are going to be in the second one in less than 2 minutes.

12:40 Behind without realizing that I may have been in a 14 or 15 at the time but I am like I was a little spoiled as well and you're like a little bit of a know-it-all and that Perhaps Perhaps the mummy in the process I had to deal with you as well know this annoyed by anything that I would do. We actually God in the in the second Charlie and momentum to go anywhere 2 minutes behind but of course, you know, like if she should put her in an adult cap on and then I decided to get out of the play The Charlie jump in the second one with us, and of course with the confederate general consequence of punishment that you know that came with it and Life Learning lesson.

13:40 I'm sure we did but I do with the grandchildren and like she did in multiple faces. I think that she took three of those traps but I and I are going to Grandma me as much as I can during that she was so she came to the US she was 14 years old and live a few years ago. I was definitely succeeded. Okay. Well, I will give you that I should know this but they have since you've given so many interviews. He know you probably know this fact, I'm suspecting 93 when she passed away.

14:40 So you with a 93 years old to 999 number 18. She passed right after Thanksgiving.

15:16 Remember that must have been early December but because I was I was in the garage I think that things happen for a particular reason my mother be like towards the end. You know, I have been into like really taken care of her being like you have been there taking care of her and the fact that my parents needed to go to Nicaragua to meet my soon-to-be in-laws. So, you know that Thanksgiving gag remind me Buena was spending some time and Jen's house in when we had when we returned from that trip Uncle Robert came to pick us up and you know him he made a comment to my mother was saying now I think I know what you've been doing for the last year, but now I really know what do you have been doing for the last year?

16:16 So give them a little bit further inside and not too long afterwards. She passed away. So, you know, they've a sort of like, you know have little little bit things left and that was one of them so I can look at it. I think that you know, I'm glad that that happened the way that it did. I think that my mother appreciates that as well be like everybody knows what everybody does for people but but I think that it was important for Uncle Robert to realize, you know at the level of intensity that the required to take care of a Grandmama if you know, you know, but you know, it's happened to multiple near people in their old age. That is nothing like I'm related to the do, you know just sometimes you know, they they they stay

17:13 Alive long enough to do this the last few missions in their life. And you know, I got a thing for you. Like I want to believe that that was one of those but nonetheless best life ever have and I think that it was a very poetic time and in my life because of course, I it's it's it's so late. I guess that's how you know how you know, I wouldn't change anything of my life. I'd probably let you know have come to the realization of things that I should have done sooner.

18:13 Memories good times man you like in general people like I don't mind, you know the caviar. Do you know Having learned things at a later stage that I needed to vote but has been nothing processed in the meantime indeed in the I think that applies to you living in Atlanta for you know, like a few months before you would go into Argentina. You know, I don't know I think the shape you I mean that I feel like that. Shaped so many things about my life and I was part of the reason I want to talk about this because I feel like that was that was a really important at least from my perspective in our relationship you and me, so I will say that in a grandma me had been ill for a little while and her

19:13 Come up and down if you would have good. They're not great. And I in the summer of 2012 quit my job in Washington DC and get a contact of your grandma. At first. I contacted your parents. I said listen, I know I need to step away from this job and I want to spend time with their mommy and and interview her and talk about her life. And your mom was like if you think you need to come down right now because we've had this conversation has been recorded before most I think that you know, you've recorded me in the past cuz I got terrible topic, please stop bringing up I come with a good things in the vet. So so I can't get whatever I can I live with your parents in grandma's house.

20:07 And you know did the project that we all know when a sender when all of my stuff got stolen in Argentina, but it was poetic for me because you know, I need a relative standards Mike relationship, It was great because you know, some people don't have any kind of relationship with my mother but there was always tension there because I was the daughter of her daughter who had passed away her beloved Toni who died and then I was like the one family member who like really flew the coop and didn't stay in the Atlanta area and I was constantly gone any chance. I had I moved me into 3 states further to the West, you know, and didn't contact her ever and she was really frustrated by my lack of presence in her life and really in the family and so having the opportunity to come back into just be with her day in and day out and help her out and ask her questions and curiosity about her life was really I think I think it mattered to her and it really matter to me and I agree.

21:07 It shaped the rest of your life for sure. I remember and during that time so Grand mommy had a life of zero issues health issues in told in the Christmas prior-year that she passed and it ended in the blasts of less than one year, Do you know what it just became issue after issue and that her health deteriorated the extremely fast, but I remember, you know, like a bad Christmas. I would notice that you know that it is the end could be coming at some point and then like I would start talking to every single cousin and I would say, you know, this is what I'm going to do this year. I'm going to start to increase

22:07 My visits to Atlanta but I but I suggest that and I would speak to Freddy constantly and I would ask Freddy, you know, perhaps you need to come visit in like as much as you can feel Like A Course in Miracles lesson Ecuador at the time, you know, it was hard to come but you know, I got things that he took me out and he he he tried to to come visit as much as possible and I think that you know, I had similar type of conversation with you. I'm going to be like I'm taking their credit for your comment that you like. I'm glad that you had the chance to spend the last few months over there be like in very close contact at some point and I was fortunate to have a wasn't married at the time. But give me like I was a long long time girlfriend very very supportive and we would come to Atlanta.

23:08 Every weekend or every other weekend if it's not every weekend and and she took it on then and she was very supportive of my need to and to go visit my parents and Grand Mommy and look at it during that time. So do that for me and I'm going to skip over this cuz I want to put this in the Library of Congress and I don't want to talk about the summer if she doesn't to but you I went to Madrid. I think that's it for this to inflection point in your life jokesters with one another from a distance. I think throughout throughout the years after that but for me, I feel like you and I like our relationship took came to another level the summer that I was living with your parents and you and your partner the time would come and visit a lot and I got to know her and I got to spend time with you and you and I just grateful to I don't even know that we had like critically deep conversations all the way.

24:08 Interview you about like your memories and God Mommy and all of that, but but I think just there was like an unspoken.

24:18 Accord or understanding that happens when you're all like present in bearing witness and lending a hand in like helping some of the last phases of their life. That's why I feel forever connected to your mother and I'm shaping me and really really impacting me. You know, your mother is like one of the dearest people in my heart and then I see you are being like along with your sister theme of the daughter said she never had that mean it like a particularly after your mother passed away in like she didn't know she was extremely close with her sister and then there's sort of like a mother figure in her in love with you guys then and I think that'd be like at 9:30. We're paid up to six months in Europe.

25:18 I'm feeling like it's going going for a summer to Spain prior to the to the time that you were going to college and let me know coming to Atlanta for a few months before you went to to Argentina if I can find a mastermind in the architect. But you know, I I I think the reason that you and I have the relationship that we do today is because of the summer before I went to Argentina and then when I pee in the sink, not that I came back in the aftermath of having been 7 hours to start studying quantitative modeling for finance, but I'm going to be a little bit analytical.

26:18 Noel and the end of the you like if I'm thinking, you know, this is just along those lines as it's really I think that both of us have in like this overwhelming need to impact other people's lives and along with the fact that we tend to be receptive of each other's perspective on Buena like any type of issues so, you know, you kept all those together I feel you know, perhaps I'm wrong and you know you say what is he doing now that I feel the that you are very receptive of, you know, my perspective on certain aspects of your life and that is very rewarding. You know, it says

27:18 I share with you certain things are going in my life in lucky. I completely value, you know your opinion and that's so because both of us, you know that have the skin and acne tell you haven't seen like I need to influence within like people somehow just sharing our perspectives and seen that they're well received by the other person. That's the easiest way to explain that. We are completely different completely different people but that, you know, we in those two points. Do you know we get you know, like gratification in the same way and say more about using the word influence here to influence other people, too.

28:08 Girls in my life, but do you like I think we'd like to people in my life that the inlay just walk into a room bar in Elijah's just meet a group of friends herb AR or peeing like a group of strangers and then and they the find a way of charming their way, you know again just just being able to connect in some of that you saw you walk into a room you screen people you understanding like how how you're going to be able to charge them and you know just have that natural ability. And I think I've mentioned to you like a former roommate of mine. The piano has been incredibly successful. She had a way of you know, just being able to you know, charm anybody in the room and I can say that this is going to go nuts recent treason over the past 10 years you like she's she's

29:08 Relationships

29:11 The document. Okay. Well, there you go. There you go relationships with that very extremely powerful and influential people. Did he have like the same ability to like to just me and I just say respect them with anybody background you can talk to the president or you can talk to me like a redneck if you like somebody somebody else of different background. I'm going to I'm going to call a spade a spade. I'm not going to have any type of filters today and I you know, I got what I can say. You know, what I can I what I will say is that you haven't liked that natural ability.

30:11 That's very impressive. You remember when I told you that time we went to Spain and we went out when we went out a lot of nice. It was a complete mess. But do you really want to talk about compliments volume was a sort of like Punk 13 year old kid who is mischievous in fine and whatever one of the crew of male cousins and then you know, I guess at this point. Yeah Grandma be decided she wanted to take me to Spain for that summer and I remember cuz I had no idea was going out all your friends if you'd like absolute like Mastermind manipulator Macho dudes. That was just an absolute minefield.

31:10 Still I remember the thing is I would just follow along like the sort of the thread of the evening and not really know like who knew who and I was just like their people moving around me. They're saying things I do understand what's going on. Nobody felt like I needed to teach me English to explain what was going on and I just remember we went from somebody's party to some other club and we're out on the town and somehow we ended up at an apartment with a bunch of people are hanging out and I was fairly certain that you didn't know anybody there like that. We know you met somebody who introduced to someone else. When should you send someone else at the club in the next thing we knew we were just like in a room like in somebody's apartment hanging out with new friends and I still couldn't I had no idea what's going on in understand a word. Anyone was saying that I just remember watching you like own the room and charm everybody knows no to this guy you like how are we even here and you were like the life of the party at able to just like, I don't know gather people around you and this way.

32:10 Here's going you didn't remember that neither. I feel like that's just really standard for you. But it was it was a very surreal experience to just like to not be caught up and I was like an observer through the whole thing cuz I couldn't get involved in what the heck is going on Thursday play Carlo. I'm paying attention to Danny and took watching you move like you. Yeah, I think you and I both really value like bringing energy to the room in like including everybody and making sure that like if we can make you know of everybody's having a good time like how do we bring people into the fold left on my watch? This is going to be a good time. Right? That's a characteristic that is like an 8 in the best, but I would say that it's also like just because it happens. Naturally. That's our default setting doesn't mean that it's not work and it is not tiring and if people don't engage with it that it doesn't really pisses off and I find great solace in my friendship with you because I know that you understand that and you and I can like really get around like how we can't escape our nature with a lot of effort into all those type of things.

33:10 Anything but I am I that people understand that when they said over the years. I've lowered my expectations from anybody know. So I really I really am very cool with the enough people. Not not not not realizing, you know, that's how much I do for everybody. But but just so you know that I've learned, you know, just to see it as icing on the cake for by the fault that I'm very selfish in my major in like I'm that I do owe everything because of the it does provide the gratification it to me but is a 1 people really understand. You know, what kind of been fortunate over the last few years to have a group of people that really value it. But it when people begin to like show that you know, they do understand being like that icing in the cake.

34:10 Yeah, that's that's shaping. You know, my personality over the years. We do share. I don't mind, you know, I talk a lot. But you know, like I'm very careful, you know, who do I share my deepest emotions and I don't mind being in that vulnerable spot with you because you know, I got another thing like your perspective is going to come from love as well it but I do value your opinion a lot because you know, we were very similar in that Matt for the right reasons. Is that what what do you think are the biggest differences between the two of us?

35:10 Accusatory, I actually think that you are much more guarded with your like before like your you know, you don't disclose like you're really emotional. Do you like a lot more than you know, people people have like a completely different impression you like of what I what I who I am and I guard that true impression very close at 7:00. If you ask I've been even people that live with me don't even like it takes them a while to really get to know me and that and I was just so you know, I don't let people into it like the victim found it now when people in a describe me. They they describe me in the in

36:11 Should a man be like I'm doing that site. Now this is over here to be the perception that I want to give and in that regard is a 11 to carefully orchestrated Dimension amazing that this was going to be a magic evolved and then what time you look in your eye to eye to you and you know, it just like it is going to come out but I know that you know me on the spot I eat Enterprise that that that the level of you know that I'm very social I know a lot of people and you like I interact with a lot of people and you know, I have been fortunate but do you like I have found a way to connect with a lot of people but but I mean like that very carefully so like who I let into the real eat.

37:08 Inner Circle so because the biggest hyena look at it hurt when I do get hurt a lot. So because of that reason you like a turd 222 you might be very careful in like who I let in

37:27 I didn't really have a minute left. That would let me wear lame question. But so we're now in mid-to-late 30s single AF. Where do you see our friendship being like 10 years from now when I made sure I pay my bills at the holes filled suspect. You don't like as much as I always think that you know, you're going to be the Eternal single but I suspect that you're going to find somebody you are going to find somebody and my entire life planned, you know, he is going to change and be altered. I think I have you proposed of your first project of storycorps up, you know, like I almost came down in one.

38:27 Nevada elected to the one minute left young live going to be very quickly. But because my life model is likely not going to incorporate children. Like I tend to be very analytical. What's the whole I'm enjoying this. I will enjoy it for the next 20 years. But what happens, you know when I retire you like when I get lonely and everything so you like it involves somebody that I can grow together and you like us do you like I was very nervous when I proposed to you but you'd like I was so overwhelmed with their reaction then you know, I'm looking forward to that than that. It will happen. That's so we will both live you can go live your hippie life and that you know, we will both live off of my 401k I give you that but you like I'm going to come get you at 65 mile of our friendship. I love you.